How to bring back BBS's from the grave reddit / bbs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- L1th0 · 2015-10-29 05:53 Before the web as we know it, BBS's were extremely popular and a vital source for communication and entertainment. This all came to an abrupt end when the modern web/internet came about. So the question is, how does one bring back the BBS from the grave? To keep this short, I'll focus on a few main categories. This is not an all-inclusive list, but just putting the main ideas out there for thought. 1. (Most Important) Create a system around the network (success already proven through WWIV a long time ago) Create a QWK type network similar to WWIV and VBBS where systems connect together "out of the box" to form a network where each BBS/System can remotely create/add message/file areas to the network. For those who are not familiar with VBBS network, for instance, as soon as you installed the BBS software, you could choose from 100's of message subs right out of the box. Also, you could add your own message sub to the network through a simple user interface. This network should include file based networks as well. Basically, this would be a FidoNet bundeled with an install package. You install this system in a couple of clicks, and BAM!, you're trading messages. 2. System must be written in a language where someone in college learning about computers can edit the code easily and contribute to the system's advancement. I'm not a programmer, but my suggestion would be javascript and C++? This seems where things are going on a number of systems. 3. System must be web centric. System must be WEB based not only text based. It would be OK if there is a ssh/telnet for a (classic BBS mode), but the system must be web centric. Must support CSS and/or bundled with PHP. Immediately after the system is installed, a person should have a modern looking website which can be customized so one can host their "gaming guild, blog, or hobby site" with ease. Support for web templates. Support for blog post sharing through the network (see step 1). An example web BBS front end would be the E107 Content Management System (CMS) http://e107coders.org/news.php With this said, E107 is not a BBS (have a spirit of a BBS) because it primarily does not network between systems. This is a big negative since networking boosts traffic in Message Basses, Games, and widgits such as oneliners/autoposts. 4. Must support the addition and standardization of modern game/door platforms. Instead of text based games, the new BBS system will need to foster the development of flash/java type games which are mutli- player and interface with the user accounts of the web based BBS and its system. 5. Have a back-end database. Not much to say here, but need database software, like Mysql, for website data and user data. 6. Should focus on the "BBS Systems" networking capabilities and not so much on modern internet sites for searching. A BBS should be a self-contained system with its own netmail, network, and search capabilities. An example would be: A BBS should be able to search through its own network to find files/messages/people. A data dump would append each site's database with files/messages from other networked systems. 7. Real-time web based Inter-BBS chat/text system. Could interface with a phone app which one could download to interact with members of the particular BBS/Network system, play games, and/or access files/photos/etc... Now, who's got the time to make this? :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- inwats · 2015-10-29 13:55 > (Most Important) Create a system around the network (success already proven through WWIV a long time ago) Create a QWK type network similar to WWIV and VBBS where systems connect together "out of the box" to form a network where each BBS/System can remotely create/add message/file areas to the network. For those who are not familiar with VBBS network, for instance, as soon as you installed the BBS software, you could choose from 100's of message subs right out of the box. Also, you could add your own message sub to the network through a simple user interface. This network should include file based networks as well. Basically, this would be a FidoNet bundeled with an install package. You install this system in a couple of clicks, and BAM!, you're trading messages. I was really into BBSs in the 80s, and for a while a sysop of a few boards (my own as well as co-sysop). VBBS was my all time favorite for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I see a lot of similarities with blogs/forums today. Similar content, loosely connected networks of people, etc. What websites today seem to lack is a decent protocol for sharing content. Take that a little further, websites also lack an established network of topics like VirtualNet. Protocol-wise, RSS is about the closest thing, but it lacks many features that would truly link websites together. > System must be written in a language where someone in college learning about computers can edit the code easily and contribute to the system's advancement. I'm not a programmer, but my suggestion would be javascript and C++? This seems where things are going on a number of systems. PHP, but I'll get to that in a minute. > System must be web enabled. System must be WEB based not text based. It would be OK if there is a ssh/telnet for a (maintenance mode), but the system must be web centric. Must support CSS and/or bundled with PHP. Immediately after the system is installed, a person should have a modern looking website which can be customized so one can host their "gaming guild, blog, or hobby site" with ease. Support for web templates. Support for blog post sharing through the network (see step 1). "WEB based and not text based." Bingo. Keyboards were great in a text- only world, and text was great in a keyboard-only world, but.. I'm sorry, I've tried telnet BBSs on my phone and tablet. It's just way too inefficient. Not to mention that rich text with images is so much better than plain text. I agree with everything else you said. So, a rough proposal: I started playing with Drupal lately, and it constantly reminds me BBS software. I think it can be the next BBS platform, especially with Drupal's goal of being able to provide a headless content backend. Drupal is based around the concept of Nodes, which can represent any type of content - a blog post, a recipe, a forum post, a product, etc. They could easily be traditional messages and bulletins in a traditional BBS. Drupal also has a great user/role system, which is tied well into the Nodes, views, content types, etc. I mentioned a VBBS-like protocol earlier. In the Drupal-BBS world, a Node-sharing protocol and system would be key. The goal would be to allow a Drupal-BBS newbie to subscribe to Node feeds, and place them on their website. The interaction would (should) be bi-directional though (except in some cases where you might want read-only broadcasts). It'd be tough to do from both a technical and governance point of view. But it's doable. Based on that or a similar protocol, you could also build a Drupal-BBS mobile client app which could interact with any Drupal-BBS. You'd have to add some defined structure to the BBS's content, but that's doable too. Getting to your last point ("Real-time web based chat/text system..."): One area where BBSs accelerated at was the feeling of being in a 'place.' There's very little online that gives that feeling. Sure, this subreddit says there are "~6 users here now," and other websites (like forum sites) will tell you who's currently logged in and reading the site, but it still lacks that community feel. I think a web based BBS should do a little more to making the user feel 'there.' Something like a status bar at the bottom of the page that shows real-time notifications of others logging in and out. And of course with all that, like you mentioned, real-time chat, games, etc. I think Drupal can do all this. it's designed to be remixed into distributions. With some remixing, cleaver inter-site protocol design, module development, and some global message board governance, I think it could be done. Plus, you could slap a text-only telnet/ssh frontend on it to be cool. So, who's got the time to make this? ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nolageek · 2015-10-29 17:44 So you want a web forum? Curious how would this help the BBS scene, which by definition is nothing like what you described? Personally, I don't want my board on the web. That's the point of my running BBS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NuSkooler · 2015-10-29 17:52 I think you have some good points, though I do not agree fully on them all. Responses to each: 1. I really like this. I've been working on my own soft in Node.js, and I think a "out of the box hookup" may have to be something I invest some time in after some of the higher priority bugs are worked out. There are a lot of good technologies out there for auto discovery, message passing, and even distributed protocols (e.g. no central server required) that could be looked at for a slick design here. Another option may be to leverage an existing system such as [Discus REST APIs](https://disqus.com/api/docs/). 2. I'm writing ENiGMA½ in Node.js for this very reason. 3. I agree that the web must be integrated in various ways, but I completely disagree about "web based not text based". We already have the web. It's an everyday thing, and one can build vibrant web apps and communities with it very easily. When you really think about it, these are just modern extensions to what a BBS is/was back in the day. Text based ANSI/ASCII is where it's at for a lot of us. Nostalgia? Sure, but I don't think that should (with other modern features) prevent people from joining in the fun. 4. In today's world it's easy to make real time multi-system games, but again I disagree about making them non-textual, because again, we already have those dime a dozen. However, there are some very interesting things one can do now with larger (> 80x25) surface areas and fast connections. Take a look at what [Josh Renaud has been doing with parallax scrolling](http://breakintochat.com/blog/2015/01/14/parallax- scrolling-effect-in-ansi/) and such. Very cool! 5. For me this is SQLite, though it could easily be PostgreSQL, MySQL, or a NoSQL such as MongoDB. 6. Sure 7. Absolutely. Real time all sorts of stuff honestly. This stuff is cake (and expected) these days. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nolageek · 2015-10-29 18:40 I agree with your take on the post. I'm not sure how OP thinks abandoning everything that makes a (traditional) BBS a BBS does anything to bring the scene "back from the grave." Literally everything on his list already exists except for a way to network posts / profiles between web forums. Which, although neat, doesn't really feel needed to me. I go to different forums for different reasons. I think reddit is the closest 'web thing' to a traditional BBS we have, minus the games of course. If anything I see traditional BBSs as a way for people to get *off* of the web. To gain some of that privacy back that we once had. (I just remembered my BBS's welcome page used to say "Roadkill on the Information Superhighway") Instead of roadkill, I see BBSing as an off-ramp now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- L1th0 · 2015-10-30 02:54 VBBS was my all time favorite for exactly the reasons you mentioned. VBBS was flippin awesome! :-) And IMO I think the networking for the time was unmatched. I still miss this. started playing with Drupal lately, and it constantly reminds me BBS software. Yes, I'm a fan of drupal as well. And, this is exactly what I'm looking for and maybe the software market is missing: A drupal with networking OR a BBS with a nice web management front end built like a CMS. I believe it's just a matter of time before old BBS technology and drupal type CMS packages merge. A good example is that SynchroNet supports templates and has a couple of nice one's available. And, on the CMS side, they have basically the same features of a BBS minus the networking. You would think sharing of blog posts would be a no- brainer. But, the CMS crowd does not understand the power of networking and the BBS crowd is stuck in the text world. Not that is a bad thing. I like the text BBS's, but the world has moved on... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- L1th0 · 2015-10-30 03:32 I agree that the web must be integrated in various ways, but I completely disagree about "web based not text based". I believe text based BBS's will be around and do have a place. They do have nostalgia value and are even a work of art. And since I grew up when computers were more text based, I can relate to text based BBS's and enjoy them. But, they do have a market cap. There are only so many people around who remember and enjoy text based BBS's and some would say the number is still declining. And to the younger generation, text based systems may feel awkward and uninteresting. I could be wrong about this, but it just my opinion. On the other hand, I do not think we can deny that the reason a BBS package like SynchroNet is, by far, the most popular BBS software is due solely on its text menus. Since, there are many good BBS system that "look" just as good, or even better, than the telnet side of SynchroNet. Basically, people run SynchroNet because it boasts modern features and it's easy to configure. In the end, I think what I'm describing is a new product. It can be called a web based BBS or a Networked CMS. There are many die-hard text based fans and they will not like a web based system. On the other hand, there is a growing number of people who like the web and want all the BBS type features (especially the networking and local community feel) on a website. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- razordead · 2015-10-30 04:55 I only have comments on 2 of these. > (Most Important) Create a system around the network (success already proven through WWIV a long time ago) Create a QWK type network similar to WWIV and VBBS where systems connect together "out of the box" to form a network where each BBS/System can remotely create/add message/file areas to the network. Why does a modern internet user care that they can see the same messages from either Joe's Car Forum or Ashley's Car Forum? Message networks made sense when we had to access them via phone lines & we didn't want to make long-distance calls to read them. On the internet, it isn't useful & I find it actively irritates me. I go to different web sites expecting to see different content. When I see all the same things on 10 different sites, it annoys me to no end. > Must support the addition and standardization of modern game/door platforms. Instead of text based games, the new BBS system will need to foster the development of flash/java type games ... So, speaking of dead/dying technology, why are we even considering Flash? Java is at least still being developed, though the core platform is iffy at best (Android & others are a different story). I would say Flash is going to be not just dead soon, but out-right beaten to a bloody pulp. The last I heard Adobe has basically already quit developing it. They're only putting out security fixes now. With all the recent Flash-based security issues, I give at most a year before Flash is actively blocked from all current/modern web browsers. I agree that we could use a more modern door game system, but why not HTML5/JavaScript or something else that's much more future-proof than Flash? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kirkman14 · 2015-10-30 16:10 Thanks for the shoutout on parallax. I actually have a new parallax demo coming out in the Mistigris 1015 release tonight! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- L1th0 · 2015-10-31 04:04 Why does a modern internet user care that they can see the same messages from either Joe's Car Forum or Ashley's Car Forum? Because instead of 100 users trading messages, you have 1000's with networked message bases. So, speaking of dead/dying technology, why are we even considering Flash? . Flash is still being developed. There are new versions and patches on a Monthly basis. There are sites like: http://www.kongregate.com/game s_for_your_site?pdis=5q-b&sort=newest&srid=50 Where you can download flash games and put them on your website. But, most of them are not multi-player and do not interface with user accounts on a website. . I give at most a year before Flash is actively blocked from all current/modern web browsers . Yes, Flash has alot of security flaws. I'm not stuck on flash or java. And HTML5 is a good addition which I did not mention. I just used flash as an example because there are alot of games already made with flash. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- L1th0 · 2015-10-31 04:13 I like the off-ramp analogy. Good way to describe it. Let's put BBS's on the on-ramp :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- L1th0 · 2015-10-31 04:24 I remember the "spirit" of the BBS which was a close knit local group of people, living and interacting in the same area code (back in the day) I miss how things were back then compared to how the internet is now. It does not matter if the BBS is text, web, or 3D using oculus Rift :) as long as it has the same set of standard components and provides the same "spirit" as a BBS did back in the day. Maybe this an unreachable goal and those days are over, but I still believe software can be made to make better online communities than they exist now. Or do we just have to accept Facebook and such as the default way of interacting in the world... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nolageek · 2015-10-31 15:02 But you literally are describing a web forum. :) Those already exist. In fact - you're describing Facebook. So you want Facebook, but not a really big and powerful one? :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nolageek · 2015-10-31 15:11 But they're not going to be. Let's work with traditional BBSing's strengths - privacy. People are looking for ways to get 'off the grid' so to speak. I'm all for ways to have BBSs more accessible via modern web/other interfaces - but I do not want to turn my BBS into some web forum / bbs hybrid. All that stuff exists already and is cool - use it all the time, but telnet, ANSI screens, retro/nostalgia, and privacy are what makes BBSing an alternative to that. Those **are** its appeal to (most) people who run/call boards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nolageek · 2015-10-31 15:14 > On the other hand, there is a growing number of people who > like the web and want all the BBS type features (especially the > networking and local community feel) on a website. And it's called facebook. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mro_1337 · 2015-11-01 00:37 all this stuff is shit that is not a bbs and i dont think users would even want it. you could also piece together what you want quite easily using today's popular scripts and software. also i looked at your own bbs. very little going on here. very little modified. i was hoping to see something that would be a product of someone with a lot of ideas. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- L1th0 · 2015-11-01 01:05 Thanks for the comment, but I'm not interested in the telnet side as much as web side. Maybe I will do more on the telnet side when I run out of web projects.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mro_1337 · 2015-11-02 04:57 you are running a bbs but dont want to run a bbs? also your web needs work, too. you are pretty much running the stock web interface and you embedded videos and put in links. nothing revolutionary