What can one use to have a temporary 15tb of cloud storage? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-10-31 15:22 Title basically. I have like 7tb of data on my current raid array, and in the future, I plan to wipe it and make it ZFS, with 3 additional 7tb drives. I'd like to not lose all the data. I'm sure I can't be the only one who has this issue. What do you guys use for temporary backup solution, while repurposing your HW. My current server runs Ubuntu server bare metal. I'm thinking of running Proxmox, than VM of TrueNAS, for ZFS, sharing the storage pool across, what would than be a Proxmox cluster of 2 machines (potentially a 3rd in the future). I think that this is probably the best way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- yowzadfish80 · 2023-10-31 15:28 Backblaze B2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ovizii · 2023-10-31 15:48 Check if an 18TB HD isn't cheaper than uploading/downloading. Keep in mind there is a higher risk associated with having all your data on a single HD though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- moldboy · 2023-10-31 16:02 When I did it I uploaded everything and copied it all (almost all) to local disks... then (for speed and download cost reasons) copied it all back from the local disk and ran a sync to catch the few files that changed or didn't fit on the disk. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tech2but1 · 2023-10-31 16:08 USB disk. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dazchad · 2023-10-31 16:13 Can't you setup a new array with your new 3 drives, copy the data over, then expand your array with your old drives? IIRC zfs added support for expanding pools last year or so? If you want to use a cloud provider, then your main problem will be uploading this much data and then downloading it back again, both price and time wise. An easier solution is in fact copying the data over to another storage. Maybe borrow some pendrives from friends/family? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marvbinks · 2023-10-31 16:25 Sorry to be this guy but do you not have a backup of your data? This would solve this and other potential future issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- limeice · 2023-10-31 16:26 Convince a friend that they need a storage solution, buy the drives for them, use them temporarily and make a friend really happy and slightly poorer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-10-31 16:27 Nope. I'm planning to actually backup my VMs and containers, and some of the media. But the 7tb data is mostly none-essential stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-10-31 16:28 >Can't you setup a new array with your new 3 drives, copy the data over, then expand your array with your old drives? IIRC zfs added support for expanding pools last year or so? O that's it. That's the solution right there lol. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-10-31 16:29 Bruh. Lmao. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mpopgun · 2023-10-31 16:31 I second Backblaze...don't even need B2...just the regular version. Might check out CEPH instead of ZFS. Proxmox makes it super simple....you can mount cephfs directly on Windows machines. Nice to have all your data directly accessible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marvbinks · 2023-10-31 16:32 Fair. My recommendation would be to put on a hdd for now then you can use that hdd for a cold backup later. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-10-31 16:38 Yea, I actually have a 4tb HDD from 2012, I'll probably use it as a VM, Docker, backup, and like some essential data. I think k the solution is actually pretty obvious, now that another commenter said it. Just build a ZFS pool with the 3 drives, migrate the data over. Than format the raid array, and add them to the ZFS pool, since ZFS is expandable. I just set up my Proxmox server last night on a NAB6 with 2tb nvme and 64gb of ram. It just lacks the data ports. So my n5105 board will work great for hosting the ZFS storage pool. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 12_nick_12 · 2023-10-31 17:15 I second this. Egress is now free up to 3x stored data. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AlternativeBasis · 2023-10-31 17:18 You can build makeshift raid array with (borrowed) external USB HDs and Mergerfs. Mount the individual hds (can be almost any format, I use ext4) in the original machine, 'fuse' then in one directory and xcopy the data. The disks can be mounted/merged in the new machine and again xcopy-ed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ironman730 · 2023-10-31 17:21 I can lend you space on my NAS if you want ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MrHolcombeXxX · 2023-10-31 17:24 If it must be cloud storage, I’d recommend something like a Hetzner storage box for a month, won’t break the bank and should be perfect for you. Alternatively if the plans suit you better, an AppBox from appbox.co would probably be a great option for this as you can install things like FTP Server, Rclone etc and they have massive storage plans at a great price! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- valdecircarvalho · 2023-10-31 17:47 If you pay, you can use as much as you want. But remember, you will pay the storage + the download of the data. If I was you, I would just buy new drivers, add them to your array, copy the data from the older drivers to the new drivers and finally remove the older drivers. What would I do with the older ones? Dump on the fire or keep just in case I could use it as a temp drive in the future. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- valdecircarvalho · 2023-10-31 17:48 Also, I'm pretty sure you don't have 15TB of that that you can't simply download again from the Internet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PatochiDesu · 2023-10-31 18:07 hyperscaler offer boxes with ssds to transfer a big amount of data into the cloud without moving it over the network. those are usually just pluged in and behave like a regular drive. you could check to order one and move your data on the box. afterwards build your desired setup and move the data from the box back. delete all data from the box and send it back. never gave it a try but its an idea :D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jaannnis · 2023-10-31 18:20 You can get a hetzner 20TB storage box for ~40$. Accessible over the internet via SMB. I get 1gig read/write, my internet doesn’t handle more so not really sure what’s the limits ---------------------------------------------------------------------- user3872465 · 2023-10-31 18:35 For a quick setup that is just a zfs send recive you can use [rsync.net](https://rsync.net). You have to book it for a month and it is not the cheapest but probably the easiest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FadingFaces · 2023-10-31 18:55 20 TB Hetzner StorageBox is ~50 bucks/month. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mnopw · 2023-10-31 19:03 Hetzner Storage Box with Borg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ejz9 · 2023-10-31 19:18 Backblaze? Presuming maybe you need to backup? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- death_hawk · 2023-10-31 19:32 > I second Backblaze...don't even need B2...just the regular version. Technically correct if you use Windows and retrieve within like 30 days. But depending on your connection, I feel like 30 days might be a bit tight. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- death_hawk · 2023-10-31 19:33 > If you pay, you can use as much as you want. But remember, you will pay the storage + the download of the data. Depends on the provider. AWS (and the like) do charge for ingress/egress/both, but there's plenty out there that don't. They may have other terms that are unfavorable though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mpopgun · 2023-10-31 19:36 Ahh yeah, I didn't think about that, good point!....I pay the extra $2 to get a full year of retention. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PaulEngineer-89 · 2023-10-31 20:00 Don’t know if this is still a thing but at one time you could simply “rent” an HDD, copy your data to it, then FedEx it back to avoid the bulk data transfer issue with some providers. But you are expanding storage…why not just use that? There are plenty of SATA boxes that connect via Ethernet or USB-C too which is inexpensive if you want to do it in house. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BackgroundAmoebaNine · 2023-10-31 20:01 I haven’t played much with ZFS so forgive me if this is an obvious question, but what do you mean by “fuse” in one directory? Or is this something specific to Mergerfs? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dirgosalga · 2023-10-31 20:03 No fees for traffic sounds perfect. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wastewater-IT · 2023-10-31 20:04 The 1-year version history is actually included now (as of a month or two ago)! https://help.backblaze.com/hc/en- us/articles/360035247494-Version-History-FAQ . See the section for 1-year version history, you have to enable the free 1-year history in the backup settings on the web portal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SillyLilBear · 2023-10-31 20:11 Restic to S3 compatible storage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- isThisRight-- · 2023-10-31 20:19 Purchase a larger external hard drive and host it via a PI or MicroPC? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AlternativeBasis · 2023-10-31 20:26 MergerFS is a 'directory level' file system, it simply distributes individual files across the various disks/directories that make it up. I jokely call this 'the poor man raid'. My use, the USB discs /media/user/disk8t /media/user/disk10t are 'merged' in /data/bkpmeta When I put a file in bkpmeta the file is written to one of the disks. No redundancy, load balance or file splited, other than alternate the disk to balance the remaining free space. The advantage is that the original system file is preserved without alteration, so it is possible to access (and copy or delete) a file without mounting the merge. It's a great convenience when doing rsync, as you can view both disks as a single directory. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SeriousPlankton2000 · 2023-10-31 20:49 Make a backup, set the new drives as a LVM, move over the files and grow the fs to use the emptied discs. You do have backup disks, don't you? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tamdelay · 2023-10-31 20:49 Burn 3,192 DVDs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nondv · 2023-10-31 21:12 offtopic, what data do you store? Photos? I was always curious about people who use a lot of storage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poliver1988 · 2023-10-31 21:16 Lucid link trial gives you 1PB ---------------------------------------------------------------------- puppetjazz · 2023-10-31 21:24 Mdadm can be set up with one drive. Then just add the second drive after data transfer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MyButtholeIsTight · 2023-10-31 21:24 Expanding an array does work but you get less usable space compared to starting a new array from scratch. The old data doesn't get restriped so you get a less efficient parity-to-data ratio, and this effect accumulates as you add more drives. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dazchad · 2023-10-31 21:31 Yes. I'd personally use temporary external storage. 7TB is not that difficult to pull together nowadays. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- espero · 2023-10-31 21:33 Disks are not expensive, just buy whatever size you need ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ikus060 · 2023-10-31 21:35 Not so fast ! Once you have create raidz, it's not possible to expand from 3 drives to 4 drives. What you can do is creating a degraded raidz with 4 drives by providing 3 drives and leave the fourth empty. You should google for the specific command. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RedditSlayer2020 · 2023-10-31 21:51 SMB over the Internet... yikes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nicman24 · 2023-10-31 21:53 raidz expansion is not on master branch yet (and not for some time) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jaannnis · 2023-10-31 21:53 Then use ftp/scp/webdav whatever ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nicman24 · 2023-10-31 21:54 do they support zfs send? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thecomputerguy7 · 2023-10-31 21:59 Question is, do they scan for file names/extensions, and how long would it take to upload and download everything again ---------------------------------------------------------------------- smittenss · 2023-10-31 22:16 If you are comfortable in answering which country/region are you from? I barely get speeds over 5-10mbps(1MB/s) with symmetrical gig personal connection from Asia/SEA region which I assume is due to poor routing and peering issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jaannnis · 2023-10-31 22:18 Yeah my isp has direct peering with them, I’m also about 100km away from their main dc (geographically) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-10-31 22:33 a 20TB backup drive might actually be the way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- duckseasonfire · 2023-10-31 23:00 Buy a single external, use it as a backup after migrating. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jeremydallen · 2023-10-31 23:10 Download backblaze trial. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BigLan2 · 2023-10-31 23:19 100mbit fully saturated will do around 1TB per day (give or take.) If you're on a typical American ISP with upload in the 10-50mbit range that's gonna take somewhere between a couple weeks to a couple months to send all 7TB. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- katrinatransfem · 2023-10-31 23:20 An 8TB or 10TB USB hard drive isn’t that expensive. Get a couple of them for temporary backup storage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- habanerotaco · 2023-10-31 23:26 Probably Linux isos ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BitsConspirator · 2023-10-31 23:50 This is probably ugly but could go the Microsoft Family 365. 5tb; 1Tb per account joined. The thing can be paid monthly and well. Sorry. I will now go wash the dishes and cry in the corner for such suggestion. 😂🙈 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DontBflat · 2023-10-31 23:51 Why no just setup 2 3 drive vdevs and combine them into a pool. Ie. One vdev, copy your data. Add the old drives as a second vdev and add it to the pool? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2thousandandpoint08 · 2023-10-31 23:56 OpenDrive has “unlimited” for about $10 a month. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comprehensive_Round · 2023-10-31 23:58 Create a degraded zfs raid setup with one missing drive. It will be fully functional with no redundancy. Copy the data from your old drive to this new degraded setup. Add the old drive in the place of the missing drive. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MegaPegasusReindeer · 2023-11-01 00:15 Digital Ocean has by the hour rates. You could create a droplet with attached volumes. I'm not sure what the limits are on volumes, but you can probably attach more than one. Then you can just delete it all when done. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- omnichad · 2023-11-01 00:16 And you may have to degrade your current array in the process. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ChicagoAdmin · 2023-11-01 01:47 A good 2nd option is Wasabi. Their prices compare quite well, and egress is free. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MotionAction · 2023-11-01 01:53 The Friend get to smile more with all that data to consume? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BloodBlight · 2023-11-01 01:58 They are going a free TB of extra storage until the end of the month. So I am seconding rsync.net/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thecomputerguy7 · 2023-11-01 02:06 I have gigabit fiber and manage 800ish megs pretty consistently and it would still take me 34 hours to get everything uploaded. Still better than weeks though ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cybasura · 2023-11-01 02:14 Wait, temporary? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-11-01 02:24 Yea, most of the data isn't critical. But. I think I'm just gonna get a 14tb backup external drive. Eventually I'll get 2. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poultryinmotion1 · 2023-11-01 03:04 Backblaze would be the cheapest option, but 15tb is going to take a while unless you have an incredible upload speed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CrazyShipTed · 2023-11-01 03:21 Have ordered AWS snowcone service to upload 10TB data to S3, then downloaded directly from S3 to other site of my company, it takes about 200 bucks. We use borg to backup data and compress at high level before copying to snowcone, the original data might be 30TB. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RobotUrinal · 2023-11-01 04:27 Tarsnap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- brando56894 · 2023-11-01 04:56 >I have like 7tb of data on my current raid array, and in the future, I plan to wipe it and make it ZFS, with 3 additional 7tb drives. I'd like to not lose all the data. I'm sure I can't be the only one who has this issue. What do you guys use for temporary backup solution, while repurposing your HW. Realize I have no way to backup 10s of TBs, cry, destroy my ZFS pool and start over. 90% of my stuff is media which I can easily reacquire from Usenet in about 1.5-2 weeks of 24/7 downloading. So, not really a hassle, it just takes forever. If you have good upload bandwidth (like if you're on fiber and have a 1 gig upload) IDriveE2.com has pretty reasonable pricing, it's object storage (think S3) not block storage (any normal filesystem) though, but if you're just using it for a backup that shouldn't matter. I apparently got in right before they doubled their prices and got 50 TB for a year for $500. They have "on demand pricing" which is more expensive than their yearly plans, but it's currently $4/TB/month so that would only cost you like $30...assuming you can upload all your data to their servers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- brando56894 · 2023-11-01 05:11 > If you want to use a cloud provider, then your main problem will be uploading this much data and then downloading it back again, both price and time wise. If you happen to have a symmetric gig pipe (or larger) that definitely helps :) I currently have 27 TBs in the cloud, for most of it, it was just easier to re-download it since the cloud VM had a 10 gig pipe compared to my gig down and 30 Mbps up (cries in Comcast...I moved and now I have access to AT&T fiber at up to 5 Gbps, its like $250/month though). I thnk I'm gonna move everything back locally, doing everything in the cloud was a temporary solution for when I lived with my parents for a few months. They weren't too happy about the electricity bill of my 15 HDD, 8 NVME drive, 2x10G nic, 128 GB ECC, 1KW PSU running a Threadripper 2970wx, liquid cooled of course ...and then having the AC running 24/7 to keep i cool. I had all of that crammed in a 4U server, which was pared down from my larger on which I was using at my other apartment. with could storage I find I'm able to download large files from the webUI, but I could attach the bucket and just get the data from here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chachu1 · 2023-11-01 06:26 Typically you are also limited by the other side. Although you could upload at 800mbit but serivce might impose speed limit to your uploads. I think Linus Tech tips has a video demonstrating this when they tried to upload their entire RAW video library to google drive with an unlimited storage account. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chachu1 · 2023-11-01 06:31 This is the way! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kring1 · 2023-11-01 07:06 * Buy 2 20 TB disks and put them in an old PC you have lying around. * Create a ZFS mirror on that PC * transfer the data to that PC * create your ZFS array in your server and transfer the data back * **use the PC with the 20 TB mirror as backup system** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- polohx · 2023-11-01 08:04 how is it possible to have 7TB of local data? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HumbertFG · 2023-11-01 08:25 Topically... There's one on NewEgg ( although I despise NewEgg for what they do / did to GamersNexus) - but there's one on there right now for like $280. Which is kinda super cheap. I might have actually purchased one in a rare moment where they weren't blocking my vpn >\_< ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LeeHide · 2023-11-01 09:08 rsync.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ruph06 · 2023-11-01 09:46 Make azure free acc, create VM and add 15tb, install self hosted cloud service, transfer your data there, done. VM should last about a month, but don't send sketchy files like porn or something. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KlausBertKlausewitz · 2023-11-01 09:57 Does it include E2E encryption or would I have to set it up myself? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KlausBertKlausewitz · 2023-11-01 10:01 I would get one (better two) external drives and put my stuff on there. Cheaper than most cloud storage providers and faster. (I have a ridiculous upload of 10 Mbit/s). Aaaand I don‘t have to bother about encryption as my data won’t leave my premises. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zeal514 · 2023-11-01 10:35 Media server. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- candle_in_a_circle · 2023-11-01 10:38 I don’t know what your 7TB is, but I know what my TBs of data are and my approach in this situation was to just nuke anything that was available from its original source, backup the few things that were orphaned to an external drive and pull everything down again onto the new array. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- qonTrixzz · 2023-11-01 11:54 I recently found that out the hard way. I now have the issue for this on Github bookmarked and reguarly check it, lol. https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/15022 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Archy54 · 2023-11-01 11:57 Photography RAWS mostly. Only about a tb. Then Home assistant and the proxmox VMS, family pics. One day security camera. Still need to pick a nas as mine is 3copies on a das. I'd like plex or jellyfin transcoding 4 bay. Or a low power 1ru. Don't think they exist. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nicman24 · 2023-11-01 12:34 yeah i run it for a while but i had to rebase the zfs repo to my kernel (do not remember details) it was quite stable tbh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traditional-Sector75 · 2023-11-01 12:39 It's black Friday this week, see what deals you can get on a 20TB usb drive and use that as temporary storage... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dazchad · 2023-11-01 15:37 Sadly we can't assume we will be able to saturate our internet uplink. I used Hetzner some years ago, and the route my ISP had to Hetzner in Germany was capping me at 3MB/s (and I couldn't consistently get that much). So even if you have 10Gbps on your home, it doesn't mean you will be able to transfer 10Gbps to whatever host you are using. Personally I prefer to have things locally and a backup offsite. More control over my data and how I access them. It would suck to try to stream something on rush hour and have ISP or whatever throttle you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thecomputerguy7 · 2023-11-01 16:01 I saw that, and I agree. I used to install internet back when gigabit first started to hit the public, and people would complain that Netflix wasn’t any faster. Do you think that Netflix would rather give you a single 1Gig stream, or give 100 people 10 megs each? Nobody could understand that capacity is finite. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- brando56894 · 2023-11-03 17:05 IDK where you are, but Hetzner has a bunch of DCs now. I'm in the East Coast US and my VM is hosted in their Ashburn, VA DC so the connection is quick. I think I'm gonna do a hybrid approach for now: since I already dropped $500 for a year of 50 TB of object storage in IDriveE2 and I pared my server's drives down even more, this time to a standard mid- tower ATX case with 4x 16 TB Seagate IronWolf drives. So that's about 40 TB or so worth of local storage. Since movies tend to need to be transcoded and scanned for thumbnail generation and all that stuff, it makes sense to have it locally and use the 48 cores of my Threadripper instead of a 8 or 16 virtual/dedicated cores of a VPS. Also I can stripe my NVME drives together to give me ridiculously fast storage instead of using whatever they offer and be bottlenecked. Also block storage is stupid expensive in the cloud. Since TV shows are usually in 1080p or sometimes 720p they usually don't require transcoding and if they do, it's relatively quick. They're also quick to unpack and post process, so they can be uploaded to the cloud quickly so all my TV shows are going to go in object storage. This way instead of trying to cram everything in about 40 TB, I can have about 90 TB :D with minimal power draw and heat production :D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NoLateArrivals · 2023-11-04 08:26 Have fun with first uploading and later downloading 15TB from any cloud service 😵‍💫 😂 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lil_Lentcli · 2023-11-04 11:05 Maybe you can look at Hetzner storage boxes and pick one for 1 month. They are rather cheap but no hourly facturation. I hope you have a really good fiber cause pushing 15TB on internet… ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lil_Lentcli · 2023-11-04 11:08 Or another idea is buying 2 big HDDs on Amazon. Do your stuff and then send them back for refund saying you no longer need them ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lil_Lentcli · 2023-11-04 13:42 Outgoing bandwith is also 0.01$/GB 😅 (When your exceed the limits)