Rough Fidonet Node List analysis: Perhaps 100-150 systems total are still active. reddit / bbs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paco_Smithereens · 2015-10-26 21:26 Concerning: **FidoNet Nodelist for Friday, October 16, 2015 -- Day number 289 : 13067** **EDIT:** I am writing something far more comprehensive to get more accurate info. I did not realize that in some cases, the port number is specified in another field like **ITN:** -- this obviously doesn't impact the resolvable hostname count which is still **318.** Please note the information here is *unverified*, *sloppily arrived at* and *unreliable*, except for the "currently accessible" list of telnet systems, which I verified somewhat manually. A few days ago [I posted this query about the Fidonet node list](https ://www.reddit.com/r/bbs/comments/3pp887/whats_the_deal_with_the_fidone t_node_list/). I took the most recent version of the Nodelist I could find and iterated and *cut* through it to see if the hostnames in question resolved. I don't have the time to see if my hacky command line stuff missed anything in the Node list, but I don't think so. Of the hostnames that did resolve, I attempted telnet connections with the listed host. Currently, the total of connectable systems in the nodelist stands at 104 -- but even this is slightly inflated since in some cases I found the BBS on a different port than specified in the nodelist. Help me sanity check this: if you run a board or regularly use one that you know carries Fidonet, verify that it is listed below. Some observations: * Most remaining BBS culture is in North America, by orders of magnitude. * Russia has all but disappeared - I think I found 2 boards still running and accessible unless a lot of the listed nodes with phone numbers actually still take dial-up. As far as I can tell there are zero Fidonet systems left in the rest of Asia or Africa -- unless, again, I'm missing something (or if the ones with dial-up numbers are still accessible in that manner). There was one system I connected to from Argentina, and I think one from Mexico. A smattering in Europe, and a few in New Zealand. I may have hit an Australian board at some point but didn't notice. * I did not test any dial-up systems, obviously. How many Fidonet- enabled boards still have dial-up, I do not know. I inflated the "estimated boards left" to 150 (there are about 100 internet accessible) to account for these. Perhaps I am underestimating, but I don't think so. Does anyone know if parts of the world are still so starved for Internet connectivity that people maintain dialup as a practical matter? * Many systems in the list are "unlisted." I am unsure why or what purpose there would be to this. I also didn't check some of the sites which may be mail-only. * Synchronet, predictably, dominates what's left but there were also a bunch of Wildcat, VirtualAdvanced, Mystic, and some Remote Access systems. There were a smattering of "alternative" platforms too, like BBBS and...maybe an MBSE (I forget). * The nodelist is a complete mess. Cleaning it up looks like a thankless job so, nothing in any of these posts should be taken as criticism of anyone. I wouldn't want to do it. * Of what I could pull out of the list with bash, **318** BBSes with an internet hostname resolved (of which **~100** were actually connectable), and **511** did not resolve at all. Any recommendations of how to do this in a more clean and definitive manner (or if there are any other kinds of stats anyone might be interested in) would be appreciated (possibly no one cares.) Systems I could telnet to - in some cases, just kindasorta (telnet answered but gave me garbage, BUSY, or a "down" message.) filegate.net cmech.dynip.com wpusa.dynip.com bbs.darkrealms.ca mysteria.com techware.dynip.com realitycheckbbs.com realitycheckbbs.org wd1cks.org nix.synchro.net vert.synchro.net theboard.synchro.net bitsunrise.com shodan.synchro.net wastelands-bbs.net bbs.mojosworld.net tdmonline.org htc.zapto.org hardwired.pharcyde.org fidonet.wabusa.com fireballex.com tek1systems.com binkp.eothnet.com ewbbs.synchro.net fidonet.wabusa.com manning.webhop.net cfbbs.dtdns.net battlestarbbs.dyndns.org bbs.weather-station.org technoquarry.com eldritch.darktech.org ftn.tequilamockingbirdonline.net sectiononebbs.com fido.sinnershaven.com nn1.darktech.org lionsden.darktech.org bbs.electronicchicken.com tinysbbs.com hpbbs.dyndns.org siliconu.synchro.net shenks.synchro.net bbs.dmine.net bbs.tek42.net valhalla.synchro.net tbbs.homeip.net 4c.dyndns.org <- shows BUSY (possibly retro software with current caller) throwbackbbs.hopto.org syrinxbbs.ddns.net ivy.cascadesbbs.com reality.hopto.org bbs.retroarchive.org trmb.ca lunatic.zapto.org tinfoil.synchro.net bbs.chernobylnetworks.ru catch22bbs.com wpusa.dynip.com bbs.outpostbbs.net winserver.us eastsidebbs.com bbs.at2k.org kj4tkv.org irex.hdcbbs.com bbs.archaicbinary.net binkp.eothnet.com afterhours-bbs.com bbs.docsplace.org orbitbbs.com binkp.deckersheaven.com localyocalbbs.com bbs.efectolinux.com thewallbbs.com bills.synchro.net fidonet.wabusa.com sq1bbs.com bbs.shadowscope.com thegateb.synchro.net skullsbbs.com sursum-corda.com wx1der.dyndns.org bbs.foodvault.net bbs.kristyandrick.com tmzbbs01.synchro.net cmech.dynip.com bbbs.net 221.selfip.net:32 (wrong port in nodelist) 2.221.1.rbb.dy.fi:32 (wrong port in nodelist) rbb.homeip.net:32 (wrong port in nodelist) datenbahn.dd-dns.de bamberg-ot.de fido.cisbbs.nl skynetbbs.fidonet.be (Mail Only) fido.m19.cz (Up but broken) us3qz.ddns.ukrtel.net (Does not announce, just asks for password) dkamenski.no-ip.info ftn.sysgod.orgcsc 1stchoicecore.co.nz mutiny.av4rist.nz momiabbs.no-ip.info cscnet1.net cpugod.synchro.net pb.darktech.org:24 fido.bier028.nl:60177 bbs.cortex-media.info **EDIT:** Crunching with Perl which has found some more systems - including both missing ones listed here. This second go around finds 139 Fidonet systems in total. Please note this is: * All zones * But only systems with an Internet hostname (no dialup) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ScootyPuff-Sr · 2015-10-27 04:07 There are 61 phone numbers listed in the North American zone. Of those, four of the entries don't actually fit the NPA-NXX-xxxx dialing format, so maybe they're typos. For the remaining 57, maybe I'll call them this weekend to see how many answer. Not many guys can say they dialed every BBS in North America in one day... There is one notable entry, 1:393/69, The Positronium BBS in Lafayette, LA specifies it is a "POTS only BBS!" It is, however, immediately adjacent to 1:393/68, The Positronium Repository, which is the second telnet system on your list (cmech.dynip.com). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paco_Smithereens · 2015-10-27 06:55 I look forward to seeing the results. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- erazmus · 2015-10-27 13:58 Strangely my system is missing from your inventory - theparityerror.com at 1:153/250. I'm not sure when you did your survey, but I know it was down for a short period last week due to my ISP changing my IP address. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paco_Smithereens · 2015-10-27 17:14 When I get back from work, I may be able to tell you why I missed it. I'm curious myself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AbominableNachos · 2015-10-27 17:58 > For the remaining 57, maybe I'll call them this weekend to see how many answer. Not many guys can say they dialed every BBS in North America in one day... You must do this. For the sake of good data, and glory of greybeards everywhere. Oh man. I wonder if I can find my old Bluewave sigs... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nolageek · 2015-10-27 19:58 > Not many guys can say they dialed every BBS in North America in one day... Well, there's a lot more that aren't in fidonet. (Like mine! hehe) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- f15sim · 2015-10-27 20:33 Zone 2 claims to have over 1000 systems, but considering the douchebaggery they're known for (see the FN_SYSOP and FIDONEWS echos for examples), that could be pure hooey. Have you talked to the Z1C yet? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ScootyPuff-Sr · 2015-10-27 21:53 > You must do this. For the sake of good data, and glory of greybeards everywhere. My beard is NOT gray. It may have a little more salt in it than one would expect for a guy in his mid 30's, but it is not gray. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paco_Smithereens · 2015-10-28 03:18 Sent her a mail but didn't get a reply. It's funny; when you mentioned her, I'd already sent her a mail with some questions and waited to hear back before responding to your suggestion. I was nice in it, but I wouldn't be surprised if she saw a bunch of questions pointing to a sort of deteriorated Fidonet and said, "I'm gonna give this one a miss." As for Zone 2, I've heard rumors about them. Unless they're all on dialup (or I screwed up), I can confirm they've got maybe two dozen systems up. My whole point in doing this was just curiosity; there was a time when Fidonet was *the* BBS network -- the first thing to alleviate, for many of us, the annoyance of long distance charges and made the world a lot smaller. I remember encountering it for the first time and feeling...disbelief: the same sort of "this can't be real" disbelief I'd later feel when I got my first shell account in college and experienced the Internet. For this reason I still feel some affection for it. And a part of me senses this should still be the *main* BBS messaging and mail network, like if you were going to preserve just one. (Not that I've done *shit*, mind you.) It's been a few days but I've also seen some nasty behavior and attitudes on various BBS networks. I would have hoped by now we'd be too old for that shit, but there it is. In any case, yeah I contacted her (found her via that alternate Fidonet news she puts out, the gazzette or whatever). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paco_Smithereens · 2015-10-28 03:24 Arrr! Dial fer the glory of all the Blackbeards out there, mateys! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- flyingmonkey80 · 2015-10-28 16:41 Yeah, mine was missed as well, bbs.planettelex.org. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- f15sim · 2015-10-28 19:38 Just recently a Z2er was crowing about the 1000+ listed nodes they had....It's interesting (but not surprising) to see their list of active systems are close to Zone 1's. The Fido Gazette came to be because Bjorn Felten(Z2) refused to step down as the Fidonews editor. I'm not familiar with the issues at hand, but it's been going on since at least 2007. There's a Z1/Z2 schism going on that's simultaneously epic and tragic. Unfortunately, there's no concrete method of punishing the people causing the problems because it IS across zones. The primary shit- stirrer that I've seen has been Bjorn, with some guy named Lee Lafaso running a close 2nd. With a few exceptions, Fidonet really IS Fight- o-Net and that's really sad. I'm surprised Janet hasn't replied to you. If you like, PM me your email address and I'll try to get her attention. I'm one of the few holdouts - 1:138/142. I've held the same node # since around 1986. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paco_Smithereens · 2015-10-28 21:28 I am reading the FIDONEWS echo right now on filegate.net My interest in Fidonet, where it is, and where it's going, is declining with every message I read. Of course, to be fair, my interest in participating in any Internet forum *in any capacity* is declining. I remember when I first started dialing out to boards in 1984, just how much I enjoyed having conversations with people. Reading, posting. Terms had that autodial feature which would go through your whole address book until it found a board without a busy signal and connected. And with any luck there was enough activity on whatever board you connected to that by the time you were done, some other board's line had opened up and you could read what was new there. I could blow a whole afternoon doing that. Increasingly, I've noticed this annoying pattern where I select a thread to read here on reddit and I know the entire 500 comment exchange, like I could recite it. Make puppets of each faction (I'm a "gun nut," so I am an expert on being a bumper sticker for my own cause; I'm not proud and I can only be so critical of the opposition as a result), and just have the conversation myself. Would I miss out on anything doing that? I don't think so. It feels sometimes like everything's been said and we're all just repeating ourselves. Even the basic tactics of the debate are the same: I post a stat, then someone attacks the source I'm posting it from. If I were to follow reddit's direction *no news source or stat is to be trusted* and also I'm supposed to not go to *any site at all* because it will give them ad revenue. I just wish sometimes I could know whether it is a fact that everything in every conversation has been said before, or whether or not there is, somewhere -- somewhere obscure -- a shining message forum in which every comment is witty, every commenter restrained, good humor and respect is maintained, and where the *worst in me* isn't pulled out by the *worst in someone else.* I'm the first to preach about how unbelievably shitty people can be to each other on the Internet, but holy crap, if I look at my posting history sometimes.... It never *starts* with me, but that's not really an excuse. For all I know, I'm just *done.* This year is 31 years online. Maybe there's just nothing left to be said. Certainly, looking at some of these echoes - the ones that still have posts - it's become clear that this may be the case, at least as far as Fidonet is concerned. There seem to be more sysops than users. I don't mind if J. Kracht doesn't reply. Who cares, really. [This is a fun site](http://fidonet.ro/). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paco_Smithereens · 2015-10-28 21:49 OK so in my second go I crunch the nodelist in Perl with a lot finer logic; it picked your system up, resolved, and completed a telnet connection automatically -- so the failure was mine on the first try; got you on the second. In case anyone is left reading this thread, the new list finds 139 systems total, rather than 104 on the first go. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paco_Smithereens · 2015-10-28 21:49 (Copying from the comment to erazmus and theparityerror.com which was missed on my first go): > OK so in my second go I crunch the nodelist in Perl with a lot finer logic; it picked your system up, resolved, and completed a telnet connection automatically -- so the failure was mine on the first try; got you on the second. > > > > In case anyone is left reading this thread, the new list finds 139 systems total, rather than 104 on the first go. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- erazmus · 2015-10-29 04:24 Thanks for double checking. The numbers are still sad :( ---------------------------------------------------------------------- f15sim · 2015-10-29 19:52 I think for the most part, any communication medium can turn into a complete shit-show if there's no accountability. With FidoNet, there's no practical mechanism to discipline a sysop that's gotten out of hand - especially if you're trying to do it across a Zone boundary. I'd not seen the fidonet.ro site before, it IS a fun place. Frankly, I think what's left of FidoNet would be better off if all traffic from Z2 was routed to the round file. Many years ago I grabbed the sources for Fido when Tom had them available online. One of these days I'll get around to porting them so they'll run on a Raspberry Pi.... The tech is still mildly interesting even if the echos themselves have more in common with your typical cesspool.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ScootyPuff-Sr · 2015-10-31 02:07 The new nodelist out today seems to have a few more phone numbers (65), too, or maybe I did a better job of filtering (I'm importing the nodelist to a Libreoffice spreadsheet and using various sorts and filters to produce a list of dialups). I figured out what those 'typo' North American numbers were... they're IP addresses! Took me long enough. Tomorrow I am doing my great dialout. I'd start tonight, but I'm trying to be courteous in case some of these boards are shut down and their numbers recycled to somebody's voice line... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2015-11-07 22:33 Interesting that my system at bbs.thenexusbbs.com doesn't show. I am at 1:342/15 and use Synchro as a reader through a Telnet gateway from my Worldgroup system and BINKLY for the feed and have been online for at least 4 months on Fido. I think my upstream system as well, doesn't show on your list either. Hmm. I don't understand or know Fido very well so any clarify why were missing?