Introducing: Raspberry Pi 5! reddit / selfhosted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnIndustrialEngineer · 2023-09-28 08:59 I eagerly look forward to not being able to get a couple of these ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DelScipio · 2023-09-28 09:00 Fuck m2 2242. That limits the usage of a m2 2280 sata port expander. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Theon · 2023-09-28 09:25 Honestly, at that pricepoint it's not a good deal for self-hosting anyway. I'd only go for a Raspberry Pi if compatibility with some addon/shield was a **hard** requirement, you've got much better options for cheaper nowadays. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s_91 · 2023-09-28 09:36 > PCIe 2.0 x1 interface for fast peripherals Is it possible to add additional nics and run Opnsense? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- froid_san · 2023-09-28 10:11 seen an YouTube video when Jeff put a 10gb nic on it and it worked but not full 10gb speed more like 5gb from what i remember ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MachDiamonds · 2023-09-28 10:19 Nice, they shifted the PoE header. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tirarex · 2023-09-28 10:56 Thanks for steam deck, you can buy samsung pm99a ssd.s for ultra cheap, it's 2230 but Pi hat has mount hole for it ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DelScipio · 2023-09-28 11:11 The problem is that Sata expanders use the 2280. Is bad because by a couple of centimeters could have the liberty to use wharever we wanted. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KikikanHUN · 2023-09-28 11:32 Hi! I'm kind of new here and especially in the raspberry pi-mini PC world, could you please give some pointers for these cheaper alternatives? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Relevant-Set4352 · 2023-09-28 11:40 Older pcs, 6xxx 7xxxx 8xxx range can be had for 100-200 bucks on ebay, local sites -afbshop in austria/germany have good sales often. Not sure whats the equivalent in hungary. I have a 6700k 32gb unraid server and its 100 times faster than my old trusty 3450. Make sure to check how many sata ports + what power supply is in there ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KikikanHUN · 2023-09-28 11:46 Thanks, I'll check used stuff out! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-28 11:59 The shine has gone - I think there will always be a hobbyist market for these, but from a home-server perspective, they are no bleeding edge in what they offer, or at the price point they sell it. Fact you can you get a 8c/16t Ryzen 5700u mini PC from AliExpress for £160.. which has multiple NICs ( 2.5Gb I believe), has multiple NVMe slots and can take 64GB RAM... I know which direction I would go.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- notta_Lamed_Wufnik · 2023-09-28 12:20 100% spot on. When they were holding back Pi's from consumers I grabbed a nuc and got rid of all my Pi's. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NoMore9gag · 2023-09-28 12:28 At least where I live you can get Apollo Lake-based mini-PCs for less than 50 bucks, if you are lucky, then maybe even 25-30 bucks. I just looked at Apollo Lake CPU models [from Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldmont)(particularly Desktop, Mobile, and Embedded) and then searched at my local used/second-hand stuff marketplace. I bet nowadays you can get a used mini-PC on a newer [Gemini Lake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldmont_Plus) for 70-80 bucks easily. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _Erin_ · 2023-09-28 12:29 Depends on needs, but an older Lenovo tiny ThinkCentre is a good, low power draw option too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MegaComrade53 · 2023-09-28 12:32 What's the wattage of those? I worry if it's too high the power cost outweighs the price difference of pi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AlyoshaV · 2023-09-28 12:45 Used mini-PCs can be very cheap and while they're obviously bigger than a Raspberry Pi they're not that big. I bought a ThinkCentre M600 off ebay for ~$40, came with 8GB of RAM, a hard drive (replaced with an old SSD I had), and power supply. Smaller than my cable modem. Weak CPU but good enough for what I run on it and it's dead silent. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Since1785 · 2023-09-28 12:50 Raspberry Pi has lost its edge. Never available. Overpriced. So much more availability of competitive products. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Feuerstern · 2023-09-28 13:03 I liked raspberry pi's for they low power consumption, while offering enough performance for small self hosted projects. But it seems like the power consumption needed is increasing with every new pi generation. We are almost at a point now, where the low power consumption isn't an argument for the pi anymore. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- joshpennington · 2023-09-28 13:08 I really wanted to be more excited about this, but their lack of availability for several years pushed me into discovering small 1 liter PCs on eBay that are more powerful and cheaper. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Outrageous-Wheel-634 · 2023-09-28 13:09 Av1 support? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Heuristics · 2023-09-28 13:13 how does the power draw compare? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PM_ME_DATASETS · 2023-09-28 13:18 £160 is $195, and the most expensive RPi5 is $80 acc to the OP. Do you know of any alternatives that are similar in price? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- okilydokilyTiger · 2023-09-28 13:23 I mean Raspberry PI was never something powerful enough for a whole home server ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ProbablePenguin · 2023-09-28 13:28 USFF ones with the T/U series Intel CPUs should be well under 10W. Not that much higher than a Pi. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- techsnapp · 2023-09-28 13:28 If it's never available, that presumes out of inventory due to selling available units. How does that mean it has lost its edge? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Citizen404 · 2023-09-28 13:32 Pis were never power efficient (when comparing power per watt). Laptop CPUs or underclocked desktop CPUs are better this in regard. Ultimate power efficiency and draw would be M1 Mac Minis. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- OriginalEvils · 2023-09-28 13:33 They’re never available as they made the decision to mainly sell to businesses during the pandemic. My Microcenter got a whole 125 Units of the Pi Zero 2W during all of 2022… that should tell you something ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Feuerstern · 2023-09-28 13:38 You are right that the pi isn't the best when it comes to power per watt. But when I want to have for example a homeassistant server in my home and it is working just fine on a rasperry pi 4 with an average power consumption under 5 watt I still save energy compared to "bigger" and more powerful solutions. An M1 Mac Mini would cost my more at the end, even when only comparing power consumption. I also have several raspberry pi zero w's in use here where I change pictures on an epaper display every few minutes. Also here a more powerful system might be mor eefficent in general, but would just burn most of the energy unused. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Citizen404 · 2023-09-28 13:49 True enough! Will be interesting to see the power draw of the Pi 5. Also Jack Gheesling seemed to hint at a future firmware update which will allow for WOL & sleep support which will be a big bonus imo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- utopiah · 2023-09-28 13:49 Meanwhile me happily going "back" from RPi4 or RPi3 to RPi0... As numerous have said before, not sure what the point is. I find it more interesting now to go smaller rather than bigger. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SwedishTiger · 2023-09-28 13:53 Slightly changed form factor in the 5th as well so many hats and shields don't fit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- umataro · 2023-09-28 13:57 This will be the make or break for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- stop_lying_good_god · 2023-09-28 13:57 After you add in the storage and other junk, you're done for. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WoodNUFC · 2023-09-28 13:58 This is exactly what happened to me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jealy · 2023-09-28 14:01 > Fact you can you get a 8c/16t Ryzen 5700u mini PC from AliExpress for £160.. which has multiple NICs ( 2.5Gb I believe), has multiple NVMe slots and can take 64GB RAM... Got a link to one of those? Wouldn't mind checking them out. Cheers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- joshpennington · 2023-09-28 14:02 It’s a damn shame too because before then my goal was to set my entire homelab around ARM CPUs. I’ve since pivoted to using only used machines. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lestrenched · 2023-09-28 14:03 Lenovo/Dell mini PCs, used. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PM_ME_DATASETS · 2023-09-28 14:06 You also need to add storage to the mini PC right? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- stop_lying_good_god · 2023-09-28 14:07 Don't most of these come with it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PM_ME_DATASETS · 2023-09-28 14:13 I have no idea tbh. If that's true then it's indeed a good alternative price-wise. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corruptboomerang · 2023-09-28 14:19 Keen to know what video codecs it supports & that kind of power consumption it's taking to do it. Could be the beginning of distributed hardware transcoding. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sroundez · 2023-09-28 14:26 PCIe 2.0 lanes are limited to 500MB/s per lane. There's also a 20% overhead in PCIe 2.0, so you should see peak speeds of 400MB/s on the wire, under lab conditions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sroundez · 2023-09-28 14:27 All these folks claiming that a mini PC can meet the demands of a Pi. Let me know when you put a mini PC in a non ventilated enclosure outdoors. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nyanmisaka · 2023-09-28 14:31 Sadly, no AV1. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pastudan · 2023-09-28 14:34 Aww, I was really hoping they would go back to a single full-sized HDMI back on this version. I hate finding my adapter every time I want to use a pi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Spuxilet · 2023-09-28 14:37 They wrote zero was 5 $ sbc but i could not find it anywhere for less then 20$. Rpi is 35$ if you ask them but in reality it costs double of that. RPI5 80$ huh? You won't able to even buy it and if you see someone selling it it will be like 180$ at least. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Spuxilet · 2023-09-28 14:38 At least you do not have to use freaking sd card for main storage in 2023 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-28 14:43 My eBay sales beg to differ... I sold an 8GB PI for £125... and to get the same resource out of a PI, than I can get from an i5-10500T or i3 N305, I'd need 2-4 Pi's ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PurpleEsskay · 2023-09-28 14:46 I'm "whelmed". It's a much needed update but not as good as I was hoping or expecting and is still marginally being outperformed by some of the competing options, all be it at a slightly lower price point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PurpleEsskay · 2023-09-28 14:46 Nope ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PurpleEsskay · 2023-09-28 14:47 Sadly no AV1. Video wise its only a very minor bump up from the Pi4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BubblyZebra616 · 2023-09-28 14:48 Can you run OPNsense on arm? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pastudan · 2023-09-28 14:52 and hardware crypto extensions please! :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GlassedSilver · 2023-09-28 14:52 Too little, too late. As expected then. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PM_ME_DATASETS · 2023-09-28 14:56 That's crazy, but surely there must be some kind of geographical difference? I'm looking at a site where I can get a Pi4 for 75 euros and have it delivered tomorrow. I really don't know a lot of this stuff so I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to learn more.... but when I google the i5-10500T I see mini PCs for 600+ euros. So I'd think, yeah makes sense that you get more bang for more bucks. If you don't mind me asking, say I want to buy a new server for 80 usd/eur/pound excluding storage etc, what would you recommend? Is there even anything good in this price range? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PM_ME_DATASETS · 2023-09-28 14:57 Yeah when I was writing that I was already thinking that's probably not going to be the real price... but still a big difference with the alternatives mentioned here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- stop_lying_good_god · 2023-09-28 15:02 If, for $150, I can get the 8GB model, and place a 1TB SSD in it, along with a fan and case, then, well, it's a good-enough deal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Outrageous-Wheel-634 · 2023-09-28 15:04 What a bummer.. I'll stick to the rpi4 then ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corruptboomerang · 2023-09-28 15:07 Darn. Wouldn't mind some cheap low power chips with good encode/decode performance. 😅😂 Why can't we have nice things. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BubbleNucleator · 2023-09-28 15:07 Not true, they're ramping up production so that you can get the $60 4 gig variant on Amazon for $399, 2-day shipping. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corruptboomerang · 2023-09-28 15:08 I'm pretty sure they have that. Although, I've been seeing more and more of the Intel Quick Assist Cards. 😅 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zeta_cartel_CFO · 2023-09-28 15:09 This is the way. If you don't need to interface with the GPIO - then there are plenty used Mini-PCs out there for cheap that will blow away the Raspberry Pi in terms of performance , storage options and I/O. Even the mini-PCs with 7-9 year old CPUs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GryphticonPrime · 2023-09-28 15:17 Even at that price, it's a hard sell when you can get a more powerful mini-pc for cheaper that only consume a few watts more power. Raspberry Pis make sense for some applications, but I just don't see the point of them for self hosting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SirEDCaLot · 2023-09-28 15:17 If you want instructions per watt efficiency, RPi isn't great. You can do better with a NUC type micro PC that uses a laptop chip. However for small self hosted projects, it will spend an awful lot of time idle. And that's where RPi shines- idle power use is almost zero. The issue is if you have several small self-hosted projects- a lot of people buy several RPi and put them in some kind of rack arrangement, but at that point you are better off getting the small x64 laptop chip based system and running virtualization or docker on it; you'll get better performance (as any of the self hosted systems can peak and use the whole larger cpu) and overall less cost. The other thing is, for most small self hosted projects, the additional capability of RPi 5 is simply not necessary. Sure this enables more workloads, but if you're going to host surveillance or transcoding or whatever on the RPi you're better off with the more capable micro PC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rhinofucked · 2023-09-28 15:23 I have started moving to nucs as well. I still have a handful of Pis running but they are for light stuff like klipper for the 3d printer and a back up pihole and aquarium controller etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zeta_cartel_CFO · 2023-09-28 15:23 Don't think there is a ARM version of OpnSense (or Pfsense) available. If you want to use it as a router -then something like OpenWRT is probably your only option. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- emprahsFury · 2023-09-28 15:28 I was always told if you want to break an incumbent you need to offer 80% of the service at 20% of the cost. Which was the original raspberry pi, back before nucs and compute sticks were a thing. Now at $80 it's more like 20% of the power at 50% of the cost. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-09-28 15:32 A RPi4 runs at 7w, you can have NUCs doing better than that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- emprahsFury · 2023-09-28 15:37 Lost their edge like Google has lost its edge. Still highly successful at say making-money, but chasing that kind of success meant leaving what made them appeal to end users in the first place. Back in the day a raspberry pi was meant to be accessible and affordable to a 12-yr old so that the kid would learn to love STEM. Or so a philanthropist could buy 10k and send them to villages in Africa. Now it's about ensuring stability for their corporate clients, specifically to the detriment of these original customers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Alonso_The_GOAT · 2023-09-28 15:37 I don't know if they still do it, but in Germany once every so often universities literally throw away old computers, hard drives, memory sticks, GPUs, and peripherals. That's how I got the PC I used for like 5 years. Most things are mostly in good condition and perfect for (non-important) storage. If I remember correctly I got something like 30tb of storage for free back in the day (2010, maybe?). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- whoscheckingin · 2023-09-28 15:40 +1 I was an avid user and advocate for the Pi's. Have owned a couple of them from the 1st to 4th gen. But since then I have moved on to older PCs and when power is a factor repurposed laptops. Have clubs the replacements work better for my use cases. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jovialfaction · 2023-09-28 15:41 100% right. I can see a Beelink mini PC with an Intel N95, 8GB of memory and 256GB SSD for $120 on Amazon right now. A raspberry pi with a case, power supply and SD card is very close to that price and can do a lot less. The only advantage of the raspberry is the GPIO, and I would venture less than 10% of people actually use them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s_91 · 2023-09-28 15:42 I just googled and found this: https://forum.opnsense.org/index.php?topic=34317.0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Xgungibit2ya · 2023-09-28 16:02 No joke, I had massive deja vu reading this comment chain. Like, I get it's been suggested before but for some reason I've been freaking out because I feel like ive read the exact same words and shit before and double checked the post timestamps. Trippy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CactusBoyScout · 2023-09-28 16:12 I doubt many people want to put their self-hosted server outdoors...? Are you the first homeless self-hoster? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sowhatidoit · 2023-09-28 16:17 Depends on your homeserver needs. For some of us here at /r/selfhosted, a pi is serving up 30+ services! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- valiantiam · 2023-09-28 16:19 *crickets* > My toaster barely costs less than my air fryer and can't cook a chicken. Right...it's not meant to. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sowhatidoit · 2023-09-28 16:20 If it did have Av1 support, what would your use case be? I'm curious because I'd never heard about Av1 until I read your comment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sroundez · 2023-09-28 16:21 I run a GPS unit outside. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zeta_cartel_CFO · 2023-09-28 16:27 I stand corrected. I had no idea that existed. I use OPNSense and usually keep up with new developments. But this was something I must've missed. Thanks for the links. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Spuxilet · 2023-09-28 16:34 I got dell optiplex 3060, i5 8500T, 256 GB M.2 SSD, 256 GB SATA crucial SSD, 12 GB DDR4 RAM, wifi card + antenna and charger from ebay for 89$. Mini pcs are dirt cheap nowadays. It's power consumption is very low. I pay about 20$ per year for it in electricity bill. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PracticalList5241 · 2023-09-28 16:52 https://www.virtualizationhowto.com/2023/09/beelink-ser5-mini-pc-amd- ryzen-7-home-server/ For this random particular box, 10-25w. Keep in mind at the higher wattage you will also get much more performance ---------------------------------------------------------------------- msanangelo · 2023-09-28 16:59 I would have liked to see a 16gb variant.but still pre-ordered one for maybe desktop use depending on how it performs for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tenekev · 2023-09-28 17:00 The CPUs in these boxes are mostly 35W. Newer gens go even lower. But you are not going to draw 35W. More like 10-12W under normal operation. My whole cluster (3 Lenovo Tiny m920q draw around 35W in total). Really, they are comparable to a Pi in terms of power draw. While the Pis are 2-3 times more efficient, we are talking about extremely low numbers in either cases. For context, my gaming laptop draws more than my entire homelab (Cluster, DIY NAS and networking). Even though it's not running 24/7. Price/performance ratio however can't be compared because the Pis come nowhere near the USFFs. In my opinion, there is no place for price/performance/power draw discussion. It's all the hype train, trying to come up with good arguments for a Pi. If you are on a **power budget** (you are working off batteries), the Pi is justifiable. But not from a cost price/performance perspective. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- idreamofjeanshorts · 2023-09-28 17:01 I don't think so. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jamesrc · 2023-09-28 17:04 This is fair, but I think we're talking the average use case. I think we can all come up with scenarios where a Pi makes sense. But if you're going to generalise, you can get a better deal on power/price that will suit most uses. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tenekev · 2023-09-28 17:06 But you get a free case and an SD card for free. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Offbeatalchemy · 2023-09-28 17:11 No one said a Raspberry Pi didn't have it's uses but for most people in this subreddit selfhosting services, raspberry pis are just worse for hosting services. Unless you're just toying around with the idea of selfhosting small things, it's best to just jump to a mini PC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lestrenched · 2023-09-28 17:12 Just to note: I meant the SFFs over the mini pcs from these brands. Specifically because the newer models of the pcs have strange dimensions for the PSU slots which make it harder to replace them. The SFFs use laptop-like PSUs which are easy to get, and consume much less power. Win-win if you don't need more than 2 drives. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- techsnapp · 2023-09-28 17:13 So they went from bootstrapping themselves to boot licking. I like the foundation and I'll hold out hope they're going to still appeal to those 12 year olds and the hobbyists. I don't know who the corporate clients are. Can you explain that further? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bubblegumpuma · 2023-09-28 17:21 This is kind of a hard sell to me, compared to some other SBCs like the [Orange Pi 3b.](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805733558464.html). Like 2/3 the price, a PCI-E 4x M.2 slot, compared to the RPi 5's 1x, and doesn't require buying expansion HATs or other such things, and has other neat stuff like an Embedded Displayport output. Also, I prefer Rockchip any day over Broadcom stuff... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tenekev · 2023-09-28 17:22 Why is this even a talk point? What's the difference between 5W and 15W in real-life terms? Even with inflated electricity prices, that's roughly one grocery shopping trip PER YEAR. In return, you are getting a vastly superior device with a lot more capabilities. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DesperateCourt · 2023-09-28 17:36 You're both basically describing the difference between efficiency and efficacy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AttackCircus · 2023-09-28 17:41 From a usability/power consumption/price point of view, the RasPi model 3 was the best one. Even with energy costs of 30-50 cents per kW/h you could run a handful of those in your home without a headache! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- tenekev · 2023-09-28 17:41 It's an awesome video codec. Offers extremely good quality in the same filesize as the common 1080p H.264 files due to superior compression. Not only that but I've notice that even when comparing the same high bitrate video, the AV1 version produces noticeably better picture every time. It actually ruined watching other codec because of how good it is. The downside of all of this is compatibility - only newer CPU support it natively and in every other case, it pegs the CPU at 60-70%. That's why, it's advised to get either 8th gen intel for competent codec support or at least 11th gen if you want AV1 native for your media server. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- darklord3_ · 2023-09-28 17:41 The new pi draws up to 25W too, and if you have any demanding apps it may draw that. More powerful mini pc may have better base performance ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Outrageous-Wheel-634 · 2023-09-28 17:45 Android sticks with hardware av1 support have sucky software so the video stutters half the time ... So if there was a pi with hardware av1 support and software wont be a problem with a huge Linux community, it would be great ---------------------------------------------------------------------- notta_Lamed_Wufnik · 2023-09-28 17:51 Yeah I hear that. I did leave an old Logitech music server on 1. Considering you can get a used i5 w/ 8G and 120G ssd for around $70 used, its a no brainier if you ask me. I mean I run 4 different vm OS's in proxmox and they run all my media, home assistant, ubiquiti software, etc. and it does not even breath hard. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-09-28 17:57 Here you go https://www.anandtech.com/show/18791/intel-nuc13-pro-arena-canyon- review-raptor-lake-brings-incremental-gains/8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bagican · 2023-09-28 18:05 Fun fact: input type radio in real life! On RPi 5 board! see: [https://user- images.githubusercontent.com/481677/271189458-c39414ee- bea6-482b-bc29-e271f510f7d1.jpeg](https://user- images.githubusercontent.com/481677/271189458-c39414ee- bea6-482b-bc29-e271f510f7d1.jpeg) source: Jeff's video 2:52 — 2:59 https://youtu.be/nBtOEmUqASQ?t=172 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Heuristics · 2023-09-28 18:28 Yeah, I don't get these posts encouraging people to buy hardware that is way faster than they need but will end up costing 3x as much after a few years running in a closet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jtn76 · 2023-09-28 18:37 And I would love nothing more for the industry to drop HDMI completely. Just give us DisplayPort over USB-C, damnit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Theon · 2023-09-28 18:55 Lots of businesses build Raspberry Pis into their products (industrial controllers, kiosks, media players, etc.) so when there's a shortage, they lose business too. Raspberry Pi has made the decision to prioritize those customers, which is why you [can't buy a Raspberry Pi](https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/you-cant-buy-raspberry-pi- right-now) (old article, but that's what I'm getting at). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reasonable-Bear5084 · 2023-09-28 19:27 >Ryzen 5700u mini PC I expect those mini pc to come with hidden spy hardware to be honest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cameos · 2023-09-28 19:31 I have 5 Pi's, from Pi 1 B to Pi 3 B+. They are great for home samba server (i.e., poor man's NAS), SSH/SFTP server, pihole, resilio sync and light video player for TV, but are fairly weak for any serious selfhosted stuff. I switched to miniPCs for self hosting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reercalium2 · 2023-09-28 19:40 Dual 5gig USB is a plus for me. Is there something else that has it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilhuff66 · 2023-09-28 19:42 Are you comparing under load or under idle? Because under load the NUCs are going to be around 70-100w and the Pi4 closer to 3-4w. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-09-28 19:45 Depends on the load, sure. At the end depends on what you want to do. Letting your RPi do stuff days which can be done on a NUC in minutes might even out the peaks in power consumption under load. When idling the difference between a modern low power NUC and a RPi is negligible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilhuff66 · 2023-09-28 19:48 One thing I've learned about /r/selfhosted is that the device must be used for everything. Where I think there are some areas that the Rpi5 will actually excel at, there are others where a NUC is the obvious choice. Nothing wrong with more options n shit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reercalium2 · 2023-09-28 19:59 0 isn't the version number. The 0 in Raspberry Pi Zero isn't the same as the 5 in Raspberry Pi 5. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reercalium2 · 2023-09-28 19:59 All the better to sell you new hats with, my dear ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-28 20:06 Risk of this is absolutely minimal... in this case, near zero and the boxes at that prices are bare-bones, I.e. being your own RAM and NVMe. Now if you buying some ridiculously cheap android media player.. Well that may be a different story altogether. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reercalium2 · 2023-09-28 20:06 You say poor man's but this is exactly what a NAS is ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-28 20:11 Sure, this is the one been thinking of buying: [https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005548431021.html?spm=a2g0o.cart. 0.0.165438daBSypnH&mp=1](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005548431 021.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.165438daBSypnH&mp=1) I've found the best way to find these boxes, is search for the CPU.. i.e. 5700u, 5800h etc, don't include the "Mini PC blah". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reasonable-Bear5084 · 2023-09-28 20:11 >Risk of this is absolutely minimal... how do you know that? it can have a small chip with a tiny linux that have access to the wifi/ethernet chip or whatever. Yes, I'm being a bit paranoid but who knows! Huawei spies for china and is a big name. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-28 20:38 >than they need but will end up costing 3x as much after a few years running in a closet . 10 years ago when Pi's were cutting edge, this was the case. But not anymore, both Intel and AMD have ultra-low power CPU's: [https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/231803/intel- processor-n100-6m-cache-up-to-3-40- ghz.html](https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/231803/ intel-processor-n100-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html) Yes they use bit more juice than the Pi, but nothing crazy. Also, it will process shit faster, where a Pi will take longer, so energy consumed in total could be comparable. Also, they are exponentially more expandable. For most people, 8GB RAM is simply not enough, so they'd end up with multiple Pi's, and given the shortage and scalping over the past few years, they're really not as attractive as they were originally... Hell, for the price of an 8GB Pi, you can buy a 32GB RAM upgrade for an Intel or AMD mini PC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ubera90 · 2023-09-28 20:42 Soon to not be available near you! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Derf0293 · 2023-09-28 20:51 Over priced and unavailable. Maybe if they fixed their supply chain instead of pumping all their R&D putting out new devices I wouldn't be using all their competitors products now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-28 20:53 >what would you recommend? Is there even anything good in this price range? You could probably pick up some cheap SFF or Micro PC's from eBay, but at that price point, they'd 5-6 years old. Personally, I'd increase the budget slightly, and look at the N95 or N100 Mini PC's...They'll use less juice, have newer features (i.e. better iGPU) and be more expandable... If you're willing to have a little patience (i.e. couple of weeks), then you can get these for 30-50% cheaper on AliExpress, than you can from Amazon.. I've been amazed by it recently, I got a one of those 8 port 2.5GbE/10GbE unmanaged switches for around £30.. they're selling for £90-120 on Amazon! As for the i5-10500T PC's, this will vary market by market, also it depends upon how saturated the market is, and this changes week by week - I just sold 2 of my Optiplex 7090's on eBay, for £270 each.. but I originally, I had them up for £350, as that was the "going rate" when I first listed them, but nobody was buying, so I had to drop them down! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-28 21:00 On Amazon they typically include RAM and storage.. but if you go bargain hunting, i.e. AliExpress etc, these are often optional (Or the other practise to watch out for, is soldering the RAM onto the board) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jakery43 · 2023-09-28 21:11 Right here, I got this one: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805753743064.html?spm=a2g0o.product list.main.3.66197058wTL7Et&algo_pvid=13205d99-710c-4258-9499- 4e0fbcb2db92&algo_exp_id=13205d99-710c-4258-9499-4e0fbcb2db92- 1&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21532.07%21335.2%21%21%21532.07%21%21%402101c5 c216959353412081686eaa5d%2112000034943857799%21sea%21US%210%21AB&curPa geLogUid=2BCAmUDBHZNn It rocks, but if I were buying today I would get the newer version that also has 2 SFP+ ports even if it has a bit less CPU muscle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bombero_kmn · 2023-09-28 21:21 The first time someone showed me a commercial NAS I was flummoxed. Like, it's just an over priced file server for people who don't know how computers work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lilolalu · 2023-09-28 21:25 I was thrilled by the idea of the RPi when they came out, I have quite a lot of them lying around (2/3/4) and there are definitely applications in which they totally excel, i.e. a DIY digital signage system. When I hear about people hosting their NAS and Nextcloud on RPi's I think that's just a stupid idea. You can get better performance at a lower price with greater IO options. But also in the embedded world rpis have limited use, and you quickly get to a point where an ESP32 makes more sense than a RPI. In general I think they have quite a bad performance / power / price ratio. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PovilasID · 2023-09-28 21:26 I am trash panda in best way possible. If I need I can get full i3/i5/i7 6/7th gen for 35/45EUR and well not have to deal with arm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- txmail · 2023-09-28 21:36 This pricing is way too close to mini-pc's for general computing. As a project platform that needs i/o pins I think it is still the tits. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jealy · 2023-09-28 21:37 They look nice! I assume they perform well, thermals etc? Cheapest spec is almost double what you mentioned though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jakery43 · 2023-09-28 21:48 I'm not the same user you replied to before, but yeah, I'm not sure where they got that number. They perform extremely well, I use it for Proxmox and it's way overkill for my needs. Thermals are good, especially once replace the cpu paste, but it's not quiet when at full load. That cpu (I got the 5825u) is a beast for what it's installed in. If you want to compete with a Pi 4 on cost (including case, power, etc to make it fair) something like this still beats a pi by miles: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805331501837.html?spm=a2g0o. productlist.main.1.1fc81113xYGJ54&algo_pvid=97227953-10e1-4c37-83fa- 2ac1711c5ba9&algo_exp_id=97227953-10e1-4c37-83fa-2ac1711c5ba9- 0&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21189.70%21129.0%21%21%21189.70%21%21%40210318 b916959375235523095e7466%2112000033387047170%21sea%21US%210%21AB&curPa geLogUid=8HIpukH7lS6r ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Catsrules · 2023-09-28 22:02 > If you don't need to interface with the GPIO Even if you do need to interface with the GPIO your could proably do 90% of what you need with an ESP32 or other similar board for that. And the Mini-PC for Home Lab portion. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Prestigious_Boat_386 · 2023-09-28 22:04 Done with rpis after finding out I fried it by missing one pin as they put the 5v pin right next to the 5v kills the entire board line. Like who tf would place it there when theres like 10 voltage inputs and 20 pins. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilhuff66 · 2023-09-28 22:08 The RP2040 has some great projects, personally a big fan of what the open source fightstick community has done with them. I am hopeful that the pi5 might be a good budget/low power router, if we can get dual 2.5 gig on the PCI-E port that is. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zeta_cartel_CFO · 2023-09-28 22:21 that's a good point about ESP32 boards. They're dirt cheap, but provide tons of possibilities. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ThePixelHunter · 2023-09-28 22:22 Would you mind linking to an example for those of us living under a rock? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- brand_momentum · 2023-09-28 22:24 Remember when they were affordable (for what it is) and available? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rg4noob · 2023-09-28 22:35 still haven't done anything with my raspberry pi 3 b+. want to start working on it not sure what kind of project I can do ---------------------------------------------------------------------- S0litaire · 2023-09-28 22:39 Apparently the PCIe controller on the rpi5 can "technically" run at PCIe 3.0 speeds with a config flag. it's not been certified at those speeds, but it's possible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-28 22:41 >Huawei spies for china and is a big name Ahh that golden oldie... Here's another twist for you.. There was no spying. This was purely economical, intended to provide a bargaining tool. **Hear me out on this..** Huawei supplied telecoms equipment to much of the Western-world for well over 20 year, and they were one of the most heavily scrutinised and audited company's in the world - every product and line of code was put under a microscope and reviewed by Western security agencies: * [https://www.wired.co.uk/article/huawei-gchq-security-evaluation- uk](https://www.wired.co.uk/article/huawei-gchq-security-evaluation- uk) As far as I'm aware, there is not 1 piece of evidence that has ever been presented that. Instead, Trump had to threaten friends and allies, because they knew it bullshit: * [https://thehill.com/policy/technology/433497-trump-admin-threatens- to-withhold-intelligence-from-germany-unless-it- drops/](https://thehill.com/policy/technology/433497-trump-admin- threatens-to-withhold-intelligence-from-germany-unless-it-drops/) * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/18/pressure-from- trump-led-to-5g-ban-britain-tells-huawei Once everybody was towing the line. Trump revealed his intentions to use Huawei as part of trade deal, to basically make their problems go away: * https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/23/trump-huawei-trade-deal.html I'm not saying China doesn't pose a threat.. It does in many ways, but this belief in mass-surveillance, is not one of them.. All it would take is 1 piece of factual evidence that consumer products were bugged, and it would destroy the Chinese economy overnight.. nobody would ever buy another Chinese product. It reminds me of a myth, in the 90's - that the NSA was all-seeing, and they scan every telephone conversation globally for the word "bomb".. and we must not say it, in case it gets picked up... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- joshpennington · 2023-09-28 22:51 Sure. This is the listing I bought: https://www.ebay.com/itm/166273599566 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- george107789 · 2023-09-28 23:38 Micro form factor (MFF) use laptop power supplies. SFF is a small desktop pc with an internal power supply. At least that’s the case with the Dell lineup. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pseudopad · 2023-09-28 23:39 That "up to" takes into account whatever peripherals you might want to attach to it. The USB 3 spec allows for 4.5 watts per port, and the new PCIe interface supplies up to 5 watts. That's already 15 of the 25W eaten up by something that's not the Pi itself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- idontmeanmaybe · 2023-09-28 23:39 Most people put the antenna outside and the unit inside. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kilouniform · 2023-09-28 23:43 Considering the RPi 5 consumes only 6.8 Watts under load, I would imagine you'd struggle to find a full system that would beat that for a similar price. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RephRayne · 2023-09-29 00:05 Dell Wyse 5070:- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2322090.m570.l1313& _nkw=dell+wyse+5070&_sacat=0 https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/wyse/5070/ And the much rare Fujitsu Futro 740:- https://www.fujitsu.com/uk/products/computing/pc/thin- clients/futro-s740/#specs Both use the Celeron J4105 (The Dell can also be found with the J5005) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- spanklecakes · 2023-09-29 00:20 > My Microcenter got a whole 125 Units of the Pi Zero 2W during all of 2022… that should tell you something is that a lot or a little? it actually told me nothing... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lestrenched · 2023-09-29 00:39 Right, I was talking about the MFF, thanks! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-29 00:58 If your referring to what I mentioned, this is the one I was thinking of https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005548431021.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0 .0.165438daBSypnH&mp=1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fluffer_Wuffer · 2023-09-29 00:59 This is the one, I was specifically referring to: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005548431021.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0 .0.165438daBSypnH&mp=1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CardboardLambo · 2023-09-29 02:14 If you want the free case and free SD card, you'll have to pay $100 extra ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CardboardLambo · 2023-09-29 02:17 I will always have a place in my heart for raspberry pi. They got me interested in this hobby but I've moved on. Now I only use it for my kvm. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bakedsoda · 2023-09-29 03:27 big fail not including 1 cable power and display on the pi. these mini hdmi is so goofy. \+m2 slot \+av1 also must of been included. imo ​ huge opportunity for the orangpi and its clone tbh. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Express_Broccoli_584 · 2023-09-29 05:14 How do they compare in power consumption? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Majestic-Contract-42 · 2023-09-29 05:26 r/minipc or search "mini pc" on Amazon and filter below €/$200. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sneakpeekbot · 2023-09-29 05:26 Here's a sneak peek of /r/minipc using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/minipc/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Impressions of the ASUS PN53](https://np.reddit.com/r/minipc/com ments/117hqc4/impressions_of_the_asus_pn53/) \#2: [Does anyone know where to find this SATA cable?](https://np.redd it.com/r/minipc/comments/y5mesu/does_anyone_know_where_to_find_this_sa ta_cable/) \#3: [A powerful headless laptop that fits into your pocket!](https:// np.reddit.com/r/minipc/comments/15o0k53/a_powerful_headless_laptop_tha t_fits_into_your/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](ht tps://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- utopiah · 2023-09-29 06:15 Doesn't my point still stand, that the RPi Zero is smaller both in size and electrical consumption? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- P3n1sD1cK · 2023-09-29 07:20 1 liter? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Heuristics · 2023-09-29 08:39 hmm, been thinking that one interesting thing to do with one of the mini boxes with an n100 chip could be to put the guts of it inside a mini-ix case, add a sata to m.2 adapter to the m.2 port and thus have a self contained NAS/Home server lab. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- littlesadlamp · 2023-09-29 09:24 The main raspberry pi line is not interesting anymore. But I still love the zero and pico. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zeta_cartel_CFO · 2023-09-29 09:54 Raspberry Pi will certainly have much lower power consumption compared to mini-PC running a 7th or 8th intel CPU. Simply because of the huge disparity in their capabilities. I have 2 HP Elitedesk G2s with a i5-6500T and a Lenovo m720q with a i7-6700T. Last time I measured the power draw, I saw a draw of about 10-15 watts from the HP machines. The Lenovo was a bit higher at 20 watts due to the i7. If energy cost is a big factor, then yeah that's one downside to using the Mini-PCs compared to a SBC like the raspberry Pi. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PM_ME_DATASETS · 2023-09-29 09:55 Thanks I appreciate it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kdlt · 2023-09-29 10:35 If it's never available because 100000 people want it but they produce 50 a month, then yeah, they all sell like hotcakes, but it also means they're "disrespecting" their market but not even trying to produce adequate amounts. With that said I never really had any issue buying a Pi when I needed one save for some specific zero configs and even then you could get them at an insane Markup of +5€ to +10€ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dontquestionmyaction · 2023-09-29 11:23 Please just get a NUC instead. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dontquestionmyaction · 2023-09-29 11:29 Eh. When you need high availability of every component because you serve multiple thousand users it gets expensive and complex. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Embarrassed_Yak_9702 · 2023-09-29 12:07 How says he wants to use these for selfhosting? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Theon · 2023-09-29 12:11 Check the sub you're in ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Embarrassed_Yak_9702 · 2023-09-29 12:57 Epic facepalm. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- toikpi · 2023-09-29 14:23 From Jeff Geerling's blog on the Raspberry Pi. >**NVMe SSDs** > >... > >I was able to get about 450 MB/sec under the default PCIe Gen 2.0 speed, and very nearly 900 MB/sec forcing the unsupported Gen 3.0—almost exactly a 2x speedup. > >... > >**Network Cards** > >The signaling issues didn't seem to impact this Asus 10G NIC at all, however. To get it running, I recompiled the Linux kernel, adding in the proper Aquantia modules (see my guide). Once in place, the card was immediately recognized, and at PCIe Gen 3, I was able to get 5.5-6 Gbps. I presume there may be a 10G NIC out there that will squeeze out closer to 10 Gbps through a Gen 3 x1 link, but I haven't found it. [https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/testing-pcie-on-raspberry- pi-5](https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/testing-pcie-on- raspberry-pi-5) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sroundez · 2023-09-29 14:36 If I need a raspberry pi with 10GbE, I've done some requirement design or speccing improperly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- pablorocka · 2023-09-29 18:18 I know most of the comments are about specs, price, etc. but is it only me or anybody else noticed the poor audio quality in the intro video? a proper audio-compressor would have balanced the levels. As for the actual Pi itself, after the prices spiked, I ended up buying mini-PCs from Minisforum for my selfhosted, Pi is still a nice to have but I agree with a lot of people that it has lost its edge. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kylemsguy · 2023-09-29 21:52 125 in one year is an average of 10.4 per month. So very few. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corysus · 2023-09-30 20:05 For portability, RPi is a good option, but if you need more power, then IntelNUC is the better option. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Evening_Ticket6403 · 2023-10-09 18:38 doesnt matter how much we bash the pi 5, everyone on here will get a few ---------------------------------------------------------------------- techcode · 2023-12-02 10:46 Lenovo ThinkCenter, HP EliteDesk, Dell has some of the same. These days you can get refurbished ones with Ryzen 2400G\[E\], 3400G ...etc for 150 to 200 Eur - with 12 months warranty. And that's whole computer with SSD, PSU - 2 DP ports, WiFi, bunch of USB ports ...etc. that you can also somewhat game on. For specific example - ThinkCenter M715q with Ryzen 2400GE is using \~30W of power (PSU is like for laptops up to 65W) - but instead of ARM it's AMD64/X86, 16GB of SO-DIMM DDR4 (can go higher - at least 32GB but maybe 64GB), NVMe SSD and you can also add 2.5" SSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ThePixelHunter · 2023-12-02 12:35 Thank you!