Linux user here. BSD caught my attention and I’m looking to try it out. Got any advice? reddit / freebsd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-11 10:10 I’ve been running Arch Linux as my daily-driver for a long time and it does everything I want just fine. I’ve heard that BSD is more stable, follows the original Unix philosophy more closely, that the developers are “better” (unsure what this means), and that it has less code compared to GNU/Linux. I’ve also heard that OpenBSD is the “secure” BSD, and that FreeBSD is more focused on performance and convenience. I’m a huge privacy and security enthusiast and a fan of minimalism and simplicity (hence why I use Arch) so the fact that BSD is apparently more minimal, organised and secure really caught my attention. I really wanna try it out as a daily-driver on one of my laptops. I just want a good and complete Desktop Environment like KDE and at the very least have access to the same software I have on Linux, hoping that package management isn’t a pain in the ass. My one question is which BSD I should go for? Apparently OpenBSD is the more secure one and I like that a lot but from my brief research it seems really old and crusty lookin’, it doesn’t even support wayland. Any advice on my plunge to the BSD world is highly appreciated. Thanks guys :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- olafkewl · 2022-11-11 10:33 If you're looking for a desktop BSD experience, give a try to GhostBSD. FreeBSD is also good for desktop, I wouldn't recommend OpenBSD for this usage, especially for a new BSD user. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-11 11:02 Yeah I’ve heard of GhostBSD before but completely forgot about it, I’m gonna check it out thanks! Would the stuff I learn from, say, FreeBSD also apply to OpenBSD if I wanna give that one a go later on? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EndSignificant4955 · 2022-11-11 11:10 FreeBSD is highly secure too by default, even you can make it more secure if you want it by manual system configurations, in general, all the BSD systems are tremendously secure by default. If you want to use it for desktop and do you like system crafting by yourself with every minimal configuration customized by you to squeeze every bit out your hardware (And GPU acceleration support too), FreeBSD is the way to go. [https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/desktop/](https://docs.fre ebsd.org/en/books/handbook/desktop/) On the other hand, you can try GhostBSD first (to familiarize yourself with FreeBSD) as it is FreeBSD preconfigured for desktop usage, ready to go: [https://ghostbsd.org/](https://ghostbsd.org/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- olafkewl · 2022-11-11 11:12 Mostly yes but configuration files and tools might not be the same ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-11 11:13 That sounds awesome. I might go for GhostBSD then to dip my toes first. Thank you very much for the response! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AccurateVictory · 2022-11-11 11:33 > I’ve been running Arch Linux as my daily-driver for a long time and it does everything I want just fine. I’ve heard that BSD is more stable Needless to say that FreeBSD marketing works very well. :) Tell me how Arch is unstable? The only thing annoying me with Arch is the amount of update due to being rolling-release, 1.5G per week if you have a loaded workstation, though you could keep it unsync for longer. Now, if you're using big components like Gnome/Plasma, the probability to break increase as they have so much moving parts and the most visible. You could argue that it would not break on FreeBSD but that's obvious, as it is not rolling. But give it a try, anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MadChipmunk · 2022-11-11 11:35 Try NetBSD, it's quite minimal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2022-11-11 11:35 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2022-11-11 11:36 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AccurateVictory · 2022-11-11 11:38 > FreeBSD is highly secure too by default, Cargo cult. In which sense is it? In which sense a default Debian, Fedora in a desktop fashion? Archlinux being something you assemble at your taste, it is to user responsibility of course, so I don't mention it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-11 12:05 I didn’t mean that it was more stable than Arch. I meant that I heard it was more stable than Linux in general. Arch for me is very stable. I’ve only ever had issues with god damn Firefox but that’s about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FinancialElephant · 2022-11-11 13:18 I mainly use arch too, but I started using freebsd on my server. Based on my experience, I think freebsd would be great with a desktop experience too. I watched a few videos a bsd desktop user [put out on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/c/iBSDTV). He installed freebsd and openbsd to his lenovo thinkpad laptops. He said that contrary to expectation openbsd was easier with the initial setup and freebsd required more configuration. However he did say that freebsd gave better performance than openbsd after it was configured. Also FreeBSD tends to support a wider set of hardware in general. Package management in FreeBSD is not a PITA, but the one downside is package availability is nothing like arch (arch users are spoiled on that front). I personally don't use ports (FreeBSD's source based package management) at all, I hear it's great though. As far as security goes, OpenBSD is definately better. However a lot of technologies have been shared between them, some of these relating to security. There is also no doubt FreeBSD can be very secure if you set it up to be. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- koiwacandy · 2022-11-11 15:52 > FreeBSD is highly secure too by default, There's an extensive article about how this is not true: https://vez.mrsk.me/freebsd-defaults.html And it's still very much up to date cc /u/Waltz2211 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- oakstave · 2022-11-11 15:55 OpenBSD is not old and it is by far the more minimalist of the two. It also isn't going to hold your hand and help you choose a Desktop if you don't like the one it comes with. FreeBSD comes with no graphical desktop at all, if you want to talk 'crusty'. You probably want to use something like GhostBSD which will give you a FreeBSD base with a desktop already added on top. (MATE, I believe.) They've already 'distro-ized' it for you and all the applications you'd likely need. Or you could build your own KDE box with FreeBSD as the base. I did this, and it was rather unstable, but that was at least two versions of FreeBSD ago. YMMV. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- oakstave · 2022-11-11 16:08 If you have the right hardware, OpenBSD is a great desktop. If you are talking about a Thinkpad, OpenBSD is the perfect choice. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zeno · 2022-11-11 16:45 I like FreeBSD even for desktop. It requires more configuration but it's still the most mainstream of the BSDs and the most likely to find documentation on. I usually do FreeBSD with DWM to be minimalist. If you don't have a laptop already, any Lenovo desktop one or 2 generations behind work well. I have a X1 Carbon Gen 6 and it runs amazingly well on it. I would love it if bluetooth and the fingerprint reader would work on it but they are not deal breakers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vermaden · 2022-11-11 16:45 I recently made short comparison of OpenBSD and FreeBSD. Here it is: - https://twitter.com/vermaden/status/1590616608132587520 - https://twitter.com/vermaden/status/1590617702103937024 Advantages of FreeBSD: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/ ... and if you want security oriented FreeBSD then try HardenedBSD: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2018/04/06/introduction-to- hardenedbsd-world/ Regards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bawdyanarchist · 2022-11-11 17:38 FreeBSD is the most stable system I've ever used. In almost every single case that something screws up and I have to restart, it's because I was dorking around with something that caused it. But just sitting steady state, normal use? I've almost never had a system crash. Sometimes a jail will give me problems, usually when I'm trying new/complex stuff. So IIUC, Arch is very much a built it yourself kind of thing. So you know about system components, and all that jazz. You're probably capable in a command line, and you like customization. In which case, you should go with FreeBSD, 100%. It's a bare bones OS, incredibly versatile, and able to be morphed into basically anything you want. You install your own graphical and desktop environment from scratch. It comes inbuilt with jails, which are wonderful security containers to isolate certain activities and give you a testing area so you can experiment without touching your main system. It also comes with a native VM manager (bhyve), but it isn't the easiest most straightforward thing to use. Jails are much easier. You could go with OpenBSD, but it's a security focused distro, and solid security often means locking down programs and versatility. The fewer paths and options you have, the less you can pwn yourself accidentally. Personally, my setup looks like this: - 24 core Ryzen Threadripper with 64GB RAM, and RTX 2080 - FreeBSD 13.1 (I always stay on RELEASE) - Xorg, with i3wm for my graphical environment - All work is done in jails. I run browsers, office suite, data analysis, torrents, Krita (image editor), Blender, and I run dozens of tabs on TradingView 24/7. The only sore point for me personally, is that Nvidia basically refuses to make CUDA available on their damn graphics cards for FreeBSD. Luckily my 24 core processor helps make up for it, but it's still a major annoyance. I guess also, there's the problem with not being able to run DRM protected content, because FreeBSD devs have too much principles to enforce copywrong on behalf of the media giants. So I can't get Netflix or Spotify. There are workarounds, and I gave it a little stab, but I gave up quickly. Hopefully that gives you an idea of what to expect. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- edthesmokebeard · 2022-11-11 17:55 Ignore what you've heard about OpenBSD and FreeBSD, if you dont KNOW if you need either, then the differences are irrelevant. It's a philosophical change from modern Linux. If you "like" systemd, you might not like FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s-ro_mojosa · 2022-11-11 18:15 > I’m a huge privacy and security enthusiast and a fan of minimalism and simplicity (hence why I use Arch) so the fact that BSD is apparently more minimal, organised and secure really caught my attention. I switched to [Gentoo Linux](https://www.gentoo.org/) for security and minimalism. If you have a strong Linux background, you might want to take a look at it. If you're put off by the fact that it's a source- based distro, know that you can setup a binhost that builds your binaries for you. The power of Gentoo is the ability to turn build options on and off by passing in [flags](https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/USE_flag) at install time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-11 18:20 Yeah tbh I was thinking about Gentoo as my “next step” but now that I learned about FreeBSD I’m eager to try that out too. I actually just tried to install it lmao and it’s giving me a headache but I guess it’s part of it haha. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s-ro_mojosa · 2022-11-11 18:28 > I actually just tried to install it lmao and it’s giving me a headache but I guess it’s part of it haha. Obviously, make whatever decision you think best. Try both and see what sticks. If you're having issues with installing Gentoo, feel free to pop onto the `#gentoo` IRC channel. They're very helpful. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-11 18:36 Oh I meant FreeBSD is giving me a headache. It’s… odd. Gentoo I think I’d feel kind of at home because it’s Linux and I had a look at the documentation and it’s *fantastic*. I’m finding the documentation on FreeBSD kind of irritating because it doesn’t actually explain anything, it assumes you know everything and literally goes like “hey here’s this thing which we assume you already know and will proceed to explain nothing about it”. And because it’s such a niche niche OS I can barely find anything online 💀 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- morte9000 · 2022-11-11 18:51 I use FreeBSD and OpenBSD on a laptop from 2015 or something like that, it performs well, package management is super easy, you'll have to do some configuration before having a full desktop, but it's worth the time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mins00 · 2022-11-11 20:00 In my experience, this is true. I've used Linux and FreeBSD in production for the last 10 years. FreeBSD is certainly more secure (you Still need VM isolation for container security versus Solaris zones and FreeBSD jails), and I've had many more instances of crashing on relatively vanilla Linux platforms. This is partially anecdotal of course, but it is enough to make me FreeBSD for life. Seriously, if FreeBSD stopped being an entity, I would give up on tech as a hobby entirely because tech life would be so much worse =) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2022-11-11 20:01 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- implicitpharmakoi · 2022-11-11 20:55 FreeBSD is well rounded, an easy move over, just going to need scripts/aliases to translate your muscle memory (package install, etc) over. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IanArcad · 2022-11-11 20:57 Running KDE apps on Linux or BSD will be basically the same. There's no real reason to switch if that's what you're going to do. However you want to set up a home file / compute server or a development server, then BSD is your best and really your only alternative. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-11 22:14 Please, not that one *again* :-( > up to date https://old.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/tqmqdf/-/i346cpl/?context=2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AccurateVictory · 2022-11-11 22:20 > I meant that I heard it was more stable than Linux in general. It does not mean anything. Linux is not one distro only and stability does not act on one level. Most source of instability would come from Desktop/GPU if you live on the edge and on freebsd, you don't even need to be on -current. A debian as webserver, application server is not less stable , nor more (beside as an hypervisor), stable than a FreeBSD (vice/versa). Note that I prefer how FreeBSD is governed, how tidy the project is but, that's not enough to make a move as it is lacking on what is crucial to me. I can use (*)linux from top (workstation/desktop) to down (server/embedded) . And nope, I don't see the point to have many different OSes, when one suits every aspect of my tech life and is FOSS. Anyway, give it a try but don't believe the hype, too much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-11 22:26 > … heard that OpenBSD is the “secure” BSD, [OpenBSD: Project Goals](https://www.openbsd.org/goals.html) > and that FreeBSD is more focused on performance and convenience. "… features, speed, and stability. …". > I’m a huge privacy and security enthusiast … ### Security [FreeBSD Journal DE : September/October 2022](https://issue.freebsdfou ndation.org/publication/?m=33057&i=766755&ver=html5) * via [Journal | FreeBSD Foundation](https://freebsdfoundation.org/our-work/journal/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- keybwarrior · 2022-11-11 23:28 Way too minimal for what op wants. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Univox_62 · 2022-11-12 01:49 It annoys me that Netflix doesn't run on FreeBSD considering they use it (or did at one time) for their streaming servers. Assholes... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Playful-Hat3710 · 2022-11-12 01:53 Based on what you wrote you about KDE and up to date software should give FreeBSD a shot, probably in a VM first. Give it time to understand how it works. Free, Open, and NetBSD are all separate operating systems with different goals and philosophies. FreeBSD is definitely the most used of the three. Package management is easy on FreeBSD. Whichever you choose depends on your hardware and what you want to do with it. I've installed all three in VM's and on hardware and they're all fun to use for different reasons. > Apparently OpenBSD is the more secure one and I like that a lot but from my brief research it seems really old and crusty lookin’, it doesn’t even support wayland. You can install other DE/WM and make it look nicer than the default. FWIW I like OpenBSD's CWM and use it on different operating systems. And yes, OpenBSD is by default secure, but once you start using 3rd party packages and doing unsafe things online how "secure" you are changes. You can make any OS secure/insecure. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- itspronouncedx · 2022-11-12 02:34 This might get downvoted but honestly, if you want a nice desktop, stick with Linux. TL;DR most desktop software is designed with Linux and increasingly systemd in mind, making the BSDs second-class citizens for desktop computing. Wayland support is iffy. Although technically nothing in Wayland requires anything specific to Linux or systemd, the official reference libraries are [very Linux- and systemd-centric](http://blog.netbsd.org /tnf/entry/wayland_on_netbsd_trials_and) (especially libinput which relies on systemd-udev), so they have to be hacked to work on FreeBSD (again using libinput - FreeBSD hacks it to use their own devd instead of udev). Naturally, NetBSD and OpenBSD don't have Wayland support at all because of this, and because those two projects (especially OpenBSD) focus on code cleanliness, there's no interest for a hacky Wayland implementation. NetBSD even has a [wiki page nitpicking D-Bus](https://wiki.netbsd.org/projects/project/desktop- infrastructure/)!! ~~KDE in FreeBSD is stuck on 5.24LTS because 5.25 introduced [some reliance on PAM](https://www.phoronix.com/news/KDE-Plasma-525-FreeBSD- Struggle) which isn't really available for FreeBSD yet.~~ (Not true anymore, see replies...) KDE is also starting to become [dependent on systemd](https://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/plasma-and-the- systemd-startup/) - officially optional for now, but we all know how that goes, so don't expect even second-class KDE support for long. OpenBSD's "most secure OS" reputation comes from their commitment to extreme code cleanliness and focus on not just innovating new security features, but having them enabled by default and difficult to turn off. OpenBSD only looks old because they ship a barebones window manager from the 90s - FVWM. You can install a nicer wm, or use a more portable desktop like XFCE or MATE. GNOME is available but KDE is not- ironically KDE has a much stronger dependence on Wayland than GNOME does, yes even for the X11 session KDE still needs the [Wayland librar ies](https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20210124113220). Other problems with FreeBSD on the desktop include the poor state the graphics drivers are in, and Wi-Fi being a pain in the ass. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bawdyanarchist · 2022-11-12 03:12 All of my problems could be solved by passing a secondary GPU to a Linux VM. But it's apparently a bitch and a half. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-12 03:25 Yeah thanks for the advice. I’ve spent all of last night trying to install it and learn the basics, and while it seems great *on paper*, I actually ran into several issues, such as my trackpad not being recognised at all, realising Bluetooth is not a thing in BSD, etc. So as much as I love the idea of it, all of that “tidiness” and supposed other advantages over Linux don’t really have an apparent effect on my use-case, but I do get impacted by the negatives already. That being said I’m really curious about the software, and I’m gonna keep trying to make it as usable as I can and THEN compare it to my Arch experience. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Univox_62 · 2022-11-12 03:27 I run debian linux and recently Disney+ stopped working for me. Had the tech online for like an hour with the result being her passing the ticket higher up the food chain...never heard back. Checked here on reddit and found a thread with people in the same boat. Solution turned out to be installing a "user-agent" extension in Chrome browser and switching the settings to "Chrome on Win10". I haven't run FreeBSD in a long time...I wonder if it would work? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-12 03:32 Sure, I understand that. That’s why I like to keep my digital life as minimal as possible, I only install what I need and I try to harden Firefox myself and obviously use common sense. Do you know if OpenBSD has all those security features enabled by default? It claims on the website it tries to be the #1 most secure OS in the world but is that out of the box? I’m asking because, even though I use Arch Linux I’m not a very technical person, and I don’t have the knowledge and skills to harden the OS myself, which is why I would prefer one that had all of that sorted for me out of the box. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Univox_62 · 2022-11-12 03:38 Hah! Just found out no Google chrome for FreeBSD. Just tested "user- agent" switcher in Firefox and it works. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bawdyanarchist · 2022-11-12 03:43 Funny enough, I fixed this exact problem on my gf laptop last night. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-12 03:44 Thank you so very much for taking the time out of your day to write up this comment. A lot of useful information here. I pulled an all-nighter trying to get FreeBSD to work, I can definitely see how simple it is but the documentation assumes you’re already a seasoned computer scientist and know everything. Instead of explaining in detail what each and every option does, it kind of goes over *a lot of it* and I’m left not understanding wtf I did when I installed it. And that I *don’t like.* The code can be clean and tidy but if I don’t even know how I set up my own computer down to every switch and option I chose in the install process I don’t feel comfortable using it. And I could barely, BARELY find anything online that would explain these things because it seems like everyone that uses BSD is already a very technical individual. I’m not. I’m just a kid that learned to use Arch last year because I hate Windows and wanted to move away from it and the Wiki is *fantastic.* I think I might give OpenBSD a shot because the installation processes seemed much more simple and, apparently from what I heard, the documentation is supposed to be really good. Overall you’re probably right about the fact that I should stick with Linux. But everything I heard about the BSDs got me real curious, and I just wanna get one up and running and make it as usable as possible and *then* compare it to my Arch experience. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- larsaskogstad · 2022-11-12 07:27 >o Does that work on fbsd? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- larsaskogstad · 2022-11-12 07:31 You should go for FreeBSD , try it out , watch a few youtube videos before you install it even if it's quite a good installer. Don't try it out in a VM, do a proper install. You will find out it feels great, stable as a horse and makes your life better in every way ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-12 07:34 Unfortunately I installed it on bare metal (one of my old laptops) and I found the installer (and the guide) to be confusing for someone who isn’t actually technical. The guide didn’t explain what some options were in detail and I couldn’t find information online for some stuff so I ended up getting it and KDE up and running but I’m not sure how I feel about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:03 FreeBSD is being actively used, deployed & developed by NetFlix -- to some pretty serious extremes. How does ̶4̶0̶0̶G̶b̶ 800Gb/s from a single server sound to you? [https://people.freebsd.org/\~gallatin/talks/euro2022.pdf](https://peo ple.freebsd.org/~gallatin/talks/euro2022.pdf) Watching NetFlix video (DRM/Widevine) is hardly a challenge: [https://github.com/mrclksr/linux-browser- installer](https://github.com/mrclksr/linux-browser-installer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:05 I have FireFox, Chrome, Iridium & Ungoogled-Chromium installed and run them all regularly. UA-switch works fine on all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:05 We are getting closer to fully functional passthru... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:06 Where's the difficulty? [https://github.com/mrclksr/linux-browser- installer](https://github.com/mrclksr/linux-browser-installer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:09 Everything works on my 2019 XPS 9380 laptop. Haven't been bored enough to look at the fingerprint reader just yet. Doubt I'll ever have a need for it tho. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:25 Paranoid about security? OpenBSD. I would recommend you try NomadBSD first. Excellent live USB deployment, which makes it super easy to get your toes wet & find your bearings around FreeBSD. Once you get the hang of things, switch to a clean FreeBSD 13 / 14-CURRENT installation. Either option up there \^\^\^ is far from old/crusty/lacking. What's wrong with Xorg? OpenBSD uses its very own version of X -- in a move to address any vague X11 security concerns. In fact OpenBSD is often ahead of FreeBSD when it comes to Intel DRM video drivers for X. Wayland runs with scarcely an issue on FreeBSD. Try FreeBSD + SwayOS [https://swayos.github.io/](https://swayos.github.io/) Wayfire works great too. We got fully featured vanilla GNOME & KDE5 in pkgs/ports too. Literally 0 pain in the ass, at all. A fully functioning desktop clean install with all the glossy composer effects & web browsing can be had in under 15 minutes on a Dell XPS 9380 from 2019. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:27 KDE5 is really stable lately. Haven't managed to break it in a long time now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:30 You should try NomadBSD [https://nomadbsd.org/](https://nomadbsd.org/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:31 You always do excellent work! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-12 09:36 Yeah I installed FreeBSD 13.1-RELEASE and it was fine. It felt very minimal and simple but a little unpredictable for me because I am not familiar with it. I tried installing some of the basic programs I use on Linux and a lot aren’t available, like gnome disks, basic gui utilities like that. And when I install software I see a lot of messages about tons of packages having no maintainers, something I read about but didn’t know it was this prevalent. On paper it seems great but if software availability is gonna be an issue I’m probably just gonna stick to Linux until this becomes better. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thindil · 2022-11-12 09:39 I agree, the installation and configuration process of FreeBSD as a desktop is a nightmare, especially if you compare with any Linux distribution. Even that advanced like Gentoo or Arch. That's why I join the others and recommend trying GhostBSD. ;) Its experience is very close to FreeBSD, but it is a desktop-oriented system, so the installation process should be easier. Some tricks which could help you with installation and configuration of the system: * If you insist on trying FreeBSD, install package [desktop- installer](https://www.freshports.org/sysutils/desktop-installer/): `pkg install desktop-installer` and run it after installation. It should greatly reduce problems with configuration. * When looking for solutions for problems, the best place is probably Reddit, official forums or wiki. For some reasons, even Google sometimes fails to find a proper solution. Use the built-in search option, especially on the forum. * Another source of documentation: Arch Wiki. :D Surprisingly, a good deal of information there works on FreeBSD, too. * Sometimes man pages have wanted information too. To be honest, FreeBSD has a lot more information inside man pages than Linux. That's probably the reason why FreeBSD's wiki looks so bad. ;) P.S. About your post-installation problems: Wi-Fi is known to cause issues, mainly because the current state of drivers on all operating systems is bad. Almost all new drivers are only closed source, and manufacturers, for obvious reasons, don't provide FreeBSD drivers. But there is a project to use Linux Wi-Fi drivers on FreeBSD. Unfortunately, very early stage, thus not user-friendly. About Bluetooth, I disagree, I'm using Bluetooth header set without any problems, also other people reported successes with Bluetooth things. Just again, the biggest problem is to find the information. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- thesunexpress · 2022-11-12 09:42 I'm a 20+ years desktop/server user of FreeBSD, any time I "have to" use Linux for something, I use Arch... which should tell you alot about interoperability. In fact, any time I have some sort of GUI conundrum, I tend to look for solutions in the Arch Wiki. FreeBSD documentation is extensive & without comparison or equal. It just requires careful reading & understanding. In fact in fact, I often find myself understanding the FreeBSD man/docs better after following some tips found in the Arch Wiki. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vermaden · 2022-11-12 10:04 I try :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IanArcad · 2022-11-12 10:04 Not the guy you replied to, but yes I've commented on this problem too - you get into situations where you have to already know FreeBSD to install and set up FreeBSD. The way out of that cycle is to get help from the community and in my experience they've always been very helpful, even to the point of very detailed explanations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IanArcad · 2022-11-12 10:08 Thanks for posting - didn't know you were on twitter and I will definitely follow. Your blog page on cpu frequency really helped me out a few weeks ago. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bawdyanarchist · 2022-11-12 15:17 Try doing it in a jail. The last time I followed a guide (earlier this year), being in a jail was a show stopper. I'm sure not for someone else who really knows what they're doing, but it was for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Playful-Hat3710 · 2022-11-12 16:23 >Sure, I understand that. That’s why I like to keep my digital life as minimal as possible, I only install what I need and I try to harden Firefox myself and obviously use common sense. I'm not sure there's not much more you need to do if you're doing all of those things. Arch linux, FreeeBSD, OpenBSD will all work for you. As I said, based on what you wrote, FreeBSD seems like the best choice. I'm not a security expert. OpenBSD promotes itself as being secure, and some of it's users online certainly promote it as "more secure" than any other OS. If your browser is up to date and so is your software, and you use common sense, you shouldn't run in to problems whether you use Free or Open. Here's some random links that helped me with both OS's: https://sohcahtoa.org.uk/openbsd.html https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/ https://www.youtube.com/c/RoboNuggie https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ezmiller_2 · 2022-11-12 21:29 Yeah I’m installing right now and am at the hardening step lol. I’m just a regular home user who isn’t afraid of troubleshooting. I have never learned to code, but am going to take some PLC classes this winter. For me, the thing that got old with Gentoo is getting the flags set just right. I don’t care which ones they are or need—it’s just irritating. Give me Slackware or something simple any day over setting flags. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-12 22:11 I’ll tell ya what, I’m tempted to just use something stupid easy like Fedora 37 when it comes out, I love learning about these OSes but if they make the process that much harder idk. I ended up switching back to Linux for now because I couldn’t get some really basic software on FreeBSD. Though I’m tempted to give it another try when I have the time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- larsaskogstad · 2022-11-12 22:27 What are your usual preferences? Coming from Linux,Apple,Windows? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Waltz2211 · 2022-11-12 22:29 I’m coming from Arch Linux, with KDE Plasma as well. I just want a desktop where I can have the same basic GUI utility software like Gnome Disks (which I couldn’t get on FreeBSD). Other than that I just use Firefox for most of my work. I’m also really concerned with the fact that so many packages were abandoned and didn’t have maintainers… ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vermaden · 2022-11-12 22:59 I am on many places. Also on - recently more popular Mastodon (bsd.network) if that is needed :) Glad to know that it helped. Regards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-13 08:26 > try NomadBSD https://nomadbsd.org/ Not at this time. [Rebase on FreeBSD 13.1 · Issue #114 · nomadbsd/NomadBSD](https://github.com/nomadbsd/NomadBSD/issues/114) – "[We're almost ready for a RC1. Please be patient for another few days .](https://github.com/nomadbsd/NomadBSD/issues/114#issuecomment- 1310866711)" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-13 08:30 > Where's the difficulty? From the linked page: >> You can't run different Linux chroots at the same time. … ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-13 08:35 > … try NomadBSD first. … No, please see https://old.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/ys6gx5/-/iw6e6l2/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-13 08:37 > … back to Linux for now Fair enough. Thanks for honesty :-) > because I couldn’t get some really basic software on FreeBSD. … I'll take a look at your . ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-13 08:57 > … gnome disks, … Yeah, the absence of anything like this is a weak point for FreeBSD. | I tend to use GPT fdisk – [sysutils/gdisk](https://www.freshports.org/sysutils/gdisk/). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-13 08:57 > … packages having no maintainers, … Don't be unnecessarily alarmed by this. for example, click the version number of any recently updated port. Currently at the head of the list: **node** (V8 JavaScript for client and server). The Codeberg view of yesterday's update: * ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-13 09:09 >… KDE in FreeBSD is stuck on 5.24 … Not entirely. Recently shared in the #freebsd-desktop channel: https://preview.redd.it/lpz1u21n6qz91.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=w ebp&v=enabled&s=8ccbc7c4ada0197578e9cdeacf7e987608f299c3 * KDE Plasma **5.26.3** on FreeBSD 13.1-RELEASE-p3 * credit: [fluffy](https://people.freebsd.org/~fluffy/). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-13 09:12 > because 5.25 introduced some reliance on PAM … As far as I know, that July article no longer applies. Instead, see the quarterly status report for the period ending 30th September. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- itspronouncedx · 2022-11-13 09:33 Oh, that's good to know. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ezmiller_2 · 2022-11-13 16:14 Yeah I like Fedora. Easy, just works. Compared to Red Hat, Fedora just works better. I keep trying RH since they are giving free updates with a developer subscription, which is also free. But I object to being forced to use nouveau drivers over Intel drivers. Having that happen, my whole experience after install is….slow and bloated. Takes me back to the early days of when I started using Linux and BSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Diligent_Ad_9060 · 2022-11-18 22:03 Stealing attention from the main topic here, but I'm curious. Have you managed to dual boot Open- and FreeBSD with full disk encryption? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- morte9000 · 2022-11-19 01:32 I have two separate ssd's, I removed the optical drive and I just use the laptop's boot options (press F12 to select the drive) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lonely_Mechanic8161 · 2022-11-20 16:16 How did he installed 5.26.3? Compiled from source? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-22 10:25 From source, I guess (it's not packaged in a FreeBSD-provided repo). I don't know the origin. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-11-24 08:50 > … realising Bluetooth is not a thing in BSD, … It _is_ a thing in FreeBSD – [sdpd\(8\)](https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/m an.cgi?query=sdpd&sektion=8&manpath=FreeBSD), and so on – however the absence of a GUI makes FreeBSD-based systems less appealing than, say, Manjaro. This is interesting: * [Using blued on FreeBSD to Pair Bluetooth Devices](https://old.reddi t.com/r/freebsd/comments/x7fo8a/using_blued_on_freebsd_to_pair_bluetoo th_devices/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cfx_4188 · 2022-12-03 23:37 It is possible to make a modern operating system safe by following a number of rules and making some adjustments. Even if there is a safe-as-a-security operating system, I think this is achieved by strictly limiting the freedoms of the user of such a system. BSD is a bit faster due to better optimization of the program code. I've tried Midnight, Ghost,Fury, PC-BSD, and many other distributions with a stitched visual shell. There are also plenty of scripts that you can use to get KDE or Gnome or Xfce onto your system. Right now, I consider all of this to be "thinking for hire". I think Freebsd needs the most minimalistic shell to run the usual "household" programs. But I know people who look at the Internet with text browsers and use Midnight Commander as a shell. And these people are happier than I am. Installing visual environment is a matter of twenty minutes.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- patmaddox · 2022-12-21 23:18 When you say “all work is done in jails”, are you running desktop apps in separate jails? I don’t get how that would work, since I assume there’s on desktop running at a time… but I have used desktop FreeBSD for a total of about 5 minutes. Or is it like, you have a single desktop, and then you open terminals to run other commands in specific jails? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bawdyanarchist · 2022-12-21 23:36 In case you're not familiar, FreeBSD jails are security containers, and were the first instance of a simulated operating environment. Before things like docker or VMs. It's not a VM, the separation is done in the kernel; but it's designed specifically for security. Everything is locked away from any jail until you permission it on the host system. But overall, it's basically very similar to a VM. So I run my system in a way that you would run Qubes. I have gateway jails for tunneling to my VPNs, and I have security zones for different types of activity. For example: - I have a jail specifically for social media (reddit, FB, Twitter, etc) - A jail for messaging apps like Telegram, IRC, Matrix - A jail strictly for random browsing/searching. This jail is disposable, meaning that when I shut it down, every part of that jail is destroyed. (Just in case I got into some malware). - I have a jail for corporate stuff like purchases, where I might input my credit card. No social media, no random browsing in this jail. I run i3wm for graphical environment. In fact, if you really want to undestand what kind of system I'm running, the truth is that I custom built all of this from scratch, and built scripts to handle all of my jail operations, like creating new jails, running commands in side of jails, launching a disposable jail on an underlying template (for opening questional attachments/files), etc. It's all in #!/bin/sh ; and I have it on Github, if you want to take a look. Fair warning, I'm in the middle of a big code refactor and expansion. There was an installer script that would re-create my system on your own, but with the refactor, that install script won't work. If you're savvy, you can probably get some mileage out of it. Probably another couple months at least before I release version 1.0. https://github.com/BawdyAnarchist/quBSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- patmaddox · 2022-12-21 23:54 I use jails all the time, in a terminal context. What I’m struggling to understand is how I can run GUI apps in separate jails, and have them appear on the same desktop. Because here’s how I’m interpreting this (and it would be insanely cool): # login to host # startx # open terminal app # jexec editor-jail emacs # jexec browser-jail firefox So I am looking at a single desktop, with three windows: terminal is running in the host context; emacs is running in a jail context; firefox is running in a different jail. But all displayed on the same desktop at the same time. Is that what you do? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bawdyanarchist · 2022-12-22 02:05 That's exactly what I do. At the moment I'm have 3 monitors with 6 windows open under 3 different jails and one window is host. Here's what my "desktop" looks like. https://prnt.sc/uTL0yUj15q1M GUI jails are simple enough. Here's a quick guide I wrote about what you need to do to get GUI jails working https://forums.FreeBSD.org/threads/linuxulator-how-to-install-brave- linux-app-on-freebsd-13-0.78879/post-544610 I wish I could tell you to just install my GUI jails turnkey solution, but I'm still working on making it smooth/installable as a FreeBSD package. I call it "quBSD" because it emulates Qubes. Check out my github tho, if you're savvy on shell script. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- patmaddox · 2022-12-22 06:04 Oh that’s awesome, thanks!