File + media server: proxmox or unraid reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-10 12:41 I have a PC I used to use as a file server and media server. I am going to try and set it up again but better. I was using Linux Mint before. I want to setup the Starr apps (Radarr, Sonarr, Prowlarr, etc). Is it more practical to use Proxmox or Unraid? I am also consider TrueNAS but I am RAM limited (8 GB). I should point out this is fairly old hardware (FX-6300). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gromhelmu · 2023-11-10 13:52 I haven't used Unraid. I am fan of Proxmox. It is on the one hand lightweight, as you can use unprivileged LXC+Docker, and on the other hand very flexible and powerful. It probably requires more manual work than Unraid though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-10 14:38 Do you have many issues with stuff like permissions? I have had some in the past when running FreeNAS and Linux distros as servers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-10 14:40 Is there a way to automate updates to everything? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clubsilencio2342 · 2023-11-10 15:19 Proxmox is great, but if your goal is just a NAS, then you should probably go with either Unraid or a NAS os. Unraid specifically makes it pretty easy to add drives if you run out of space, and I find that very attractive as somebody who also runs all the arr apps. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-10 15:37 From my understanding I can't use the drive adding feature if I want the file integrity and checksum features of BTRFS or ZFS when using Unraid. Is this correct or am I barking up the wrong tree? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- clubsilencio2342 · 2023-11-10 16:05 That is correct. You aren't able to add drives easily right now using ZFS (not sure about BTRFS) I believe you would have to use XFS to be able to take full advantage of Unraid's scalability. There is a plug- in to check file integrity, however it's not technically official. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SardonicLesbian27 · 2023-11-10 16:25 If you just want a basic NAS and don't plan on adding any extra features later on, you can't go wrong with TrueNAS, Unraid, or another NAS OS. I'm biased toward TrueNAS, but only because I'm a sucker for a good UI. TrueNAS Scale has official support for the Starr family of software, but I'm not sure about Unraid. If you end up going with another NAS OS, you'll need to do your own due diligence to ensure you can run Starr stuff on it. If you plan on adding anything extra at any point in the future, use Proxmox with a TrueNAS or Unraid VM. Proxmox itself uses very little system resources and is relatively easy to use. From there you can create add'l VMs to run your \*arr apps on. My motto is: "When in doubt, go with a hypervisor. I use Proxmox on my smaller quote-unquote 'servers' (repurposed desktops) and ESXI on my proper servers. (PowerEdge, Proliant, etc.)" Hope this helps ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-10 16:30 Yeah this kind of makes unraid pointless then. I believe BTRFS has fairly good tools for adding more drives and even changing RAID configuration without having to recreate the whole file system. Maybe I need rockstor? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rely5022 · 2023-11-10 16:40 Why not openmediavault? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-10 16:42 Can you run the starr apps on OMV? Does it have any virtualization or container support? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rely5022 · 2023-11-10 16:43 Yup. OMV supports docker compose where you can run the *are apps. They also have a KVM plugin if you want to spin up virtual machines for it instead. And as for parity you can setup mergefs + snapraid ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-10 16:49 I thought OMV had BTRFS? Why would I need snapraid if my fs has raid- like features built in? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tradinghumble · 2023-11-10 17:20 Yeah… unprivileged gets very complicated very fast, I spent days trying to figure out and finally went with privileged Turnkey this is a great video https://youtu.be/I7nfSCNKeck?si=2C9MFH1ifTkI3u9z works like a charm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JunglistFPV · 2023-11-10 20:12 Just want to point out, the Raidz expansion feature for zfs has been merged a few days ago, and should be available in 2.3 (about a year out) as far as we know now. Hopefully that will be there by the time I need it, as I went the ZFS route. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ursa_Solaris · 2023-11-10 20:46 If you're not planning on running VMs, then don't bother with Proxmox. No need to overcomplicate things. Use something tailored to purpose like Unraid or TrueNAS. I can't comment on those specifically because I just set mine up from scratch with Debian, but I've really been considering trying TrueNAS Scale. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-10 21:03 I want the capability to run VMs and containers if necessary. TrueNAS and UnRAID actually have this capability as well. It comes down mainly to LXC vs Docker, features, and management software. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FloHallo · 2023-11-10 22:00 Second on openmediavault! Love the debian underneath. I use portainer on it to manage docker containers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -my_dude · 2023-11-10 22:47 If you just want a NAS and a few services running in containers (i.e. Docker) then just get a NAS OS like Unraid or OpenMediaVault Proxmox is better for a general purpose server or homelab that you want to use as a playground or to perform multiple functions like running a NAS, Router, Containers, Remote Editing PC, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-11-11 00:02 Well, I wouldnt use unraid at all, its too restrictive. With 8gb of ram, i'd probably just throw ubuntu server onto it, and make a raid array, or zfs array up to you. Proxmox is good if you had more ram, makes making a backup of your system really really really easy. Essentially just make a save state prior to making any changes to your system, than revert back. Than just host your truenas for network attatched storage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-11 00:06 > Than just host your truenas for network attatched storage. You mean another box for storing backups of the media server? Yeah I don't have money or space for that. I find your perspective interesting though. It was running Linux Mint and I may just stay with this if things like Proxmox are outside of what the machine can handle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-11-11 00:13 you can run truenas in a vm as well. Or just host everything in ceph. There are a few options. My ultimate goal is to turn my currunt ubuntu server into a truenas server, for storage. Than get more proxmox servers (I have 1 currently). I'd like to have 2 proxmox, this way i can unplug the server without taking it down very easily. Than use 2 external 14tb hdd's, as my backups for truenas. Than run them and the truenas arrives as storage that all my proxmox vm's can use. This way, any device can go down, and i can always upgrade. It would have been best for me to start with a proxmox server and a VM. But like you, I started with a linux server baremetal. I just hope that I don't lose all my data between now and when i set up the backups. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-11 00:27 > But like you, I started with a linux server baremetal I ain't starting. I have been toying with this for a long time now. I have used TrueNAS back when it was FreeNAS. I didn't really have the hardware for it back then and I don't have the hardware for it now. I have even played with UnRAID briefly but didn't want to buy a licence. I must have been a teenager when I tried that one. I tried out of the box, proprietary NAS device made by Terramaster. It was pretty okay until it got hit with ransonwhere and nearly cost me uni work. I was not happy. As you can tell lots of stuff I tried didn't pan out. I even had an arch server setup and a debian one with ZFS at one point. Lots of this stuff was tried on weaker hardware than I have now (think Core 2 Quad and 4 GB RAM). Proxmox is one of the few I haven't tried. Bare metal Linux I did after trying lots of stuff and getting frustrated. Although I did actually run Docker and LXC on top of the Linux to play with. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-11 00:34 > File + media server: proxmox or unraid Comparing apples to oranges. Neither of those are media servers really. unRAID is mostly a NAS-like OS, with some extras. Compareable to TrueNAS. Proxmox is a Hypervisor OS (technically its Debian with some addons), and it would allow you to run things inside VMs or LXCs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-11 00:39 Is the turnkey version free? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-11 00:45 What do you recommend then? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-11 00:48 Neither, i am telling you those two dont make sense to be compared. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-11 00:49 I got that. What do you recommend if not these two is what I meant. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-11 00:57 *facepalm* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-11 01:03 My guy I knew they weren't really comparable when I posted the thing. You haven't actually told me anything I don't already know. They both could be used for what I am describing is the point. Also UnRAID isn't just a NAS OS with extras. Have you actually read any of the stuff they do with it? It billed as a single home server solution that handles storage, virtualization, media and file sharing all in one. You can even set up gaming VMs with GPU passthrough, and that's even a use case they talk about! You're trying to be condescending about stuff when you don't even have anything useful to say. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-11 01:23 If you knew they arent compareable then why do you ask to compare them in your post? ... And thanks, i know very well what unRAID actually is. I even used it myself instead of only reading what they say about it, gasp! > You're trying to be condescending about stuff when you don't even have anything useful to say. I would if your post would ask a proper question.And explained the difference between Proxmox and unRAID and why your comparison doesnt make sense. And you take that and react like a child. Maybe someone else will step down to your level, good luck! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- spoilt999 · 2023-11-11 03:51 Proxmox for lab, testing, development but Unraid for media server /homeserver ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gromhelmu · 2023-11-11 05:54 None. I Use ZFS as my underlying file systems and use user mappings, to bind-mount (read-only or writable) files into containers. This is the UID-Mapping I use in my (unprivileged) LXC, to mount data files, owned by samba_user (1005) on the host, to www-data (33) inside LXCs. ``` lxc.idmap: u 0 100000 33 lxc.idmap: g 0 100000 33 lxc.idmap: u 33 1005 1 lxc.idmap: g 33 1005 1 lxc.idmap: u 34 100034 65502 lxc.idmap: g 34 100034 65502 ``` ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gromhelmu · 2023-11-11 05:55 Proxmox only requires apt-updates once in a while. These can be automated. There is really very little administration necessary, if setup correctly. Just don't install too much stuff on the hypervisor itself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gromhelmu · 2023-11-11 05:57 I would suggest against Turnkey, as often they get deprecated and then you're stuck with an old version, or you don't now how to migrate, backup etc. - Docker and docker-compoye.sml is the better way, as it allows you to nest things (Proxmox -> LXC -> Docker) in a way that separates logic into its own independent compinents. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-11 06:11 Yeah I wasn't worried about that. I am worried about keeping all the containers and applications up to date. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ProbablePenguin · 2023-11-11 16:49 Proxmox. Supports ZFS, easy to use, pretty lightweight, can run anything you want in VMs or Containers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gromhelmu · 2023-11-11 19:05 This is why you use Docker + Watchtower - I setup my nextcloud to get automatic updates unless it is a major version shift (27->28), in which case I want to be present. Has worked for the last 5 years. I have about 30 containers and this needs about 15 Minutes/Month administration. Separation of concerns principle is your friend! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-11 20:26 Hmm I shall have to look into that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AreYouEvenReal2 · 2023-11-12 11:26 What LXC template would you use for the docker host? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tradinghumble · 2023-11-12 18:50 Free and good ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tradinghumble · 2023-11-12 18:50 I never had an issue and I think you’re comparing two different things. The Turnkey comes with the functionally I need. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gromhelmu · 2023-11-14 16:12 Debian or Ubuntu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gromhelmu · 2023-11-14 16:13 If the maintainer stops, how do you update e.g. Nextcloud automatically? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tradinghumble · 2023-11-16 16:08 Anything can stop - Turnkey has been around for a long long time ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gromhelmu · 2023-11-16 17:53 I don't mean Trunkey itself, I mean the individual Turnkey containers that have custim setups for software - if I use those, then I am bound to the one who set that container up. If the maintainer disappears, I need to understand the custom turnkey to keep getting updates (e.g. just thinking of software like Nextcloud, Gitlab etc.). Having an official `docker-compose.yml` makes this much easier, as most of these come from the software maintainers themselves, not a third-party guy.