BBS Software Development - question for developers, SYSOPs reddit / bbs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wigginbalz · 2021-12-13 03:55 Why hasn't BBS server and client software evolved to include modern graphics/sounds/etc? I was a BBS user back in the late 80s early 90s. I used Procomm Plus (my client software) to access BBSs local to me. I recently signed onto a BBS for the 1st time in almost 30 years. You have to have a client still today to access BBSs (Synchterm), so why haven't the clients and server software packages evolved? Web browser are required to browse the internet and websites...Chrome, Firefox, Edge, Safari have continued to add features along with the server side Apache, IIS, etc. Just wondering why the client/server packages for BBSs stalled. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- electronicchicken · 2021-12-13 05:02 At a certain point you're just re-inventing the web browser and calling it a "BBS client". Many people still use BBSs today out of nostalgia or preference for a textmode UI. If they want rich media content and GUIs they are spoiled for choice as it is. Some BBS software includes a web server, so it's possible to provide an interface for more GUI-oriented users that way. No need to reinvent the browser when you can just let people use one. Attempts were made to bring graphics etc. into the BBS space, or introduce more integrated client/server models. It was all just too little, too late, and to little purpose. There isn't very much that the BBS provided that hasn't long since been reinvented or reimagined using more modern technology. SyncTERM does have support for RIP graphics among several other things. At the end of the day you're sort of halfway between the traditional BBS experience and whispers of something more modern. It's fun to play with but it isn't going to bring the users back in droves. I've certainly considered writing a modern desktop and mobile client backed by a remote API, but that's not a small effort. I'd have to be pretty enthusiastic about it for a month or so. Enthusiastic enough to ignore the fact that it would see very little use. A lot more could be said, but it starts getting into "what is a BBS anyway?" territory. It's a messy topic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wigginbalz · 2021-12-13 05:26 Thanks for your reply. Reading your reply got me thinking that Discord was built on a lot of the same ideas/features that BBSs have. So one could say that BBSs were the Grandfather of Discord. I could see modern BBS development going the direction of your personally hosted Discordish type of client/server application, add "proper" file sections and door games. Just me thinking about it... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- electronicchicken · 2021-12-13 06:14 I use Discord for voice/video/text chat. I don't see it as being entirely analogous to a BBS, but perhaps it has features that I haven't explored. But certainly, if you want to host an online service for your community - whatever community that may be - with files/messages/chat/games under one roof, then that's either a BBS or something that could at least be compared to one. This is where "what is a BBS" comes into play. Reddit does some of what the BBS used to do, so does Discord, so even does Facebook and Twitter and others. Hell, so does Office 365. Meanwhile your favourite BBS is no longer your gateway to the online world, but something you connect to once you're already online. It's just another thing on the internet. So what's the essential thing that makes a BBS a BBS? What are the core features you find on a BBS that you can't find in one place anywhere else? Messages, Files, Doors, self-hosting? I'm not sure there's a need. The BBS went away because its users spread out over the internet. Today, people seem content to have a subreddit for their interest, and a Discord 'server' for users of that subreddit to join, etc. Do you find there's much desire to bring all of that together in once place today? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nhaines · 2021-12-13 08:31 Discord is basically centralized IRC on the web. (The desktop client is just an Electron app. It's all HTML and Javascript.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DosGamerMan · 2021-12-13 12:29 I think the most advanced I saw it get was [RIPTERM](https://www.reddi t.com/r/bbs/comments/oq0fhi/ripterm_hasnt_appeared_in_this_sub_am_i_th e_only/). I did a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/bbs/comments/oq0fhi/ ripterm_hasnt_appeared_in_this_sub_am_i_the_only/) on that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wndrbr3d · 2021-12-13 19:03 >At a certain point you're just re-inventing the web browser and calling it a "BBS client". Many people still use BBSs today out of nostalgia or preference for a textmode UI. If they want rich media content and GUIs they are spoiled for choice as it is. 1000% this. As someone who grew up on BBS's from as early as 8 years old to the point where the internet came around while I was in High School, they will always hold a special place in my heart. That being said, as with any technology, it begs the question in 2021 (almost 2022!): do they solve a specific problem or can they do something better than currently available solutions? As far as I'm concerned, across the board the answer is no. But to that point, what they still provide me personally is nostalgia and something which, regardless if there's a better option, I still consider fun to use every now and then. Speaking for myself, what I'm looking for in the BBS scene is the familiar. I honestly don't want innovation because I'm not nostalgic for that -- I want what I remember, how I remember it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wndrbr3d · 2021-12-13 19:08 The honest answer to your question is around the time Client-Server applications were being developed/deployed for BBS packages, the internet had already won. An example is Galacticomm's Worldgroup 3.2 was released in 1999 which had a Client-Server model (custom Windows Client) as well as allowing Sysops to operate as ISP's - but by that point there was no putting the toothpaste back in the tube. The BBS scene was basically dead. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Digimaus2K · 2021-12-13 23:19 Discord is based on IRC and not on BBS technology. I use Discord on a daily basis but still prefer IRC. As has been said, if I wanted fancy graphics and point-and-click for my BBS, I'd just set up forum software on a website. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wigginbalz · 2021-12-14 00:31 Reasons I related Discord to BBSs: 1. It has a similar "message base" features...or "text channels" conversation topic grouping 2. It has the ability to subscribe to updates from other Discords...similar to bringing in messages from Fido net in BBSs 3. User permissions...however more limited in Discord 4. File sharing...yes but not like BBSs could do. 5. invite codes...similar to knowing the phone number for a BBS I get what everyone is saying and I appreciate the input. As u/electronicchicken stated...Facebk, reddit, twitter, etc all share some the same features that BBSs have/had. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wigginbalz · 2021-12-14 00:34 I have never heard of Worldgroup. I have worked on many different systems over the decades Novell, Linux, HP-UX, SCO, all flavors of Windows...but I have never heard of Worldgroup. Guess I'm headed down that rabbit hole. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ozznixon · 2021-12-14 00:42 Depends how far on the evolution chain you want to go up. Like u/electronicchicken states, eventually you end up making the web again. Now with that said, there are projects that are evolving to more than 16 color ANSI, and horrible RIP and NAPLPS vector graphics. My glitch terminal supports ANSI, ANSI256, ANSI True Color, VT50 to VT220 syntax, along full interactive mouse and synth sound (like MIDI) along with sampling \[MP3 loops and full tracks\]. Visually, I can also support SVG and HTML 5.0 standards - as glitch is web based (websocket) terminal. The terminal also supports all known FONTS from SyncTerm that you mention, along with what I have codenamed "TRIP Graphics" or Turbo-RIP Graphics - not based upon the RIP protocol, however, producing 3D animated home tours and neighbor animations (all SVG drawn). And lately, I have been introducing WRO (Windowed Remote Objects) - which is a streaming version of DFM (Delphi GUI Forms), but I support Windows, Mac and Linux - and everything renders looking native... and I am working on a 2D tile serious of the SyncTerm FONTS - in True Color PNG (8x8 to 16x16). Also I support inline URL downloads, and YModem-G (which is faster than ZModem since we're over TCP/IP). My challenge is, I have also written the BBS concurrently (solo), and I have recently taken over the rewrite of ProBoard BBS software. Along with implementing EMSI, iEMSI, BinkP, Tosser, and Nodelist Compiler - all in my spare time since 2017. I am not a web SEO guru, so my project grows in numbers slowly - except for people involved. So, it is not stale, I am coding all of this as fast as I can, when time permits - some days not sleeping for 2 or 3 days. PS. My core engines and compilers - I wrote also - but I am ANTI-OPEN SOURCE. So, I just post specifications (like when I figured out the trick to detect UTF-8 or not during my ANSI detection routine) - some of the specifications are posted in [ryobbs.com](http://www.ryobbs.com) Wiki - when I have time and feel like updating it (rarely). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wigginbalz · 2021-12-14 00:48 There probably isn't much need for it today (probably non at all). The "intimacy" (if you could say that) of connecting to someones PC in their home, browsing the files/messages/games that they wanted to share is kinda lost now. Sure they may have website/Discord/etc. but that really isn't theirs. It's hosted somewhere else and most importantly with a large corporation monitoring/moderating/collecting "metrics" on it. And security has changed this significantly too. Definitely not best practice to host a website off your personal computer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wigginbalz · 2021-12-14 00:51 I get the nostalgia part...that was the main reason I found this sub and signed onto a BBS for the 1st time in 30 years. Signing on and seeing the ansi graphics is what made me ask my original question. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- electronicchicken · 2021-12-14 04:28 I don't mean to knock the idea completely. The intimacy/privacy stuff has its place. If you belong to some special interest group, and the group needs an online "home" where files, messages, chat, etc. are all provided, and full control of the platform is desired, then that's basically a BBS. There's plenty of BBS software available, but it's either legacy software or has a lot of that in its bones and DNA - and one way or another just doesn't appeal to modern users. There's probably a *place* for a more modern BBS, but the people who still use/develop them don't want it, and the people who need it aren't familiar with the concept, or don't like what's available. So it hasn't evolved in the way you're describing because there's just too much of a gap between these two groups. It'd basically need to be reinvented. I did some work on a project a couple of years ago which was basically "what if someone reinvented the BBS in 2019" with little to no regard for classic BBS trappings. There would be no special regard for legacy door games, nor for message networks built on dated models, nor 80x25 terminals, and on and on. It was basically an engine for managing users, groups, messages, files, and chat, all with very flexible hierarchy, and then assorted interfaces to that data. It was assumed that most people would use it via an app or the web, but an SSH-only textmode UI was an option. I really liked the idea, but it was going to be a *lot* of work, and I didn't know who I was making it for; I'm fairly certain that most BBSers would *not* have wanted it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- overtrick1978 · 2021-12-27 03:00 Even better, it could include some kind of client scripting language or a dedicated language for describing styles, animations, vector graphics, etc. Some kind of markup language perhaps.