Total noob reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- engineeringatitsbest · 2023-11-02 07:31 I am new to this and I am just staring to learn. What I have done already: proxmox with 2 VMs: Homeassistant and Ubuntu server. Ubuntu has Nextcloud and Docker. On Docker I would like to install radarr, donarr, lidarr and bazarr. The whole thing runs on an old i7 gen 4 laptop with 8GB RAM, 512 GB SSD and I hope to use an external 1TB hdd for the multimedia files. My question is this: is it feasible? Is it overkill? Should I do things differently? Thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-02 07:39 > My question is this: is it feasible? Is it overkill? Should I do things differently? Yes. No. If you want to. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SadGrimReaper · 2023-11-02 07:42 I would recommend running Nextcloud and Docker in 2 separate LXC and not VM. Uses less ressources. With your RAM dont try to make a ZFS, just use LVM. If you got some questions dm me. I also startet a few weeks ago. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ithilelda · 2023-11-02 07:42 it is a little bit of an overkill on the cpu side (but who doesn't like POWER), but underwhelming on the RAM side. You'll be better off with 16G of RAM using proxmox. Otherwise, the setup is perfect. my all-in-one server has an i5 and 16G RAM. I have an opnsense and a debian vm on it. Currently running *arrs, immich and home assistant on the debian vm. so far so good. not encountering any bottleneck yet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Perpetual_Nuisance · 2023-11-02 08:05 Nested virtualization (VM inside VM, Docker inside VM) is better to stay away from. Why did you install Proxmox and VMs (Home Assistant and Ubuntu Server)? What do you want to (or are you trying to) accomplish? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- engineeringatitsbest · 2023-11-02 08:40 Basically I want to see what the deal is with the arrs everyone is talking about. I plan on moving multimedia on the external drive. A cloud server would be cool to save photos, contacts, notes and use the Office feature with family. Haas - because I have smart devices, I plan on getting more and want to make the most of them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-02 08:41 > Nested virtualization (VM inside VM, Docker inside VM) is better to stay away from. Who said anything about VM in VM? I dont see that mentioned. And containers are not really virtualization, running Docker inside a VM is perfectly fine and often done. Running Docker in a Proxmox LXC on the other hand is not recommend, that is actual nesting, but with enough knowledge it can be made to work too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Perpetual_Nuisance · 2023-11-02 08:50 Sure it can, but this guy is just starting out. I would (advise to) keep things simple *at first*. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-02 08:52 Doesnt answer any of my questions but okay. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JanBurianKaczan · 2023-11-02 09:08 I'd just run baremetal Ubuntu with docker exclusively, since all of these services can run on containers. VMs on 8gigs of ram is a bad idea ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-02 09:13 I am running HA as container too, but it should be pointed out that its not identical to running the "HAAS OS". If OP wants or requires any of the things the "full" HA offers then the VM is basically required for that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- engineeringatitsbest · 2023-11-02 09:18 I needed HA OS in a VM for HACS. You are correct. HACS do not work in Docker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-02 09:22 CS is that Community Store for addons? I have that working in my HA Docker too, but i cant say much how reliable it is at all, i only enabled it a while ago and it appears to work, havent done much with it. Its my impression from the HA community that HA in Docker is not very reliable when it comes to updates and such, and its only ideal as a entry point to HA. Anyone who seriously relies on their smart home stuff should probably run the full OS either in a VM or on dedicated hardware (Raspi etc). Im no HA expert by far but thats just what ive been hearing over the years from various people who are deeper into that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xXfreshXx · 2023-11-02 10:00 HACS works in docker without problems ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xXfreshXx · 2023-11-02 10:02 Why is docker in lxc not recommended and what knowledge is useful to make it work? I have 10x docker in 10x lxc and it's easy to setup. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-02 10:04 Check the Proxmox documentation and forums, or simply /r/Proxmox ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Big-Finding2976 · 2023-11-02 10:14 From a quick Google, it seems that ZFS only needs a lot of RAM (like 1GB per TB of HDD) if you're using deduplication, and if you disable that it only needs 1GB total. I'm not sure if there's any reason to use ZFS on a self-hosted server though, with or without dedup, so maybe even 1GB is too much to waste on it if it's not providing any benefits over the alternatives. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- engineeringatitsbest · 2023-11-02 10:31 That is good news. A year ago addons wouldn't work in Dockered HA. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- janstadt · 2023-11-02 11:04 Addons are different than HACS. Addons in HASS are essentially docker containers spun up by the OS with a pretty UI in HA. HACS are basically scripts that can run in both docker and HASS OS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PaulEngineer-89 · 2023-11-02 11:11 On a single server and no dedup and not striping/modern RAID stuff ZFS is totally unnecessary. EXT4 is plenty fast and almost no overhead. Yes container != VM. A container sandboxes the code, file system, and networking with a consistent OS interface and services. Thus you can control security, file layouts, CPU allocation, whatever on the container. In this way Docker and Flatpak perform the same functions with slightly different uses. VM is as the name implies virtualizing technically at the hardware level but we do paravirtualization so performance doesn’t suck. Since you have 2 OS’s in memory (KVM is a further optimization) it takes up more RAM and either way far more of a footprint in resources compared to just a container. Practically the only serious advantage over a container is that the OS can share nothing…it can be Windows running on Linux unless for foreign OS or licensing reasons. For instance TrueNAS for whatever stupid reason wants to take over your hardware. HA is not an excuse…that is what Kubernetes or Docker Swarm does just fine. So what other reason would there be for using VMs to run Linux on Linux? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- engineeringatitsbest · 2023-11-02 11:14 Figured in order to get the whole package I should just go the VM route with HA OS. Seemed a more straight forward sollution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- flaming_m0e · 2023-11-02 12:45 This is absolutely not true. I have been running Home Assistant solely as a Docker container for over 7 years and have been running HACs since it came out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- flaming_m0e · 2023-11-02 12:46 > Its my impression from the HA community that HA in Docker is not very reliable when it comes to updates and such 7+ years on HA docker container...no issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- flaming_m0e · 2023-11-02 12:46 addons don't work, and addons have nothing to do with HACS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- flaming_m0e · 2023-11-02 12:47 > Nested virtualization (VM inside VM, Docker inside VM) WTF? Docker isn't a VM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- engineeringatitsbest · 2023-11-02 13:12 Please remember that I am new to all of this. Maybe it was a bug, maybe it was a setting... But the last time I had tried to reach the addons to install HACS in Docker, the store was not there. So I couldn't get terminal and HACS respectively. I did do my search on it and foud that docker is limiting certain features. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-02 13:16 Few years on mine in Docker, few hiccups here and there, but i have never bothered to run the full OS in VM or baremetal so i cant even tell if those issues would not happen otherwise. And i dont rely on my smart home stuff really so its just, eh whatever. But this thread actually got me the idea to use one of my spare Raspis to flash HA OS on it and just give it a try this weekend :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- flaming_m0e · 2023-11-02 13:22 > But the last time I had tried to reach the addons to install HACS in Docker You are conflating 2 completely different things. ADDONS are a function solely of the "supervised" HA aka, HAOS. They are just other docker containers that are "preconfigured" to connect into HA. You can do the same thing yourself. HACS absolutely, 100% does not rely on ADDONS. You can install it manually. >So I couldn't get terminal and HACS respectively. "Terminal" is an addon, but it's not needed when you have access to the HOST OS over SSH/console. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- engineeringatitsbest · 2023-11-02 13:29 So basically I am layering services unnecessarly? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- flaming_m0e · 2023-11-02 13:30 No. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- da_frakkinpope · 2023-11-02 14:02 It messes up. For me it would always break when I tried to move the LXC from one node to another. And it wouldn't always do it. So it made it hard to track down. But one node would go offline, high availability would move my container, then docker would break inside the LXC and I'd have to restore from backup. Since I switched to VM's for docker, this issue does not occure. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Perpetual_Nuisance · 2023-11-02 14:10 You didn't ask a question, smartass. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-02 14:32 > Who said anything about VM in VM? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xXfreshXx · 2023-11-02 14:46 OK. I have only one node. Only good experiences with docker inside lxc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Apocolyptic_Gopher · 2023-11-02 15:07 OP does. He says he's running Docker and Nextcloud INSIDE Ubuntu server INSIDE proxmox. That's nested VMs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-02 15:41 Oh you deleted your comment now? When 0+1=2 according to you? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Perpetual_Nuisance · 2023-11-02 22:00 Junior, don't start lying now... First, I didn't delete a thing; you must have a problem with your eye sight. Or with technology? Second, what you lie I said, i nowhere close to what I actually said. So take your lying ass and fuck off with the gaslighting, won't you? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-11-03 02:18 Sure sure, you didnt, of course not. So you didnt delete your comment. But you also say, you said something different in the comment that you didnt delete? Hmmm. Goodbye weirdo, blocked :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- da_frakkinpope · 2023-11-04 14:58 Yeah, with one node it's probably fine. I had to stop playing Russian Roulette everyone one of my nodes went down, tho. Will all my websites crash? How long until I get home and can restore the backup? Went VM for all my external websites. Never an issue since. Your milage may vary tho. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xXfreshXx · 2023-11-04 15:23 You're running Ubuntu server as a VM? Maybe I'll give it a try ---------------------------------------------------------------------- da_frakkinpope · 2023-11-05 03:30 Debian, but I used to use Ubuntu.