A Call for Developers | Jellyfin Blog reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- emprahsFury · 2023-10-01 21:44 If they want to advertise on Reddit, let them reopen their sub. That was the bed they made, let them sleep in it. The jellyfin forum is this that way -> https://forum.jellyfin.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ASouthernBoy · 2023-10-01 21:50 exactly, what a stupid decision it was ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tgp1994 · 2023-10-01 21:55 What's up with their subreddit? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Firestarter321 · 2023-10-01 22:20 Exactly ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AssistBorn4589 · 2023-10-01 22:29 That's all nice and undestanable, but I've got up to /contribute page. If you want random people to contribute to your project, stop waving your CoC into their faces. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-01 22:46 You'll get downvoted for that but I'd do exactly the same. I have no intention of offending or insulting anybody. Irrespective of their gender, race or sexuality. But if telling me to do what any decent human would do is first thing I encounter its a warning that the project is a hive of drama. I have far more useful things to do with my development time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zomphie_ · 2023-10-01 22:47 I love the logo, but is this a DAM system? I'm confused about what this is. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- throwawayacc201711 · 2023-10-01 22:57 On the contribute page this is the only thing they say: > Before contributing, please read over our Community Standards and Contributing Guide. What about that is waving in your face? Love the dog whistle though as if there’s something even contentious in their CoC. It’s literally don’t be a piece of shit. Please show what’s so outrageous about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- flossraptor · 2023-10-01 23:05 I have been struggling with crazy judder for months. Now that there is no community, Jellyfin is unusable. (The forums are pretty much worthless. I got one response from someone who didn't read my post.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Itzz-Donkey · 2023-10-01 23:10 Yeah we all know the protest didn't work and reddit won't change their mind so why not open it up again ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DandaIf · 2023-10-01 23:18 Genitals? What? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- throwawayacc201711 · 2023-10-01 23:20 Whats so problematic about this? > Respect others and remember the Human. Do exhibit kindness and empathy to others and make them feel welcome. Do not antagonize, flame, insult, demean, abuse, or harass others. Do not use slurs or sexualized language. Do not dox or otherwise expose others' private information, even if it is shared publicly elsewhere. Always act in good faith and give other contributors the benefit of the doubt. Try to read positivity rather than negativity into communications where at all possible. Your post says more about you than you think especially given what the CoC says. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BackgroundAmoebaNine · 2023-10-01 23:28 What are these comments? No way there are real people who are angry about not being able to use slurs lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Apprentice57 · 2023-10-01 23:29 I *would* agree... but this was (seemingly) not posted by a member of the development team, and the blog post is directed at the internet more generally. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mississippede · 2023-10-01 23:31 The number of downvotes here, yikes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wubrgess · 2023-10-01 23:32 > stop waving your CoC into their faces. phrasing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bromeister · 2023-10-01 23:33 The sub was terrible, just people asking the same basic questions over and over and over. Nothing of value was lost and I doubt they've missed out on a single contributing developers since the move. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EndlessHiway · 2023-10-01 23:36 They opened a new forum so don't need Reddit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EndlessHiway · 2023-10-01 23:37 A lot like this sub. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bromeister · 2023-10-01 23:39 This sub is useful for discovery and relevant news. I find new projects here regularly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-01 23:43 For anyone wondering, Jellyfin lost a lot of goodwill with the community, especially reddit, when they nuked their own subreddit and told everyone to go to the Jellyfin forums instead. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- elroypaisley · 2023-10-01 23:46 Jellyfin lost a lot of good will by not caving into Reddit? Remember when you were so mad at Reddit? Remember? I guess not. Weird that for refusing to suck up to the Reddit overlord monetization policy Jellyfin somehow "lost good will". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dsphar · 2023-10-01 23:46 Is the API refactor complete? I started to dabble, but was put off because most the API was going to change. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-01 23:49 I'm just telling you what happened and why people are reacting the way they are. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- elroypaisley · 2023-10-01 23:52 I'll be angry right here, thanks though. You're not telling me what happened, you're posting your opinion as fact. I know it's reddit but even here there's a difference. People who care about FOSS (which, FFS, should be a hallmark of people in this sub) should respect the hell out of JF closing their sub. Jump on their matrix (or discord) or their forums and you can get all the guidance, help, and community you could possibly want. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bromeister · 2023-10-01 23:53 FOSS projects are consistently struggling with this, Jellyfin is not alone. Maintaining a community on a platform antithetical to your ideals is choice that some projects choose not to make. Another example of this is choosing to host your discussion platform on IRC/matrix vs discord. Discord communities will have significantly higher reach but at what cost? Ownership and control are core values of self-hosting and FOSS in general. There is nothing stopping anyone from creating a community jellyfin subreddit and moderating it themselves. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IM_OK_AMA · 2023-10-01 23:53 Bunch of people who never would've contributed anything of value anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PropaneMilo · 2023-10-01 23:55 Cool. I like Jellyfin but it lacks a lot of features that would make it a viable alternative to Plex. Hopefully Jellyfin can grow to be big and strong and crush Plex, who will have to improve and crush Jellyfin, who will… you get the idea. Something something lift all ships. Kodi could also use a kick up the bum, the last time I tried them I did not have a good time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AmateursPls · 2023-10-01 23:57 But you're talking out your arse. You don't speak for "the community" or even "a lot of people". I'd argue in fact that almost none of what you said is actually rooted in fact. People have their reasons for not liking/using Jellyfin, many of which are touched on in the blog post, but those reasons have nothing to do with them choosing to use their own forums. In fact the utter hilarity of you coming into selfhosted and claiming Jellyfin "lost goodwill" for choosing to selfhost is awesome lmao ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 00:01 There's nothing 'problematic' about it. It shouldn't need to exist, I don't need to be given a set of rules about how to behave. If I did behave in a way the project doesn't like they can just get rid of me. What the comment say about me then? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nitrag · 2023-10-02 00:07 Ugh C# though ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 00:08 CoC refer to sexism, racisim, transphobia and the rest. I'm saying that I don't care what a gender person contributing is. I don't want to know and there's no reason I should. Submitting code does not require you to mention your gender. The only way I would find out is if they made a point of telling me. My own github name is entirely neutral, it does not imply gender, race or religion. That very deliberately preserves my privacy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AmateursPls · 2023-10-02 00:11 The fact you apparently get so triggered by the mere idea of a completely innocuous and sensible community code of conduct to the point you start jabbering on about your genitals, like you're turning this into some conversation of gender, when it has nothing to do with the conversation at hand anyway tells me you're the exact sort of person that makes the code of conduct necessary in the first place lmao ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 00:14 >Maintaining a community on a platform that does not support your ideals is choice that some projects choose not to make. Sure. I'm sure they must have a reason to dislike community discussion on reddit. That doesn't mean every other person must agree with them, right? >Ownership and control are core values of self-hosting and FOSS in general No. Using your power as an authority to shut down discussion is the total fucking opposite of self-hosting and FOSS in general. The control should be with the many, not with the few. >Discord communities will have significantly higher reach but at what cost? No cost. Literally no cost. Other than effort. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sshwifty · 2023-10-02 00:15 If I had more time I absolutely would, I love Jellyfin. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AmateursPls · 2023-10-02 00:15 This is the important question. This along with the supposed entire database rewrite coming soon™ leaves the project in a very awkward place when it comes to wanting to start contributing, especially in the form of plugins. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 5erif · 2023-10-02 00:17 What Plex features are missing in Jellyfin? Genuine question. Maybe one of those can be an opportunity for me to contribute. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AngelGrade · 2023-10-02 00:17 Screw them, they closed the community on reddit and they cared nothing about the users, forcing them to use other means that not all of us use ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 00:17 What part of my comment was opinion? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- throwawayacc201711 · 2023-10-02 00:17 Wow you must be a hermit then! My apologies. It’s totally not like humanity has based itself around this little thing called “society” that literally dictates how people should and shouldn’t behave with these little things called laws or through morality compasses like Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. None of those things explicitly say how people should or shouldn’t behave like a good person cuz it’s so self evident, right? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 00:19 I'm not religious and github repos are not society. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dsphar · 2023-10-02 00:20 Search results show items from libraries the user doesn't have access to. That would be a nice fix. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AmateursPls · 2023-10-02 00:22 You mean the community that was overwhelmingly all "yeah fuck reddit fuckspez rabblerabblerabble" at the time? I actually appreciate Jellyfin so much for being one of the only communities in the entirety of reddit that actually stuck to their guns and did what they said they would. We could actually be humouring the idea of a new decentralized platform if all the others hadn't been such cowards scared of losing their precious mod statuses and caved in. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tinykingdoms · 2023-10-02 00:24 tbf, them closing the subreddit is inline with their message of _anti commercialized_ so it makes sense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 5erif · 2023-10-02 00:24 As a result of the protests, reddit increased their free dev API access to 100 requests per second, and they also granted full access to accessibility-focused third-party apps. Many critical articles were written about reddit, which affects their valuation. FOSS federated alternatives gained a lot of publicity. A small but not insignificant portion of the community migrated away. The quality of content decreased, decreasing engagement and valuation. Reddit didn't completely reverse their decision, but they learned they cannot completely bowl over the community from which reddit's value springs without consequences. There were many smaller victories. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- elroypaisley · 2023-10-02 00:25 Are you serious? Wow, the fact that you think your statement was fact is terrifying. Here's how facts work. Facts require proof and data. The earth is over 70% covered by water. That's a fact. It's measurable, it's provable. Jellyfin lost a lot of good will by closing their sub. Is an opinion. What's a lot of good will? What's good will? Did you survey and interview all reddit users and come up with data based on your findings (spoiler alert, no, you just ran off your mouth and called it fact...cause, you know, it's the internet). What you said is quite literally the opposite of fact. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- elroypaisley · 2023-10-02 00:26 You don't know how to use a web browser? Cause all your need to join their matrix server or forum is a web browser. But I guess not everyone uses a browser. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 00:27 > you're the exact sort of person that makes the code of conduct necessary in the first place lmao Is that so, lmao. Well, you're perception is really on the ball then, lmao. Clearly, I don't agree with your point of view, so I'm an asshole. There's no other possible explanation, lmao. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AmateursPls · 2023-10-02 00:27 >nuked their own subreddit Objectively false. They stopped using it but did not *nuke* it. >Jellyfin lost a lot of goodwill with the community Opinion stated as fact. >Rubs a lot of people the wrong way Opinion stated as fact. >refusing to foster a community outside of the small one they have on their forums. Github? Matrix? Discord? Telegram? C'mon bruv, stop trolling. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 00:28 >Jellyfin lost a lot of good will by closing their sub. Is an opinion No it's not. Hell, were you even on the forums or surrounding subs at the time? It was absolutely chaos. People were pissed are still pissed about it. Forums were in damage control for weeks because of upset people where and there are still posts complaining about it that get deleted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 5erif · 2023-10-02 00:28 Good, thanks. Since I'll be a new contributor, it's probably better if I set smaller fixes like this as first goals to establish cred before attempting a big Pull Request. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AmateursPls · 2023-10-02 00:29 I never said or even implied you're an asshole, don't put words in my mouth. Although I'll point out, you're doing a good job of reinforcing what I did actually say lmao ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 00:31 > you're the exact sort of person that makes the code of conduct necessary ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AmateursPls · 2023-10-02 00:33 So in your mind codes of conduct exist solely for assholes? You are definitely a piece of work, I'll give ya that. Let's be real though, you were never going to contribute anything meaningful to Jellyfin, your excuse of it being because of a code of conduct is nonsense. I'm done with ya. Have a good one, chap. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HyphenSam · 2023-10-02 00:35 > I don't need to be given a set of rules about how to behave. But other people do, which is why it exists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- throwawayacc201711 · 2023-10-02 00:35 Name one organization, system, company, group, etc that doesn’t have rules you need to obey or get kicked out. This is just virtue signaling bullshit. Stop pretending this is somehow a special situation. You’re right: assholes don’t care what you tell them. Irony is completely not lost I hope. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- idiotsguide · 2023-10-02 00:35 Hilariously enough this person is throwing a fit about the Jellyfin community guidelines, as if they're unprecedented and preposterous, on REDDIT! I'm assuming they haven't noticed that Reddit has similar guidelines, in some cases with nearly identical wording, otherwise they'd be ranting about this somewhere else that doesn't have them, which is a pretty rare thing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- elroypaisley · 2023-10-02 00:36 Dude, you really don't understand the difference between a fact and a point of view. I've been on reddit for over a decade and was part of the JF sub as long as it existed. The only people bent about the closing of the sub were the people too lazy to join one other options for a JF community. The self-hosted community - a community supposedly dedicated to FOSS and not bowing to corporate ownership - should be cheering JF for being among the very few groups to actually walk away in the face of Reddits behavior. Meanwhile, you need to go learn the difference between "I saw a bunch of posts on reddit and decided this is what happened" and a fact. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- idontmeanmaybe · 2023-10-02 00:36 As someone who contributes to OSS, I look at pull requests. Jellyfin is your typical OSS project that says it wants contributors, but then is not supportive of them when they do contribute. To put my money where my mouth is: I have contributed a few PRs to Jellyfin. I currently have two that have been sitting there for months. I’m not going to bother donating my time to projects that do that unless it’s something I really need implemented. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- idiotsguide · 2023-10-02 00:36 Nailed it! Seems like the guidelines are already working! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 00:39 >Objectively false. They stopped using it but did not nuke it. They didn't just "stop using it". They stopped *anyone* from using it. It's gone. Instead of just stepping away, they killed the entire thing and are leaving it dead. Would have been a totally different story if they just disassociated themselves from the subreddit and let community members manage it instead or something. And are you *really* trying to say that the regular community of /r/jellyfin enjoyed having their community killed? Really? I just said this in another comment but that's absolutely not the case. Their forums were absolutely blasted by upset ex-community members to the point that it was hardly usable for a while afterwards. >Github? Matrix? Discord? Telegram? All of these combined have a fraction of the discussion that the subreddit had prior to being shut down. Even their forums aren't even close ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 00:42 >The only people bent about the closing of the sub were the people too lazy to join one other options for a JF community. How do you know this? Did you do surveys from every single member of the jellyfin subreddit? This is just opinion >should be cheering JF for being among the very few groups to actually walk away in the face of Reddits behavior. You wouldn't be using reddit right now if you believe it were evil. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 00:43 Software repositories have plenty of rules that relate to software development. I'm not complaining about them. I'm not suggesting that people should be allowed to act badly. If I didn't care about the subject I wouldn't have posted. We wouldn't be holding a conversation about it. However, why should I care what *you* tell me? Or any CoC? And why don't you care what *I'm* telling you? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HyphenSam · 2023-10-02 00:43 Contributing is not just writing code and you aren't 'required' to mention your gender at all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 00:51 > you aren't 'required' to mention your gender I'd suggest that people should be removed from a project for doing so. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 00:54 Well done with *not being a hive of drama*. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Temporary_Affect · 2023-10-02 00:55 Were your PRs reviewed? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Legitimate_Farm_3095 · 2023-10-02 01:00 sub has gone downhill since the "protest" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Legitimate_Farm_3095 · 2023-10-02 01:03 ridiculous take. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Legitimate_Farm_3095 · 2023-10-02 01:07 > forcing them to use other means that not all of us use and if you just use reddit or discord you are forcing people to use something not all of us use, or want to use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thornbill · 2023-10-02 01:08 This is another unfortunate consequence of not having a lot of regular contributors at the moment. For most projects we have 1-2 people total regularly checking issues, reviewing PRs, and contributing code. Frequently you end up having to choose between working on code changes you want to make and reviews/issue maintenance. I’m sure you can imagine how challenging this is. We are definitely interested if anyone has feedback on how we can improve our review process. We hope that one of the outcomes of this outreach is more people joining the team and helping with reviews. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-10-02 01:08 *You dont plan to murder anyone. So why should the law against murder even exist? Lets get rid of it, its obviously useless!* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- denim_skirt · 2023-10-02 01:08 You've just got to run Kodi on a raspberry pi so you're always impressed that it runs as well as it does ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-10-02 01:09 Can we remove you from Reddit instead? Or atleast from this sub? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PropaneMilo · 2023-10-02 01:10 Remote play. A way to watch it on my Xbox. Subtitles. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- throwawayacc201711 · 2023-10-02 01:10 Because it’s anathema to human nature. Human history has shown that they will behave like pieces of shit given the opportunity and without guard rails put in place. You shouldn’t care what I tell you. But I can tell you why I don’t care what you tell me, and how other people are perceiving your comments: it comes off as someone that doesn’t care about other people. You’re acting as if software repos are somehow not part of some type of human collective. They are. They have maintainers, contributors, or are tied to an organization. They should and do have rules on acceptable behavior. Software development doesn’t happen in a vacuum. People are involved, so there are rules. I’ll ask this again: show any organization, group, system, place, collective, etc that has no rules. Code of conduct is just a fancy term for that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Temporary_Affect · 2023-10-02 01:12 I'm confused. Aside from an xbox client, which was in development before MS killed UWP, Jellyfin already has all of these things. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PropaneMilo · 2023-10-02 01:13 Oh? Nice. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NoFee8238 · 2023-10-02 01:20 "Shutting down discussion" is a strange way to describe maintaining and moderating a forum that is specifically for you to share your voice. Last I checked you could even log in to the forum with your reddit account. The reason that the reddit presence was made read- only is because it doesn't meet the needs of people looking for information, or people who want to share it. It's simply a one- dimensional feed designed to create ad space. There is a bit of complexity to the decision, but the short version is: forums allow useful information to be readily available, reddit buries it in favor of farming impressions. It just doesn't make any sense to try to support jellyfin on reddit, because reddit doesn't readily facilitate providing the information in an effective or efficient way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Temporary_Affect · 2023-10-02 01:23 Yeah, I mean, remote play is a more manual thing because Jellyfin does not have centralized server accounts like Plex. But that's by design. But it certainly supports remote playback on all sorts of devices. And subtitles are most certainly a thing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dereksalem · 2023-10-02 01:24 Yes and no. There’s no reverse proxy styling like Plex has, which is kind-of annoying when trying to share with non-technical people, making remote sharing a tough sell compared to Plex where you just say “give me your account email.” Subtitle support is very hit-and-miss too, because it’s heavily dependent on the client, most of which *really* suck. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- purepersistence · 2023-10-02 01:24 Huh. I search all the time and only see my stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dsphar · 2023-10-02 01:26 What do you mean your stuff? Does your server have libraries added that aren't part of your stuff? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Oddstr13 · 2023-10-02 01:29 Full disclosure; I am part of the Jellyfin team. For what it's worth, we explicitly decided *not* to nuke the subreddit, as some of the content there *does* have value, and search engines will be pointing at posts there for years to come. A nuke would include deleting all posts. A bit pedantic, I know. As for rubbing a lot of people the wrong way, that's exactly what happened with Reddit's API changes. I hardly ever visit Reddit directly any more, and usually only come here when linked from somewhere else (I was not, and I am not a sub mod). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- purepersistence · 2023-10-02 01:29 I don’t understand the question. When I search I just see movies or shows I’ve downloaded and can watch. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NoFee8238 · 2023-10-02 01:30 the fastest support happens in the discord/matrix/irc space. a hundful of us are there pretty much around the clock, and if you need help with jellyfin that's not covered in the documentation, the chat space is a reasonable first stop. frankly if it were me I would make a concise forum post, and then drop a link to it in the chat. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Temporary_Affect · 2023-10-02 01:39 The only way to make Jellyfin work like Plex with respect to remote shares would be for Jellyfin to set up centralized account servers like Plex. That's why Plex can handle certificates and account creation and sharing. But that's entirely contrary to Jellyfin's objectives as a project. Jellyfin will never be as easy to use as Plex. But this is /r/selfhosted. Reverse proxies and web servers shouldn't be scary here. Subtitles can use some work in some clients, sure. That's definitely an area of need. But that's the point of the call to arms here. I'm aware of two attempts to improve the subtitle handling in the Android TV client, for example, but both PRs were from contributors who vanished when they were asked to make changes by reviewers, and the PRs were simply abandoned. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Oddstr13 · 2023-10-02 01:40 Full disclosure; I am part of the Jellyfin team. To be fair, good will is entirely based on people's opinion of a company/project/person. So, people posting here saying they're not happy about the Jellyfin sub going restricted is in itself data that shows that at least some goodwill has been lost. How much goodwill? Hard to quantify for the community as a whole, but it is quite clear that most (if not all) of @bobbarker4444's goodwill (among others) has been lost. This is unfortunate, but also difficult if not impossible to avoid when making large changes, such as the ones in question here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 01:40 > it comes off as someone that doesn’t care about other people Second sentence of the comment. Clearly, people aren't very good at reading, or perhaps comprehension is the problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dsphar · 2023-10-02 01:40 Ahh I see. Here is an example. Suppose you have 2 different movie folders. One for adults, and one for kids. Jellyfin lets you define which "folder" is available for each user account. That way you can stop your kids from getting access to your adult movies. Problem is, when your kids do a search on their account... they will be able to see results from the adult movie folder even though their account shouldn't have access. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 01:41 Nice argument. Perhap's the CoC for Jellyfin should mention that its not allowed to murder people who contribute? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dereksalem · 2023-10-02 01:46 I know all of that lol but someone asked what was missing, someone else responded, then they were told those things basically work fine. I refuted it. I realize there are reasons for it all, but that doesn’t mean they’re not still problems. The remote sharing and subtitle issues are a big reason a lot of people have a hard time switching. I run ~30 services from my main servers at home and they’re all behind some level of DNS address, but when talking to a 75 year-old relative just trying to watch MASH it’s much easier to just have them sign up for Plex and download the apps than have them set up each individual app with the custom endpoints they need. I also don’t want to have to support users when they have password or access issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- purepersistence · 2023-10-02 01:47 I hear ya. Inconsistent with my experience though. I have a bunch of nsfw that is not accessible except with a admin login I don’t normally use. I never see that stuff in a search for some reason. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dsphar · 2023-10-02 01:49 Interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if the filter is implemented on the client. If this is the case, Roku may act differently than Android, or Web. BRB gonna go check lol. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kagayaki · 2023-10-02 01:49 You can limit what libraries that a user can access, so if you have multiple users who can access your jellyfin server, you can make it so they can only access specific libraries. I guess they want those users to able to see content listed to which they don't have access, but not actually be able to watch it? Kind of a strange request imo. Unless they're saying the opposite -- that they can see things to which they don't have access. If that's the case, they may need to upgrade since I just created a new user to test the behavior and I don't see search results unless I have access to the library from where the search result would come. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Temporary_Affect · 2023-10-02 01:49 Sure. I wasn't really trying to argue, more I was trying to address these as missing features that someone might be able to work on. The remote access situation isn't missing so much as inherently different, was my main point. PRs to make it work like Plex would simply be rejected. But the subtitles ARE maybe a good opportunity. I was just trying to explain what's going on with them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thekrautboy · 2023-10-02 01:51 Simply based on your few comments here it becomes quite obvious that **you** are exactly the person who would break these CoC. And thats why they exist. If **you** have a problem with them, then simply dont be a part of that project and move on. Feel free to tell all your "friends" how terrible Jellyfin has become. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HiddeHandel · 2023-10-02 01:52 Mostly want to work on an automated rename plugin like plex has just so you can get the it all consistent (i know sonarr and radarr do it but sometimes its nice to just yeet stuff in a folder and be done with it) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Oddstr13 · 2023-10-02 01:53 Full disclosure; I am part of the Jellyfin team. The core server, and plugins are written in C#, yes – but there is plenty of other work to be done in other areas of the project. There's JavaScript (*shudder*), Python (my personal favorite), whatever language Roku is written in, GitHub Actions and translations to mention a few. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HiddeHandel · 2023-10-02 01:53 Also maybe an auto update script that checks jellyfin for updates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- selfhosted-ModTeam · 2023-10-02 01:54 This post is being removed due to the subject not being related to the "selfhosted" theme of the community. Please message the mods if you have any questions or believe this removal has been in error. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- refreshbag · 2023-10-02 01:59 Serious question - what don't you like about C#? I've been using it for a few months at work and I've loved it. It seems like a perfectly reasonable choice for a project like Jellyfin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dsphar · 2023-10-02 02:02 I just looked. We are both right lol. Roku mixes libraries but Web and Fire TV do not. Not sure about other clients. This is a "code smell", which isn't good when trying to recruit unpaid developers. This sort of result filtering should NOT be handled by the client, period. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- purepersistence · 2023-10-02 02:05 Gotcha. My Roku just has a TV remote. I do all the searching on the web. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thornbill · 2023-10-02 03:08 The plans for the API have changed a bit overtime. It seems pretty clear at this point that a complete overhaul of the API at one time is not really feasible. We will instead be gradually introducing new and updated APIs and deprecate old ones as updates occur. This should be much less disruptive for everyone involved. 🤞 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bromeister · 2023-10-02 03:27 > I'm just stating what happened so I don't really understand where your reply is coming from but I'll do my best to answer regardless I was surprised that there would be significant negative sentiment so I figured I'd expound on the motivations behind such a move and why other open source projects make similar choices. Here's an interesting [article and discussion](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502258) on why people might choose to avoid discord for their projects or products. It's not 1:1 but there are a lot of parallels with operating a subreddit. Otherwise the other commenter's reply has said as much as I would. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- abortionparty · 2023-10-02 03:32 Could this not simply be a result of having DLNA enabled? Try disabling DLNA and see if it resolves the issue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 04:12 Could you elaborate? What take? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 04:22 >"Shutting down discussion" is a strange way to describe maintaining and moderating a forum that is specifically for you to share your voice Sorry, are you under the impression I'm talking about them shutting down the forums? I'm talking about the subreddit that shut down. I urge you to re-read what I've written if you've misunderstood that pretty important element. I'm also happy to elaborate if what I'm saying isn't clear ---------------------------------------------------------------------- friendlysatanicguy · 2023-10-02 04:34 Fair enough. Although it maybe worthwhile to focus more on getting existing contributions reviewed rather than working on new features in the short term even if that maybe unpopular. Since it will be hard for there to be more contributors if they feel like their contributions end up hitting a dead end. It's not going to be useful to call for more people to help it they feel like there's no one from the project available to help their contributions see the finish line. I also think it'll help to document good first issues that new contributors can pick up and link them in this blog if they already exist. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dsphar · 2023-10-02 04:37 I will check and see... but that isn't an acceptable solution, just a bandaid. Smelly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 04:46 >As for rubbing a lot of people the wrong way, that's exactly what happened with Reddit's API changes I don't know. For example, I'm still perfectly able to go to /r/plex and talk about plex with other people there. In fact no one there seems to even know about API changes as it hasn't seemed to have impacted anything on the subreddit. The only time it seems to really have impacted people is when cases like /r/jellyfin happen and the moderators just kill it out of principle or whatever their reasoning may be. I know you have/had nothing to do with the moderation, but the biggest pain point I've seen brought up is that the subreddit is intentionally kept dead. It exists to funnel people off-site which is contrary to what reddit is all about. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sneakpeekbot · 2023-10-02 04:46 Here's a sneak peek of /r/PleX using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/PleX/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [I used an old signage TV to display currently streaming movie poster to my home theater entrance](https://i.redd.it/6z3lxnzd5gt91.jpg) | [197 comments](https: //np.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/y2grz7/i_used_an_old_signage_tv_to_dis play_currently/) \#2: [/r/Plex will be going private on June 12th](https://np.reddit.co m/r/PleX/comments/1471rl6/rplex_will_be_going_private_on_june_12th/) \#3: [My new TV remote has a Plex button (Hisense)](https://i.redd.it/t2vgl4sey8ca1.jpg) | [205 comments](https ://np.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/10cjcut/my_new_tv_remote_has_a_plex_b utton_hisense/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](ht tps://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- codestar4 · 2023-10-02 06:51 > we don't need money > we need developers willing to work for free ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AssistBorn4589 · 2023-10-02 10:37 > Love the dog whistle though as if there’s something even contentious in their CoC. It is. > It’s literally don’t be a piece of shit. There's nothing of such writen in it. I'd suggest to read it before arguing in its favor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jeff-fan01 · 2023-10-02 11:13 > And are you really trying to say that the regular community of /r/jellyfin enjoyed having their community killed? Really? We can't please everyone. The forum is quite active, so I think the project itself will be fine. If you really believe there's a need for a Jellyfin subreddit, anyone is free to create a new one. No one seems to have done so though, so I guess it wasn't that big of an issue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jeff-fan01 · 2023-10-02 11:18 > Sure. I'm sure they must have a reason to dislike community discussion on reddit. That doesn't mean every other person must agree with them, right? It is all outlined in our "Leaving reddit" post that is currently pinned on /r/jellyfin. You should read it carefully. > No. Using your power as an authority to shut down discussion is the opposite of self-hosting and FOSS in general. The control should be with the many, not with the few. Independance and freedom are key ideas, not centralization and authority. Reddit Admins don't seem to share those values :) > No cost other than effort. And privacy, data policies etc.. What happens when/if Discord eventually starts charging for more features? Or change their policies to be in direct conflict with FOSS? You don't own a Discord community. It'd be pretty stupid for a FOSS project/community to invest heavily into Discord. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Legitimate_Farm_3095 · 2023-10-02 11:23 your whole comment! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- solidsnake1298 · 2023-10-02 11:23 I guess you have a problem with just about every open source app, then? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 12:38 > throwing a fit ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 12:41 Ooh, that one again. It will definitely make me a bigot this time. Yet another example of the project not being a hive of drama. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quaderrordemonstand · 2023-10-02 12:51 Because I don't agree CoC are a good idea? Wouldn't I have to actually do something bad first? Otherwise that seems a bit fascist. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NoFee8238 · 2023-10-02 13:45 Im saying that these people are going to the trouble of maintaining a space whose entire purpose is you discussing whatever jellyfin topic you want. That's not so much shutting down discussion as facilitating and fostering it. Reddit is a shitty tool for supporting a piece of software, so Jellyfin used a different one. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- codestar4 · 2023-10-02 14:20 No, but I do have a problem with actively avoiding any chance at compensating development. Many open source apps don't have the means to compensate, which is fine. Not many (that I know of) are upfront about wanting to avoid any means of paying developers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NoFee8238 · 2023-10-02 17:04 Bug bounties have always been avoided in Jellyfin because they affect the direction of the project. Nobody wants jellyfin to be steered by money or the people who have it, and bug bounties are just that with extra steps. That isn't egalitarian enough for Jellyfin, which opts for a do-ocracy instead. Decisions are made by people who DO the contributing, not by people who pay. Is this perfectly egalitarian? No, and my guess would be that the projet would be open to suggestions that make it MORE egalitarian, but involving money will take the project in the opposite direction. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NoFee8238 · 2023-10-02 17:26 The behavior is handled on the server but their are different search endpoints with different bugs. Roku has the bug because it uses the /hints endpoint instead of the /search endpoint, although I'm not sure why. perhaps it would be as easy as refactoring the roku app to use the same endpoint as web and androidtv. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Oddstr13 · 2023-10-02 17:44 The fact that you're not seeing many posting on reddit now which don't care about the API changes is related to the [survivorship bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias). The people who really cared has mostly already left (or at least aren't posting much any more). The whole point of reddit (at least originally) was to link people off-site, and have discussions around the content linked (the linked websites usually didn't have their own comment section). Asking support from the community is still available from the forum (which you can use your reddit account to log in with if you so desire), Matrix, Discord and IRC. GitHub issues is also available, but is less for asking for support and more for reporting issues and providing detailed details of said issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- codestar4 · 2023-10-02 18:31 Thanks for explaining the reasoning. I don't necessarily agree, but I can understand the intent. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 18:47 >The people who really cared has mostly already left (or at least aren't posting much any more). And what makes you think this is a significant number? The experience of using reddit has not really changed for the vast majority of people so I am just doubting that this is really an issue at all. >The whole point of reddit (at least originally) was to link people off-site, and have discussions around the content linked (the linked websites usually didn't have their own comment section). No, it was to discuss off-site topics, on site. Reddit *never* existed simply to have people leave reddit. That doesn't make sense. The point was and isto discuss topics from outside of reddit.. *on reddit.* A communal place of discussion. It would be like the /r/selfhosted moderators shutting down the sub entirely and telling people to use the forum they set up instead. That's ABSOLUTELY not what reddit is or ever was about. >Asking support from the community is still available from the forum (which you can use your reddit account to log in with if you so desire), Matrix, Discord and IRC. GitHub issues is also available, but is less for asking for support and more for reporting issues and providing detailed details of said issues. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 19:00 >Im saying that these people are going to the trouble of maintaining a space whose entire purpose is you discussing whatever jellyfin topic you want. That's not so much shutting down discussion as facilitating and fostering it. Right. I'm not talking about the forum. I don't really know how much more clear I can make that >Reddit is a shitty tool for supporting a piece of software, so Jellyfin used a different one Why are you under the impression that subreddits only exist for *supporting* software and nothing else? I feel like you're just on a totally different page than me right now which is making is hard to understand what you're trying to get at here, sorry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NoFee8238 · 2023-10-02 19:07 this is a perfect example of how reddit is not a good medium for the exchange of information. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 19:11 Right... but what is ridiculous about it? What there was even a "take"? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NoFee8238 · 2023-10-02 19:21 I am saying your claim is ridiculous. Nobody is shutting down discussion. Discussion has moved. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 19:22 >It is all outlined in our "Leaving reddit" post that is currently pinned on r/jellyfin. You should read it carefully (hint: there's a link to a blog post in there). I've read it. Their reasons aren't really an important part of the discussion. Their *actions* are what we are talking about. >Reddit Admins don't seem to share those values :) Could you elaborate? Why would that require a subreddit to be killed? >And privacy, data policies etc.. What happens when/if Discord eventually starts charging for more features? Or change their policies to be in direct conflict with FOSS? You don't own a Discord community. It'd be pretty stupid for a FOSS project/community to invest heavily into Discord. I don't understand. You're saying that because it's possible that at one point in the future that Discord (or any site/service I assume?) might possibly charge for a feature or change a policy, that they should therefore never attempt to use it to foster a community in the first place? I'm sorry but that's absolutely ridiculous. Even if Discord, Reddit, etc were to shut down entirely in a few years it would still be stupid to not use them while they're available. Bar none, reddit is the best way to build a large community. The numbers on the sub before it died blow everything else still alive out of the water. If your project *depends* on a community you're a fool for not taking advantage of it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 20:42 They literally prevent anyone from posting in the subreddit. That's the definition of shutting down discussion. I'm not sure how you missed that or didn't understand. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jeff-fan01 · 2023-10-02 20:58 Agree to disagree. Our actions follow our principles. I don't know why it's such a hard pill to swallow. Jellyfin is first and foremost a FOSS project. We have moved to a self-hosted FOSS platform, which we believe is better for the health of the community we wish to nurture. I'm sorry that our actions have cut you so deep, and I'm sorry that you're unable to see why a FOSS community wouldn't truly thrive on a closed-source platform that is only put into this world to profit off you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-02 22:48 > Jellyfin is first and foremost a FOSS project Yep. And FOSS projects live and die with their community. A blow to the community is a blow to the project. >why a FOSS community wouldn't truly thrive on a closed-source platform Seems to works perfectly fine for other FOSS projects. In fact it was working totally fine for Jellyfin too until the moderators decided to axe it. If you want to talk about *not* thriving, we can start talking about the engagement rates on the forums, the matrix, etc. But sure. Agree to disagree for as long as that works ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kmisterk · 2023-10-03 03:19 Both of these style posts that were removed have been replaced by an official post from the "Project Lead" and moderator approved. Please follow along there: https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/16ygpwo/jellyfin_a_call_f or_developers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jeff-fan01 · 2023-10-03 08:03 Linux kernel still uses mailing lists. It doesn't really matter what other projects are doing. We did what was best for _us_. I didn't dodge any questions. I just didn't address them individually. I assumed you'd be smart enough to extrapolate. It just seems to me like you just won't accept my answers and our reasoning :) We don't need a huge community. We'd rather have a smaller community with great contributors than wading through tons and tons of low effort shit posts (Reddit in a nutshell). We're in a better spot now than months ago. Now we can focus on curating content on our forums, promote useful posts and build a larger dev team of like-minded individuals. At the end of the day, we work on JF because it's fun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-03 15:28 > I just didn't address them individually No you didn't lol. Come on, this is just sad. >We don't need a huge community. We'd rather have a smaller community You're joking, right? Rather than admit that what the mods did was detrimental to the project's long term health.. you're going to say you'd *prefer* that fewer people knew or cared about the project you're dedicating your time and effort to? That dwindling interest s *good* thing? I don't believe that for a second. But hey, keep posting "Call to arms" lol. Hope that works out ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jeff-fan01 · 2023-10-03 16:04 > You're joking, right? Rather than admit that what the mods did was detrimental to the project's long term health.. you're going to say you'd prefer that fewer people knew or cared about the project you're dedicating your time and effort to? That dwindling interest is good thing? > I don't believe that for a second. You seem to think that any and all interest is a net positive. It's really not that simple. I've been working on the project since January 2019. I've been a mod on the sub since its inception. Popularity increases the number of nonconstructive complaints dramatically. On bad days it destroys my motivation. > Reddit is totally fine to use when you want to put out a call for more developers but evil and bad the rest of the time, I guess? Reddit is on a downward spiral and I'm sad to see it happen. I've been using it for over a decade. We have never liked Reddit as a platform for Jellyfin though. It very quickly devolved into low effort posts and any useful information was lost to the flow of time (i.e. Reddit's algorithm). > > Reddit Admins don't seem to share those values :) > Could you elaborate? Why would that require this one specific subreddit to be killed? It's our subreddit. We do not wish to have an official presence on the platform due to aforementioned issues with the platform as a whole. The Reddit Admins have also shown that they don't really care about its users. Mods are considered "landed gentry". They only care about revenue and they will stop at nothing to increase it. We will not hand over the subreddit as our names are forever tied to it. Anyone is completely free to create a new subreddit and grow the community. We just won't be attached to it in any capacity. > I don't understand. You're saying that because it's possible that at one point in the future that Discord (or any site/service I assume?) might possibly charge for a feature or change a policy, that they should therefore never attempt to use it to foster a community in the first place? > I'm sorry but that's absolutely ridiculous. Even if Discord, Reddit, etc were to shut down entirely in a few years it would still be stupid to not use them while they're available. Bar none, reddit is the best way to build a large community. The numbers on the sub before it died blow everything else still alive out of the water. If your project depends on a community you're a fool for not taking advantage of it. I feel like I've answered this many times already. We don't want some corporate third-party to control all of our data. They can kill it in seconds if they want. GitHub is a necessary "evil" (it's not evil, but it's a third-party we have no control over) for OSS. Reddit is not. > Yep. And FOSS projects live and die with their community. > A blow to the community is a blow to the project. Reddit is just not the be-all and end-all in that regard. There are other ways to grow a community. You don't see Linux and Debian relying on Reddit, do you? No matter what we do, someone will disagree or even hate us for it. That's just the way it is. > > why a FOSS community wouldn't truly thrive on a closed-source platform > Seems to work perfectly fine for other FOSS projects. In fact it was working totally fine for Jellyfin too until the moderators decided to axe it. > If you want to talk about not thriving, we can start talking about the engagement rates on the forums, the matrix, etc. Which other FOSS projects rely on Reddit to such a degree that "killing" the subreddit would kill the project? I just don't see it. We are in a much better head-space now. We have far less moderation to handle and the number of low-effort posts has been reduced dramatically. Now that I've addressed your questions individually: See how I'm basically just repeating stuff I've written previously? It's fine that you disagree with our decision but you should try to see it from our point of view instead of your "Reddit good" mentality. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bobbarker4444 · 2023-10-03 17:59 >On bad days it destroys my motivation. So it's a personal thing? The community that reddit fosters is bad because on some days it kills your motivation? Why get yourself involved at all then? >Reddit is on a downward spiral What makes you think this? As far as I can tell on traffic-monitoring websites like Ahrefs, google trends, etc reddit is growing quite a bit. What signs do you see that it's going down at all? >We have never liked Reddit as a platform for Jellyfin though So don't use it? >We do not wish to have an official presence on the platform And redditors don't want it as an *official* presence either. That's the point. Reddit is supposed to be about community discussion, not 'official' discussion. Supplanting the community and then complaining that you've supplanted the community just does not make sense. >We don't want some corporate third-party to control all of our data. They can kill it in seconds if they want ..what data are you providing to reddit? Do you even understand how the platform works? And let me get this straight... out of fear of the reddit maybe shutting down some day and killing the sub, you decided to kill the sub so that reddit couldn't kill the sub? Is that correct? >Reddit is just not the be-all and end-all in that regard. Never said it was. It's just the largest and most accessible. It'd be like wanting your site to show up in search results but also blacklisting it from Google. >Which other FOSS projects rely on Reddit to such a degree that "killing" the subreddit would kill the project? I never said it would kill the project. If you're going to pretend I said something just so that you can try to argue against it.. just stop replying. Your dishonesty is wasting your time and mine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jeff-fan01 · 2023-10-03 18:22 > Your dishonesty is wasting your time and mine. Your inability to see opposing viewpoints is wasting my time. > So it's a personal thing? The community that reddit fosters is bad because on some days it kills your motivation? I never said that. Reddit fosters easily digestible content. Some call it doom-scrolling. That is not the kind of content we're interested in. > What makes you think this? As far as I can tell on traffic- monitoring websites like Ahrefs, google trends, etc reddit is growing quite a bit. You misunderstand completely. Is it intentional? I am not talking about user numbers. This is philosophical. But again, you keep not wanting to understand it. > So don't use it? We are using it to the extent that we think is suitable for the project: Announcements. > Supplanting the community and then complaining that you've supplanted the community just does not make sense. And where did I/we do that? > ..what data are you providing to reddit? Do you even understand how the platform works? > And let me get this straight... out of fear of the reddit maybe shutting down some day and killing the sub, you decided to kill the sub so that reddit couldn't kill the sub? > Is that correct? Do you even know what data is? I find it funny that you are arguing these viewpoints on /r/selfhosted. Why are you even here? > Never said it was. It's just the largest and most accessible. It might be, but as I've said numerous times, that's not what matters. Should we also have a presence on TikTok? > I never said it would kill the project. If you're going to pretend I said something just so that you can try to argue against it.. just stop replying. You act like it. It was written tongue in cheek. You've yet to refute any of my points with something that isn't "Reddit big, big community best".