Why would someone use IRC over Reddit/Stackoverflow? reddit / irc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 03:42 So I was reading **ProGit** and it recommended using the IRC channel for questions/queries: ​ >These commands are nice because you can access them anywhere, even offline. If the manpages and this book aren’t enough and you need in- person help, you can try the #git, #github, or #gitlab channels on the Libera Chat IRC server, which can be found at https://libera.chat/. These channels are regularly filled with hundreds of people who are all very knowledgeable about Git and are often willing to help. In addition, if you don’t need the full-blown manpage help, but just need a quick refresher on the available options for a Git command, you can ask for the more concise “help” output with the -h option, as in: ​ ​ My question is, what benefit would I gain from using IRC over Reddit/Stackoverflow which is what I'm currently doing if I have questions. I've never used IRC before. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corcor · 2022-07-28 04:05 You’re comparing the use of a chat room vs a message board. So just think about those platforms and the pros and cons of them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 04:14 Hmmm, I don't know the difference between a chat room and a message board. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bongo_kip · 2022-07-28 04:20 what benefit would you gain from using Reddit/Stackoverflow over IRC? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 04:26 I've never used IRC, so I wouldn't know. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- anths · 2022-07-28 04:43 More or less, the model for IRC is “real time”, or close to it. Most conversations happen “live”, with a few seconds between responses. Certainly there are lower-traffic channels where that time gets extended, but the model remains a conversation. Reddit/StackOverflow are “asynchronous”; they’re more like old-school forums or bulletin boards (even physical ones). You’ll post a question, then come check back later. There is no “real time” expectation. Neither is better; they do different things. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 05:17 Ah I see. And people are there online to answer questions? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- anths · 2022-07-28 05:28 That’s the idea. Some channels are busier than others; if nobody’s around, you can wait for a response anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- u801e · 2022-07-28 05:41 An appropriate comparision would be IRC vs Slack or Discord. Or Usenet vs Reddit or Stackoverflow. I guess there may be some confusion because some of these products incorporate threading in a chat context (like Slack), and other products like web based email clients are trying to eliminate nested threads by using conversation view. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corcor · 2022-07-28 11:40 If you’re not sure about the differences you should google “what are the differences between a chat room and a message board” ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 12:22 You could've said: "One is synchronous and the other is asynchronous". Without being a dick about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corcor · 2022-07-28 12:38 You really need to learn how to finds things out yourself and not rely on others as your first instinct when you don’t know an answer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 12:53 Thanks for the advice chief. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corcor · 2022-07-28 13:31 Hope it helps 😜 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MrOtsKrad · 2022-07-28 14:45 Youve been Flamed.™ Welcome to IRC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 14:50 How lovely. Another boomer term I have to google. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nunsigoi · 2022-07-28 15:07 One benefit i think is IRC is unlikely to grow in popularity. The barrier for entry is higher since discord/slack/reddit have a far financial imperative to make joining/using easier. Irc was never monetised as well as newer platforms nowadays, and noone has any incentive to do so now. That can be a real benefit in some use cases. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MrOtsKrad · 2022-07-28 15:34 GenX actually if your looking to generationalize it , but I understand the sentiment. It is also pretty out of the ordinary for someone to not know the difference between a chat room and message board, but maybe theres a language barrier, or other explanatory situation. In any case, one day you'll be the older generation being asked something obvious by a younger generation, hopefully you'll choose to be cheerfully helpful rather than apathetically obtuse. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 15:52 > GenX actually if your looking to generationalize it , but I understand the sentiment. I know. But it makes Gen Xers unhappy when I lump them in with boomers ;) > It is also pretty out of the ordinary for someone to not know the difference between a chat room and message board, but maybe theres a language barrier, or other explanatory situation. I don't think the terms are used anymore, but I did spend my formative years in a country where English wasn't a first language so that may be why. > In any case, one day you'll be the older generation being asked something obvious by a younger generation, hopefully you'll choose to be cheerfully helpful rather than apathetically obtuse. Definitely felt that people here were being purposely obtuse. Maybe they don't want beginners joining in? I've been in a lot of internet communities (the vast majority being uber welcoming) but there are some like Arch Linux who pride themselves on being resistant to newcomers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 15:55 > One benefit i think is IRC is unlikely to grow in popularity. With the vast ocean of all the lovely and welcoming IRCers, it has me stumped why it's not more popular. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nunsigoi · 2022-07-28 16:02 Was that sarcasm? You asked what a benefit was. That could be a benefit - being unfriendly, exclusive and just annoying for newcomers is effective self-selection. There are definitely use cases where that’s desirable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 16:06 > Was that sarcasm? Not at all! > You asked what a benefit was. That could be a benefit - being unfriendly, exclusive and just annoying for newcomers is effective self-selection. There are definitely use cases where that’s desirable. Not the first community in the world that practiced that philosophy. I recall a toothbrush stached individual who employed it to great effect. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MrOtsKrad · 2022-07-28 18:10 > I know. But it makes Gen Xers unhappy when I lump them in with boomers ;) lol its true, but mostly because we were mentally and physically abused by boomers, so there's NO WAY we could ever resemble them ;) > I don't think the terms are used anymore, but I did spend my formative years in a country where English wasn't a first language so that may be why. The more i think about that, youre right, the closest thing I can think of is Discord, but that uses the term 'channels' which originated from IRC ironically, even the # proceeding it came from the CLI syntax to join a channel ala /join #mychatroom. And chatroom itself was more used for things like Yahoo! and AOL. I think they were trying to be ...explanatory, and showed their age lol > Definitely felt that people here were being purposely obtuse. Maybe they don't want beginners joining in? I've been in a lot of internet communities (the vast majority being uber welcoming) but there are some like Arch Linux who pride themselves on being resistant to newcomers. its something even back then I never really agreed with, and its a fad Ive been happy to see die for the most part except in Unix and Vegan circles :) But I understand. Its a desire for everyone to be self reliant and self teaching, doing it the way they did it, because its "clearly the only and best way it can be done!" Its A way to get things done, but its much more productive to get someone further by helping them up the mountain that shouting at them to learn to climb. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corcor · 2022-07-28 18:28 If learning to google is going up a mountain I don’t think this person has much hope for learning git ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 20:08 >lol its true, but mostly because we were mentally and physically abused by boomers, so there's NO WAY we could ever resemble them ;) Ahhh, I never thought of that! Our generation had much more decent parentage than you guys. ​ >its something even back then I never really agreed with, and its a fad Ive been happy to see die for the most part except in Unix and Vegan circles :) But I understand. Its a desire for everyone to be self reliant and self teaching, doing it the way they did it, because its "clearly the only and best way it can be done!" I am RTFM for Git. My googling skillz is pretty **far out** as well. It's just that I didn't know why Git was recommending their IRC channel. And googling didn't help either, there really isn't much information online about IRC. I definitely understand teaching someone self reliance. It's a very good skill to acquire. But then there is being rude and belligerent from the get go. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 20:10 I'd have been discouraged and demotivated from your words if you hadn't murdered an innocent koala and wore its dead skin as an avatar. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- corcor · 2022-07-28 21:03 Googling is a skill you need to practice it ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SqualorTrawler · 2022-07-28 21:08 Nevermind all of the ornery codgers. (Jesus Christ, guys.) IRC is federated. Most of it runs on open source, free software anyone can download and run, and these servers then connect to each other into networks, such that no matter which server on the network you join, you'll see all of the messages users on the other servers see, and vice versa. Sometimes people pick a server due to geographical proximity (and therefore lowest lag time / network reliability). There are, of course, many different networks with focuses and policies. Some are exclusive. Some border on near anarchy to the point of insanity (EFnet / Eris Free Net, for example.) Some are very ordered and well-moderated. (Libera). Many are in between. Some cater to gaming enthusiasts. Others to role playing types. There's even one centered around reddit communities (Snoonet). Chat rooms assume - or once assumed - that multiple people are at their keyboards at one time, having a back-and-forth conversations. In the old days of dial-up Internet, most ISPs would disconnect you from the Internet after a certain amount of idle time, so the idea was if you showed up in the list of users in a given channel, you were physically there reading, writing, and responding to messages. The modern variants are different: there's no indication a person is actively at the screen. You might write them a message and then hours or days or weeks later they might respond. IRC today is often used for support. I have a problem with a software package, let's say, and I pop on to the support IRC channel and there are people monitoring the channel and answering questions so I can have a real-time back and forth with them. Of course, it is also possible, and frequent now, that people log into an IRC channel and "idle" for sometimes months at a time - meaning they're logged in, their computer is connected, but they may not be at the keyboard. Originally this was much rarer, but since broadband always-on connections appeared, some IRC channels can be a lot like Slack or Discord. Discord is a private company. Discord is known to scan and monitor user interactions. It is known to kick people off for violating terms of service in terms of certain kinds of content. IRC servers tend to be hobbyist/private concerns (not always, but even the ones which are more organized tend to be more...anarchic). If Discord disappears, all of Discord goes with it. If your IRC server disappears, you can just join another in the same network. Or set up your own. There is no central "IRC" entity or server like there is for Discord. IRC is more DIY. More independent. And still more realtime. It is more anarchic and free-wheeling. Discord is less DIY (and much more polished). It does not rely upon always-on Internet connections and has a scrollback which goes...I don't know how far, but quite far. IRC does not have this built in. If you are gone for two weeks, you can't log into your favorite IRC channel and read the past two weeks of scrollback (although it is possible for people to voluntarily log the channel and paste text logs of what was said on, say, the Web.) Some people use various methods to stay logged in (terminal multiplexers, bouncers) which allows them to stay logged in and thus have whatever backscroll limits they want. Some stay logged in to log the channel. IRC dates from the late 1980s. It is built on assumptions for how people used the Internet back then. Some of these are good and some of these are a pain in the ass. The #1 reason I like IRC is it's not a corporate entity. Come whatever economic conditions, it will continue to exist, as it has for some 35 years. One other thing about IRC: There are 35 years of software clients, and therefore a lot of choice. Some IRC clients are text-mode for Unix(-like) shells and look like this: https://crabgrass.riseup.net/assets/9623/snap20.png Others are for Windows or Mac and look like this: https://www.snapfiles.com/screenfiles/mirc.gif There are clients for phones, too. Since IRC is a published protocol, there are many options. And then each of these clients have plugins, bots, scripting languages, and so on. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 21:32 Thanks a ton! ​ That's exactly what I was looking for. I do quite a bit of programming and IRC sounds like a cool way to get in contact with devs. ​ I think I'll be going with WeeChat. Seemed to have pretty good documentation. And that's a great thing, seeing as how some people become uppity if you have questions ;). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SqualorTrawler · 2022-07-28 21:43 I use weechat. It's definitely my favorite console-based client. Definitely check out libera.chat -- that's one of the big techie networks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DrSkoolie · 2022-07-28 21:48 Will do! I believe it's where everyone migrated after *freenode*. See you there :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- taylorbuley · 2022-07-28 22:04 Imagine it like having a Discord. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonno_FTW · 2022-07-29 04:35 If you can type your question into IRC/Discord/Reddit/Stackoverflow, you can type it into google and get an answer immediately. More often than not, if someone in one of those chat rooms or messages will put your question into google and tell you the answer that comes up. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- puppy_fan · 2022-07-31 01:01 I was on IRC at Carnegie Mellon almost 32 years ago. IRC had it’s day already.