Why doesn't the FreeBSD project produce a GUI desktop version of its OS? reddit / freebsd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-08 14:56 FreeBSD is a very alluring OS, but it seems a bit naked without a graphical desktop. I am aware that there are a few spin-offs/distros that create a graphical desktop, but it seems they have a rather limited lifespan, if I start to enumerate the ones that have gone the way of the dodo (E.g. PC-BSD/TrueOS, DesktopBSD, FuryBSD - Wikipedia actually has a long list of discontinued FreeBSD spin-offs [under here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BSD_operating_systems)). And while I don't wish it on any of the ones that are currently active, like GhostBSD, or MidnightBSD, you wonder, based on the fate of the aforementioned ones, whether it's a matter of time before they can no longer sustain themselves. It also makes me wonder why the official FreeBSD project does not produce its own version of the OS with a graphical desktop out of the box, instead of something a new user would have to install with packages and configure themselves. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- redsand69 · 2021-06-08 15:01 GhostBSD is the best option but I wish it was based on Release and not Stable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-08 15:11 Because the FreeBSD audience doesn't really care about it and they'd set it up themselves the way they want anyway. On the other hand, FreeBSD is also inherently less suited to the beginner-friendly GUI desktop/laptop OS market, because of hardware and software support, so it's not an attractive solution to a lot of other people either. I'm not saying there's no audience for it at all, and you absolutely could produce an enjoyable "desktop distro" based on FreeBSD (provided there are drivers), but it's a lot of work for something very few people actually want. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- motific · 2021-06-08 15:19 I don’t think there’s an appetite for it - people would argue over which desktop they settled on and it is no great hardship to run [sysutils/desktop- installer](https://www.freshports.org/sysutils/desktop-installer/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- motific · 2021-06-08 15:26 I don’t see why you wouldn't use stable? The point of the releases is to do a code freeze, which would have to be a separate process for a downstream project anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1s44c · 2021-06-08 15:38 If you want a GUI use X. FreeBSD is a server or technical user OS. In many cases X would be nothing but a waste of disk space. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GPruts · 2021-06-08 16:00 I have to say installing KDE was a matter of a few package install command (which installed > 600 packages ;) ) and works pretty great out of the box. So is it really needed? FreeBSD is kinda targeted at people who know their way around a commandline anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kraileth · 2021-06-08 16:00 Both MidnightBSD and GhostBSD are not exactly short-lived: One exists for over 15 (!) years, the other for over 10 years. MidnightBSD was never meant to be a desktop spin of FreeBSD, however. It was forked off of FreeBSD with the idea of independent development (as was DragonFly BSD). Since eventually it didn't get enough traction it's still technically very similar to FreeBSD (including occasional merges of newer FreeBSD code). It's a full OS of it's own, though, including its own ports and packaging system. One could argue that GhostBSD eventually diverged from FreeBSD, too, as it uses a different init system (openRC instead of rc.d). There has been interest in extending FreeBSD's installer to optionally install a graphical desktop, too. It just hasn't happened yet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- orduval · 2021-06-08 16:06 not official, but there is a [desktop installer](https://acadix.biz/desktop-installer.php) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wjmcknight · 2021-06-08 17:02 [/r/gatekeeping](https://www.reddit.com/r/gatekeeping) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darth_Ender_Ro · 2021-06-08 17:39 I use dwm :) Don’t need anything else ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Itchy-Suggestion · 2021-06-08 21:58 The focus is either not on the desktop or it expects users to do it themselves. Either ways you need to do the proper research on hardware first, particularly wifi. Edit: It has some neat security features, for example disabling USB by default is .. cute ... and not necessarily beginner friendly ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-08 21:59 >Because the FreeBSD audience doesn't really care about it and they'd set it up themselves the way they want anyway. On the other hand, FreeBSD is also inherently less suited to the beginner-friendly GUI desktop/laptop OS market, because of hardware and software support, so it's not an attractive solution to a lot of other people either. > >I'm not saying there's no audience for it at all, and you absolutely could produce an enjoyable "desktop distro" based on FreeBSD (provided there are drivers), but it's a lot of work for something very few people actually want. That is why it is in decline, because of the pettiness and selfishness of a few users who are only interested in FreeBSD as servers of their own interest for their marketing and commercial business. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-08 22:04 That would be fair, that they extend the installer in promt giving options for CLI and GUI. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-08 22:08 >If you want a GUI use X. FreeBSD is a server or technical user OS. In many cases X would be nothing but a waste of disk space. Just like this there is a group of users who profit from FreeBSD in their commercial marketing of only servers for their own benefit, that has been the policy of a tiny group for over 25 years with no regard for the future of FreeBSD which is in decline. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-08 22:21 Ghostbsd is embedded, based on TrueOS server and OpenRC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- prolly_not33 · 2021-06-08 23:06 I disagree that it is in decline. I've been using FreeBSD on my desktop for many years and it seems to me that it is as popular as ever, JMO. It runs current hardware fine (as long as it isn't cutting edge). Why would you say that is in decline? FreeBSD is what it is. It's a complete OS that manages your computer. If you want to put a graphical environment on it, then go ahead. If not, then that's fine too, it will still manage your computer. You just have to instruct it by way of console. FreeBSD let's you choose. GhostBSD is based on FreeBSD and is an awesome OS. I run it on my laptop and everything just works with it. You install it and boom, you have a "bsd" graphical OS. Try it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-08 23:26 Because the software is becoming obsolete, incompatible with the new hardware, because it has been left in the past of the usability in only CLI of only servers for a few users and is not extended by default for graphical environment, because the most used system markenting in the world, FreeBSD is at less than 0.5%. Please read in the GhostBSD forum where the developer says that the system is embedded, based on TrueOS server and OpenRC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Daedalus312 · 2021-06-08 23:53 This information is not relevant at the moment. Now GhostBSD is based on FReeBSD. This is written right on the main page of their site. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- onymousbosch · 2021-06-09 00:01 #!/bin/tcsh # usage: xfceinstall username set usertosetup=$1 pkg install xorg xfce # extra pkg install networkmgr doas # With networkmgr cat <> /usr/local/etc/doas.conf permit nopass keepenv root permit :wheel permit nopass keepenv :wheel cmd netcardmgr permit nopass keepenv :wheel cmd ifconfig permit nopass keepenv :wheel cmd service EOF # Enable dbus in /etc/rc.conf so it will be started when the system boots: sysrc dbus_enable="YES" # Add user to wheel group pw group mod -n wheel -m $usertosetup # rules.d files to allow shutdown/restart in xfce. cat < /usr/local/etc/polkit-1/rules.d/60-default.rules polkit.addRule(function (action, subject) { if (action.id == "org.freedesktop.consolekit.system.restart" || action.id == "org.freedesktop.consolekit.system.stop" && subject.isInGroup("wheel")) { return polkit.Result.YES; } }); EOF # For those who have working suspend/resume (T60 does NOT): cat <> /usr/local/etc/polkit-1/rules.d/60-default.rules polkit.addRule(function (action, subject) { if (action.id == "org.freedesktop.consolekit.system.suspend" && subject.isInGroup("wheel")) { return polkit.Result.YES; } }); EOF # create ~/.xinitrc for xfce startup with startx: echo ". /usr/local/etc/xdg/xfce4/xinitrc" >> /usr/home/$usertosetup/.xinitrc chown $usertosetup\:$usertosetup /usr/home/$usertosetup/.xinitrc # ~/.login (Only startx if in a local tty) cat <> /usr/home/$usertosetup/.login if (\$tty == "ttyv0") then echo Starting Xorg... startx endif EOF chown $usertosetup:$usertosetup /usr/home/$usertosetup/.login ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-09 00:14 Please, what do you mean by embedded? GhostBSD is based on FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-09 00:36 > … E.g. PC-BSD/TrueOS, DesktopBSD, FuryBSD … For me, PC-BSD was the ideal introduction to FreeBSD. If PC-BSD hadn't been there, I might have taken a very different path when I abandoned Apple products. > … why the official FreeBSD project does not produce its own version of the OS with a graphical desktop out of the box, instead of something a new user would have to install with packages and configure themselves. Writing as an end user (not an official) … No single desktop environment would suit everyone who likes the idea of including a desktop environment. The types of desktop environment that appeal to potential new users might not appeal to the people who must handle the work. https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage >> Over the years, the FreeBSD Project has built up a list of ideas for implementation work that seems like it might be a good idea, but no hands are available to do it. … ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-09 00:38 > no regard for the future of FreeBSD There's evidence to the contrary. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- edthesmokebeard · 2021-06-09 02:01 I just moved my home NAS/VM/miscellany server FROM Linux, TO FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- prolly_not33 · 2021-06-09 02:47 Awesome! Let us all know how that works out for you. If you have any issues, bring them up here. There are many knowledgeable people here that can give help. GL, my man ---------------------------------------------------------------------- edthesmokebeard · 2021-06-09 03:34 So far, awesome. ZFS on 4 disks, all the normal stuff like Samba and Netatalk plus forked-daap. Loving it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- prolly_not33 · 2021-06-09 04:10 Sounds like you got it going on, brutha. Glad to hear. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-09 04:27 > … currently active, like GhostBSD, or MidnightBSD, … In addition to those two distributions: you might treat a KDE-based distribution as *recently* active. Disk image produced by Samuel Venable in response to community interest, topic begun by me (after the first image was made available): * [FreeBSD-13.0-RELEASE-amd64-KDE-Plasma \(2021-05- 22\)](https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/freebsd-13-0-release- amd64-kde-plasma-2021-05-22.80550/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 06:13 Which version of GhostBSD are you running? I tried the latest in VirtualBox but it didn't work, so now I'm wondering whether I need to try it on real hardware. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- madhukarbhat · 2021-06-09 06:32 I suggest respectfully, please do follow your gut instinct and use an Operating System that you like. Projects like FreeBSD grow organically into whatever the contributors make it. You desire a GUI based FreeBSD OS ? Go ahead put together a team and have at it. You might be able to make it prettier than the prettiest out there and could even be able to charge for it. All the best! Please, try not to be a toxic poster. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1s44c · 2021-06-09 07:18 It's BSD licensed. Fork it and add any GUI you like. If it's an improvement it will soon attract people. It's FreeBSD still dying? I won't believe it until netcraft confirms it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1s44c · 2021-06-09 07:29 Rubbish. FreeBSD us BSD licensed. Anyone can do anything with it without paying or seeking permission. Bundling a GUI and rebranding isn't that hard. Netapp filers are FreeBSD derivates, as well as many other products. I'm wondering if you thought I was recommending OSX when I said "X". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 08:13 For me, too, a graphical desktop would be the ideal way to get into FreeBSD, because I need that "hand-holding" while I discover what's underneath the (graphical) hood. I understand that it's a problem finding the resources and yet, it seems like having a desktop FreeBSD distribution is the ideal way to get new people on board and hopefully provide the momentum for such a project. (Perhaps some help from a corporate sponsor will one day arrive?) Looking at the [BSDstats](https://bsdstats.org/) project: *More specifically, we are trying to demonstrate to hardware and software vendors out there that \*BSD should be viewed as a serious operating system, not just as a hobbyist system, for support (ie. hardware drivers) purposes.* , I was thinking to myself that probably one of the best ways to attract users and show that there is usage of BSD, *is to have a desktop version*. Anyway, perhaps I should look at something like MidnightBSD again. I couldn't get GhostBSD or helloSystem to run in VirtualBox. NomadBSD seems like a possible candidate, too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 08:19 Oh yes, and further to the point about the fact that it is impossible to find an agreed-upon desktop: Yes, I think that is probably true. But here's the thing: I personally favour KDE and yet, if there was an official desktop for FreeBSD and it was any other desktop, be it GNOME or LXQT or whatever, I would be happy to adopt that for the purpose of being able to easily use FreeBSD. For me, the more important thing would be that it is officially supported by the project and I know it would work without much fiddling or breaking. Main thing is that I have an easy way to install and use FreeBSD. Probably the right approach for the project would be to just pick a popular desktop environment and stick to it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 08:22 I see the argument a lot that people would argue over which desktop to settle on, so I just want to repeat my reply I wrote elsewhere: ​ > I personally favour KDE and yet, if there was an official desktop for FreeBSD and it was any other desktop, be it GNOME or LXQT or whatever, I would be happy to adopt that for the purpose of being able to easily use FreeBSD. > >For me, the more important thing would be that it is officially supported by the project and I know it would work without much fiddling or breaking. Main thing is that I have an easy way to install and use FreeBSD. > >Probably the right approach for the project would be to just pick a popular desktop environment and stick to it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 08:51 I would personally love to get started on FreeBSD but, like I commented elsewhere, I need the "handholding" of a graphical desktop to get me started in learning the OS. Also, you may be right that for the current audience / users of FreeBSD, a desktop is probably not a priority, but I believe it would certainly help attract more users, and I imagine that growth of the userbase is something that every project strives for. Unfortunately, I think, many users out there are probably like me - they can drive a car, but they wouldn't know what they are looking at if they opened the hood. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-09 10:02 I don't think you understand. It's not the matter of flicking a switch or something. Hardware support requires vendor cooperation and development, and so does software like Steam and others that Linux can offer. All these things require money, people, and time. You can't force anyone to support FreeBSD, unless you have the resources to port it yourself, and even then a lot of stuff isn't actually open source. Maintaining and developing a solid, smooth desktop experience that is actually superior to what you get by simply installing KDE/Gnome/whatever by pkgin takes work that the FreeBSD project can't really justify, because as it stands right now it would be to the detriment of the core aspects of FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- motific · 2021-06-09 10:13 Really it's about walking the walk, I feel like if what you say were the case you'd be using GhostBSD today and wouldn't have felt a need to ask the question. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-09 10:16 I know it's a bit of a douchy thing to say, but if you read the FreeBSD Handbook, it's all there: [https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/h andbook/](https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/) it's also a good read because having read what you need to do, you can form more specific questions that can better be answered What you need to do is install a basic system, get networking and pkg going, and then install X11. Part I of the Handbook deals with all that, and then it's basically just installing whatever DE or WM you want to use. If you're really unsure and just want to experiement, want to practice the installing process etc. think about using something like VirtualBox btw. There you can't really screw anything up and retry as often as you want. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 10:23 I have actually been trying to install a graphical desktop environment on FreeBSD 13 on VirtualBox the last two days. I actually tried desktop-installer after your comment above after failing to install GhostBSD (the latest) and helloSystem. I managed to install KDE, and running sddm (manually, I thought it would be automatic) brings up the login greeter on the graphical console, but after logging in, I just get a black screen with a mouse. Now I have finally managed to install MidnightBSD and this is the first time I successfully have a graphical desktop, but then I try to install the VirtualBox guest additions, only to find out that apparently MidnightBSD has its own package repository that does not include this 🤔 So yes, I am trying very hard, but it's not easy. I still think having an official, FreeBSD-supported graphical desktop system that will work out of the box would be a nice way for a lot of people that want to get into the OS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 10:37 No, not douchy at all, and thanks for the tips. (I have spent the better part of two days with VirtualBox trying to set up a graphical FreeBSD desktop). It sounds though, as though the only way to FreeBSD enlightenment, right now, is to trod the narrow and long path with many thorns, and only those who truly seek it and are willing to suffer many trials will find it. Granted, that is probably the state of FreeBSD at present, and given that I am only looking at it casually right now (as opposed to say, someone who has to learn to use it for their work) I might have to concede in the end that perhaps it is not for me. Perhaps one day, when people with the right skills and time on their hands are able to craft a painless and user-friendly way install and run it as a desktop, then a person like me can pick it up and discover its joys. On the other hand, perhaps this will always be the state of FreeBSD and I will just have to live with it. (Gosh, I just read what I wrote and I hope *I'm* not the one sounding douchy! 😬). **Edit:** By "enlightenment", I obviously do not mean knowing all the secrets of FreeBSD. I understand that *would* take great commitment and potentially years of learning. I was picturing more of arriving at a place where you can *start* to discover the joys of the OS; albeit in a graphical environment. That would be my idea of a rainbow and fairy style wonderland 😀 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-09 10:57 just a heads up. If you want to get graphics working in VirtualBox, you need to consider this part of the handbook: [https://docs.freebsd. org/en/books/handbook/virtualization/#virtualization-guest-virtualbox] (https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/virtualization/#virtualiza tion-guest-virtualbox) also performance will suck. If you're not scared of reading, this will do you some good and it's probably the closest thing to handholding: [https://ihatefeds.com/No.S tarch.Absolute.FreeBSD.3rd.Edition.2018.pdf](https://ihatefeds.com/No. Starch.Absolute.FreeBSD.3rd.Edition.2018.pdf) but yeah. The BSDs still do things the old way lol. get you a manual and start reading. They are unfortunately just not as "comfy" to use as other systems in some sense, but much more so in another sense. Matter of perspective really. oh yeah, one last thing, if you ever want to install FreeBSD to metal so you can actually get performance and such, think about getting another SSD to build into your laptop/desktop if possible, it's usually the quickest, easiest, and safest way to dualboot, BSD or Linux. Even 500GB SSDs are pretty cheap these days anyhow. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-09 11:14 honestly rich to assume that a server-centered OS could become more popular by becoming a desktop OS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- motific · 2021-06-09 12:05 GhostBSD forums have some threads on others experiencing that issue with virtualbox. All I can say is I fired up their latest ISO in Hyper-V and it came straight up with no fuss, so perhaps the issues are the virtualbox integration more than GhostBSD - It's worth checking in on their forums. If Midnight uses pkg then you can add the FreeBSD repo if you want. Even with an 'official' GUI build I suspect you'd have the same problems with getting a graphical environment running, as ultimately it would most likely be the same people moving over from other projects to create/support it. But I do feel your frustration - it is 2021 and getting a desktop up & running should be easier. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 12:34 Hey thanks, that's interesting about Hyper-V. I just removed Hyper-V the other day to use VirtualBox again 🤦‍♂️ It's a pain to switch over each time and I just installed a Windows guest on VB as well, but if all else fails I might try Hyper-V again. I believe there was a time the two could co-exist... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 12:35 Thanks for the help. I am now a bit further along than I was. I started again, this time with a clean FreeBSD 13 installation and installed KDE as per the handbook. (I had done this before, but didn't realize xorg must installed explicitly; I thought the package installations pull this in as a dependency). Then after ensuring I had all the config correct as per the handbook, I ran into this problem: [https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/kde- login-hangs-with-circle-stopping-on- freebsd-13.79825/](https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/kde-login-hangs- with-circle-stopping-on-freebsd-13.79825/) So now I have a half-working desktop. It starts up, though the guest does not resize and only goes up to 1024x768, but that's OK. I might just give other desktop environments like Gnome a try as well to see if I fare any better. I mean, I prefer KDE, but if it's for the sake of having a working, graphical desktop atop of FreeBSD, I'm not fussy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-09 12:58 which method are you using to start KDE? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-09 13:23 In installed SDDM via pkg and set `sddm_enable="YES"` in rc.conf. It works, the greeter comes up on the graphical console, but it suffers the problem described in the above link. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-09 13:57 what if you try disabling the SDDM method and do it with .xinitrc instead? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-09 15:23 What cooperation is there going to be if FreeBSD has only focused on servers for over 25 years? The cooperation of those who use the system for their own self-interest? The system needs to be extended by default to the graphical desktop for end-user consumption, and thus it will gradually supply what it needs and draw the attention of the big tech companies to the hardware and what FreeBSD needs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-09 15:31 >nivel 5Daedalus312 · 15hThis information is not relevant at the moment. Now GhostBSD is based on FReeBSD. This is written right on the main page of their site. Since its birth it has been written in its main page, however in its forum, the same developer published in past years that FreeBSD will be embedded, based on TrueOS server and OpenRC system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-09 15:50 Look at the marketing of the most used systems in the world, and FreeBSD does not even reach 0.5%. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-09 17:15 > … GhostBSD … latest in VirtualBox but it didn't work, … What are the symptoms? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-09 17:19 > … KDE as per the handbook. Quick start https://community.kde.org/FreeBSD/Setup#Quick_start essentially: * graphics first, KDE and the rest – other parts of the page are outdated. > … guest does not resize and only goes up to 1024x768, … Choose VBoxSVGA before starting the virtual machine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-09 17:21 > pkg quarterly or latest in the guest? `grep url /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf` ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2021-06-09 18:55 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Daedalus312 · 2021-06-09 19:27 That TrueOS is officially abandoned and is not being developed, but the original FreeBSD continues to evolve. It would be strange to base a modern operating system on a dead OS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-10 00:53 >That TrueOS is officially abandoned and is not being developed, but the original FreeBSD continues to evolve. It would be strange to base a modern operating system on a dead OS TrueOS desktop is abandoned or dead, but TrueOS server with a facelift is still active. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-10 00:59 For window manager how would be the procedure and to change the language to another one ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-10 01:02 >Please, what do you mean by embedded? > >GhostBSD is based on FreeBSD. GhostBSD is based on TrueOS server and OpenRC, not FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-10 01:34 > GhostBSD is based on TrueOS server and OpenRC, not FreeBSD. The **home** page https://www.ghostbsd.org/ begins: >> ## Simple >> >> GhostBSD provides a simple desktop-oriented operating system based on FreeBSD … **About GhostBSD project** https://www.ghostbsd.org/about begins: >> ## Overview >> >> GhostBSD is a simple, elegant, and friendly BSD operating system for desktops and laptops base on the latest FreeBSD STABLE. … [The FreeBSD Foundation describes FreeBSD as the basis for GhostBSD](https://freebsdfoundation.org/freebsd-project/what-is- freebsd/). And so on. /u/terono perhaps you are reading outdated content. If so, please provide a link to the content so that preconceptions can be better. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- system-user · 2021-06-10 02:14 you're beating a dead horse here. take your trolling elsewhere. oh, let me guess.. you do this every few months to try to make your pointless point, collect down votes, then piss off back to ubuntu or whatever linuxmasterrace nonsense is popular at the time. if you don't like FreeBSD don't use it. no one in the community or the foundation is obligated to create a desktop installer when it's literally a handful of simple commands to get Xorg and a DE setup. there are many examples of scripts that do it for you with having to know how any of it works at a low level. people like you are just lazy and entitled. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-10 15:27 So you might have seen at [https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/kde- login-hangs-with-circle-stopping-on- freebsd-13.79825/](https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/kde-login-hangs- with-circle-stopping-on-freebsd-13.79825/) (if you guessed it was me from my slightly different handle) that it's quarterly, or at least, the default, as I had not changed that. But yes, I ran your command and can confirm it's quarterly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-10 15:29 You know, I have to be honest, I have tried so many installations over two days that I cannot remember the specific symptoms in this case, so I installed it again just to make sure. *However:* This time I chose VBoxSVGA as you had recommended on that forum post and the other comment here, and it actually landed me in the graphical live environment, from where I managed to do a successful install, and I am glad to report that I now have a functioning install of GhostBSD, with the mouse pointer integration and resizing working! Thank you very much! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-10 17:09 > … tried so many installations over two days that I cannot remember the specific symptoms … `:-)` GhostBSD aside: over the years, I have put myself in that situation on hundreds of occasions. > … VBoxSVGA … I now have a functioning install of GhostBSD, … Cool! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Daedalus312 · 2021-06-11 06:52 https://www.truenas.com/trueos-discontinuation/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-12 01:06 >perhaps you are reading outdated content. If so, please provide a link to the content so that preconceptions can be better. Thank you Here is the announcement made by the developer of Ghostbsd in 2018, and generated a debate on the ghostbsd forum, read carefully. GhostBSD is switching it's system base Submitted by ericbsd on Wed, 05/02/2018 - 11:44 You might have seen the discussion about this subject on the GhostBSD forums. So yes GhostBSD will release a version in the future with TrueOS as the base system. We have not yet decided if we will continue releasing a version with FreeBSD as the base operating system. Why switching to TrueOS instead of FreeBSD? For some time we have discussed problems that GhostBSD is facing in the long run. Some of our community have asked for improvements including a better rc such as OpenRC. We all have thought of OpenRC, but for a small team, it is a hard thing to do on our own as a project. After a lot of discussions, we decided to join TrueOS effort. Since then it is now making more sense as both of the main developers of GhostBSD work for iXsystems. TrueOS is becoming more mature as an appliance building platform making it appealing for the goal of creating reproducible builds of GhostBSD. Security-enhancing features such as LibreSSL integration and improved service management with OpenRC are just a few examples of some the improvements the switch will bring. [http://www.ghostbsd.org/GhostBSD\_is\_switching\_its\_system\_base](h ttp://www.ghostbsd.org/GhostBSD_is_switching_its_system_base) Discussion in the GhostBSD forum for the announcement of the 2018 developer: First GhostBSD dev release of with TrueOS base system. [https://forums.ghostbsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1078](https://forums .ghostbsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1078) .....TrueOS is becoming an embedded, system that we can build quality appliances with and systems like GhostBSD and new projects that will emerge of that change. GhostBSD will stay about the same it has always been, but we will have a comfortable way to upgrade from version to version. The significant difference will be the boot time compared to the current release, OpenRC will be in base, Software wise it will be similar to the previous version.I am also involved in the TrueOS project, and I can add code related to GhostBSD in TrueOS source code. At one point I should be able to build GhostBSD from TrueOS source code. Kris has created Json templets that can be used to create a profile for different systems. [https://forums.ghostbsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1039&start=10](https ://forums.ghostbsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1039&start=10) I don't expect everyone to be happy about it. It is easy to critics that change, but for all the years that I had not much help for the development of GhostBSD(OK, not to forgot that ASX and convbsd did help a lot the project.) and FreeBSD sometime had made some releases harder I think moving to TrueOS is worth to happen. Why? TrueOS cares about the future of GhostBSD, and I have some help and support from my manager Joe, Kris and others from iX. I also have a voice on changes happening in TrueOS so for me it is a no- brainer. Yeah, I have ports commit bit on the FreeBSD projects, but that does not give me any power on changes that occur on FreeBSD. Kris, Ken, Joe, others and I have similar goals about what we want FreeBSD to be so instead of fighting for changes to happen in FreeBSD projects we will make those change happen with TrueOS and use TrueOS for our projects. Yes, some people will be criticising the move to TrueOS, I am ready for that and do not expect everyone to be happy about that. [https://forums.ghostbsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1039&start=20](https ://forums.ghostbsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1039&start=20) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-12 01:42 You will be a trolling, because users like you have opposed FreeBSD to be extended by default for graphical desktop and it is about to disappear. The negative votes is because there are ignorant users like you who think that GhostBSD contains FreeBSD base, and it is not so. In 2018 the same developer said that GhostBSD will be based on TrueOS and OpenRC, read the debate in the GhostBSD forum in 2018. GhostBSD is switching it's system base Submitted by ericbsd on Wed, 05/02/2018 - 11:44 You might have seen the discussion about this subject on the GhostBSD forums. So yes GhostBSD will release a version in the future with TrueOS as the base system. We have not yet decided if we will continue releasing a version with FreeBSD as the base operating system. Why switching to TrueOS instead of FreeBSD? For some time we have discussed problems that GhostBSD is facing in the long run. Some of our community have asked for improvements including a better rc such as OpenRC. We all have thought of OpenRC, but for a small team, it is a hard thing to do on our own as a project. After a lot of discussions, we decided to join TrueOS effort. Since then it is now making more sense as both of the main developers of GhostBSD work for iXsystems. TrueOS is becoming more mature as an appliance building platform making it appealing for the goal of creating reproducible builds of GhostBSD. Security-enhancing features such as LibreSSL integration and improved service management with OpenRC are just a few examples of some the improvements the switch will bring. [http://www.ghostbsd.org/GhostBSD\_is\_switching\_its\_system\_base](h ttp://www.ghostbsd.org/GhostBSD_is_switching_its_system_base) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- terono · 2021-06-12 01:52 Here is the announcement made by the developer of Ghostbsd in 2018, and generated a debate on the ghostbsd forum, read carefully. http://www.ghostbsd.org/GhostBSD\_is\_switching\_its\_system\_base ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Daedalus312 · 2021-06-12 01:54 I know about it. But it's 2021 now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-12 06:14 I wrote: >> perhaps you are reading outdated content. You wrote: > read carefully. /u/terono you are reading, and quoting, outdated content. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-12 06:56 /u/terono with respect, it seems that you are ignoring current information. Please don't ignore current information. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-12 07:00 >> TrueOS server – some confusion, leading to: > … a server-centered OS … The roots of TrueOS were in TrueOS **Desktop**. [It's Official But Sad: TrueOS Is Over As Once The Best Desktop BSD OS - Phoronix](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=No- More-TrueOS) (2020-03-28) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-12 09:38 We're discussing FreeBSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-12 10:29 Thanks for clarifying. The FreeBSD Foundation's [Everyday FreeBSD Brochure](https://freebsdfoundation.org/wp- content/uploads/2018/03/FreeBSD-in-Every-Day-Life_FINAL.pdf) presents a range of use cases, but it's probaby best known as being server- oriented. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lucaprinaorg · 2021-06-15 10:41 there is the helloSystem: [https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/](https://hellosystem.github.io/do cs/) as an interesting starting point ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-16 16:10 GhostBSD kept OpenRC but otherwise is completely based on FreeBSD. TrueOS has also been dead for over a year now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-16 18:36 Sure, why don't you go ask the project founders whether GhostBSD is based on FreeBSD or on TrueOS that has been dead for over a year, I don't think you'll like the answer though ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-17 12:07 > ask the project founders I wrote a few days ago – without reference to Reddit. Not to ask; it was to have, in one place, some points of reference. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-17 12:19 > What cooperation is there going to be if FreeBSD has only focused on servers for over 25 years? The cooperation of those who use the system for their own self-interest? … My objection here is the implication of selfishness In my experience, the majority of developers whose focus is FreeBSD are very pleasantly **selfless** with regard to things that are beyond the base system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-17 12:31 > I know it's a bit of a douchy thing to say, but if you read the FreeBSD Handbook, … Not douchy (because you're *not* insisting that an entire book should be read before attempting to use the OS). IMHO the book is a good point of reference, not perfect, as a complement to trial-and-error use of the system. > … think about using something like VirtualBox btw. There you can't really screw anything up … It is, I think, too easy to *accidentally* have a machine that's unusable immediately after starting (i.e. need to reset, or force it off, which is less than ideal). Call for testing: https://www.reddit.com/comments/ntki7u/-/ – no response :-( ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-17 12:36 > … try disabling the SDDM method and do it with .xinitrc instead? Incidentally: * FreeBSD bug [256648 – x11/sddm enhance xinit-session for 'User Session' to work in the absence of ~/.xinitrc](https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=256648) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-17 13:39 Thanks, https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/releases/latest `0.5.0 (0E223)` very recently released. A nice set of improvements, which I have not tested. My main concern is the intention to step back from *quarterly* to an older package set that surely has a greater proportion of packages that are vulnerable (or simply bugged). Put this in the context of the system not yet supporting pkg-based updates/upgrades; not an ideal situation, if you want a system that's reasonably free from bugs and vulnerabilities. "It is now possible to save (persist across reboots) custom keyboard preferences" however my [keyboard preferences are still lost](https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/issues/110), which is endlessly annoying (given the debatable over-focus on Mac keyboard layouts). The same for display preferences – lost. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-19 20:04 > https://ihatefeds.com/No.Starch.Absolute.FreeBSD.3rd.Edition.2018.pdf Nice, thanks. > … to get graphics working in VirtualBox, you need to consider this part of the handbook: … In my experience, it's best to simply: 1. choose VBoxSVGA for the guest 2. have guest additions installed. Some other things that *can* be done can be also **surprisingly troublesome** to *undo*, if things do not go as expected. > … performance will suck. … Please see: * [Chalkboard HTML5 Benchmark in physical and virtual machines](https: //new.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/o3o3nk/chalkboard_html5_benchmark_ in_physical_and/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- crust_cheese · 2021-06-19 20:12 Hey, thanks for the follow up. For clarification, I was referring to graphics performance specifically, running e.g. KDE is just not really fun. But that's hardly unique to FreeBSD, just a general VM limitation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-19 21:19 KDE Plasma seems OK to me … Windows 10 is much more of a drag. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-06-21 01:27 /u/mydoghasticks /u/demetrioussharpe and all Amongst the longer discussions of occasionally asked questions such as this: * [Does Desktop have a future on BSD? | The FreeBSD Forums](https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/does-desktop-have-a-future- on-bsd.73482/) Recent https://forums.FreeBSD.org/threads/73482/post-518374 includes a key point: > The catch is the vast majority of people who use FreeBSD do not want a bundle of "Qt GUI and Widgets in the base system with a bare bone window manager". … Note, most such people are not stuck in the mud; not resistant to change. I should begin reading the first seventeen pages. I joined at the eighteenth and (partly for fun) decided to restrict myself to binary *yes/no* answers (sometimes with links). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- demetrioussharpe · 2021-06-21 02:23 This is possibly the best thing I’ve ever seen in regards to FreeBSD & desktops. I was planning to write such a script myself, but it wouldn’t have been this elegant. This script could be called by an installer to setup a great default GUI for an XFCE-based FreeBSD distribution. I hope you don’t mind! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- onymousbosch · 2021-06-21 02:31 Thank you. I probably should have put my name on it. If you use it somewhere, please add that. I'll DM you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mydoghasticks · 2021-06-21 05:31 Thanks for that. The thing is, with FreeBSD being highly noted for being very performant and stable, it seems it would make a great platform for desktop as well as server users. But I totally understand the point that most people (currently) use it for server purposes, and that is of course great. I do hope, though, that some day desktops on FreeBSD gain enough traction so that it becomes a viable alternative to Linux/Windows/MacOS for the public at large. And I don't think that means that it has to include GUI stuff in the base - look at Ubuntu, for example; the server version of the OS has no GUI stuff included at all; the desktop and server editions are separate builds.