What would be long run influence of PR "Linux containers on FreeBSD #7000" being merged? reddit / freebsd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CoolTheCold · 2022-06-25 10:58 With pretty impressive work of both `runj` and `containerd`, PR "Linux containers on FreeBSD" ( https://github.com/containerd/containerd/pull/7000 ) >This allows running Linux containers on FreeBSD and modifies the >mounts so that they represent the linux emulated filesystems, as per: >https://wiki.freebsd.org/LinuxJails was merged couple of weeks ago, what you think it will bring into the ecosystem? Goodies like * iXsystem TRUENAS back to FreeBSD, other vendors may consider too * compatibility with modern dev / deployment stack and users/developers attention as result * FreeBSD back to game for Web stack & services or Bad things like: * just one more platform to run images, neglecting platform specific advantages (if any) * going into Dark Side Mind blowing (for me) test: $ sudo ctr run --rm --runtime wtf.sbk.runj.v1 --tty --snapshotter zfs docker.io/library/alpine:latest test sh -c 'cat /etc/os-release && uname -a' NAME="Alpine Linux" ID=alpine VERSION_ID=3.16.0 PRETTY_NAME="Alpine Linux v3.16" HOME_URL="https://alpinelinux.org/" BUG_REPORT_URL="https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/issues" Linux 3.17.0 FreeBSD 13.1-RELEASE releng/13.1-n250148-fc952ac2212 GENERIC x86_64 Linux ``` ---------------------------------------------------------------------- implicitpharmakoi · 2022-06-25 12:10 I love it, beats doing it manually. Opening up docker and other modes would make my life easier. Still not sure it's enough to help move the needle for most though, sadly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CoolTheCold · 2022-06-25 12:15 What's your area to use Docker for? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CoolTheCold · 2022-06-25 12:19 What makes it be different/better then staying with completely FreeBSD tooling like some Bastillie based templates? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- implicitpharmakoi · 2022-06-25 12:49 Honestly every now and then I want to add a really simple app that isn't popular or well-supported and this way I can get it running without the effort I'd put in to actually install something properly. It's less often since I switched to fbsd and jailed everything, but for some things there's a cost/reward tradeoff, and I just want to test it out before doing the work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xplosm · 2022-06-25 15:57 For one, despite fragmentation and seemingly tons and tons of Linux based platforms, they all run the same kernel and that's a lot of surface. That's the main selling point of docker/containerd based applications. And it's a reality that it works. Even non Linux platforms like Windows and Mac have embraced it simply to not be left out of a slice of the cake. Although with less performant solutions like relying on VM technology but it simple a means for staying relevant in this regard. I would assume FreeBSD's alternative to be much better than having a VM hiding in there to accomplish the same. It already has a Linux compatibility layer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CoolTheCold · 2022-06-25 16:01 It was not stated by me - but I have basic understanding of Linux & container (Docker) usage pattern and idea, but thanks anyways. > I would assume FreeBSD's alternative to be much better than having a VM hiding in there to accomplish the same. It already has a Linux compatibility layer. Isn't it just following "Linux way" then and accepting that part is what users want and done right? How does this highlight advantages of FreeBSD? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-06-25 16:51 **containerd** is new to me, I see but it's a bit much to take in. Is the type of thing that would allow Firefox or Google Chrome to run with Widevine (without Linuxulator)? What about Teams for Linux? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CoolTheCold · 2022-06-25 16:53 I'm not sure about "Desktop" or "GUI" software, as it may require some access to X or logind or ..., but you can try say sitespeed.io bundle - it has Chrome packed with VNC, AFAIR for doing site performance tests. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- craftkiller · 2022-06-25 17:16 Well this could be a stepping stone to kubernetes on FreeBSD natively which is basically the standard for web hosting these days. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- haroldp · 2022-06-25 17:29 Unfortunately, many software projects these days target Docker as their only supported platform. Maybe you are an old wheel and think, I'll just install it "by hand" since I have the instructions in the docker file, right? Then you'll often discover that it requires old versions of dependencies that are long gone from ports, or supporting software that has never been ported. Install [Huginn](https://github.com/huginn/huginn) by hand on FreeBSD and let me know how it goes for you. You might counter that that sounds like shit software that probably has a lot of security issues hidden in the black-box image that no one is looking at, and a lot of lazy programing that will surely manifest as bigger problems down the road. You might say that slouching into a platform mono-culture is deeply and dangerously unhealthy, and ripe for shocks and plagues. Probably all true, but now you are running linux too because the app you *need today* isn't installable on FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xplosm · 2022-06-25 18:12 >Isn't it just following "Linux way" then and accepting that part is what users want and done right? It's not about following the "Linux way" it's more about using the resources of the underlying platform (property isolated, of course) and avoid emulation. It's the selling point to use the container as if it were bare metal because it actually is. >How does this highlight advantages of FreeBSD? Another great platform to develop and deploy to. But I understand that if I target a BSD platform I should develop specifically in that platform. And FreeBSD already has its own containerized and virtualization solutions but these work exclusively for FreeBSD and no other BSD platform. But I agree with you, the use of FreeBSD already has its strong points and use cases that arguably Linux in X or Y scenarios. At the end of the day you choose the right tool for the right problem/use case but if you can orchestrate more than one platform and leverage the strengths of each all the best. But I think you might have concerns about Docker/containerd/Kubernetes eclipsing FreeBSD strengths which is also valid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CoolTheCold · 2022-06-26 04:38 a bit better answer (to my understanding): > containerd began as part of Docker and was donated to CNCF. containerd remains in use today by Docker/moby/buildkit etc., and has many other adopters. and > manage the complete container lifecycle of its host system: image transfer and storage, container execution and supervision, low-level storage and network attachments, etc. So it's kinda standardized framework for doing things with containers (you can see it as netgraph but for containers). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2022-06-26 14:08 Thanks again … ---------------------------------------------------------------------- uszeraj · 2022-06-28 08:31 So docker containers running "natively" (through the Linuxlator) on FreeBSD without a virtual machine layer? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CoolTheCold · 2022-06-28 14:22 Something like that, to my understanding.