HelloSystem ; A FreeBSD Based OS for Mac Switchers reddit / freebsd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TechStoney · 2021-02-14 06:06 [https://itsfoss.net/hellosystem-a-freebsd-based-os-for-mac- switchers/](https://itsfoss.net/hellosystem-a-freebsd-based-os-for- mac-switchers/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aieidotch · 2021-02-14 10:18 But who in their right mind would switch away from macOS? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- faxattack · 2021-02-14 10:46 So its just some gui similarities? Not even macos systemd equivalent launchd? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- remmelz · 2021-02-14 10:54 People who value the Free and Open Spirit of FreeBSD and don't want to work in a jailed environment. Although I don't believe that you should mimic the look-and-feel of Mac as this might give a false feeling to users and will end up being frustrated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AxelHush · 2021-02-14 11:21 People Who value the free and open spirit of FreeBSD, won't get an Apple in the first place. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- include007 · 2021-02-14 13:10 people who do not recognize macos anymore. people tired of lack of os reliability, stability and performance. macos is not what we were used too... I've a MacBook pro i7 with 16G ram; its 2021 and I have lag in my mouse?! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Itchy-Suggestion · 2021-02-14 14:07 Pretty much everyone who wants to hack his life ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aieidotch · 2021-02-14 14:35 https://opensource.apple.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- michael_hmich · 2021-02-14 15:16 the right question should be "who in his right mind would use a closed system?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anola_Ninja · 2021-02-14 15:21 r/gatekeeping ---------------------------------------------------------------------- celestrion · 2021-02-14 17:14 I switched away (after almost 20 years) because Apple stopped taking professional software developers seriously. My 2011 Macbook Pro had a gigantic matte screen, socketed memory, swappable storage, a comfortable keyboard, an ExpressCard slot, and an all-day battery. The OS was thoroughly usable as a Unix-like development environment. First the matte screens went away. Then they got smaller. Then the storage and memory became permanently soldered-in. In the interest of making a notebook thin enough to slide under an office door, battery life and keyboard comfort suffered. Build quality went to hell, even as they made their hardware harder to repair. Then they issued the ultimate insult to those of us who use vi: they took away the escape key. At some point, you just have to accept you're not wanted anymore. Unix hackers helped saved Apple's ass at the turn of the century ("You mean I can run Unix software *and* Microsoft Office side-by-side? I'm totally pushing for this to be our standard platform!"), but we're no- longer necessary. macOS is a content-consumption platform anymore; just look at [the features they tout in Big Sur](https://www.apple.com/macos/big-sur/). Remember when OS X used to be about being "The world's most advanced operating system" and strong enough to run the world's most demanding creative applications? Turns out that skimming 30% of everyone else's work is a *lot* easier than all that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- remmelz · 2021-02-14 17:24 Sure, MS Windows also uses opensource software in there OS. What point do you want to make? :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aieidotch · 2021-02-14 17:45 Their office costs extra, and their fonts are cheap. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-02-14 18:00 > just some gui similarities? https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- faxattack · 2021-02-14 18:04 Yes, read that. Can't make out what would why Mac OS users would feel home in it. An OS is much more than a desktop environment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lopsidedcroc · 2021-02-14 19:49 > My 2011 MacBook Pro Uncoincidentally the year Steve Jobs died. There are rumors they’re reversing course though ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-02-14 19:51 Amongst other things, it's preconfigured to suit people who are familiar with an Apple keyboard layout. ### Postscript to down-voters I *do* understand the rationale for this pre-configuration, however (for myself) I *don't* like it because I stopped using Apple keyboards years ago. Whenever I boot helloSystem, my first task is to undo the Apple-centric swaps. [Setting a keyboard layout as soon, as simply as possible when booting live e.g. from the .iso · Issue #68 · helloSystem/ISO](https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/issues/68) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-02-15 00:15 > … rumors they’re reversing course … If so: no doubt it will please many former users but for me, it's too late. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-02-15 01:00 A person who likes titles to appear in title bars. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-02-15 01:02 Not all closed systems are entirely bad. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bitlockholmes · 2021-02-15 01:05 Still not released ---------------------------------------------------------------------- csgraves · 2021-02-15 01:06 I don't know that I want to use a closed system as such, but the idea behind this is pretty solid, and I agree. I want to download PROGRAM\_1, double click it, and have it open and ready for me to work. I don't want to have to sign up for this or that, have to enter my fucking password every time I want to do a thing on my computer. What else? Don't want to have to be online to do work. I want to be able to have multiple copies of a program available on my disk. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- csgraves · 2021-02-15 01:07 It is an Alpha right now, but it's an interesting concept, and he's not even copying anything significant of the Mac gui, except perhaps the global menu bar, but even that's just a common sense thing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- goldfluss · 2021-02-15 07:57 Not everyone wants to mess around with the kernel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- michael_hmich · 2021-02-15 09:31 that's true ---------------------------------------------------------------------- michael_hmich · 2021-02-15 09:35 mmmh but most of your points Linux and Unix offer it also, specially the password thing and when you've forgotten you can easily get it back, this with macos is not so easy some friends told me ---------------------------------------------------------------------- michael_hmich · 2021-02-15 09:38 i have not written anything about the system quality, that is another issue ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ColoradoHOA · 2021-02-15 13:04 >There are rumors they’re reversing course though Uncoincidentally after Jony Ive leaves Apple. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darmok-Jilad-Ocean · 2021-02-15 17:41 I agree with most of your points, but do you actually use the escape key instead of Ctrl + [?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- celestrion · 2021-02-15 17:46 Yes, consistently. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darmok-Jilad-Ocean · 2021-02-15 17:48 For my hand that’s a much bigger jump than using ctrl + [. What’s your reasoning? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- celestrion · 2021-02-15 18:10 I have sufficiently larger hands that Esc is barely a reach at all, and Ctrl moves around depending on whether or not it's a notebook keyboard, whether it's a machine I sit at often enough to have mapped Ctrl over Caps-lock, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PentaxWho · 2021-02-15 21:14 Oh yes, love websites which when clicking "forgot password" send you your actual password. How the fuck is this even possible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PentaxWho · 2021-02-15 21:20 \> My 2011 Macbook Pro had <...> all-day battery \> In the interest of making a notebook thin enough to slide under an office door, battery life <...> suffered \> Then they issued the ultimate insult to those of us who use vi: they took away the escape key. Me, responding on 2020 MBP with ESC key that can show youtube video for a bit over 20 hours straight on battery - [https://youtu.be/KE- hrWTgDjk?t=642](https://youtu.be/KE-hrWTgDjk?t=642) \- "IS THIS FUCKING IRONY?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- celestrion · 2021-02-15 21:34 Switching costs are real, and users won't wait forever. They still have that soldered-in memory and storage, though. The MBP I used at my last job had one flaky memory chip; sending in the entire machine and restoring from backup is a crap experience compared to swapping a memory module. If Apple wants to make genuine workstations again, people like me will consider them when it's time for new equipment, but it looks like they've decided that other market segments are where the money is, so I wish them well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PentaxWho · 2021-02-15 21:59 Soldered in storage - yes. For thinness. Oh well. Soldered in memory - yes. And it's great. It's fucking awesome. Have your upgradable memory in your x86, I will have my non upgradable non replaceable memory that's actually fukin fast - [https://www.sevarg.net/2021/01/09/arm-mac-mini-and- boinc/](https://www.sevarg.net/2021/01/09/arm-mac-mini-and-boinc/) \-> ctrl + f "Memory Bandwidth is WHAT???" - yea, an Ubuntu install inside QEMU running on macOS just slaughters your replaceable memory. There are sacrifices for portability, weight, dimensions, performance and battery life. And I will gladly take non repairability and non upgradability to have these things. You want thick heavy slow plastic laptops with battery that lasts 6-8 hours max - but you can upgrade them - sure. Personally I just don't see the point in upgradability when you cannot actually upgrade them to match thin portable long lasting macbooks, but that's just me. Of course you can't run freebsd on bare metal either, and if you want that together with linux compatibility, because linux doesn't has much software support, freebsd doesn't even has electron - that's the only option. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- celestrion · 2021-02-15 22:25 > Have your upgradable memory in your x86 Happily. My workload hasn't fit in 16GB for a long time. > I will have my non upgradable non replaceable memory that's actually fukin fast And it matters not a bit when the things get repeatedly paged in and out. > You want thick heavy slow plastic laptops with battery that lasts 6-8 hours max I'm not interested in slow, which is why the machine needs enough memory to keep the work loaded. Plastic vs metal, thick vs thin; it doesn't matter. Does it get the work done? 8 hours of battery life is plenty, and probably about all an M1 Macbook Pro will get wen it's work that it can't offload to a dedicated decode unit. > freebsd doesn't even has electron And nothing of value is lost. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- michael_hmich · 2021-02-15 22:26 that is obviously what hits us all, suddenly Gmail, Outlook and others asked you for password change, that's the moment try to handle the beast in me who wants to kill all all of them ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PentaxWho · 2021-02-15 23:29 Anyways. Like... Uh.. Damn. Plan ahead and buy devices with enough memory? Or sell older device (MBP is not your Acer Thinkad XPS, it doesn't depreciate that much) and buy new with enough memory? > And it matters not a bit when the things get repeatedly paged in and out. Buy device with more ram. Nice comeback. "Doesn't matter if my memory is slow, I can add more" - you focking wot mate????????? WOOOOOT??????? THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU. Repeat after me - your memory is slow. Accept it, come on, no deflections, it's really not that fucking hard, it's simple facts, jeeeeeeezzzzzus. > Happily. My workload hasn't fit in 16GB for a long time. Buy device with more ram. Nice comeback. In before "can't buy new computer with more than 16 GB now" - yes, x86 systems - dinosaurs - did not die out overnight when meteor hit. And I see how it's hard for you to understand that it's coming in near future and you have to wait a bit and not buy today - because, well, you can't think forward and that's why you need upgradability lol. > and probably about all an M1 Macbook Pro will get wen it's work that it can't offload to a dedicated decode unit. Probably not. Nice. > And nothing of value is lost. Hey my system doesn't support one of the most popular cross platform toolkit - hip hip hurray. You focking wot mate? Is this what Stockholm syndrome sounds? :D :D THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Jesus christ, the more obscure os, the more batshit crazy it's users are. Linux zealots are 1x batshit crazy. FreeBSD - 10x batshit crazy insane. OpenBSD - 15x. Stallman with Hurd - 50x batshit bonkers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- celestrion · 2021-02-16 00:56 > Like... Uh.. Damn. Plan ahead and buy devices with enough memory? > In before "can't buy new computer with more than 16 GB now" Pick one. Either they exist or they don't. >> Happily. My workload hasn't fit in 16GB for a long time. > Buy device with more ram. Nice comeback. M1 Macbooks Pro top out at 16GB. The x86 Macbooks Pro have the same DDR4 memory bus as any system with socketed memory. When the M1 systems can take the amount of memory my work needs, maybe I'll try one. Until then, it's pointless. > > and probably about all an M1 Macbook Pro will get wen it's work that it can't offload to a dedicated decode unit. > Probably not. Nice. Well, you have one. I don't, so I can only guess. How long can you run PostgreSQL alongside and a SeaStar C++ with 6 work threads under load? The H.265 decoder uses way less power than a full CPU core, and my workload uses 7 or 8 CPU threads. Decoding YouTube uses the hardware offload plus enough CPU to keep the network stack fed. So, it probably use a lot less power. > Hey my system doesn't support one of the most popular cross platform toolkit FreeBSD exists if the Electron folks want to port their software to it. So far, they haven't. How is that FreeBSD's fault? > THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Party on, Garth. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Macfan124 · 2021-02-16 03:18 Sounds cool The os looks like macOS and even has the welcome in Different langs with music in the background. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2021-02-16 03:40 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-02-16 19:42 Downvoted for liking titles to appear in title bars. Presumably by someone who believes that FreeBSD is a server-only operating system :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-02-16 19:43 Are we there yet? Are we there yet? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PDXubaru · 2021-02-17 03:41 The one and only thing I want from Apple is fsevents. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TechStoney · 2021-02-17 04:12 Quality is day by day improved by developers , afterall its in early beta stage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TechStoney · 2021-02-17 04:13 Exactly 💯 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- grahamperrin · 2021-02-17 04:44 ### electron > freebsd doesn't even has electron Two ports of electron say you're wrong: * https://www.freshports.org/devel/electron9/ * https://www.freshports.org/devel/electron11/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PentaxWho · 2021-02-17 07:59 So you download linux version of any electron app and it works out of the box without linux emulation? :) because you’ve installed electron sdk? And sdk helps to run linux bundle how?