Current real world uses? reddit / bbs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- shawnbutts · 2023-08-31 23:53 Hi all! I've had some recent nostalgia for BBS' and spent a little time rediscovering the community. I'm even considering setting up a board like playing around with some of the old doors, fidonet, etc. Nothing like doing a little bit of "replay" to spark old memories. :) This did get me thinking though. Outside of nostalgia, what are some current real world uses for BBS'? ​ Thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- atomic_cattleprod · 2023-09-01 02:13 From a technical perspective, no. One of the reasons why the BBS scene died so quickly after internet service became widespread and publicly available is that even early 90's web/internet technologies solved almost every technical problem that BBS sysops had been yearning to solve. By the turn of the century, the internet was already doing pretty much everything we had tried to accomplish with BBS's, but faster, cheaper, easier, and with a truly global reach. Most importantly, the internet quickly became accessible to users in ways BBS's were not. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with nostalgia for nostalgia's sake. The weird/interesting thing about BBS's and nostalgia itself is that a lot of what people seem to remember and miss about BBS's are things that were really a side-effect of the technological limitations of the day. Fidonet echomail, door games, ANSI art, and even the smaller, tighter-nit user communities, often with in-person meetups, were all made possible not so much because of what BBS's *could* do, but because of what they *couldn't* do that the internet can. For example, slow phone modems and high long-distance costs meant that all but the largest pay-to-use BBS's remained very regional. Most BBS's were frequented by users located close to each other (ie, all in the same local calling area). A given BBS would also often have a smaller core group of users who were most active in their system who became quite familiar with each other and the wider user-base of the BBS. This led to organized activities, meet-ups and such. Setting up a computer with a modem was also a non-trivial thing for many computer users at the time, so fewer people who had computers were interested or able to dial into BBSs, and those who did were often the types more interested in computers and technology in general. This also meant that a high proportion of people using BBS's were generally more technically literate and shared at least one area of interest with many other users. All of this put together contributes to the nostalgic idea that BBS's were populated by a smaller, more friendly group of people than the comparatively "toxic" internet of today. Having been both a sysop and an admin for a number of Fidonet technology networks of the day, I can definitely confirm that the BBS scene was also rife with toxicity. It was just better contained, again because of its more regional nature. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- alvarkresh · 2023-09-01 02:59 > One of the reasons why the BBS scene died so quickly after internet service became widespread and publicly available is that even early 90's web/internet technologies solved almost every technical problem that BBS sysops had been yearning to solve. Pretty much this. IRC was like multiline BBSes multiplied a thousandfold, as just one example. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BigBadBart25 · 2023-09-01 03:49 I have enjoyed BBS when I was young. The internet was not a thing yet and to me calling another computer to log on to a bbs was just awesome. I did it on a Commodore 64 with a 300 baud modem. Eventually I upgraded to a 1200. Then pcs came along and went up from there. I ran my own bbs for a small amount of time and learned a lot back then. FFWD to now. I have a BBS again and a list of BBS I visit when I can. I see. A post here that one commenter was very familiar with Fidonet, echomail, etc. I have a few message boards but I just can’t get them to communicate. I have tried help forums on face junk, some Reddit forums on here and they either talk over my head or send me to a wiki article for Synchronet. Been through that article a bunch of times. I need someone to mentor me through this and sceeenshare and show me where I messed up. If someone can do that, I’d be truly grateful and he’ll maybe I will get ya a coffee gift card or something for your help. Msg me please if you can help. Sysop for Penguin BBS. Mrpenguin.ddns.net:2023 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unix_42 · 2023-09-01 07:09 Usenet, too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Distribution-Radiant · 2023-09-01 14:31 >all but the largest pay-to-use BBS's remained very regional Rusty n Edie's flashbacks here ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Distribution-Radiant · 2023-09-01 14:32 If this was 1996, I could walk you through setting up Binkleyterm under OS/2 to launch Telegard when someone called in... Unfortunately, it's not 1996, and we're not using modems. Or OS/2. Or Binkleyterm. Or Telegard. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nevarro · 2023-09-01 15:35 Interesting question. The only real world use case I can think of for a BBS these days is the ability to play door games that are not playable using a web browser, DOSbox, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- replicant0wnz · 2023-09-01 16:25 I understood this entire reply 🤣 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Distribution-Radiant · 2023-09-01 17:30 Sup fellow graybeard? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- replicant0wnz · 2023-09-01 18:39 Aye ;-) I actually ran Renegade under OS/2 though, which was basically a fancy Telegard. Oh, and before OS/2 I used DESQview! I still own this too: ​ ​ https://preview.redd.it/ln0bjil5volb1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto =webp&s=f5498d295a22e48ea64e663b9d79344ed4136324 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BigBadBart25 · 2023-09-01 23:39 Thanks for the reply. Maybe someone on here can help me out here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Distribution-Radiant · 2023-09-02 01:10 I was running Renegade for a good bit; moved back to Telegard once Tim Strike picked up development of it and made a native OS/2 port. I was also running DESQview - had a 2 line BBS on a 386 SX/20. Once I moved into 486 land I went to OS/2. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JohnBoyAndBilly · 2023-09-02 06:44 This is a well-worded post, and explained things quite logically. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- replicant0wnz · 2023-09-03 02:28 I ran a heavily modded Renegade for a while, hex edit'd the OVR file to get cool ANSI prompts in certain areas and the such. I think I even ran a mode to get full line FILE\_ID.DIZ support as I think it was limited to 4 lines. There was a local guy that wrote a BBS software called Impulse and that was the last one I ran, was a beta tester for him. I only had one line, but I liked to have the ability to use my PC while the board was running :-) IRQ + COM port fun! I still have a backup, need to get it running under DOSBox just to check out the forums :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Distribution-Radiant · 2023-09-03 04:53 I have two tape backups, but... No tape drive. Don't remember what software I used (one tape would have been done under native OS/2, the other was DOS or OS/2). High likelihood that both tapes are unreadable after 25+ years anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- byteknight6 · 2023-09-03 14:45 I think the best "real world" use is that you can fire up your vintage computer and have some fun with it. Some of my favorite things to do are play BBS Wordle daily, read the latest news and sports headlines, and even check out my local weather forecast! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jfalcon206 · 2023-09-04 20:27 TBH: Reddit would be the equivalent of an Exec-PC or Compuserve of the time. Think about it: all of us are signed in, sending messages on a message forum/board/SIG, and having this dialog in an asynchronous fashion. While some systems would have to push the traffic to a "traffic hub" for delivery or collection, on the backend of this website, it pretty much does the same thing the moment I press "comment." Now, BBS did have games - it was much more terminal-centric, etc,. However, the major difference between the BBS and Reddit is the locality of the system. People have either forgotten - or never experienced a world where the only time you had international acquaintance or friendship with another person was usually through "snail mail," as in the Post Office because it was the cheapest way to have a conversation with them - notwithstanding messaging networks like 'FidoNet" which could deliver a message as cheap if not cheaper - provided you had. a computer or dumb terminal, and there was a benevolent person running a BBS local to your city's calling area (you couldn't call from Hollywood to Riverside back in the day - that was considered a long-distance call.). And don't forget, the person on the other end also had to have some way of calling in and retrieving, or it would be up to the system operator (SYSOP) on the other side of the world to determine whether or not they could reach your "international' friend. I was part of a "H/P" group called TNO that did an eZine. In one of our issues, one of our members in the group compiled an "Internet Outdial" list. Back in the day, the cheapest way to legally call other computers was to use PCPursuit or "StarLink" (inb4elon-srsly!), which was British Telecom/TymNet's competitor service (PCPursuit was GTE then Sprint - the same). We would call our local "in-dial", and get a carrier... see CONNECT on the screen, type some terminal and user login nonsense, then we would tell the "PAD" to make a virtual circuit connection to say "NYNYC" or "ILCHI" where we would land not at a prompt after it reports that a circuit was established, but an idle modem waiting for us to send "AT" commands and dial out from the modem pool in that city. All that is for $20/month between 6 pm and 6 am on weekdays and 24 hours on the weekends. Still cheaper than Compuserve rates, which were $6/hr from 7 pm to 7 am and $12+/hr during weekdays and non- evenings as the system shared resources with H.R. Block (the tax people). But coming back to locality - that's what made BBSs special. It's like the 2600 monthly meetings at some public place with possibly the last remaining payphones on the planet - it's the common connection that there are people in whatever hole of a town you live in who may actually have brought weirdos together and can communicate with one another without actually being physically present - or even hearing their voice or seeing their face. Reddit could do it with the regional or city /r/'s But that's more like just supporting your local sports franchise. It's certainly not tailored to a specific group in a specific physical location somewhere on this planet. /r/bbs is way too broad and global - as is the internet in general, and that is the piece you're probably looking for. The BBS software "swap" parties or simple "GT - Get Together" were that link to meet whatever a-hole is on the other side of the screen and be able to tell them to their face how they really feel about them - I've had it happen many times. And each and every time, I respect them even more for saying it to my face. That's the problem with this world! This screen is what we see of people's thoughts - but what are the likelihoods of any of us meeting - let alone physically in close proximity? Yes! Practically Zero! And that's the problem with society, with people and culture, and with how people have gotten into this "rut" in the online world. Anyone who's been in the scene since the beginning knows all this bullshit is cyclical. Email Flame Wars, IRC wars, actual boycotting and choosing sides of which BBS you will only support... then it happened with Internet and UseNet,... then it happened with Yahoo/MSN chat and forums, then Slashdot, then... blah blah blah. Nothing is new under the sun. We repeat our mistakes and steal from the past to remake it for the present. But those who know where we are in the world. Nothing to see. Shake it off.. keep pulling each other back together, and maybe we can repair ourselves and the country to recover from the 1990s so we can then fix what happened in the 1980s and 1970s... But mark my words, it will happen again in a decade-ish. Again, and again and again... but next time, it will be TikTok. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jfalcon206 · 2023-09-04 20:43 A few weeks ago, I was researching to figure out how big .ru's FidoNet presence is in its current (today) state. The short answer is that under seven BBS systems exist in \*all\* of Russia. Probably closer to 5. The reason: It was the 1990s! The wall fell, the Russian Ruble was worth less than toilet paper, and who could afford computers? Certainly, they did start getting them, but flipping through their forums using Google Translate, I get the sense from their discussions that they lack all the "Nostalgia" we have here. I guess we can call it "Western" or "American" privilege, but yeah... I wouldn't say it's all that. They are into retrocomputing as much as we are today as they've caught up. So, if I were to look at the BBS scene - I would likely look at it like an old house - it may need to be gutted to the studs and rewired and redone. But if it has a good floor plan and is in a good location, there is no reason why it couldn't serve as the kindling or fuel for a new "diaspora" or "decentralized" communication platform. SynchroNet out of the box is 99% there already with both the terminal and web interface components. But it all just needs to be thrown in the blender with HTML5 and WebSockets added to reset the technology into another generation. People need to look at BBS not as what it was but more like what can be made from it. As Vin Diesel said in xXx: "Stop thinking Prague police and start thinking PlayStation!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jfalcon206 · 2023-09-04 20:50 Of course, the hardest part is bringing it back home and localizing it again. In that, 6G mobile will be the key to that. Not the speed or saturation, but the Auth/Access/Transit at the network edge... This is the next billion-dollar idea and it was said here first. Make sure to contact me for my address to send me swag. You're welcome. Nothing more wanted, just make it happen. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- YserviusPalacost · 2023-09-06 12:16 < Setting up a computer with a modem was also a non-trivial thing ... those who did were often the types more interested in computers and technology in general. This is one of the aspects of BBS'es that I find to have the greatest contrast with today's online experience. The technical hurdles not only made it more or less and exclusive club, but it also required essentially a baseline level of intelligence. Whether or not you liked the folks on the other side of the screen was one irrelevant, but you knew that they were at least intelligent enough to actually be able to get online. Compare that with today's TikTok culture and how 99.999% repeating population are so technically illiterate that wifi is viewed as a basic human right and a utility. "The wifi sucks at this campground." No matter how proud I was of the work that we were all doing back in the day, I'm quite ashamed of where we've landed today. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- atomic_cattleprod · 2023-09-06 14:50 >you knew that they were at least intelligent enough to actually be able to get online. They were intelligent enough *about computers* to get online. That is an important distinction that I think gets overlooked a lot when reminiscing about the intelligence level of your average BBS user compared to your average internet user. I was fortunate to have been a BBS user and sysop through the early 90's (as a high school student) and then watched the public internet evolve in the later 90's and early 00's as a University student and a computer sales consultant, and then finally as an ERP consultant. One thing I've learned over the past 30+ years being knee-deep in this world is that computer literacy and general intelligence are two very different things. I've met a lot of incredibly intelligent and interesting people who would *never* have used a BBS but who absolutely use the internet and have become empowered by it. A couple of examples off the top of my head: * A veterinarian who was a very early adopter of web-cam technology. He built a web-cam network in his kennel area so that his customers could check in on their pets for overnight stays. He knew just enough to work with us to buy the hardware and describe to a student what he wanted built. He had a website up and running where he could give temporary access to specific cameras for his clients. * A neurosurgeon who wanted to record his surgeries for both his own records and to provide to customers and colleagues later on. This person was incredibly skilled at his craft, but had no idea how to even get online (this was about 2002). I was able to show him how to run iMovie and a camera, and he was able to work with an IT provider to host the videos. Outside of this, I've worked with numerous engineers, accountants, lawyers and doctors who are incredibly intelligent in their own way, but who, again, are not necessarily that tech savvy when it comes to computer use outside of their respective fields. ​ >Compare that with today's TikTok culture and how 99.999% repeating population are so technically illiterate that wifi is viewed as a basic human right and a utility. Most people aren't mechanics, farmers, electricians, or plumbers, either, and yet most still manage to drive cars, acquire food, turn on lights, and flush toilets. I would generally count it as a *good* thing that technology tends to evolve to the point that it is accessible to the general public. While it may mean that I have to share traffic with neo-nazis, moronic influencers (or as Letterkenny put it "influenzas"), and other annoying people, the so-called "TikTok culture" of today also means that I have far fewer barriers communicating with people I want to (not the least of whom are clients), and there are also far fewer barriers to *other* interesting aspects of the internet that were completely unthinkable in the BBS days (like the ability to do even the most mundane things like order pizza delivery from an online menu). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- YserviusPalacost · 2023-09-12 01:13 > They were intelligent enough about computers to get online. That is an important distinction that I think gets overlooked a lot when reminiscing about the intelligence level of your average BBS user compared to your average internet user. I can certainly agree with you on that point. I know many people that are extremely intelligent but aren't very computer savvy; medical specialists, mostly. And while that is a worthwhile distinction to make it also should be noted that it doesn't apply indirectly either. That is to say that while BBS usage implied a level of intelligence, intelligence did not imply BBS usage. Conversely, by saying the BBS users were intelligent is not the same as saying that those that did not use BBS'es were not intelligent. Intelligence falls within many various domains, and prescribing intelligence within these domains, or moreso, subdomains, is not really describing intelligence at all, but merely interests. For instance, one can not disagree that Jordan Peterson is a *highly* intelligent individual, but does that make Warren Buffet any less intelligent because his interests lie in business and finance rather than clinical psychology? Of course not. The differences in types of intelligence don't necessarily reflect on the level of intelligence. This is not to negate the influence of other quantifiable qualities as well, such as curiosity, honor, upbringing, etc. > the so-called "TikTok culture" of today also means that I have far fewer barriers communicating with people I want to, and there are also far fewer barriers to other interesting aspects of the internet that were completely unthinkable in the BBS days This is very true. Who ever thought that I'd be able to order a large thin crust Dominos pizza and go pick it up without talking to a single person? Or that we'd have computing power that far exceeds that of the ENIAC in our front pockets? The things that we take for granted every day today would have been heralded as science fiction less than a hundred years ago. However, no matter how much I try to see the glass as half full, I can't help but notice that it's also half empty. And maybe it's just me, but I tend to lament that which is lost in favor of that which has been gained, especially when that which we've gained is really a streamlined or superficial version of what we've already had.