If you're not using Debian, what are you using and why? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cjchico · 2023-09-29 22:04 So a few months back I started moving some of my services to Rocky Linux since I wanted something rock-solid and stable. We all know what happened shortly thereafter with the whole Red Hat mess. Instead of moving back to Ubuntu Server, I started moving to Debian, and let me just say: Wow! Debian is significantly faster than Ubuntu Server from my experience, has less bloat, and should be just as stable as Rocky. It's been an absolute pleasure using it. So what Linux OS is everyone else using for their self-hosted services and why? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- phein4242 · 2023-09-29 22:14 servers on alma, currently eyeing talos for k8s and arch on the workstations ofc :p ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Moondogjunior · 2023-09-29 22:17 Debian ---------------------------------------------------------------------- akamuraaa · 2023-09-29 22:20 fedora, bc i like dnf more than apt. also cockpit is very good for a server management ---------------------------------------------------------------------- io-x · 2023-09-29 22:22 Debian is the new Ubuntu? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Shogobg · 2023-09-29 22:24 How did you measure the speed? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrpink57 · 2023-09-29 22:25 I am on ubuntu server, the reason I did initally when I moved from OMV was native ZFS support, its leagues better than OMV or even TrueNAS for me as I do not want a GUI. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kended · 2023-09-29 22:27 I’m still using Ubuntu servers on my proxmox box. At this point I have everything set up and I’m just too lazy to change it, especially while it all works perfectly. Maybe when I upgrade to some new hardware or get new project ideas I’ll finally make the switch. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- applesoff · 2023-09-29 22:28 Ubuntu has been great for me. Running docker and nothing else. Minimal install on an NUC from 2005. No hiccups ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mshorey81 · 2023-09-29 22:30 Debian ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TinyMicron · 2023-09-29 22:33 Mostly NixOS :) but also Debian. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PassiveLemon · 2023-09-29 22:34 NixOS with Docker. It's just super slim, stable, safe, and easy to work with (Initial setup may take some time). You could always use NixOS containers or the Nix Docker integration with Arion but just enabling the Docker service and managing everything through Portainer is good enough for me. Docker is currently just a part of my main desktop since I do not have a separate server machine but I've had zero issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cjchico · 2023-09-29 22:35 I didn't really, but boot up time is insanely quick, using apt and performing other tasks feel a lot faster. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -quakeguy- · 2023-09-29 22:35 RHEL and Rocky, because I work in IT infra and around these parts, Linux side is maybe 95% RHEL family and 4% Ubuntu and 1% for all the others combined. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DudeWithaTwist · 2023-09-29 22:36 I use proxmox as my base OS, which is just software on top of Debian. But for my VMs, I often use Alpine because it consumes very little resources. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fresh_Feesh · 2023-09-29 22:41 (Slackware)[http://www.slackware.com] Linux I've been using it for two decades and I enjoy the lack of hand- holding. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EndlessHiway · 2023-09-29 22:41 I use several distros depending on what I want to do. Why does it matter what other people use? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JordanBerlyn · 2023-09-29 22:42 I run Arch on my server. I run it on my laptop so it's what I am most familiar with. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- compuwar · 2023-09-29 22:46 Mostly Ubuntu, but slowly moving things to FreeBSD. Debian is upstream for Ubuntu, there shouldn’t be a significant difference on the server side. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Changarh · 2023-09-29 22:50 As a fellow NixOS enjoyer (archlinux on laptop, NixOS on server), I must add that it's slow and takes a lot of ram while updating, may not be the fastest linux experience. But that's a cost I'm willing to pay. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xxredxpandaxx · 2023-09-29 22:53 Not the most popular around here, but I use unraid. I have three different servers that run it for various applications/VMs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This-Gene1183 · 2023-09-29 23:01 You can install cockpit on a Debian base system ---------------------------------------------------------------------- opensrcdev · 2023-09-29 23:01 I use Ubuntu Server for everything. X86 & ARM servers, and even VMs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cynyr36 · 2023-09-29 23:02 Proxmox (mainly) but the containers are a mix of debian or Alpine depending on what it's doing and which is easier to get whatever its hosting installed on. Basically if i can "apk add foo" or the dependencies for foo, then I'm running Alpine. If it's not available for either Debian or Alpine and doesn't have a "manual install" option I'm probably just passing. I'm not dealing with docker/podman without a good reason. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- InsertNounHere88 · 2023-09-29 23:09 systemd-analyze ---------------------------------------------------------------------- string-user-equals · 2023-09-29 23:11 Yep same. Get tired of dnf install package *fuck, right, this is a Debian server* Apt-get install package firewall-cmd --add-port=837/tcp --permanent *rabble rabble rabble* sudo ufw allow 837/tcp ---------------------------------------------------------------------- agent_kater · 2023-09-29 23:11 Debian used to be hopelessly outdated for everything that is still being actively developed, but now that everything is running in Docker that has become mostly irrelevant. Good reminder, I should give it a try. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- string-user-equals · 2023-09-29 23:12 Yep same. Get tired of dnf install package *fuck, right, this is a Debian server* Apt-get install package firewall-cmd --add-port=837/tcp --permanent *rabble rabble rabble* ufw allow 837/tcp *how do I make that permanent again? Hmmm* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jandefris · 2023-09-29 23:12 All my VMs run Ubuntu plus Debian for the default Proxmox underlying OS. Debating about moving to moving to Rocky Linux to get more experience on stuff closer to RHEL. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- binary_flame · 2023-09-29 23:13 I actually use Diet-pi. It's really lightweight, and has automated installation of a lot of software you might install. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Delyzr · 2023-09-29 23:16 Servers debian. Workstations fedora. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- billiarddaddy · 2023-09-29 23:18 Started using Debian after the CentOS debacle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- OCT0PUSCRIME · 2023-09-29 23:20 I've only really used debian. Tried out Ubuntu a few times but it just feels bloated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- elsphinc · 2023-09-29 23:23 Gentoo because I'm a glutton for punishment every 3 months or so ---------------------------------------------------------------------- InsertNounHere88 · 2023-09-29 23:23 crusty packages I like having dnf, btrfs snapshots, cockpit, and podman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CeeMX · 2023-09-29 23:23 Ufw persists stuff automatically ---------------------------------------------------------------------- string-user-equals · 2023-09-29 23:24 Heheh I know but it always feels wrong 😄 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- trancekat · 2023-09-29 23:24 Alpine Linux Tiny and fast ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Xenkath · 2023-09-29 23:24 I run Alpine on all my VMs. I love how minimal it is, it doesn’t include anything I don’t need. Some things are available in apk that aren’t available from other package managers, like Lazydocker for example. On Debian you have to manually download the binary from GitHub and manage updates yourself. Ain’t nobody got time for that. I also appreciate how easy it is to manage startup order for services at boot. At one point I was trying to store the docker root directory on an iscsi mount on Debian, and for the life of me I could not get the iscsi Target to mount before Docker started. I spent all my free time for the better part of a week tweaking systemd modules without success. On Alpine? Just add them to different run levels. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CeeMX · 2023-09-29 23:27 When I started in IT I hated how Cisco switches and routers always required to copy to boot configuration. Until I screwed something up and it was fixed/reverted by just power cycling the device. It really feels weird to persist directly, especially on a remote machine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ManWithoutUsername · 2023-09-29 23:28 Few years ago i begin use Ubuntu, now i hate it all their shit and go back to Debian (2yr ago) as the main distro for my servers. Then sometimes need install other distros, depends of projects... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Laufabraud43 · 2023-09-29 23:32 Windows 10 Home... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- codecarter · 2023-09-29 23:32 bodhi linux. I like that it comes without all the bloat and quick frankly I like the gui. really clean looking although it takes a while to get use to the menu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kagayaki · 2023-09-29 23:33 I use Gentoo for every Linux machine I maintain, including servers. Why? Why not. Most of my stuff is running through docker anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- string-user-equals · 2023-09-29 23:36 Absolutely! It’s great piece of mind that the worst case is you have a site contact power cycle. For servers hopefully you have out of band management. But I like that RHEL has that feature ---------------------------------------------------------------------- trisanachandler · 2023-09-29 23:36 Ubuntu on cloud (Oracle and it's easy), omv on a docker host, Ubuntu on wsl. I quit Debian a little while back because too many packages were missing features. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gold-Ranger · 2023-09-29 23:38 >Windows Right here with yah. It's working so well i really don't have a reason to use Linux instead ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corruptboomerang · 2023-09-29 23:41 I find Ubuntu a little easier to use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- skc5 · 2023-09-29 23:43 Ubuntu server is great! They even give you some free licenses for Pro which gets you things like ESM and kernel live patching! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DaftPump · 2023-09-29 23:44 Not OP but I learn new things reading replies of such posts. Maybe that's OP's goal too? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- quzaire · 2023-09-29 23:44 I should look at Debian but i’ve been tampering with Intel Clear Linux for the architecture optimizations and quick boots ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EndlessHiway · 2023-09-29 23:47 Not what it sounded like at all. Plus it doesn't really have anything to do with self-hosting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- boli99 · 2023-09-29 23:47 ubuntu, becase many years ago i needed something that came as default in ubuntu server, and wasnt default in debian. so then i stuck with it. but ubuntu is becoming noticably more intrusive with thinly-veiled adverts, and i suspect it may be time for a change. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ur_mamas_krama · 2023-09-29 23:47 It always has been Debian 😉 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CatOfTheDecade · 2023-09-29 23:57 I left Ubuntu server because honestly I just got tired of my OS advertising at me. Jumped to Debian, haven't looked back. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- malastare- · 2023-09-29 23:59 Boot time is a poor indicator of performance. It really just measures the boot style and number of services. You can pare down the ubuntu install to be similar to debian, but there certainly are faster boot systems than systemd. Past that, performance has very little to do with the boot speed. I'm no ubuntu fanboy, and I've used Fedora, and Arch for servers as well, and prefer Mint or elementary for graphical VMs. But I measure performance based on runtime performance, not startup speed, and I'd take slower startup speed (a thing I do only rarely) if it improved support for various modern software patterns when installing or updating software (a thing I do frequently) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RubixKuber · 2023-09-30 00:02 It has everything to do with self hosting. This is a tech subreddit, people ask tech questions, don’t piss in your porridge so much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RubixKuber · 2023-09-30 00:05 Why do you dislike Ubuntu? My home lab is basically just an RPI, but I have to spin up lab environments for work all the time and I generally use Ubuntu simply because all my automations and scripts are initially based around it & I can’t be bothered spending the hours rewriting them all. It works fine for pretty much everything, IMO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EndlessHiway · 2023-09-30 00:06 No it doesn't and apparently you cant even read what the topic of the sub is, which explains a lot. Dunce. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RubixKuber · 2023-09-30 00:06 When has the server version ever run advertisements? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mr_whats_it_to_you · 2023-09-30 00:07 On proxmox I use mostly Ubuntu, but I will migrate my services to FreeBSD as far as possible. At work I‘ve got much to do with FreeBSD and I really like it. That‘s why I want to migrate my Home-Services aswell. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RubixKuber · 2023-09-30 00:10 Ubuntu works fine for 99% of the stuff I do. I’d like to move to RHEL eventually but am incredibly lazy, busy, and can’t be bothered. Plus the whole CentOS debacle has me trusting them a hell of a lot less. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RubixKuber · 2023-09-30 00:11 So people aren’t allowed to discuss operating systems they use in their home labs. Got it. Thank god we have the home lab police here to put a stop to all this. Try not to drool on yourself too much, buddy. And remember to keep your helmet on if you leave the house. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AshuraBaron · 2023-09-30 00:12 Ubuntu Server. It's easy, it's simple, it works right away. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hatlevip · 2023-09-30 00:12 Been using debian since 1998! Initially tracked unstable for the newest stuff, then testing and now stable because docker and VMs allow you to track new stuff without affecting the core OS! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MegaVolti · 2023-09-30 00:16 OpenSUSE Tumbleweed I want a rolling distro but with stable automated updates that don't break stuff. Tumbleweed is perfect for that. I'm look forward to their upcoming slow roll distribution, will probably change to that once it's stable, simply to have less frequent updates. I want a rolling distro so that I never have to worry about release upgrades, packages being a few weeks behind isn't a big deal for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- peteyhasnoshoes · 2023-09-30 00:19 Currently running 3 K3S nodes and a pi with some bits and bobs on Ubuntu 22. Also my desktop and laptop are Win 11 with Ubuntu on WSL I need Windows for work (Teams and Office) so it just makes sense to use the same distro and only learn one set of quirks. I'm going to have go at using cassowary to run Office in a VM and if thats stable enough then I might try a bit of distro hopping. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JoeB- · 2023-09-30 00:19 I migrated from CentOS to Debian when Red Hat moved it upstream. I'm not a big fan of Ubuntu. Debian has all I need. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mean_Einstein · 2023-09-30 00:20 Debian, Fedora Server and Fedora CoreOS for Servers. Fedora Workstation for my Client. If you have a container only workload, CoreOS is your friend. I almost forgot I had a VM, it just works, no hassle, updates automatically, cutting edge utilities and kernels, rock solid. Debian is my go-to for more diverse workloads or Cloud Providers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CatOfTheDecade · 2023-09-30 00:21 Starting around 2018. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RubixKuber · 2023-09-30 00:23 Interesting. I’ve been using it since around then and I’ve never seen a single advertisement on server. Desktop, sure. But never server. Where are they/how do they present themselves? Are you using a GUI by chance? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _murb · 2023-09-30 00:24 arch everything. I have scripts for nas, server, laptop, and desktop. I don’t run anything production grade and mostly docker, so OS level shenanigans don’t really impact it too much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- leggyybtw · 2023-09-30 00:25 Alpine virt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chrishoage · 2023-09-30 00:26 I'm in the process of doing the same. I already run Arch on my desktop and laptop, and grew frustrated with Ubuntu, particularly the package manager. I switched my remote server to arch (which was an adventure, I only had access to a debain rescue environment, so had to use [arch- bootstrap ](https://github.com/tokland/arch-bootstrap) to get it installed. Worked first try!) Homelab server is next, just need to carve out the time. Though this will be easier since I can just use the arch iso. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jolteon0 · 2023-09-30 00:27 Ubuntu: It just works. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- R8nbowhorse · 2023-09-30 00:28 Nix or alma server side, arch on my workstations But mostly it's debian. It's just the most consistently rock solid, bloat free distro out there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thatto · 2023-09-30 00:32 OpenSuSE. I distro hopped a lot early on, Red Hat at first . Then and settled on suse because I could buy it at Best buy... actually I bought SCO open Linux first .. but the company really turned shitty. Stuck with them since. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eightcupsofcoffee · 2023-09-30 00:34 Ubuntu is fine, especially if it works for you. For most of the people’s here usecases they are functionally equivalent anyway ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cjchico · 2023-09-30 00:35 I get new feature and paid add-on ads every once in a while via the cli on server. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- stupv · 2023-09-30 00:37 Proxmox is Debian anyway, so you *are* running Debian as your base OS xD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KrazyKirby99999 · 2023-09-30 00:37 CentOS Stream, although I'm considering Fedora CoreOS and openSUSE MicroOS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reddittookmyuser · 2023-09-30 00:38 How do you managed outdated versions of software? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Day0n · 2023-09-30 00:38 AlmaLinux! Wanted something super simple for selfhosting and this was recommended to me. Running pfsense on a virtualbox VM, Plex server and rest of storage is used as a NAS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RubixKuber · 2023-09-30 00:40 Really? Like what, would you be able to provide an example? And which version/versions specifically? I don’t mean to come off as confrontational, I’ve genuinely never seen this and I’m curious to see where it comes from. I suspect this may be an opt-in/out setting somewhere in the OS setup. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pcs3rd · 2023-09-30 00:41 I did nixos on a server and then I started using nixos on anything in a laptop form factor. My Lenovo 10e is much better with mobile-nixos. 16gb emmc and 4gb ram. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- brunopgoncalves · 2023-09-30 00:41 debian sid for desktop, is the main of alot distros. i love ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cjchico · 2023-09-30 00:41 I think last time I paid attention there was something about new enterprise package updates when running apt and a link to learn more. That doesn't really bother me and might not be classified as an ad, but it bloats up the output for no good reason. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jack-of-some · 2023-09-30 00:42 Whatever LTS Ubuntu was already installed on the Nuc work gave me. I've been keeping it up to date. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- roediGERhard · 2023-09-30 00:42 Artix with openrc. I killed my last debian due to outdated packages years ago. I guess docker/debian would have been a solution too back then. Did not know that at the time and now I like my artix too much to go back again. But who knows what the future might bring... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dave1004411 · 2023-09-30 00:51 for the server side of things due to the whole redhat thing ive was about to switch when it happened and decided to just stay with ubuntu server ---------------------------------------------------------------------- liquoredonlife · 2023-09-30 00:52 Same. I love that its supported on pi and x64 proxmox, which makes running some things HA between both fairly trivial. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- henry_tennenbaum · 2023-09-30 00:54 I think that's illegal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RubixKuber · 2023-09-30 00:57 Ah ok, fair enough. Thanks for clarifying. Can’t say I’ve run into that myself but I’d be a bit annoyed if I did. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cosmicosmo4 · 2023-09-30 00:57 Ubuntu server because it's easy, and it's super popular, so when I have a problem, I'm likely to find a solution from a very similar environment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fabricionaweb · 2023-09-30 01:02 +1 alpine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Aurailious · 2023-09-30 01:03 I've started using Talos Linux because it makes it a bit easier to manage for kubernetes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- exzow · 2023-09-30 01:03 What do you prefer about dnf? I do t have much experience myself but haven’t noticed a difference from apt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- omgitsft · 2023-09-30 01:04 PhotonOS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Drak3 · 2023-09-30 01:04 Ubuntu. So kind of not Debian, but may as well be. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- weales · 2023-09-30 01:07 I run Debian 12 on my servers now cause: 1. It just works. 2. I am an idiot and need my hand held so if I need a tutorial on something, someone has made it for Debian. 3. It's Debian. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- evansharp · 2023-09-30 01:09 “…btw” ---------------------------------------------------------------------- proc-sysrq · 2023-09-30 01:09 Fedora-IoT on two clusters running k3s and a handful of edge devices. It's light, ready to use, uses the existing RPM infrastructure but gives me an immutable OS. Updates are seamless and the `toolbox` command is great for one off admin tools. It's very pleasant. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EsEnZeT · 2023-09-30 01:10 Why would I do such heresy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kevdogger · 2023-09-30 01:14 Thought I was the only one using arch for servers..anyway would like to try nix or alpine..not sure why however 🤷🏽‍♂️ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- priyajit4u · 2023-09-30 01:15 MX Linux so technically debian ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kevdogger · 2023-09-30 01:16 What version Debian? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Arkrus · 2023-09-30 01:22 I try to stick with debian more or less, I've got an Ubuntu build server but that's about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- talent_deprived · 2023-09-30 01:31 Same, Desktop and Server, though I remove Snap in mine and mark it to not be installed but other than that, works great and I've run Debian in recent times, it works great too but I have no reason to switch. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- StewedAngelSkins · 2023-09-30 01:32 alpine. i kind of hate openrc though so im thinking of replacing it with nixos. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- StewedAngelSkins · 2023-09-30 01:36 surprised more people here aren't into coreos/flatcar. it's pretty much perfect for servers you want to set and forget. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KingEllis · 2023-09-30 01:47 Following on this, I lived through a moment (I honestly don't remember when or what versions) where Debian went so long without a "stable" release that the prevailing wisdom because, "you should run testing!", and I was like "no", and then it became "now we recommend you run 'unstable'... in 'production'!) and I was like "no!". Then I found Ubuntu LTS with its every-two-year releases in April you can set your watch to, and Debian no longer makes sense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HerbSmokington420 · 2023-09-30 01:48 Dude I run fedora, am careful with my packages, and run most stuff in Docker and I’ve been solid for 2 years ---------------------------------------------------------------------- andyniemi · 2023-09-30 01:49 Ubuntu server ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reditanian · 2023-09-30 01:53 > …and should be just as stable as Rocky You should know, Debian was *the stable distro* that all other distros aspired to, long before RHEL (let alone CentOS or Rocky) even existed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Initial_Leg2233 · 2023-09-30 01:56 I’m still using Debian as my daily driver but I’m increasingly leaning toward Devuan to replace it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BloodyIron · 2023-09-30 01:59 Ubuntu server. I have yet after like 15 years, to find a reason to switch away. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyber_Encephalon · 2023-09-30 01:59 Ubuntu (not even Server, just Desktop) because I'm a basic bitch and also because I'm just getting started with self-hosting and it seemed the easiest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Initial_Leg2233 · 2023-09-30 02:00 I’m curious if anyone is running Void as a self-host server? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BloodyIron · 2023-09-30 02:02 You even bother turning ufw on? What kind of nuclear secrets are you hiding there Mr Evil Big Boss? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nik282000 · 2023-09-30 02:02 LXC containers. If I want to host something with a dependency that is newer than that supplied by Debian stable I can run it on Debian testing or maybe even Ubuntu in a container. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- themedleb · 2023-09-30 02:03 Backports and containers: Docker, Podman, Distrobox, Flatpak, Appimages ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- string-user-equals · 2023-09-30 02:04 Wait until you hear how many VLANs I run at home! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyber_Encephalon · 2023-09-30 02:05 After reading the thread answers I have a side question: is there a graphical view of which Linux distro descended from which Linux distro on the internet somewhere? If there isn't, there should be. But if there is, please let me know where to find it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BloodyIron · 2023-09-30 02:11 I was actually hoping you were going to tell me why you bother with ufw/firewalls on LAN at home or whatnot. I mean... it's not exactly stated what environment this is, but yeah... I really never see anyone caring to turn ufw on in any Ubuntu deployment. Windows? Yeah turn that shit on (Firewalling). Linux out of the box (whatever distro) is far too secure to warrant a firewall (depending on the IT Security threat level being planned for, nation-state you damn well turn that shit on for example). As for you? I'm all ears pls if you'll share. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mikef5410 · 2023-09-30 02:11 Opensuse tumbleweed. Been fantastic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CatOfTheDecade · 2023-09-30 02:13 Nope, SSH only. The articles I linked slow examples. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZeeroMX · 2023-09-30 02:14 I have 2 Arch Linux docker hosts, one is a VM, 1 Bullseye VM, running both running on proxmox. I like Bullseye very much, Ubuntu server isn't one of my favorites, but Arch is my true love. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HumbertFG · 2023-09-30 02:17 Respect... I used Slackware back before there even \*was\* any Red Hat sittin' on a hatstand in some dude's office... This was back in the days of 14.k modems and compiling iptables to share it across a 10mb hub with 3 computers all playing Starcraft 1. I moved onto Redhat.. I think it was 6.. and climbed through the numbers until they circled around again. :P ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Professional-Log4728 · 2023-09-30 02:20 I'm using Ubuntu Server. I would switch to Debian but I really don't feel like transferring everything over ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PublicSchwing · 2023-09-30 02:24 Without Debian, there would be no Ubuntu, obviously. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- string-user-equals · 2023-09-30 02:25 Uh well Linux is not as secure as you think? 😂 Shellshock, heart bleed, dirty cow and dirty pipe all spring to mind immediately. Even if the OS itself is secure, doesn’t mean there aren’t services running that can be exploited. Enabling a firewall and allowing only the traffic you are expecting from the outside takes a couple minutes and is hardening 101. You should do it on every OS IMO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kshot · 2023-09-30 02:46 For desktop I do use Fedora because it just work! For servers I use mostly Debian and some redhat at work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- activ8xp · 2023-09-30 02:58 MacOS sonoma , it's rock solid ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BloodyIron · 2023-09-30 02:59 I know that Linux and the software that runs on it have security issues, I'm not blind to that as I've performed multiple breach recoveries myself. But that doesn't mean that it's warranted 100% of the time, as I said, if the security threat being planned for is lower then it's unwarranted. As the more effective thing to do is to patch frequently, instead of increase the complexity and administrative overhead by managing firewalls on every node, for an intangible gain (if the security threat is lower). And again, I'm specifying LAN. Internet facing systems is a completely different ballgame. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bromeister · 2023-09-30 03:00 I just add firewalld to my debian servers. No sense learning another tool if you don't have to. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AuthenticImposter · 2023-09-30 03:03 Everything at home rests on Proxmox which is based on debian, but since my work only wants RHEL or Ubuntu, that’s all my VMs are running. Though at this point it makes little difference, most my devices are dockerized or could be relatively easily. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bromeister · 2023-09-30 03:04 Talos is great but I've into issues at homelab scale. Mostly related to local storage for single nodes etc. K3s on microos might be a better choice unless you plan to properly do a rook/ceph cluster across multiple nodes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- agent-squirrel · 2023-09-30 03:07 I run sid on my personal laptop. It’s honestly great and hasn’t broken yet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- agent-squirrel · 2023-09-30 03:10 It prevents lateral movement through a network. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- atredd · 2023-09-30 03:11 I use Ubuntu on one of my machines. Why? I don’t really know. 😂 Because I wanted to try it, I think. But I will switch it to Debian (as all my other machines) in the next weeks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- instant_dreams · 2023-09-30 03:12 Even my Raspberry Pis are running Debian latest stable 64bit headless, along with my NUCs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RubixKuber · 2023-09-30 03:14 Oh right. Huh. Never seen those before but yeah, looks like the motd. I’d disable that asap, as move to ship with that as default and I’d imagine the reason I never saw it was because they got quick and bitter backlash. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ChokunPlayZ · 2023-09-30 03:22 I’m considering switching from Ubuntu server to Debian since I deployed it on a production server it is way faster than Ubuntu and less pain than Rocky, I always have a love hate relationship with it well it’s RHEL so it will be stable but I use Debian based Distro most of my life so it’s going to always be a pain ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rpratama · 2023-09-30 03:22 FreeBSD for my reverse proxy machine with Tailscale and Caddy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- string-user-equals · 2023-09-30 03:26 I mean agree to disagree I guess? The time to enable, configure and maintain a firewall is negligible IMO. At work, literally everything is firewalled/secured to the hilt. So perhaps my personal cognitive overhead for firewalls is lower than most? But to me if you are going to have any inbound port opened from the WAN at all, it’s probably best to have firewalls on everything. If it’s pure outbound to the WAN, I get that ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SunkenCrayon · 2023-09-30 03:31 For me it's rollbacks, detailed history, well tested repos, easy copr support, and alongside that grubby. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- prone-to-drift · 2023-09-30 03:33 Believe it or not, Arch. I started self hosting on an old laptop. When I moved to better hardware, I simply copied over my Arch + Docker partition to the new setup. Contrary to what people say about cutting-edge, Arch has been a stable container host for years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lankgren · 2023-09-30 03:34 I'm ootl, what happened with Red Hat/rocky? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sevlonbhoi1 · 2023-09-30 03:40 same. Been running Ubuntu since I started self hosting. homelab and 3 VPS. All running minimal Ubuntu server with all the applications on docker. Have had 0 issues related to OS in last 7-8 years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sevlonbhoi1 · 2023-09-30 03:41 >but boot up time is insanely quick, How frequently do you reboot a server? I don't think boot time is even a factor in server. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 10leej · 2023-09-30 03:49 I've been using Gentoo, but I'm a savage so don't recommend. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BloodyIron · 2023-09-30 04:00 Well it's not about agree or disagree, I've been head of IT Security for two corporations, and you have to pick and choose what you do with your time and effort. In a lower-threat model there are things that aren't as worthwhile as other things. And again, for internet-exposed systems it is different, but most systems should not be internet- exposed. The reality is if a system is not internet-exposed, as in not even through a reverse-proxy, the only way they can realistically be connected to (for legit, or malicious traffic) is on the LAN. And that means your threats are either staff, or someone breaching another system, and pivoting. The likelihood of either is weighed based on the value of those systems, the data they have, their impact to the org, and stuff like that. Anyone that's going to make any real effort to use a 0day to break into an internet-exposed system, _and then pivot_ isn't going to do so just willy-nilly, they're going to be very particular about who they do that to. They're going to ascertain how much value they can extract from such an action, compared to the value/cost of the means to breach into said ecosystem. Whether it's the value of the 0day they discovered (or bought), vs the value of that 0day (they made) being sold on the black market. Additionally consider, if you have tens to hundreds to thousands of servers, you need to manage them, and have consistent configurations. Naturally that includes things like firewalls, or whatever. And if you're going to just turn firewalls on for everything, that has a tangible cost. A time cost, a complexity cost, a tooling for management cost, etc. And that means you're "spending" that time/cost on those things, instead of other things, and in plenty of cases that "cost" isn't warranted. But yeah, I don't know the value of your systems, or information, what industry you operate in, or anything like that. I have effectively zero insights to gauge the situation, let alone the value proposition of firewalling all the things. I'm more trying to flesh out where it might, and might not, make sense to turn firewalls on for all the Linuxy things. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BloodyIron · 2023-09-30 04:01 Well duh. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- agent-squirrel · 2023-09-30 04:02 You wanted justification for why it’s wise having it switched on. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nagashitw · 2023-09-30 04:06 I had a few issues with k3s on Ubuntu. With Debian has been rock solid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dabamas · 2023-09-30 04:23 Arch (btw). I like that it's rolling release so everything is always the absolute latest version. I can't go back to apt after using pacman. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _PanicattheCostco · 2023-09-30 04:41 I still use Debian at home but mostly RHEL derivatives at work and will be switching to that for more consistency with package management and firewall management. Like it was said in this thread before, managing more applications through docker makes it easier to switch to what distro works best and I think that being without all the canonical and snap bloat is a plus worth switching. But it’s not a huge value add, my Debian servers still work great ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LavaCreeperBOSSB · 2023-09-30 04:47 Ubuntu 22.04 just cause ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gocampy · 2023-09-30 04:52 Remember writing all the disk sets?! That's how I learned dd. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- milennium972 · 2023-09-30 05:00 Kind of guy that expose mariadb smb and vsphere on internet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BloodyIron · 2023-09-30 05:03 No. I wanted to hear why _THEY_ cared. You're clearly not that person. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- agent-squirrel · 2023-09-30 05:04 Wow. Who shat in your cereal? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- haltmich · 2023-09-30 05:17 Rocky isn't going anywhere and it's still 1:1 with RHEL. https://rockylinux.org/news/keeping-open-source-open/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrcaptncrunch · 2023-09-30 05:18 The slower release cycle is not a bad thing. Stable is stable and you don’t get there by not testing things. Having said that, if you don’t need the stability of it, then it might not make sense to use it. To make the point about the slower release cycle, LTS on Ubuntu is 5 years or 10 if you pay. The whole point is not having to upgrade every two years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cerealonmytie · 2023-09-30 05:23 A mix of Debian and Ubuntu Server but moving more toward Debian. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Charming-Molasses-22 · 2023-09-30 05:29 Ubuntu (and also Almalinux) for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crcastle · 2023-09-30 05:36 https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=family-tree ---------------------------------------------------------------------- qfla · 2023-09-30 05:41 apt install firewalld And you can have same firewall application on both systems ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aultl · 2023-09-30 06:01 Void Linux on my desktop and Flatcar Linux for my containers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- enormousaardvark · 2023-09-30 06:05 5. It just works 6. It just works 7. It just works ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe_Isko · 2023-09-30 06:15 Weirdly, I just run stable on my personal laptop. Because it ends up, I only use 5 apps, 4 of them are electron based, and they all have flatpaks. Bookworm's release was nice though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- needadvicebadly · 2023-09-30 06:16 I considered sid for a while, but decided to go with a rolling release distro. I initially tried OpenSuSE and while it was fine, zypper is fricking slooooow. Comping from apt, it was like nails on a chalkboard. So I went with Arch. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- michaelpaoli · 2023-09-30 06:21 I carefully and wisely chose Debian over a quarter century ago. Thus far no regrets on that. And thus far that continues to be what I primarily and mostly run. Most anything else is for testing, or that's what someone else wanted assistance with, or because someone's paying me good money to put up with something that's not Debian. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rahilarious · 2023-09-30 06:25 Fedora because the container stack I use, podman (and it's eco system) isn't packaged nicely and it's outdated even in Debian experimental. And also I think dnf is more polished than apt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- servergeek82 · 2023-09-30 06:26 Bold in the community to say such words lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Morgennebel · 2023-09-30 06:31 https://www.devuan.org - Debian without systemd. I run servers at home and honestly do not care if they require 2-3 or 8 minutes to reboot - I'll grab a coffee while they are rebooting. But I do care about a predictable (not event-based) behaviour based on old-fashioned SysV scripts and I love to have separate programs and separate config files in /etc instead of a Windows-like BLOB called systemd. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- agent-squirrel · 2023-09-30 06:41 Yeah Zypper is slow as shit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-09-30 06:48 The differences in Ubuntu and Debian server are minimal at best, I think to see a difference in performance you need to run very through timing tests, that's nothing you would observe in everyday use. For me it's a decision about the release schedule and update philosophy. I switched to Ubuntu recently because I had moments where software packages in Debian were so outdated that I couldn't have a feature I wanted to have (without compiling the tool from sources), at least if you are running the stable branch of Debian releases. I totally like Debian but they have a very strong focus on stability and security, which for my taste is a bit too much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-09-30 06:52 This does a boot speed analysis which is totally irrelevant in a server system which you reboot every couple of months. We are not talking about an embedded device here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- InsertNounHere88 · 2023-09-30 06:55 I assumed speed (of boot) since that was what OP's other comment implied ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-09-30 06:59 I think OP didn't even analyze boot speeds (as they mention in other comments), the post is based entirely on subjective observations, in short, BS. I don't think there are major measurable performance differences between the major server distributions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- achauv1 · 2023-09-30 07:01 openSUSE Leap, it's European and its package manager is both reliable and fast. It can be difficult to find packages dedicated but in those cases I just fire up a Docker container and compile myself. (unless it is cargo installable) I used Debian Stable at my previous work for 4 years and it was pretty much the same experience too. I tried Tumbleweed on my personal desktop a few months ago but switched to Leap since I don't have any time left for its maintenance (this is also why I don't want to use Ubuntu or Arch). Right now, I have a desktop, rpi4, and work laptop on Leap 15.5, they get security updates, I use containers for bleeding-edge stuff, and my life is simple. My laptop is a Macbook but it's itching me to install Linux on it, though I don't have any interest anymore in maintaining software apart from what I host on my rpi4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- french_violist · 2023-09-30 07:16 Debian. Rock solid. Has most software and sounds software practices. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ECrispy · 2023-09-30 07:18 also this is a great time as Bookworm is newer than Ubuntu LTS and will stay relevant for a long time. Not to mention that you can use Debian sid anyway. Ubuntu is simply a no go due to snaps. I also like distros like DietPi that are based on Debian but make things easier for typical home server usage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nebbiaezanzare · 2023-09-30 07:20 What about microOS? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Worldly-Arm-7731 · 2023-09-30 07:22 What happened with redhat?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sirrkitt · 2023-09-30 07:26 Currently using Arch with the LTS kernel on my server. Primarily because I use ZFS and I've had things get stupid messy and ugly when trying to keep the system updated when you're using ZFS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PuzzleheadedWorld500 · 2023-09-30 07:29 Debian is stable, used by a lot of big corporations also giving back to the community. Debian is excellent as a server usage. There are no breaking changes in the version you decide to install, you have strong security updates following, If you like having the latest version of stuff, then consider adding Docker. I started using it 20+ years ago on my desktop, on servers, on raspberry...and for servers, Debian is still my favorite linux distribution. Just to give you some input about what I've managed in company production as servers during those years: * Debian * Ubuntu Server * RedHat * CentOS * Solaris * FreeBSD * OpenBSD To conclude here on my personal choices: * For servers: Debian * For desktop: Arch Linux * For network devices (routers): FreeBSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thebombuknow · 2023-09-30 07:37 Eyy, a fellow Debian enjoyer. I tried Ubuntu Server, it would nuke itself constantly and required near constant maintenance to keep working properly because auto- updates would break things. Meanwhile, Debian has been running on the same hardware for almost 3 years, and has lived through crashes and power outages like it's nothing. Most recently I updated it to Debian 12 Bookworm, and it's actually become more stable than it was. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kbabioch · 2023-09-30 07:41 Arch Linux all the way! Running my infrastructure almost exclusively on Arch since 10-15 years by now. I like the lightweight approach and the easy packaging. Don't understand why other people don't like rolling distributions. I prefer a little pain every now and then, compared to the big bang with every dist upgrade. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LocalAreaNitwit · 2023-09-30 07:52 It's a meme at this point but I run Arch and it's been more stable and easier to keep up to date than Ubuntu Server. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Croatwink · 2023-09-30 08:01 I'm in the RHEL camp so mostly RHEL, CentOS, CoreOS, Fedora. Depending on the situation. Moving more towards CoreOS because I like the immutable concept, and they only run as container hosts anyways. But have no problem using RHEL privately since it allows up to 16 free systems. I have friends who do the same. I got a long career in Unix/Linux, starting with Mandrake and Red Hat way back in 98, moved quickly through Gentoo, Slackware and landed on FreeBSD for a long time. Actually used mostly Debian at my dayjob until they had me RHEL certified back in 2014 and the trainer convinced me that RHEL was my ecosystem. Now 9 years into it I have no doubt in my mind I made the right decision, and I'll fight you for it (in online debate form). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lockh33d · 2023-09-30 08:06 All my servers and desktops are on Arch. I tried Ubuntu, but every time it was breaking, it was way too difficult/impossible to fix. As a server OS Arch is dead easy and reliable, has any possible and latest Linux software, is maximally lightweight and upgrading to the next "version" dead but end up in total mess necessitating nuke and pave. As a result, my laptop Arch install is now 13+ years old. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tripanafenix · 2023-09-30 08:07 Docker on Fedora ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DynamicResolution · 2023-09-30 08:11 Just curious, how old are you? xD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SurfRedLin · 2023-09-30 08:12 Arch btw ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyber_Encephalon · 2023-09-30 08:14 Very nice, thank you! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AmateursPls · 2023-09-30 08:21 AlmaLinux. The why should be obvious. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- OzzieOxborrow · 2023-09-30 08:30 I'm going to run CoreOS soon, just need to get the hardware. CoreOS with k3s running on it seems like a perfect combination. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ManWithoutUsername · 2023-09-30 08:32 until one month ago 11, now 12 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ManWithoutUsername · 2023-09-30 08:35 Near every change, but the first 3 Added cloudinit by default Added Snap by default Add Netplan when it was not fully functional for a server I need to clean it, it installs a lot of shit ---------------------------------------------------------------------- D0ublek1ll · 2023-09-30 08:38 Debian for everything, its the best recommendation i got almost 10 years ago. I've tried other things but always came back to debian in the end. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bonsailinse · 2023-09-30 08:43 The only time they did actually need three years was in 2002/2005. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bonsailinse · 2023-09-30 08:44 Debians release cycle is two years as well though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reverent · 2023-09-30 08:47 Yeah, was running fedora server for a while but got tired of sweating the 6 monthly server upgrades. Would highly recommend fedora Core OS. Butane/ignition was a bitch of a thing when setting up with btrfs, but I basically don't have to touch the OS layer anymore. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BigGucciThanos · 2023-09-30 08:52 CentOS. Use Redhat at work and know if there’s a problem, 99.9 percent sure the answer will be online. I do it for the support at the end of the day ---------------------------------------------------------------------- not_logan · 2023-09-30 08:53 Same here. Started with 4.0. Debian and FreeBSD are my favorite. Both of them are examples of stability and good design ---------------------------------------------------------------------- not_logan · 2023-09-30 08:53 There are plenty of 3rd-party repos. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mirokra · 2023-09-30 08:57 NixOS's declarative approach to system setup is great. The configuration is the documentation of what the system should do. Separately written documentation, for imperatively configured systems, tends to get out of sync with reality. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SecurityOnSteroids · 2023-09-30 08:57 Whats with NixOS? Is it better than Debian? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lidstah · 2023-09-30 08:59 On the desktop/laptop side, Debian for everything here except one laptop (pop_os, just because I wanted to test it). Debian stable+flatpak for stuff like Firefox/Chromium/VSCodium/Steam and such is quite good nowadays. No need to fiddle with backports or unofficial repositories, at least for what I need to do. YMMV, of course. And for the really specific stuff not available in Debian repositories, podman+distrobox does a good job. The only thing I still manually compile and install is StumpWM. Server side, it's a mix of Debian (I count proxmox as Debian, as it is actually debian-based), alpine and talos linux (kubernetes). At work it's full Debian (and proxmox), with the exception of talos linux for our kubernetes cluster. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SecurityOnSteroids · 2023-09-30 09:04 ☠️☠️☠️ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bonsailinse · 2023-09-30 09:08 If you run tens to hundreds to thousands of servers you will most likely not manage firewalls on each of them individually. So no, there is absolutely no reason not to use a firewall solution for your internal network as well. One compromised system and the intruder can either work on elevating their access or just get stopped by a firewall. We regularly run the theoretical event of someone sitting in his car in out parking lot and using our wifi as an attack vector. Having a firewall makes this scenario way less scary in an instant and configuration uses like an hour of manpower per week or so. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- siikanen · 2023-09-30 09:11 +1 for microos. I'd love to hear if anybody has experience with it ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Asyx · 2023-09-30 09:31 With ZFS being such a mess on Linux (compared to FreeBSD), the fact that Debian usually comes with quite old packages is almost a blessing. Like, you'll never run into the issue that you're being hit with a regression regarding the ZFS driver since they're not in tree. Your kernel version will always be supported by the ZFS driver. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Changarh · 2023-09-30 09:40 /u/SecurityOnSteroids in addition to above * An update creates a new generation. You can boot to any old generation of system from your bootloader. * You can run incompatible versions of software together. All binaries are under /nix/store * If you use it for selfhosting, a setting in nginx config - "forceSSL = true" automatically gets Let's Encrypt certificates signed and schedules their renewal. There are nicities like this everywhere. * NixOS has more packages than any other distro [https://discourse.nixos.org/t/should-i-use-nix- os/29215/4](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/should-i-use-nix-os/29215/4) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- snk0752 · 2023-09-30 09:42 Lfs. Built own build/repo environment to support mostly all barebone devices inside my house infrastructure. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Changarh · 2023-09-30 09:47 I'm a bit uncomfortable with the time I take to fix an issue on NixOS. I first have to go through the nix way of doing things before solving the actual issue. I've been running my archlinux laptop for 8 years now. I've had kernel bugs where wifi driver would leak memory - but I was able to point those to the developer and get it fixed. I don't have that level of comfort with NixOS yet. I might give up on issues while untangling myself from Nix. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- frogotme · 2023-09-30 09:58 unRaid, just want something that could probably outlive me without any maintenance, short of the drives failing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lagor31 · 2023-09-30 10:10 FreeBSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dogeek · 2023-09-30 10:19 Used to run TrueNAS Scale, which is a distro of Debian with ZFS preinstalled, a web portal to administrate the server, and k3s installed for self hosting apps. In the end, I'm moving over to a bare debian 12 install, with kubeadm for kubernetes management, a manual install of ZFS, and NFS server for sharing over the network (Samba is nice for compatibility with multiple operating systems, but in the end I don't think I'll drop in files over to that server using Samba, but will rather use my self hosted stack / MinIO, and NFS integrates well with kube) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill_Guarnere · 2023-09-30 10:30 I'm using Debian on my RPi 4 (which is my selfhost server), but previously I did the same with other ARM board I used as home server (the 1st RPi, then Banana PI). The reason is simple, as a sysadmin I always worked on RedHat based distros (RHEL, CentOS, Oracle, Amazon Linux) and I would like to get some practice on Debian based distros. Basically it's the same and there are some minor differences but I always found those differences quite annoying. 1. the Debian tendency to use symlinks to use some config files (think about apache sites-available vs sites-enabled directories) 2. the Debian tendency to split sw in different paths (for example config in /etc/XYZ, data in /var/XYZ, etc etc...) 3. apt vs yum/dnf, imho yum/dnf are simple to use and are much more reliable when there are conflicts or rollbacks to do and in general they have more features than apt. 4. unattended upgrades vs yum-cron, the 2nd one is much more reliable and simple to use 5. in general RHEL distros have much more reliable 3rd party repositories for yum/dnf ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cbunn81 · 2023-09-30 10:51 FreeBSD for my NAS, server and router (pfSense). Reasons: * First-class ZFS support, including boot environments * Great documentation and knowledgable community * Easy system upgrades * More logical filesystem structure * Better performance and security out-of-the-box ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TBT_TBT · 2023-09-30 10:55 Debian for the last 20 years. Ubuntu is just another flavor of Debian. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MegaVolti · 2023-09-30 11:13 I did try it, but didn't like it very much. It was too opinionated for my taste - I want to setup my snapshots/backups the way I want, I want at least the option to run things bare metal (at least stuff like Wireguard) or VMs without any hassle. I like the idea of microOS but ultimately (in direct comparison with Tumbleweed) it was just more complicated and annoying than useful. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cylian91460 · 2023-09-30 11:20 Arch because I want git versions and the AUR has many of them ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vikymonkey · 2023-09-30 11:22 Alma linux 8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eRIZpl · 2023-09-30 11:22 And eventually problematic. There're cases when MUSL is making more problems than saves. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- trancekat · 2023-09-30 11:24 I've been fortunate that I haven't run into anything significant. I've been running my alone servers for 3 years. I'm also not an advanced user, so purhaps I'm just not doing enough to run into the issues a power user might. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NekoiNemo · 2023-09-30 11:24 Arch, because i don't want to memorise how to use two different distros, or look up "how do i __ in Debian" every time i need to do something on my servers. Plus havign AUR is nice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ComprehensiveLuck125 · 2023-09-30 12:08 QubeOS with Debian ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nondv · 2023-09-30 12:29 out of curiosity, what's so special about their design? And how would Ubuntu differ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wzzrd · 2023-09-30 12:50 Free RHEL9 subs on my Raspberry Pi’s. Guaranteed API stability, 10 years of support, and stable af. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- originalodz · 2023-09-30 12:51 Servers run Alma. Been a happy camper for over a year now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- siikanen · 2023-09-30 12:57 Thank you for replying! I don't know what's your user case here but I feel like microos is more intended as base is for kubernetes than anything else. There the last thing you want is some rando backup service running on the host os, etc. You want to control everything through the kubernetes control plane. This makes managing the cluster somewhat "less complicated" since the bare os under each node is immutable. You may even just boot the nodes from network and have them join the cluster dynamically. If iI haveunderstood correctly, microos can even coordinate itself to automatically update nodes without causing any downtime to the workloads running on the cluster. There are other options available such as Talos which kinda have the same goal in mind - being stable base to run kubernetes on ---------------------------------------------------------------------- samishal · 2023-09-30 13:09 Ubuntu, it's the one I know best and have had the best experience with. I know it's boring but I want my setup to be as pain free as possible ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CodenameJackal · 2023-09-30 13:12 Windows Server on bare metal with Hyper-V running my VMs. Mostly unbuntu server editions, opensuse, and windows as guests. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lukistellar · 2023-09-30 13:17 CentOS Stream since the SELinux is implemented by default, and the update cycle is kinda rolling. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dlbpeon · 2023-09-30 13:24 In otherworlds, using Debian but want to use Debian without Systemd. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dlbpeon · 2023-09-30 13:25 I don't believe it, btw. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- akamuraaa · 2023-09-30 13:28 yea, but its preinstalled on most rpm based systems ---------------------------------------------------------------------- akamuraaa · 2023-09-30 13:28 for me its just easier to use in general, also it looks better :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- prone-to-drift · 2023-09-30 13:40 Oh ye of little faith! I mean, its not god, I can just, uh, provide reasonable output to prove it? ``` $ cat /etc/os-release | grep "PRETTY_NAME" && echo "$(docker ps | wc -l) docker containers running" && date PRETTY_NAME="Arch Linux" 12 docker containers running Sat Sep 30 07:08:43 PM IST 2023 ``` ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dlbpeon · 2023-09-30 13:44 Get that PhotoShoped image outta here! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-09-30 13:50 It's way different in operation. You define your system in a config file, and the package manager makes sure you get what you defined. You don't run commands to get to your desired goal, you just define your goal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- djzrbz · 2023-09-30 13:51 Fedora, better Podman support which IMHO is better than Docker, albeit sometimes more complex to get operational. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-09-30 13:53 Kernel live patching because we're big companies here that cant afford a second of downtime! Sorry, kidding, but even big companies only need it for a very limited amount of systems anymore, because redundancy makes it very possible to just restart one at a time and have a slightly degraded system for a few minutes instead. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-09-30 13:55 Or hell, yum before the dnf rewrite on EL OS, like Centos or such. God was that slow. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-09-30 13:57 Oh hell I remember that too. Cisco IOS command line config was wild. And for anyone else reading, yes, they called it IOS before Apple ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-09-30 14:00 The whole centos, alma, etc situation since RHEL went full dick mode is grating... I mean it was shitty before. RHEL would sometimes just not release patches for Centos, we sat on an XFS bug for years at one point and RHEL has it fixed for years in their custom ass kernel that wasnt even kernel.org LTS, but just literally never propagated it to CentOS while our important server was crashing every two weeks or so. We don't have the kinda money for RHEL enterprise.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-09-30 14:02 What annoys me a little here is that so many programs should work just fine on BSD, but simply don't because of some hardcoded weirdness that should not be like that if it were actually POSIX compliant and not Linux quirked POSIX compliant. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-09-30 14:05 The before systemd times were simpler, but more janky. After systemd became a thing, suddenly the traditional inits became less and less jank lmao. OpenRC is cool! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- skc5 · 2023-09-30 14:05 IMO the use case of livepatching is to get CVEs patched in a timely manner, instead of having to negotiate and wait for maintenance windows. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- root-node · 2023-09-30 14:07 Mint for my laptops, ubuntu for my VMs, but thinking of moving to debian server or something else. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cute_machines · 2023-09-30 14:08 Since some years I run Debian on the testing repo with weekly auto updates enabled and daily auto backups of Docker volumes to cloud storage. Only Docker is installed to run some services that are used by a small group of ppl. So it is not extremely critical when some service is down. But tbf, I've not experienced any problems due to auto updates. A while back I was already interested in trying NixOS as a server but haven't found the time yet. What are the pros and the cons compared to Debian? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Grung · 2023-09-30 14:11 I've run debian on my home servers for over 20 years. Started because they had highest standards and the best QA process. I've never been disappointed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-09-30 14:13 Speaking of which, you don't actually need Ubuntu pro for that, but it probably helps that theres a team authoring and testing patches nontheless. For Arch there's an AUR package for it for example https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Kernel_live_patching ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cbunn81 · 2023-09-30 14:15 What programs are you thinking of? The main issues I've encountered have to do with applications developed using .NET Core, which isn't well supported on FreeBSD. Also, neither FreeBSD nor Linux are fully POSIX-compliant, so I'm not sure what you're looking for there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wllew4 · 2023-09-30 14:25 I use Fedora 38. I’ve run into issues with the kernel being too new, specifically with ZFS, but aside from that it works great. Cockpit is a very nice feature. I mainly switched from Ubuntu because I wanted to try something new though. Wouldn’t recommend for any critical systems lol. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- untitledmillennial · 2023-09-30 14:27 If you want to make zypper feel faster, try Fedora for a while. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cakee_ru · 2023-09-30 14:32 I'm in ostree gang. containers FTW! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kastmada · 2023-09-30 14:36 For servers Debian only! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- isThisRight-- · 2023-09-30 14:39 Ubuntu because… it just works, like most other distorts. Great documentation and community support. Ansible because well, I don’t like doing the same thing twice. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- unistirin · 2023-09-30 14:50 I keep myself updated by using Archlinux for everyday operations. Dor my servers, it is Ubuntu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- string-user-equals · 2023-09-30 14:56 Yea, there’s a lot of weirdness in these responses. Calling a remediation a recovery is weird. Maybe a containment or response, but I’ve never heard a professional call it a recovery. And I’ve never heard of the title “head of IT security” CIO, CISO,(manager/director/vp/etc) of information systems,(manager/director/vp/etc) of information systems security. Sure. Maybe one job has a weird title, but two? Hmm Also strange is someone in one of those positions treating windows vs linux differenly is very odd and would be really hard to justify to auditors. And if nothing else expecting someone who may have a higher than normal risk profile to explain exactly how and why is super weird. Finally, generally anyone who’s claiming to be running tens of thousands of servers is either working at a FAANG or is full of shit. endpoints? Maybe. But servers probably not. Individually, whatever. But put together, I seriously doubt this person is a professional in information systems. Or at minimum someone has had to deal with any kind of auditor. At any rate, my team does actually manage hundreds of servers and you are absolutely right. Automation is key here. If you have a problem with your config you update your playbook or GPO (or whatever your automation tool calls it), test it in a sandbox and start rolling it. No one should be managing more than a handful of servers manually. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- woemoejack · 2023-09-30 14:58 windows server 2019.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FierceDeity_ · 2023-09-30 15:22 My last example was LibreOffice Online. It has the motions but I lost patience trying to get it to work, I forgot what it was, but it was code. They used some symbols that only exist on Linux, but my C experience is too small to tell what to insert for BSD compat. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr_Monty · 2023-09-30 15:25 I’m a noob and running Ubuntu means most tutorials I can find online mostly just work, I don’t have to fight trying to follow instructions but at each step figure out why things aren’t working because a lightweight OS is either missing things or has moved/renamed things or runs on a completely different framework. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xtag · 2023-09-30 15:27 I am using Arch for a server too. Got a couple of QEMU containers for Home Assistant and Pi-Hole and some dockerized things for Plex, Nextcloud, and other randoms. Running for only a year without issue so far. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Spuxilet · 2023-09-30 15:49 Arch linux. Much lighter then debian. Much newer then debian. Much easier then debian. It's main priority is simplicity. As a host for my docker services i do not need anything other then base system + docker. If one needs uptime to be as long as possible one would use LTS kernel on it. That's what i am doing. If by stable you mean not breaking on updates, it is as stable as debian or cent os. But if you mean that software versions do not change for looong time, of course not. Arch is a bleeding edge and it has an updates almost every day. But they are exactly why i use it. In about 8 years of using it on my laptop i have never seen updates breaking something. But i have seen many vulnerabilities discovered in recent years, so updates are always wellcome :))) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- npsimons · 2023-09-30 15:51 Debian for everything I possibly can. Only exceptions are OpenWRT for the WiFi, and HestiaPi for the thermostat. I've been running Debian for both end user (desktop, portable) and servers for decades. It's just rock solid and can be very trimmed down, but at the same time the just gobs of packages it has available are amazing. The first thing I do when I hear about a new piece of software is `apt-cache search ${pkg}` and I'm not often disappointed. Often, if it's not there, that means it's not stable or mature enough anyway, or there are licensing issues (another version of not mature enough) I don't want to deal with. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- npsimons · 2023-09-30 15:56 > Weirdly, I just run stable on my personal laptop. Because it ends up, I only use 5 apps, 4 of them are electron based, and they all have flatpaks. Same, but it's Emacs for me, for pretty much everything. And a whole bunch of things are packaged in Debian under the `elpa-` prefixed packages. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Brilliant_Sound_5565 · 2023-09-30 15:59 Same here, I run deb stable on my servers though ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BrenekH · 2023-09-30 16:00 They closed off free public access to their source code for their packages. If you aren't paying for RHEL, you aren't supposed to have access to the source either. Since Rocky basically just rebuilds RHEL and releases it for anyone to use, they got screwed for a bit, but I think they've found ways to get around Red Hat. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- skc5 · 2023-09-30 16:08 Yup you’re right. Kpatch, ksplice, kgraft, all the same stuff. Livepatch is integrated well and automated, works great. Even lets you know which patches are applied. I think it makes the least amount of sense to use on arch because it follows upstream so closely (and because arch isn’t a really good server platform). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- froli · 2023-09-30 16:13 That's a perfect example to make the point of stable distros. People assume stable means it doesn't break but it means things don't change. ...which has the added benefit of being less likely to break because of it. It's all about the equilibrium between upgrades and regressions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- buttstuff2023 · 2023-09-30 16:29 I have VMs on Debian, Ubuntu, RHEL, Arch, Fedora, and probably some else I'm forgetting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nullmeta · 2023-09-30 16:50 So I run a mixture of everything, I really should consider consolidating but I have servers running Debian, Ubuntu server, centos stream 8/9, openSUSE leap, and freebsd. I have workstations running macOS, windows, fedora, and openSUSE TW. I guess I haven’t found that one OS to rule them all for me. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HoytAvila · 2023-09-30 16:58 Wow, I… I think I like it. So if I store this config and copy it to a new server, will I get the same “state” as the first server? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GolemancerVekk · 2023-09-30 17:01 Like OP said, if you need a bit of diversity on the host then CoreOS/Flatcar won't cut it. It's hyper-optimized for container approach only. Probably a bit too much for the average self-hoster. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vizolover · 2023-09-30 17:04 I can also comment on not having any problems with my alpine home server. If it wasn't for the whole muslc is bad conundrum, I would have not realized that Alpine uses it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- draxema · 2023-09-30 17:11 NixOS and an old machine running Unraid that I will probably migrate to NixOS when I have the time. Declarative and reproducible OS is a godsend. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MidnightMateor · 2023-09-30 17:19 I use Fedora at on my server. Used to use CentOS before they nuked it. Use RHEL and Oracle Linux at work, so don't really want to use a Debian-based distro at home. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- whattteva · 2023-09-30 17:34 FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- roytay · 2023-09-30 17:39 Servers and workstations are Ubuntu at work. Containers are whatever -- sometimes we have to use something in the RedHat family for the container deliveries. At home, Ubuntu VMs on Proxmox. I moved one VM to Debian when Snap pissed me off. But I haven't gone further... I'd like to try NixOS, but I've never gone beyond reading about it -- the learning curve scares me off. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Evantaur · 2023-09-30 17:43 Proxmox (based on debian btw) because that way i can have debian running on debian while also running debian ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe_Isko · 2023-09-30 17:49 Yeah, the only thing I got burned by was that there was no backcourt for a recent version of podmab on 11. I didn't need it for anything serious, but it was quite the letdown. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- neon5k · 2023-09-30 18:03 How different is Debian compared to Ubuntu server? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cjchico · 2023-09-30 18:04 Less tools and bloat bundled with it, more stable, not bleeding edge. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cjchico · 2023-09-30 18:04 I've heard a lot of good things about NixOS, maybe I should give it a try! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cjchico · 2023-09-30 18:06 I love Arch, but never thought about using it as a server OS. How do you manage updates? I tend to leave my VM's on auto updates and every month or so I'll go in and manually update or reboot for a new kernel. With Arch I'd be worried about waiting an entire month between updates. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- webofunni · 2023-09-30 18:09 I think Debian has the most packages on the system repo. Most of RPM- based distro's I used need adding 3rd party repo's and mostly fall into dependency issues. I have been using Deb/ubuntu for many years now. Not sure if things changed with RPM distros now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bonsailinse · 2023-09-30 18:11 Thanks, that was very refreshing to read. I also may add: if I tell either my boss or the "head of IT security" (which we don’t have, we all care about security, guess that would be my boss as well then) that I value my time more than the security of our infrastructure I could look for another job tomorrow. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Spuxilet · 2023-09-30 18:13 Easy i just update whenever i want or there is a need for it example some vulnerability was discovered hence the need for intel-ucode package to update. I run LTS kernel and it updates rarely so need for reboot is rare. One can even ignore kernel updates for 3 month and just update it manually once in a 3 month. Other then that my system is pretty much base install very small amount of packages. It updates in less then a minute. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- neon5k · 2023-09-30 18:16 What made you move away from Rocky? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cjchico · 2023-09-30 18:19 I was more comfortable using a Debian based OS, and there's no guarantee that Rocky and Alma will be able to continue for the next 5 years. Fingers crossed, though, those people put in some amazing work. I may spin up a free subscription RHEL just to learn it more, but we'll see. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DuckyBlender · 2023-09-30 18:24 For me just the idle fan speed says it all. On Ubuntu server I could hear the fans on my laptop non stop, on Debian it’s off most of the time ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheAllegedGenius · 2023-09-30 19:13 I'm using Arch. Mostly because I knew I was going to run Docker containers and would use the server headless. In that case, it doesn't really matter what OS you pick. Not even installing a GUI makes the OS lighter though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TinyMicron · 2023-09-30 19:19 In principle, yes. But some system specifics in `hardware- configuration.nix` might need to change. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TinyMicron · 2023-09-30 19:20 I love the the fact that my configuration is self-describing. If I need to remember how something was setup, I just read the code that describes what I wanted it to do. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TinyMicron · 2023-09-30 19:21 It's very different, and the learning curve is quite steep even if you're seasoned in Linux. But in my opinion it's worth it. I think other distributions should take a hint from NixOS in general. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ArmEveryCitizen · 2023-09-30 19:23 I've always hated Debian. I've pretty well always ran Arch, Gentoo before that existed, and OpenBSD. I also refuse to use Docker and instead favor KVM virtual machines. I don't trust random docker images and don't have time to manually validate them all ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MITstudent · 2023-09-30 20:19 Dylan, Dylan. Dylan-dylan-dylan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lankgren · 2023-09-30 21:38 Thank you for the info, I hadn't heard any of this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cedriking · 2023-09-30 22:04 Ubuntu. Because I've always used Ubuntu and never had a problem with my servers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- temitcha · 2023-09-30 22:09 For musl defense, it seems the issue with musl is not its fault directly, but more that it's not glibc haha! So many software are built only with glibc in mind. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ItalyPaleAle · 2023-09-30 22:36 The problem I have with the fedora’s is the lack of ZFA support. I know they have BTRFS, and I know it’s not _that_ dangerous as it was in the past, but I’m very happy with it. > By the way if your hardware is Intel, have you tried Clear Linux? For containerized workloads that should be great too. (Still doesn’t have ZFS support) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ItalyPaleAle · 2023-09-30 22:39 Been using Debian exclusively for years, on all servers. It just works, it’s very stable, there’s lots of knowledge on how to do things with Debian (docs, tutorials, etc), has ZFS support, and docker runs great on it. (Sadly, I wish podman ran as well) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hmoff · 2023-09-30 22:44 Can you elaborate on the file system layout and security out of the box points? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Stephonovich · 2023-09-30 23:56 If you're running >1 server, you should be managing their configs with a config management tool. The cognitive load is no higher to manage 10,000 than it is to manage 1. Everything in IaC. Everything. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FeedSilver9062 · 2023-10-01 01:32 Proxmox which is Debian soooo. My containers and vms are a mix, but mostly Debian. I used to use Ubuntu but decided proxmox works and would be more flexible for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Heas_Heartfire · 2023-10-01 01:43 I use Ubuntu server because... I don't really know any better and it just works. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- alexthattalks · 2023-10-01 02:39 Well said. I’ll put money on you in that fight ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HumbertFG · 2023-10-01 02:45 Super crumbly and ancient. I'm surprised my hips haven't fallen off. :) But lemme just say: My parents bought me a ZX Spectrum for Christmas once when I was a kid. That was an 8-bit machine, sporting a massive 16k RAM. 0\_o ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pivotpixels · 2023-10-01 02:59 Debian ftw. I don't there there's a better documented and more reliable linux based os. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- StewedAngelSkins · 2023-10-01 03:34 tbh i was under the impression that the average self-hoster just dumps a bunch of dockerhub images on a raspberry pi and calls it a day lol. flatcar is perfect for that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- StewedAngelSkins · 2023-10-01 03:41 agreed. butane/ignition docs are not great. you have to kind of piece things together from fragments of old coreos + flatcar + redhat/fedora coreos docs. fortunately the butane yaml schema is not actually that complicated. have you used [matchbox](https://matchbox.psdn.io/)? it's pretty incredible if you're going the full netboot route with flatcar. turns your servers into proper cattle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DynamicResolution · 2023-10-01 05:28 You must have witnessed the whole progress of computer evolution, from 8 bit machines to the era of AI and quantum computing. This must be amazing! how does it feel? what are your thoughts about current technologies? I believe I will find myself in a similar position in the future, will be talking how my parents bought me the newest windows XP computer and how cool I was haha ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This-Gene1183 · 2023-10-01 06:27 I know big dog, I know. But I just like apt too much to give it up. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HumbertFG · 2023-10-01 06:50 Sure. I actually did my degree in 'Artificial Intelligence' - back in the early 90's. :P It wasn't anything like how it is today, mind - programming in LISP and Prolog and so languages that are now long dead and buried, and I don't actually work in that field, but I \*do\* keep tabs on current advancements. I spent a while 'helping to build the internet' - which is sounds more exciting than it is - and then a whole bunch more time doing the kinds of things you'd find in self-hosting, but.. for corps. These days? I'm tired... While things have always moved fast in IT, the last 5 or so years, with the rise of containers, and kubernetes and 'data things' - there's \*way\* more to learn than one person can fit in their head. You could spend all day learning web servers, containers, airflow, helm, zabbix, all the +cloud things - not to mention the languages: C, C++, C#, Java, and Python, and so on, and never have time to actually \*do\* anything. I \*do\* also enjoy - in my spare time, being creative. 3D modelling has grown leaps and bounds, and I got into 3D printing and those awesome light show things you see on people's houses at Halloween / Christmas time. Again though - it's alot of work. It's still very much ground level, with the need to know how to solder things and assemble controllers and electronics stuff - which.. Well? I grew up with! AI things like midjourney and ChatGPT? They're kind of cool. Alot overhyped. They're still not \*actually\* AI though. I've given up on trying to tell people why. And I suppose like Mr C Clarke once said 'Any form of science sufficiently advanced will appear as magic to a lesser civilisation" Soo.. Magic. I have a cute little Stable-Diffusion setup on my desktop PC that I can play around with to make gift card pictures, and 3D lithophanes and dinky little gifts for family and friends - which is fun. But.. ultimately? I'm kind of done... The Corps took over. Everything's an App. Download this, App that.. consumerize the hell out of everything. It's bewildering and disgusting. No-one \*understands\* what they're doing - except for the few who 'make' the things, and even then they're just bolting together various frameworks and meta-things to get something out. That leads to little thought about WHAT they are doing, and I'm seeing the dumbification of a whole generation ahead. But.. it's okay. Soon enough I'll be sittin' on my porch, sippin' my tea and it'll all be in your hands. And I'll be telling the teenagers to keep off my lawn ( except on Halloween when they're more than welcome to trample over everything and dance infront of the blinky lights :P ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- shaving_minion · 2023-10-01 07:04 I use Debian 12 on my laptop, i have no servers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pablogmz · 2023-10-01 07:12 What do you guys think about Amethyst? The AUR helper and Pacman wrapper developed by Crystal Linux team? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mirokra · 2023-10-01 07:14 It's mostly a different mindset. In NixOS, admin gives it a recipe (configuration), and NixOS builds the system based on it. In traditional imperative systems, admin is baking system with commands and configs edits, one by one, manually. Though, there are tools to have "recipes" for traditional linux distros, but those tools are still working with mutable system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Olof_Lagerkvist · 2023-10-01 09:06 FreeBSD. For historical reasons mostly, but it is running fine and efficient and most things get ported to FreeBSD anyway these days. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- schmurfy2 · 2023-10-01 09:44 I love and use Arch Linus too, they strike the perfect balance between stable but old software and new with the ability to build from sources when needed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eRIZpl · 2023-10-01 10:27 All the issues is a matter of time, tho: https://www.reddit.com/r/kube rnetes/comments/11kb8wy/why\_i\_will\_never\_use\_alpine\_linux\_ever\ _again/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aztracker1 · 2023-10-01 12:25 Ubuntu server. Mostly in that it saves me about half an hour of tinkering with various configurations. Sudo, ppk ssh only, etc. It even imports my public key for me on install. 90% of what I run is in Docker/containers... so I'd likely be fine with a more stripped down host. The setup time is the biggest difference IMO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KnifeFed · 2023-10-01 12:27 Slackware, because of Unraid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dev01d · 2023-10-01 13:52 Testing my Pi4 with MicroOS with k0s on top and it’s amazing so far. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dev01d · 2023-10-01 14:06 That is exactly what I’m using it for. A single node k0s cluster on a Pi4 running Blocky and a Librespeed. If you bootstrap it with Combustion it boots ready to use with sane defaults and just gets out of your way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- outkastblast · 2023-10-01 14:58 **Home server**: Unraid, because I'm a newb still **VPS 1 & 2**: Ubuntu 20.04 because that was all that fit into the hardware specs on offer from Racknerd. They do have Debian but it said it needed 2GB of RAM, IIRC. I did try Ubuntu 22.04 and that went badly. To be fair, they *did* warn that it should have 2GB+. **Pi 1 & 2**: RaspbianOS, so that's as close as I get to Debian atm **New desktop gaming PC**: Pop!_OS because it looks neat and isn't at all like Windows, which I'm happy about. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cbunn81 · 2023-10-01 15:03 For the file system layout, there's a difference in what Linux distros and FreeBSD consider "system" vs "local". For Linux, it seems like everything that is included by default in a distro will be considered part of the system, and then only tools installed by the user will go to `/usr/local/`. FreeBSD, on the other hand, considers anything outside of the base system to be "third party" and is located in `/usr/local/`. The latter appeals to my own sensibilities more. As for security, because FreeBSD is a complete OS, rather than a kernel packaged up in one of any number of distros, there's more control over that system as a whole. This control creates more stability in the codebase which leads to it being less susceptible to attacks (consider the vulnerability statistics of [FreeBSD](https://www.cvedetails.com/vendor/6/Freebsd.html) vs [Linux](https://www.cvedetails.com/product/47/Linux-Linux- Kernel.html?vendor_id=33)). It's also worth noting that [the man in charge of the Linux kernel doesn't seem to be very interested in security](https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/business/2015/11/05/net- of-insecurity-the-kernel-of-the-argument/). Depending on the distro, there can be a fair amount of bloat packaged by default, while FreeBSD only includes the base install by default. Of course, a distro that is more bare-bones like Arch or Slackware would comparable. And then there's the fact that with a smaller user base, FreeBSD is less of a target for attacks than Linux, in the same way that Linux is vs Windows. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- chrishoage · 2023-10-01 15:14 I personally use [paru](https://github.com/Morganamilo/paru). I've not heard of Amethyst I'll give it a look! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- siikanen · 2023-10-01 16:21 Nice! Have you faced any comparability issues with microos? How does one handle host based CSI like Longhorn with microos? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AlexFullmoon · 2023-10-01 17:22 Home server: Xpenology. Mainly because of really nice and straightforward web UI — don't want to bother with RAID setup of configuring Samba. Hosting-based server and basically everything else: Debian. Well- known, stable, works, support everything out there. From time to time I try to use something from RPM side, like Alma, but its default network/firewall config is... difficult. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PermissionTricky6026 · 2023-10-01 17:51 Arch + nix ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DynamicResolution · 2023-10-01 19:48 I could listen to you all day xD seriously, I wish my grandpa was a computer geek with a garage full of stuff to show and teach me about the history and the way he thinks. I understand your perspective about the dumbification of the generation ahead, I was thinking about it too, is it good or is it bad. I would like to share my thought on this. As you mentioned, there is way more to learn than one person can fit in their head, you cant specialize in many topics. Hence you will see more layers of abstraction being added over time, making it easier for the people to use the newer technologies without having a clue of how it is working. You will find more specialists in the narrow topics of IT, they can durther develop and advance the technology and facilitate its integration so that others can use it to achieve their goals and benefit from it. So, my conclusion was that it is a good thing, it is actually an evolution rather than dumbification, the way of doing things has changed, people now can achieve more by being generalists that know the available tools and how to use them to achieve their goals. I can only imagine what the world is going to be in 5-10 years. This is absolutely crazy. I am in my 20s but I am having hard time to keep up with all this lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hmoff · 2023-10-02 04:11 Fair enough. The linux standard (Filesystem Hierarchy Standard) reserves /usr/local for system administrator stuff, /opt for third party/vendor packages, and the rest for distribution-provided packages. [https://refspecs.lin uxfoundation.org/FHS\_3.0/fhs/index.html](https://refspecs.linuxfounda tion.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/index.html) . This makes more sense to me than putting distribution-provided software in /usr/local. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- allebb · 2023-10-02 10:08 Whilst I pretty much had been running Ubuntu Server for almost 20 years (since Hoary Hedgehog) for hosting various things (mainly Web applications, Databases and even some game servers), earlier this year, I got sick of the amount of crap that comes with Ubuntu releases now and the snap stuff too and therefore made the jump to Debian I also run a fair amount of Proxmox and TrueNAS Scale servers too (both use and choose Debian as their base distro). I'm happy with my decision and believe that Debian is a fantastic and solid choice; I would highly recommend if you are thinking of leaving Ubuntu too and/or considering the jump from RHEL-based distros over to the Debian/APT distros :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheMcRibReturneth · 2023-10-02 13:49 Ubuntu, because I can't be fucked to change my existing landscape. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cyborg-waffle-iron · 2023-10-02 16:27 Ubuntu. It was my first introduction to Linux and I've stuck with it since. Might switch to Nix at some point though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- draxema · 2023-10-02 18:58 I recommend it! Just know that it's a different paradigm and the path to understand it well enough to know what the hell is going on is a bit rough, but I think the doc is a lot better now since I learned Nix. Also don't rush it, it takes time just like the first time you learned to use linux. You can play around with just the Nix cli and you don't need to go full NixOS to learn how nix works. Home-manager can be a comprise while you learn Feel free to ask on the discourse, matrix or even dm me if you need help! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- techn0mad · 2023-10-03 13:08 https://runbsd.info/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- widowhanzo · 2023-10-03 16:44 When I SSH into my ubuntu server, under the networking config there's a little ad (only text) as MOTD, for example: * Strictly confined Kubernetes makes edge and IoT secure. Learn how MicroK8s just raised the bar for easy, resilient and secure K8s cluster deployment. https://ubuntu.com/engage/secure-kubernetes-at-the-edge Expanded Security Maintenance for Applications is not enabled. I don't even notice it, because I just start typing commands anyway. And there are ways to disable it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- widowhanzo · 2023-10-03 16:46 How does a server OS feel bloated? It's just a command line... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sumpug · 2023-10-03 23:51 RHEL because I have to work with Oracle Linux a lot as is and old habits die hard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jake_schurch · 2023-10-04 03:15 Nix / nixos. Cannot go back, it just works. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- InfaSyn · 2023-10-10 09:41 Debian, obviously. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NegativeK · 2023-10-21 21:49 > If you aren't paying for RHEL, you aren't supposed to have access to the source It's a little messier -- the only thing that happens is that if you pay for a license and share the source code, they'll cancel your contract. Your right to copy the source and share it is legally protected, but they reserve the right to fire customers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NegativeK · 2023-10-21 21:50 Debian's stable release is updated as frequently as Ubuntu's LTS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reddittookmyuser · 2023-10-21 22:08 But not the package versions.