What are advantages of IRC over Matrix? Why would someone want to create a new IRC chat over a Matrix one? reddit / irc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TheTwelveYearOld · 2023-08-22 05:44 I'm in the middle of reading comparisons between the two standards, I haven't found any specific advantages of IRC other than comments that its more simple / lightweight than Matrix and there can run on embedded or other low end hardware. On the other hand, Matrix is federated (is IRC too?) and seems much more modern. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gruetzhaxe · 2023-08-22 06:45 Matrix *is* much more modern. Afaik IRC servers don't encrypt or federate, at least without tweaks, so you only speak to people on the same server. But to some it may have its place. IRC has a certain retro vibe. Your Matrix account is universal and thus more tied to personal identity. On IRC you can't re-read the back log, you just drop in experimentally like on 4chan, vent and leave. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ProgVal · 2023-08-22 07:12 IRC won't fail to relay messages for hours without telling you, or fail to join channels for obscure reasons. On Matrix, this happens every other month. For example, [here is an issue about two homeservers failing to talk to each other](https://github.com/matrix- org/synapse/issues/14596), and it took 6 days for the operators (Element) to notice it. Almost core Matrix development is made by a single company, Element (AFAIK Matrix.org does not have employees itself; they are all Element employees). 7 out of 8 members of the [Spec Core Team](https://matrix.org/about/) are Element employees. They are currently [running out of money](https://matrix.org/blog/2022/12/25/the-matrix-holiday- update-2022/), and this is worrying for the network. IRC is developed by dozens of independent volunteers and a few small companies (IRCCloud and Sourcehut are probably the largest with 2-4 employees each); some of them are listed here: https://ircv3.net/charter IRC has plenty of clients, so you can use one that best fits your needs. Everyone need to use Element from time to time because other clients are lacking some important features. I have yet to find a Matrix client that fulfills mine: 1. packaged in Debian or reasonable set of dependencies 2. no noticeable input lag 3. low on memory 4. doesn't constantly move the room list on its own *and* makes it clear to me which rooms have new messages 5. doesn't show replied-to messages by default (or makes them less visible than the reply) 6. pilling should only need the tab key 7. High information density, ie. don't waste screen space. For example, compare Element and IRCCloud (one of the less information- dense IRC clients) showing the same room: https://raw.githubuserconten t.com/progval/matrix2051/assets/screenshot_element_irccloud.png gomuks comes closest, but it fails 4, 5, 6, and it needs an unambiguous prefix to pill. Many IRC clients don't display images in-line, so IRC users write text instead of posting screenshots. This is more accessible than other messaging systems because not everyone can read images. Matrix is extremely hard to moderate; current tools only work against incompetent spammers (fortunately, most of them are incompetent). If you look at Matrix HQ, there's someone spamming a Telegram link there almost every day, and it takes minutes to hours to have it removed (depending on UK business hours). Not to mention CSAM. These are never issues on IRC networks like Libera.Chat. > Matrix is federated (is IRC too?) Technically yes. In practice no, not anymore. You could write a federated IRC server with a new server-to-server protocol, but it would give you the same issues as Matrix federation. > and seems much more modern. There are different flavors of IRC. Check out [ergo.chat](https://ergo.chat/about-network) if you want a more modern IRC. When accessed from a modern client, you get persistence, chat history, replies, and reactions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ProgVal · 2023-08-22 07:23 > Afaik IRC servers don't encrypt or federate, at least without tweaks, so you only speak to people on the same server. On the same **network**. IRC Networks are made of multiple servers; and users usually don't have to care about what server they are on. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dancorbe · 2023-08-22 07:23 > IRC servers don't encrypt or federate, at least without tweaks Incorrect. > so you only speak to people on the same server. Incorrect. > On IRC you can't re-read the back log, Incorrect. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gruetzhaxe · 2023-08-22 11:07 Network, you’re right. Network. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SqualorTrawler · 2023-08-22 17:46 > Many IRC clients don't display images in-line I wasn't aware IRC supported in-client images at all. How does that work? Does it just parse URLs which link out to images (like on imgur) or is there something in the IRC standard which allows it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ProgVal · 2023-08-22 19:47 yes, it's just clients parsing URLs. Some clients (IRCCloud, The Lounge, Igloo) support uploading to their own servers too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bartop31 · 2023-08-24 18:27 the advantages you listed are the advantages. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- McGoodotnet · 2023-09-04 07:11 This was quite thorough. ​ I shall add "IRC ftw"