Cost-Effective home server solutions for running multiple applications and VMs? reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Feuerstern · 2023-09-28 13:48 I'm looking for a server to run a few applications at home. Ideally, I would like to use virtualization and run multiple systems on a single device. One of these VMs should run Homeassistant OS, for example, and on another one, a system where I can run Discord bots and other small scripts. It's particularly important to me that the system doesn't consume too much energy, and it would be useful, though not necessarily required, to be able to connect and mirror 2 SSDs. The Raspberry Pi 4 seems a bit underpowered for this purpose. Does anyone have an idea of a cost-effective system that meets these requirements? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RuaidhriM · 2023-09-28 13:55 You can run HA in docker. And a Pi4 is very good. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-09-28 13:59 Intel NUC, second-hand, very low power comsumption. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- puppetjazz · 2023-09-28 14:19 Pi5 was just announced. Intel NUC (and similar) have served me well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jadonson · 2023-09-28 14:20 grab a cheap HP elitedesk or similar SFF PC with enough RAM/storage for your needs. Install Proxmox VE and go wild. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- justahobby20 · 2023-09-28 14:22 An n100 mini pc would be fine for a couple VMs, but for the same price you could get a used i5-8500 prodesk on ebay. It would be significantly bigger but also give you 2 additional cores, provides pcie slots, room for HDDs, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fedroxx · 2023-09-28 14:53 Don't use pi for your ha unless you have a lot of experience with pis as some have suggested. You'll regret it. Nuc with a hypervisor is a much smarter path. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- paschty · 2023-09-28 14:56 Asrock J Series is nice, its a mini itx with on board processor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Feuerstern · 2023-09-28 15:20 I have running HomeAssistant OS (supervised) on my raspberry pi 4 since a year now. It works very well and without any trouble so far. Adding modules are very flaweless. But the RP4 seems a bit unchallenged, still a lot resources free. But within the Homeassistant OS I don't have enough freedom to run more projects on it. That's why I'm looking for a system which supports virtualisation to get the benefitts of Homeassistant OS, but still can run more projects. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HarmlessSaucer · 2023-09-28 15:20 I bought an HP Elite Desk G5 mini not too long back second hand off eBay and don't regret it. Runs Proxmox great to run a few VMs and containers including HomeAssistant, Jellyfin, AdGuard etc etc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Feuerstern · 2023-09-28 15:21 I was thinking about this. But every HA module is an own docker container and I was reading that installing and maintaining them by yourself them is much harder compared to just using HA OS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- donomi · 2023-09-28 15:47 This is what I use. Everything runs in docker containers with a NAS mounted on the host and mapped to the container. Low power and easy and fast setup/recovery ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corruptboomerang · 2023-09-28 15:54 Heck, you can get a cheap 13100 build for close to that price. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RuaidhriM · 2023-09-28 16:06 How much difficulty, is for sure, subjective. If you are already planning on virtualization my guess is it would be no problem for you. I run HA, MQTT, Zigbee2MQTT and Node-Red and I guess Watchtower in the mix to update things. Back to your question though ... probably a small NUC would do what you need. You can get used ones, say a NUC6 or a 7 on e-Bay for cheap. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GlumKnowledge5933 · 2023-09-28 16:12 Haz pensado en ejecutarlo en una board china ? Hablemos de rendimiento y poder vs dinero gastado ? Sería razonable implementar un x99 como servidor pve? Yo creo que sí ---------------------------------------------------------------------- human_with_humanity · 2023-09-28 16:27 Orange pi 5 plus. 10w at max load. 3 to 4.5w at idle. 8 core 16gb with nvme slot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZaxLofful · 2023-09-28 16:27 I personally use Super Micro: Supermicro AS-E301-9D-8CN4 EPYC... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V58WKMC?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mpw-linux · 2023-09-28 16:45 Get a Dell Optiplex 7010 SFF. I have 2 of them with i7's and 16G on each machine. Why do you need VM's as all your apps can run on the host system ?! These machines cost less then 200.00 USD off of Ebay. What apps are you thinking of running? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FiltroMan · 2023-09-28 16:50 A ThinkCentre Tiny or something of the sort, it's highly likely that the motherboards support Xeon CPUs: that's the way I went and I'm going nuts with LXCs and VMs. All in a mostly silent (except when running backup tasks) fashion and roughly consuming 70W of power. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ParticularCod6 · 2023-09-28 17:02 link? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- surpyc · 2023-09-28 17:05 Do you have an external Disk for storage or only an internal one? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kennykid2002 · 2023-09-28 17:12 Maintaining them is hard? I had HA core setup in docker on my Synology NAS on the 7.2022 build for a year with it hooked up to homekit and Alexa and haven't needed to touch it or even login to HA for that matter. Only recently updated HA to 9.2023 build since I was upgrading my Synology to 7.1 DSM and figured I'd update all my Dockers at the same time. If you like to tinker and interface with HA with dashboards and such, then it may be a bit more involved. But as someone who likes to set and forget, the initial setup process was not too bad; only had to setup an extra docker container for Ring to mqtt and mosquitomqtt to integrate my Ring alarm. I only interface with my HA through Siri and my Alexa devices. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- donomi · 2023-09-28 17:25 The NAS is my external storage. I just have a 2 bay Synology with 2x4tb drives configured in raid 1. Eventually I'll have to expand when I have the money and reach capacity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ManiacMog · 2023-09-28 17:46 I run homeassistant OS on a raspberry pi 4 with a handful of plugins and add-ons and it runs quite well. Mind you I got the 8 GB model to handle the larger memory demand for some of the more intensive add- ons. But I also run Proxmox machine for my larger VMs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- oxymo · 2023-09-28 17:55 Intel NUC, used office pc, or build a white box. I have an old desktop i7-8700 with 64gb ram I use for proxmox, multi game hosting, discord bot scripts, and a ton of self hosted apps in containers and a few full vms. Thing is rock solid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gooseberryfalls · 2023-09-28 17:57 The 8 year old Lenovo you have sitting in the back of your closet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- papapumpnz · 2023-09-28 18:00 Yes this is what i have. 8 of them. Very quite, low power, low heat. I find the limiting factor in scaling a home self host cluster is heat disapation. Fine in winter, hard in summer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vicks9880 · 2023-09-28 18:06 Hp elitedesk g4 mini. Has 2 nvne slots and sips only 2-3w at idle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rsachoc · 2023-09-28 18:23 I just purchased an Optiplex 5060 (i5-8500) with 16gb (plan to add 2 x 16gb sticks for 48gb total) off eBay for $100 and added a Samsung 970 1tb for $42 off Amazon. Great little machine and low power consumption! Running Debian on bare metal with docker and around 50 containers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- yowzadfish80 · 2023-09-28 18:51 I built a Athlon 200G based system with 16 GB RAM, two 256 GB SSD's, 320 series AM4 motherboard, a 500W PSU and a simple ATX cabinet around 5 years back. OS is Proxmox. Absolutely rock solid stability, zero issues and does everything I need. Went with this "large" setup instead of with a NUC because I wanted complete flexibility for upgrades. Plus I have the space for it. It's in a corner floor level storage area of one of the rooms in my house. System barely makes any noise. Stock CPU cooler, single 120mm exhaust fan. And of course, the PSU fan. Both CPU and motherboard temps don't cross 40 degrees. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sweet_chin_music · 2023-09-28 19:22 I don't know that many people here are going to consider $1500 to be "cost effective". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- saksoz · 2023-09-28 19:26 intel nuc, or used hp/dell/lenovo sff pc is perfect for this. I have something like [this](https://www.ebay.com/itm/235213275072?hash=item3 6c3cdbfc0:g:pvMAAOSwnwNlCcE7&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwDlFSoi8IT1L%2FFKb3m WRbqgZHAF9hOUFFVdmhR3RSTUIc1zZfuHpUIyhNcroNAnAlGbaZYMmISTrTKPZuIxtV60F 1s7OgZHh%2BPvyWpNDWMH%2F44Pu7i5kJ6mnlYcCakbVaNNNKLQyfwfnMYd5wpHxpqJLrp WjCxo2rrf8H9kTOXMZbUUwIPYaN8wUMJzNnvOe%2FcCvLhVSjYYIYJdgfWJBWzM1jreH%2 Flh07W5m1qX5R7or4bwf58lyddwl2OtnJ5t4xw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7jY-dPbYg) with Debian on it and it's much better than a rpi You might want to use containers vs. VMs for the applications you listed, would be easier and more efficient IMO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZaxLofful · 2023-09-28 19:26 I run a ton of VMs, and that thing sips power. I run all of it off the amount of power from rooftop solar. It’s embedded, quiet and enterprise ready…Not to mention it fits in a very tiny space. If you aren’t doing a lot, sure just grab a Raspberry Pi or maybe a NUC. Neither can handle the workload I do very well, have tried! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bytepursuits · 2023-09-28 19:28 Scroll through this blog: https://liliputing.com/tag/mini-pc/ I run several mini-pcs for my homelab and they typically run at 10 watts for me each, and you can stick so many docker containers into these it's crazy. ebay often has some good deals on used: https://www.ebay.com/itm/155765687266 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bytepursuits · 2023-09-28 19:38 I prefer anything that's recent AMD, you get 8 cores and 16 threads over 4/6 cores 6/8 threads in intel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SAM4191 · 2023-09-28 20:05 I switched from ha in docker to ha OS and the addons are indeed quite easy and there are a lot of community addons. You are limited in control over the addons. I tried to import my database from my old vaultwarden but there was no way since you don't get access to the volumes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Feuerstern · 2023-09-28 20:06 Thank you so much for the large amount of recomendations. I got much more help than I could even imagine. After all your posts I think I will go into the direction of a cost-effective nuc or thinkcentre. But before I make a final decision, there's still a lot of research ahead of me to review all your recommendations in detail to find out which of them suits best to my needs and is affordable in my region. I will give an small update here when I made a final decision for those who are interested or find this post later via a search engine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Smarty_McTry · 2023-09-28 20:08 Define “sips power” ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ZaxLofful · 2023-09-28 20:28 https://www.supermicro.com/en/Aplus/system/Embedded/AS-E301-9D- 8CN4.cfm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonteponte71 · 2023-09-28 20:30 I got a G3. And I think it is even quicker than my main desktop that hasn’t been upgraded in over ten years. It even included a Windows 10 Pro license. I’m going to try ProxMox on it for the first time. I also discovered I have vPro on mine which means headless operation without KVM. Great little machines! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corruptboomerang · 2023-09-28 20:56 Pcpartpicker.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- maxmalkav · 2023-09-28 20:59 I’m happy with my HP T630 (thin client), quite small, it’s easy to find second hand , you can upgrade a couple of things (I installed 32GB RAM in mine) and power consumption is very low (below 15W at max load, IIRC) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- roboalex2 · 2023-09-28 21:10 I found the ASRock J5040-ITX to be a top solution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ParticularCod6 · 2023-09-28 21:14 i know that website but i cant get a build anywhere near $150 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Orlanth_ · 2023-09-28 21:16 I got a prodesk G400 for free at my work, they were throwing them away. 16Gb, a new SSD (2 To for VM and files) and an external HD (8To for movies, shows, cold stuff basically). I run a proxmox on it, with a few alpine LXC container for nginx proxy, and several dockers. A few Debian VMs for more heavy stuff. A bit difficult to set up at first, but work like a charm now. No noise at all, low consumption. I previously had a MiniPc quieter, with no fan at all, very good as well, but i've put everything on the base system, no Vm, so backup were difficult, tests of new apps as well. Way better with my new setup. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Brilliant_Sound_5565 · 2023-09-28 21:17 Intel nuc, that's what I did and a Nas central storage. More then capable of running proxmox say and some VMS, I walked in 16gb ram into my nuc just to help it along and it's good ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corruptboomerang · 2023-09-28 21:29 Probably not $150... IDK day your market is like. But for me, a used 8th Gen Dell/HP/Lenovo type box is running me around $300-400 ($500 AUD), a cheap 13th Gen build is around the same, especially if I'm going to upgrade the ram on the pre-built, and I have an old case & power supply. Similarly, many N100/N305 mini PC's are often in that $500 AUD range. If you can get a basically free 8th gen + prebuilt do that. But 13th Gen DIY isn't a LOT more expensive. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ParticularCod6 · 2023-09-28 21:36 N100 can be had for $165 new: [https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-Intel-N100-Computer-Desktop- Display/dp/B0BVFS94J5?th=1](https://www.amazon.com/Beelink- Intel-N100-Computer-Desktop-Display/dp/B0BVFS94J5?th=1) used 8500 for $95 (+ssd) [https://www.ebay.com/itm/314837908943?hash=item494dcd3dcf:g:0TYAAOSwA gJlCH\~a&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0J8jIINour8g%2F31wdCcQtmCJ1EMWB03F62n2MJ cnIpOl%2Fm6wbytjZAdS0xi%2BdjJCRVknuO6k8Hyqe1QssO5GD3knTNepjJIDF%2BeJ6Y rrh4Lhu%2FSiZOulV686ZIIAhfczBJ%2Foe2JntW3CQO0jyIq7CyXQCUNO1ClyU0cZDlDo qBnmkGghSQhilkP%2FN0pZUTi%2FIGNCyi59vpcJG9S4BhB68uEMX60kMi50tUvb2Nwy%2 F0f%2F5vrPACxkFeB9DsXHmuZ%2BSoJj9QqOCPnEhSnivDGaEuY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR\_ bgu9vbYg](https://www.ebay.com/itm/314837908943?hash=item494dcd3dcf:g: 0TYAAOSwAgJlCH~a&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0J8jIINour8g%2F31wdCcQtmCJ1EMWB0 3F62n2MJcnIpOl%2Fm6wbytjZAdS0xi%2BdjJCRVknuO6k8Hyqe1QssO5GD3knTNepjJID F%2BeJ6Yrrh4Lhu%2FSiZOulV686ZIIAhfczBJ%2Foe2JntW3CQO0jyIq7CyXQCUNO1Cly U0cZDlDoqBnmkGghSQhilkP%2FN0pZUTi%2FIGNCyi59vpcJG9S4BhB68uEMX60kMi50tU vb2Nwy%2F0f%2F5vrPACxkFeB9DsXHmuZ%2BSoJj9QqOCPnEhSnivDGaEuY%3D%7Ctkp%3 ABk9SR_bgu9vbYg) ​ hence why i was wondering where you can get a 13100 build for $150 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe_Isko · 2023-09-28 21:50 See if annyone has a laptop they want to sell - especially if the only thing that is wrong is the battery. I am using my friend's second hand laptop to achieve what you describe running on a docker stack. No VMs though. Consumes very little energy, I think I calculated it out to be like 10W per day max estimated based on my energy bill. That might have changed because I took the battery out, but idk shouldn't affect anything. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- citruspers · 2023-09-28 22:15 Asrock Deskmini's pretty good, I use one as a media player. My main gripe is the realtek network chip (so no esxi). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheStructor · 2023-09-28 22:18 Used enterprise rack servers will get you the best power/performance ratio for long-term virtualisation. They'll never be as cheap as NUCs or Raspberry Pis, in terms of both up-front and running costs - but in my experience, you'll quickly outgrow what those low-power systems can offer, in terms of RAM, CPU, storage and networking. In any case - don't go for old consumer-grade PCs, refurbished as servers. They're the lowest up-front investment but offer the worst efficiency and power/performance. The capabilities are much worse than rack servers and the electric bills much higher than mini-PCs and SoCs. It's the worst of both worlds. When going rackmount - look for 5-10 year old equipment. Older stuff will be dirt-cheap, but with much worse power efficiency. Conversely, servers newer than 5 years old are so efficient, that companies aren't replacing them yet, so you won't find a good deal. If you don't mind paying close to new/retail price - go for it - but for a hobby project that might be a little steep. If noise is an issue: don't get the thin, screeching 1U servers. Go for 2U or larger. They're quieter out-of-the-box, and in many cases you can replace their larger fans with Noctuas to get them very quiet. In any case, rackmount is the loudest solution, so you'll want it in a basement or attic. My home lab hypervisor is a Dell PowerEdge R720xd, 2x 8-core, 3.6 GHz Xeons, 196GB DDR3 ECC RAM, 12x3TB NL-SAS and 2x1TB SSD for cache. It draws 350-400W, while running a huge amount of self-hosted apps (including PLEX media server), with room to spare, and doubling-up as a NAS. I tried using a mini-PC before and quickly found it's tiny resources too constraining. TL;DR: 5-10 year old used rackmount server is the sweet spot, bang- per-buck. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mikedoth · 2023-09-28 23:28 Do you run the VMs off the NAS or internal storage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wdrussell1 · 2023-09-29 02:35 Get an HP, Lenovo, or Dell mini PC. You can get them with i7s and 64GB of DDR4 ram for about $150-$200. Uses no more power than any other computer and is a beefy little machine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Couch941 · 2023-09-29 03:19 Homeassistant uses basically nothing. Discord bot and other small scripts should be basically nothibg aswell. Why do you think a raspberry pi isn't enough ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cybasura · 2023-09-29 04:45 Well, the Pi5 is coming out soon and that supports PCIE so I think that would work quite well, but given that you require VMs - I really do not recommend using ARM devices in general due to the lack of VM support for other architectures aside from QEMU However, if you are ok with QEMU, and you tried it on an ARM device before, then with the pi5's capability to use PCIE, it would be kinda nice With that said, I recommend a mini pc like a NUC, or a Dell mini pc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ElevenNotes · 2023-09-29 04:54 This is the way. Grow slowly and according to one’s budget. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- originalripley · 2023-09-29 06:58 That seems like an ambitious price for an i7 and 64GB of DDR4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mohammed-Alsahli · 2023-09-29 07:26 On ebay there are many servers with reasonable prices, you can get 12 cores and 32 gb of ram around 200 usd, you can use an old gaming pc and it will be fine to run proxmox with different OS or run linux with docker and it will be fine, personally I use Truenas system ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bambo630 · 2023-09-29 07:57 I bought a Thinkcentre M910q Tiny: 8gb Ram, 4Cpu cores i think I5, and 250GB SSD for 100$ i am Running Proxmox with 3VMs and it works like a charm. I upgraded with a extra 1TB SSD and 8GB etxtra Ram. Power consumptions is very low and you cant hear it at all. So depends what you want to run. but i recommend 100% ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bambo630 · 2023-09-29 08:00 Damn looks good, do you know what the powerconsumption is? and/or the upgradebility? I have a Thinkcentre M910q and this could be a next Maschine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bambo630 · 2023-09-29 08:01 do you know how many cores that cpu has? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bambo630 · 2023-09-29 08:07 Problem with a proper server or gaming pc is the noise and powerconsumption. Correct me if im wrong. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ParticularCod6 · 2023-09-29 08:44 For upgrability the beelinks are no go. They won't have enough slots due to the small size. Consider the optiplex which should be able to achieve 10w. I believe there was a Google sheets out there with a lot of build power usage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jassalmithu · 2023-09-29 09:37 i7 8th or i5 10th and up gives best bang for buck right now and is much more compatible with lots of stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mohammed-Alsahli · 2023-09-29 09:42 My gaming pc is fine to me, I always use air-conditioning in my country so no noticeable noise from pc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Freaaakyyy · 2023-09-29 09:47 I use this n100 board. https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/N100DC-ITX/ Its DC powered so super efficient. i run proxmox on it with a couple of VM's/containers and have 2 fans, 1 nvme ssd and 2 SATA ssds. Idles around 12w and under full load cant remember exactly, around 20w-23w if i remember correctly. I also have a HP micro pc with a 7500t, it idles around 17w but under load it does close to 60w. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Freaaakyyy · 2023-09-29 09:50 6 cores no hyperthreading.. Could have just typed i5-8500 in google, would have been easyer than typing your comment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bambo630 · 2023-09-29 09:51 true but im way to lazy to open a tab thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Freaaakyyy · 2023-09-29 09:52 use ctrl + t and start typing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bambo630 · 2023-09-29 09:53 the more you know, thanks im gonna use this and forget it by tomorow ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BluePhi09 · 2023-09-29 11:34 Raspberry Pi 5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wdrussell1 · 2023-09-29 13:10 It really isnt, I see them alot on ebay. Even if they have less RAM you can still get them cheap and put some ram in them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SelectCase · 2023-09-29 18:08 Since I switched to containers a few years ago, I've seen zero reason to have VMs on my home network. Way fewer resources, much faster boot times, way easier to sling containers between hosts, super easy to write maintenance scripts. Everything about them is better, unless there's actually something on your system that absolutely needs to run under a different OS> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- originalripley · 2023-09-29 19:57 What generation are you looking at? And what kind of prices are you seeing for RAM? The RAM alone seems like it could be $100-150. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wdrussell1 · 2023-09-30 01:44 I have seen a few different gens. For ram you can get 16-32 GB for about $50 or so. I found 8GB sticks for my server (HP DL380 G9) for about $8 a stick on ebay. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Brilliant_Sound_5565 · 2023-09-30 13:12 Both, but generally most are run off the shared Nas storage. I don't run anything intensive, just things like unifi and pinhole to mention a few, they don't have desktops on them. I run a windows DC that run from local storage I think, I think thats where I put it, least I have in the past because it's a bit slow running from the Nas, but doesn't affect the performance of it as a DC, just logins, but it I might move that to the Nas. I think my proxmox only has a 128gb internal drive, so I generally put the vms and make sure they are backed up ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Brilliant_Sound_5565 · 2023-09-30 13:15 And the advantage to me, is the nuc only takes a few watts of power and I've got a couple more spare that I might add, the Nas takes about 30w I think. It's a 4 disk wd. But it's way better then the 10dosk, 40 tb old server I had that pulled a out 220 to 250w at rest, so think is a much smarter, much quieter, cheaper and no slower way of doing things, esp for home use here in the UK. I keep my big servers to myself at work. I don't need to build a data center at home and I suspect most people that do don't either