The problem with #reddit. reddit / irc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-16 23:22 Hello everyone. As we have all noticed that in the last year the channel's integrity has degraded severely. What was once a channel that people were able to have conversations in has turned into fights and drama when people feel that they have been banned unfairly. With the understanding that irc is moderated differently than reddit.com several things need to be done to maintain the integrity of the channel. Several things need to be achieved in order to return #reddit into a place where conversation is open as it is on reddit.com. 1) A more formal set of structured rules. These include outlines of what behavior is acceptable and detailed explanations of why. Personal feelings and one's own prejudices should be left out of such rules. 2) A uniformed set of boundaries for both users of the channel and channel operators. Operators should not feel they are above the rules and should be held accountable for their actions just as they expect users to be held accountable for their actions. 3) A formal complain system against offending operators who violate such rules. Currently no complaint system exists against operators who violate policies and complaints fall on deaf ears. The admin who is active in the channel is unwilling to listen to complains and act upon them appropriately. 4) Operators who are found in constant violation of rules should be held accountable for their actions up to and including removal of operator privileges. In addition to these rule changes it is obvious that one operator is incapable of doing this. Over the last year bep "britishenglishpolice" has shown that while he may be a good moderator on reddit.com his inability to act without interference of personal and emotional behaviors have caused many problems with #reddit. A petition has been created for his removal and will be presented to the appropriate channels in addition with evidence that he is unable to to maintain an unbiased opinion opinion on matters in the channel. The petition can be found [here](http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/removebep/) Please share your feelings and thoughts on this matter. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnthraxyWaxy · 2011-01-17 00:12 It's an IRC channel. Seriously. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aperson · 2011-01-17 01:20 irc is srs bsns ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aperson · 2011-01-17 01:20 Ahahahahahaha ---------------------------------------------------------------------- otterdam · 2011-01-17 01:23 It used to be a good one, and it's also the official one for reddit. If you don't care how it's run then feel free to ignore the discussion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- apixoip · 2011-01-17 01:40 reddit does not own or run the irc servers hosting #reddit. until that changes, you're pissing into the wind. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- benburhans · 2011-01-17 03:04 This is not so. We, the operators of #reddit, some of whom are moderators here, are indeed concerned with the welfare of the most official channel that is affiliated with Reddit, and we strive to maintain a level of professionalism that recently has been neglected. We've recently implemented some changes, and we are drafting a long- standing collaborative document (some of you have seen it when we asked for community input on it) that defines both user and op policies and acceptable behavior guidelines for #reddit and any channels we endorse. We're going to be making a few changes in the coming days, and the quality of the content on #reddit should reflect that immediately. Hopefully the majority of the more mature users will approve, and we'll strive to keep improving our own internal affairs constantly. If you have any questions, feel free to seek me out on freenode; I'm always on #reddit, 24/7/365, under the nick "bburhans," and am always available for query (private message). If I don't respond immediately, don't take it personally; I am probably either away from IRC or momentarily busy in one of the couple hundred other channels I'm in. Thank you for your concern, and with your help, we can make the IRC experience better for everyone. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- apixoip · 2011-01-17 03:51 uh huh. i read what you typed, and i dont see how that changes the fact that youre using the freenode network for your official irc channel, and that you do not have jurisdiction over what goes on there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- benburhans · 2011-01-17 04:20 We have an official relationship with freenode, naming one person as primary liason and listing our channels' namespace as owned by Reddit. The network staff have final say in the content allowed on our channels but we call the shots as long as it's appropriate to do so (essentially, that means until our presence on freenode becomes unwelcome). However, Condé Nast really has no interest or knowledge of the goings- on here, and it's mostly irrelevant to them how we handle things; we do the best we can given the circumstances. If you'd like me to brief you on freenode policy and how groups work, I can do so; alternatively you can do some research at http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml Hope this clears that up a bit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- freenodestaff · 2011-01-17 06:22 lots of projects have an official presence on freenode. For the [most part](http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#offtopic), they have complete control over their channels and can make whatever policies they want ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 06:51 No one cares about your personal beef with BEP. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 08:56 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aperson · 2011-01-17 09:20 Bep should be taken off the mods list. He really does let personal biases get in the way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 09:44 If your complaint were in any way legitimate, you'd have gone through the proper channels with it, and it would have been taken seriously. As it stands, every single public display of disapproval towards BEP is entirely wasted, as it is usually done in poor taste or not done properly at all. If you'd like to know what the proper channels *are*, check out the [IRC help page](http://www.reddit.com/help/irc). Here, let me give you the relevant information: > Keep the personal personal. **Keep any personal conversations or issues with a specific user out of the channel**. Like any large collaboration there are bound to be differences of opinion and conflicts of personalities. Keep personal conflicts personal and limit them to private messages. Unfortunately, no one seems to want to follow this particular guideline. Why? Because the complaint isn't meant to be effective, it's meant to be annoying, and how can you be annoying most effectively? By being annoying publicly. So if you've got a problem, go to an op or the admin in charge of IRC *privately*. Don't post about it in here or in #reddit, as it will be *ignored*, and if you go about it publicly in the same way people have been going about it lately, you will be asked to stop. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aperson · 2011-01-17 09:51 You're looking at a #reddit-gov member and someone who has gone to other ops for resolution to this issue. Has any of that helped? no. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 09:54 Everything I've said stands. Don't bring your personal disputes public, it's right there in the guidelines. I'm not sure how much more specific it needs to be. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- apixoip · 2011-01-17 10:31 indeed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 13:05 I still maintain #reddit is beyond salvage, let them run it into the ground and move onto bigger and better things, well no so much bigger but definitely better things. Quitting as an op in #reddit is one of my better decisions. As of right now the only 2 ops who seem to want to resolve the issues and put an end to the unrest are otterdam and bburhans. Also please remember, the rules are there to make the channel civil and as such you have to apply them to the ops too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 13:07 you could always just /ignore those who annoy you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnthraxyWaxy · 2011-01-17 15:16 It's just that jesst has been going on and on and on about it in other channels, and, quite frankly, it's starting to ruin those channels, too. Really, my opinion on the whole thing is that it's like when you're around a group of people or simply in a room with a bunch of people. If you don't like it, leave. Problem solved. It's not like they can't make another channel, and some people actually have made new channels. It's as easy as that. At first, I did not think that jesst was just being angry because she no longer has Ops, which a lot of people argued. But now, with the amount of fervor jesst is using with this, I'm starting to agree with those arguments. It is not nearly as big a deal as jesst is making it out to be. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- otterdam · 2011-01-17 15:39 It is beyond salvage given the new ops Paradox is bringing on board Tip for the rest of you: the last admin that cared was KeyserSosa and he's gone. ketralnis is too busy to do anything beyond -dev (the only channel that really lives up to freenode's intention), and that is fine. But don't kid yourself that reddit cares about the IRC channel as an extension of the reddit experience. They don't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- otterdam · 2011-01-17 15:45 For half the ops that is true (and in this particular case is preaching to the choir). For the other half it's an excuse to get the complaint away and bury it. I know how these sausages are made, bub, don't delude yourself into thinking the rules can't be used for our benefit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 15:56 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 16:46 err, jesst stood down, as did i albeit a few days before her. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 16:52 yeah, 4 chan is that way mate ---> Also, go smoke some weed or something and chill out, being angry is a hazard to your health, and there are far far better things to be ragey over. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnthraxyWaxy · 2011-01-17 20:17 I know she stood down, but this really seems like being butt-hurt to me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bacon1989 · 2011-01-17 22:39 I think things change when the annoying user has the ban hammer, and upon getting emotional and angry, bans the person who raises a point against them. Plus, jesst is trying to raise the point that maybe we should change these guidelines, instead of trying to /ignore the problem? I'm confused as to why you're getting so worked up over this anyways, it's not like it will affect you in any way if things go smoothly, right? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bacon1989 · 2011-01-17 22:43 <----- and digg is that way ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-17 22:52 Personal disputes should *always* be handled privately, as per the IRC help page guidelines. There are other ops, and there is an admin in charge of IRC who *will* look into correctly logged complaints. As to changing these guidelines, I don't believe jesst wishes to change the, "handle your shit privately" part. And I'm not worked up, I hope I didn't come across as "worked up". I'm just calling it how I see it. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poop_in_yo_soup · 2011-01-19 14:52 I like the part where you blame it all on bep. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poop_in_yo_soup · 2011-01-19 14:57 That's something the operators of #reddit have been trying to do for a year now. It won't ever fully work. A good moderation bot is the best thing you could do for the channel, with two or three sane ops. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poop_in_yo_soup · 2011-01-19 15:01 How do I become a member of this #reddit-gov Mr. aperson? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- benburhans · 2011-01-20 20:22 Right now we monitor the channel with the bot and use it to manage bans that it places and that we place. The bot doesn't ban for language, etc. because of the capacity for error that only a human can accurately judge based on context. It does do a decent job of applying very temporary quiets for flooders and caps lock spammers, and it also reacts to join/quit floods. I'd like to think that our team is *mostly* sane. We've had issues in the past with some ops being too lenient and some being too (arbitrarily) strict, but we're improving by the day, if slowly. Ops have come and gone and I'm relatively proud of the folks that we currently have, but nobody's perfect. Here's to a better 2011 for #reddit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-01-22 20:42 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poop_in_yo_soup · 2011-01-23 15:55 bep is an idiot. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LycanElite · 2011-01-31 07:28 This is a standard thing across the internet since eternal september. The stupider users talk more so once the population increases the bell curve skews. If you parse all your logs I've said less then 200 lines over the last two months. If you ban all the people you are talking about. You would probably be swept out in the trash too. So shut it, reddit isn't some small community that when the same 1% did the same shit they do now you wouldn't notice. A 500 person irc channel is a shitstorm to maintain. You say no drama or emotion and here you are starting a petition and being that pain in the ass 1% of users. I've searched my logs for your name and it's 21,444 lines of you telling everyone about your remedial life. Here is the best of you, Thanks for contributing your 21k lines to #reddit: * jesst yawns finally home im so fricken tired im praying im off tomorrow does it burn wheny ou pee no, im comissioned .define comission <@redditalien> jesst: No definition for "comission" could be found. it means i only get paid if i sell something **btw bro, it's commission** the phone has been rining for 10 minutes i hate my job my legs just hurt my throat is sore I just found the part where you talk about your vagina for 45 minutes, that explains your post about "feelings and thoughts". I stopped there because now it makes sense why irc is practically your blog. You're the typical irc female that doesn't get banned because of that fact. You tell everyone about your pointless day and the only reason internet white knights listen is because you call attention to axe wound in between your legs every 16 seconds. Yes, I can read freenodes motd, file a petition and see how well that works. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-02-02 12:01 As a power user who has abandoned heavy irc usage a decade ago, finding this subreddit, and 'THIS' comment has brought on a wave of fearsome nostalgia. 1up. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lumponmygroin · 2011-02-05 03:09 The "child safe" is retarded, just let anyone do anything they want. I think a few simple rules could be laid out. no racism no flooding excessive trolling It's an IRC channel. IRC channels have always had their politics. Best to let it take it's own course and see where it ends up. It's close to impossible to moderate 24/7. Once you add a moderator in each time zone then you're handling complaints from users who have been banned from excessive operators. Flooding can be dealt with by the bot. Racism is just obvious. Excessive trolling is probably the tricky one but I'm sure people have common sense - if the person is annoying other people and being a general idiot then get them out of there no questions asked with no justifications - it's IRC. It seems people feed the trolls once they're banned by chatting to them in private then pasting the logs into pastebins. It's totally up to them and operators should just 100% ignore this. Basically put, it's IRC, who gives a flying fuck. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lumponmygroin · 2011-02-05 03:45 Wow, how professional. The matter still stands though.. It's just IRC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reddil · 2011-02-05 23:32 Britishenglishpolice is a fucking idiot and his inability to tolerate reality in a meaningful and sober manner prove to the world that the last generation of biggest failures on the planet shall see his parents as the #1 leading pair of nominees. It is true what they say: his parents should have never met. Unfortunately for the rest of the world; that happened The other thing they say is also true: upon meeting, they should have never had sex and her barren womb should have remained barren for the diseased fruit that it beared, being diseased, does nothing but weaken the human gene pool after being fertilized. And it having being fertilized by an even sorrier example of the human condition, the product was something truly embarrassing for humanity. Unfortunately, this happened. And alas, their final mistake was this: not having an abortion. Oh well. With great fortune the state of humanity will seek the dismemberment of this poor genetic mutation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ukdkbr · 2011-02-05 23:57 Lighthazard was the best op ever. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ukdkbr · 2011-02-05 23:59 [This image sums up #reddit](http://jesstsucks.ircisserious.biz) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-02-07 15:16 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2011-02-14 19:29 You're welcome to come along and talk to us in the (relatively new) official sex channel. Find us here: http://webchat.freenode.net/?randomnick=1&channels=reddit-sex&uio=d4 Or if you're using an IRC client, put "irc.freenode.net" in the server bit, and "#reddit-sex" as the channel. We're a nice bunch. :)