How do you pick an ISP that won't pull the rug out from under you six months down the line? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TranscendentThots · 2023-10-16 04:22 With the ensh\*ttification of the internet only worsening even as Google is raked half-heartedly over the coals by the same politicians that killed Net Neutrality, the possibility looms of a future in which self-hosting is not only desirable, but downright necessary. But one important issue I don't see addressed in [the wiki](https://wiki.r-selfhosted.com/guides/software/web-hosting/how- to-host-websites/) is how to make sure your ISP plays nicely. Most parts of the country don't even have coverage by more than one ISP, let alone healthy marketplace competition. I sincerely believe that this will become the main stumbling block for most people in the not-too-distant future, as publicly-traded ISPs deteriorate in tandem with the platforms dependent on them, and end- users get caught in the middle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- revereddesecration · 2023-10-16 04:38 My ISP only routes encrypted packets across my VPN. As far as they are concerned, they are shipping random junk data around. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-10-16 04:49 Use VPN till they start blocking VPN, if that happens start building own networks. Sounds tinfoil hat like, but would be the truth. Not every country will force their ISP to become surveillance agencies, but some already are. I read more and more that people here can’t open port and such because their ISP prevents it. In an ideal world the ISP is only transmitting data, nothing else, that was the case the last 30 years, but things change thanks to certain people \*looking at you Klaus\*. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-10-16 05:40 > But one important issue I don't see addressed in the wiki is how to make sure your ISP plays nicely. How do you ensure any business plays nicely? You can't. That is, you vote with your wallet and hope for the best. You mention that some areas in your country are served by only one provider. The reason behind that is not some global conspiracy, but rather, the fact that network infrastructure is ex-pen-sive. Very much so. So much so, in fact, that early telcos were all government entities. If only one ISP has copper in your area, then there really isn't much you can do — except maybe hope for Starlink and OneWeb. Given those constraints, there is really not much you can do to ensure your ISP "plays nice". You can go into politics yourself and try to prevent politicians from being stupid; you can go into the ISP business and try to keep the business from doing anything stupid; or you can mitigate the stupid that can be done to you as much as possible. And this is where I barf some buzzwords: VPN, mesh network, shadowsocks, BGP peering communities, web3, TOR. Good luck. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JaJe92 · 2023-10-16 05:48 ISP should just act like a 'road' for traffic and that's is. Here where I live, we have 500mbps/1Gbps/10Gbps internet speed subscribption and cheap with both download/upload and no restriction on ports except for 25 to prevent spams. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-10-16 05:49 > Use VPN till they start blocking VPN, if that happens start building own networks. Shadowsocks is pretty great. I mean you can encapsulate traffic in ICMP pings! Who wouldn't want to do that! You can also try for peering agreements with other people. But at that point, you suddenly start opening yourself up to liability: how do you prove to the feds that some cheese pizza was only peered through your network rather than originating from you — the problem that people running TOR exit nodes tend to have. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- QF17 · 2023-10-16 06:03 > But one important issue I don't see addressed in the wiki is how to make sure your ISP plays nicely. Most parts of the country don't even have coverage by more than one ISP, let alone healthy marketplace competition. I don't think it's as much about your ISP playing nicely as it is the saturation if IPv4 allocation, user safety and a general reluctance to properly roll out IPv6. The reality of the world is that it's just not possible for everyone to have their own IPv4 address anymore, so you have to share with others - and that essentially kills the ability for you to host your own stuff (which probably impacts 0.01% of the population). Then you've got the security aspect, and the fact that if you allowed outbound SMTP on residential connections, malicious actors would find a way to exploit this and spam their products to the world. This is an actual risk, and ISP's are the last line of defense here. Again, people legitimately wanting to send outbound mail are probably in the 0.01%. Which leaves IPv6 and the solution to the worlds problems. But for whatever reason, there's a general reluctance to properly move over to IPv6 because it just seems too hard, or the ISP doesn't have the funds to perform network upgrades. But again, on a residential ISP, most people just want a working internet connection, only the 0.01% would care about IPv6. Even if ISP's were forced to be neutral carriers, it doesn't mitigate the issues like CG-NAT simply because there's not a market for it. As for me, I'm using a predominately business ISP who has a small side-gig selling residential services (presumably because they have unused capacity after 5pm and might as well attempt to utilise it). I've got a static IP address, but what I've done is spin up a $6 digital ocean droplet which acts as my broker/reverse proxy. I've got an IP-Sec setup between my router and the DO droplet and I've got Nginx installed on it. Not only does it act as my reverse proxy, but I've also used IPtables to forward traffic on a designated Wireguard port back to my local Wireguard instance. This means that if my static IP ever does change, I just update the VPN endpoint and life goes on. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- webbkorey · 2023-10-16 06:07 Comcast and CenturyLink have copper to my neighborhood and a local fiber company has a node 10 houses down. Comcast is my only option, as CenturyLink disappeared a couple years ago and the fiber company has no plans to terminate to my house, even if we pay for some of the install. (There's thirty or so of us that have offered 4-5k each to just have freaking symmetrical fiber instead of the 1600/40 that costs $280/mo. $60 symmetrical gig sounds so nice) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- adamshand · 2023-10-16 06:16 Look around for a small, local ISP. Especially if you live a bit out of town, there are often small wireless ISPs. It's no guarantee, but in general small businesses don't shit on their customers (though they are sometimes incompetent). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TranscendentThots · 2023-10-16 06:32 What is cheeze pizza slang for? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-10-16 07:14 Bad pictures. The kind you go to jail for having. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TranscendentThots · 2023-10-16 07:26 I get what you mean but that's dumb. Who calls it that? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-10-16 07:28 People who have to deal with overzealous censoring. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TranscendentThots · 2023-10-16 07:29 Wouldn't the FBI or whoever just start screening for the phrase "cheese pizza?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NikStalwart · 2023-10-16 07:31 Someone should, probably, but YouTube hasn't caught up yet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BillyBawbJimbo · 2023-10-16 15:02 Pay for business internet. Live with slower speed. Get better service with fewer restrictions. In our area, we get 250 down 30 up for $100 a month for business internet. We also get same day service for just about any issue called in before noon. We had to get a new line from the pole (change from hung line to buried because of tree canopy), and they had it done in less than 2 weeks, including boring under 2 driveways. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZAFJB · 2023-10-16 17:10 You vastly overestimate the likelihood of such an event. And it is easy enough to make a contingency plan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kmisterk · 2023-10-16 18:50 ## Post Removed Hey, TranscendentThots! Thanks for your submission on selfhosted. Your post has been removed due to a violation of the purpose of the subreddit: **Self Hosting** ## Not Self-Hosted When it comes to posts regarding applications in this subreddit, they must feature a self-hosted tool, or a tool that *can be* self-hosted, or some kind of related information, help request, or otherwise related to a tool that is something that one can self-host. If you believe this post *is in fact* relevant to /r/selfhosted, feel free to [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to= /r/selfhosted&subject=Removed For Not Being Self- Hosted&message=[Removed Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/178xnyn/-/\)) with your concerns.