[deleted by user] reddit / BSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2021-09-14 02:58 [removed] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jurimasa · 2021-09-14 03:11 You might want to check out [HelloSystem](https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- luciferreeves · 2021-09-14 03:15 I actually did. It looks too macOS-like. (Not blaming though, because I know they were going for it). Anyways, I am talking about something more beautiful with modern day transparency and blur effects and lot more things. (Again, lot of things - I don't know how much the community will be helpful and how much I can achieve). Thanks for the comment though! 😊 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MrRichBOB · 2021-09-14 03:52 # Criticism (Remember, Criticism doesn't mean _insult/tear-down_) 1. I think this post is well-within what this sub is about. 2. What it sounds like you are describing is making a _BSD-distro_, as there are already several BSD OS's: 1. _FreeBSD_, 2. _OpenBSD_, 3. _DragonFly BSD_, 4. _NetBSD_, and I am probably forgetting one 3. **I.** As good of an idea as it is to make another distro besides NomadBSD (of FreeBSD), and GhostBSD (of FreeBSD), and TrueNAS (of FreeBSD), and Hello System (of FreeBSD), whatever else that is a down- stream fork of FreeBSD--and you totally should--you are going to have the same issue: thousands, of thousands of distros. **II.** To piggy-back more, rather than saying, "GhostBSD is ugly I should start-over from the ground up," remember that 6 of the most common Linux distros are literally because "the original was ugly", why not say, "GhostBSD is ugly, I am gonna contact the maintainers and ask them if there is anyway we can offer more variety out of the box for the end user." **III.** Look at Linux Mint and Pop!\_OS and Ubuntu, three of the best and most important modern Linux distributions. Debian is like a BSD-- it is an amazing, stable base with MASSIVE development, but is clunky and hard to use. Ubuntu says, "Imma make Debian easy to use and try and make something that looks different than everything else, yet familiar, is stylish." Linux Mint says, "Ubuntu made some questionable decisions and we don't like GNOME3, let's fork GNOME2, make what we think GNOME3 should have been, and also curate Ubuntu's packages and make sure they are as stable and secure as possible. And then Pop!_OS says, "we want to use Ubuntu--the most popular Linux distro, but rice it for gaming and code development as good as possible to pre-install on our machines and fix what people don't like about Ubuntu." Those three are all _actual_ distros with _actual_ purposes and there are reasons you want to use them. You might lose something if you don't use them. By contrast, look at Ubuntu's flavours--most of them are just different desktop environments, and one of them is made for AV work and also graphic design. But the only difference between them and Ubuntu is... like three commands on the commandline. **IV.** The BSD's really don't have anything visually flashy because the crowd that surrounds them like doing things themselves. Not everyone wants that, though. Some people want the stability and licensing without all the extra work--you have an avenue. But you might want to look at a pre-existing distro and see if you can help, even if it is just writing a setup script to, say, give Qtile or something like that, out of the box. In so doing, you can further encourage pre-existing development projects, make them better, and eliminate too many distros. # Tangeant Linux is not an operating system--Alpine Linux is, but it is also a Linux distro. _GNU_ is the operating system, technically, it is just using the Linux Kernel. The only thing that is not part of the official GNU project is the Kernel--Linux. And the Linux dev team, headed by Torvalds, only deals with the kernel. It is everyone else's responsibility to integrate the kernel into their OS as they see fit. Alpine is based on BusyBox (known as _ToyBox_ on BSD's), and to that end, you could basically say that _BusyBox_ is the operating system. Basically, this means that a _distro_ is someone curating other people's code. And an _OS_ is someone curating their own code. The afforementioned BSD OS's are all 100% their own code. They have nothing to do with each other. They make a base, fully-functional operating system, and you get to do whatever you want with that... like make a distro. One of the best distros, IMHO, is TrueNAS, a distro of FreeBSD. IDK how well you could argue that Playstation OS is a distro of FreeBSD. Also, while yes there are thousands of distros, most of them are literally just ricing of actual distros. The only _real_ distros in Linux are: + Cloud Distros: - Azure (not the actual name) - AWS (not the actual name) + SUSE - OpenSUSE is a community fork + RHEL - Rocky Linux is the community fork I use in its place, - Alma is another, but they are literally just a different name, basically - XCP-ng -- a drop-in replacement for ESXi + Fedora -- RHEL's testing-branch, basically + Arch - Manjaro -- a dumpster fire that no one should use - Black Arch -- Arch but for pen-testing - StarLabs -- just a rice of Arch - Garuda -- the New Manjaro and it also replaces Black Arch - Artix -- for people who hate Soystemd + Debian - Ubuntu -- to push Linux forward to the masses * Mint -- better than Ubuntu, and a drop-in replacement of Windows,-ish * Pop!\_OS -- gaming - Raspbian -- the only Linux that actually works on Raspberry Pis - Linux Mint Debian Edition -- F\*\*\* you, Ubuntu - Devuan -- For Soystemd haters - Kali Linux -- Pentesting and cybersecurity + Gentoo -- Embedded systems and fun + Void -- a lot of people call it "the BSD of Linux", but the devs don't understand why + Slackware -- S- ...Slackware, IDK + Alpine -- Embedded systems and free of GNU code That is not a lot. And all of these have actual reasons why you would want to use them. If you want a different look of anyone of those, most of them have "flavours" (sub-distros) that install different desktop environments by default with ricing to match. That is not a lot. Basically... + if you just do office work, use Linux Mint. + If you want to game, use Pop!\_OS. + If you want to game but are kinda technical, use Garuda Linux. + If you want to pentest, then use Kali. + If you want to pentest but need better tools, use Black Arch or Garuda's black arch flavour. + If you want a fun hobby project, use Gentoo or Linux From Scratch + If you are working with embedded systems, use Gentoo or Alpine + If you hate GNU, use Alpine + If you want bleeding edge and a system that just works, use Arch + If you work in a business, use Fedora or Ubuntu/Linux Mint or OpenSUSE Tumbleweed + If you like Slakckware, use Slackware My point is, "too many distros" is an illusion and is not a good reason to not use BSD. And also is the WRONG mindset for BSD. Why should you use BSD: + Quality, mature code -- the BSD's have been around a while. And they don't have the same pressure as Linux does, they aren't concerned with trend-chasing; there is so much junk that Torvalds wants to fix in the kernel, but he simply can't because it will break thousands of distros. + Licensing -- all the BSD's, so far as I know, you can use their code in anyway you want to with no obligation to give back + A direct lineage to UNIX. As Torvalds said, he wasn't a UNIX engineer--he didn't know how UNIX worked, and he would have implemented more UNIX-y things had he had people help him do it who knew how UNIX was supposed to work. He loved MINIX, but hated DOS and did the best he could, but BSD's are made by people who attempt to understand UNIX, if not that they do. - To quote Deraadt, "Linux devs do what they do because they hate Windows. OpenBSD devs do what they do because they love UNIX." + Documentation -- BSD's (in general) have good documentation + No GNU extensions (in many cases) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- luciferreeves · 2021-09-14 04:14 Man, fuck criticism - I am just grateful that you took time to write this much. ***(\* god level respect... bows down with a puppy face \* 🥺 )*** Okay, coming to your points now — I completely agree with what you said and I understand your points (I already knew the Linux is not an OS and most of the info in your post but I'm just flabbergasted now 😅) — I really wanted to give something polished for beginners to the BSD community - I know BSDs will never be "just another linux distro" and I am glad it is this way. ​ >The BSD's really don't have anything visually flashy because the crowd that surrounds them like doing things themselves. Not everyone wants that, though. Some people want the stability and licensing without all the extra work. \- I know this but I somehow got this idea that if I do this project, it might fill a void which is there (or solve a problem which never existed, who knows? 🤷🏻‍♂️)... I am perfectly fine with collaborating over other pre-built projects but I am afraid that my ideas of a clean, sleek, modern looking OS with modern interfaces would be consumed away. So here are my answers: ***Do I want to do something of my own?*** — Yeah very much so.***Can I collaborate over pre-built projects?*** — Of, course.***Should I create something what I've discussed?*** — You tell me! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MrRichBOB · 2021-09-14 04:39 I think if you want to do it, go for it. I would just try and be mindful of keeping it inline with the UNIX philosophy rather than how things are on Linux. Like... try to avoid Systemd or dbus. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- luciferreeves · 2021-09-14 04:42 I will keep those in mind. Feel free to drop by any more pointers 😁 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2021-09-14 05:09 how about not building an operating system but an installer? > something more beautiful with modern day transparency and blur effects and lot more things. I don't know who need this, but may you can make a freebsd installer with some buttons to set up gnome or kde. I don't think you need a new operating system to build to have transparency and blur effects. Or you want to create a new desktop environment? Still no need a new OS. Build a new OS for new OS features, not for eye-candy. I am not the community of BSD, nor anyone to decide, but I think you won't get much community support to build a new OS for making it pretty. I would say, try to join for another Freebsd fork, and work on their installer to be more beginner friendly, or make the environments' default configs more pretty if you want to. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- luciferreeves · 2021-09-14 05:14 That’s actually a really good idea. I’ll consider that for sure. 😁 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2021-09-14 07:06 What's wrong with Manjaro though ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iorini · 2021-09-14 07:14 The BSDs won't benefit from Linux-like fragmentation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- luciferreeves · 2021-09-14 07:15 True 💯 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reddit_original · 2021-09-14 08:13 You want to build an operating system based on an operating system? That statement makes no sense. BSD is an operating system already. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vladimir_Chrootin · 2021-09-14 09:47 > Remember, Criticism doesn't mean insult/tear-down   >Soystemd Pick one. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- konkinsdeciple · 2021-09-14 12:15 Relax Lennart, I imagine this is sarcastic, as the artix/devuan crown throws this word around quite often. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 4z01235 · 2021-09-14 12:20 Their package withholding/delay policy, for one. It's useless at best but also creates unnecessary AUR package breakages at times. They have also done and said some stupid things after their website SSL cert expired and told users some horrible workaround rather than just fixing their crap. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dancorbe · 2021-09-14 12:28 Devuan aren't exactly pillars of the community. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sparc64_ · 2021-09-14 12:28 > Slackware -- S- ...Slackware, IDK \- slackware devs, probably ---------------------------------------------------------------------- konkinsdeciple · 2021-09-14 12:30 Never said they were, he just used one simple word to describe the premise of the entire distro ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2021-09-14 12:34 that's far from a dumpster fire mate. That term implies its perfectly useless or even actively harmful. What you described is just some questionable design choices, and poor handling of one incident. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vladimir_Chrootin · 2021-09-14 12:36 Devuan are actually serious when they say this, though. I haven't looked into it that deeply, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them actually believe the "soy" conspiracy theory, the lamest, most fragile-masculinity friendly conspiracy theory ever. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- konkinsdeciple · 2021-09-14 12:38 Yeah, agreed I believe the term was coined by Luke smith, who is a dumbass, but this way, in a BSD thread, it was obviously used to mock them ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dancorbe · 2021-09-14 12:41 it's okay to have strong opinions about software but let's stick to debating technical merits rather than resorting to childish language. Save your clever memes for Fortnite instead. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- konkinsdeciple · 2021-09-14 12:42 What's Fortnite? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wikipedia_answer_bot · 2021-09-14 12:42 **Fortnite is an online video game developed by Epic Games and released in 2017. It is available in three distinct game mode versions that otherwise share the same general gameplay and game engine: Fortnite: Save the World, a cooperative hybrid-tower defense-shooter- survival game for up to four players to fight off zombie-like creatures and defend objects with traps and fortifications they can build; Fortnite Battle Royale, a free-to-play battle royale game in which up to 100 players fight to be the last person standing; and Fortnite Creative, in which players are given complete freedom to create worlds and battle arenas.** More details here: *This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!* [^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/oz ztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- konkinsdeciple · 2021-09-14 12:43 Oh thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 4z01235 · 2021-09-14 13:16 Cool. I never used the term "dumpster fire", take it up with that guy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marmulak · 2021-09-14 13:16 How do you think BSD got started? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- luciferreeves · 2021-09-14 13:37 Owhhh… you sweet little moron! 🥰 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reddit_original · 2021-09-14 14:59 BSD was always an operating system and nothing else. It was derived from ATT Unix. What did you think it was? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marmulak · 2021-09-14 15:26 BSD is an operating system based on an operating system (AT&T Unix), as you said. Although you are somewhat incorrect, as BSD was not "always" an operating system, but began as a software distribution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- reddit_original · 2021-09-14 17:03 You have now shown that you are a thoroughly clueless individual and I'm not going to waste anymore time with you (and I did not say what you think I said). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marmulak · 2021-09-14 17:33 no u ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MistaPitts · 2021-09-14 17:49 > Manjaro -- a dumpster fire that no one should use Care to elaborate? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MrRichBOB · 2021-09-14 17:59 There are a few issues, but most of them are due to Pamac—Manjaro uses two packagemanagers with the same name, because f\*\*\* stability and f\*\*\* dyselxics. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MistaPitts · 2021-09-14 18:03 True. I've been running Manjaro for almost two years now and my main pain point has been pamac (and Evolution, but that's not Manjaro's fault). About a year ago pamac got so discombobulated that I had to reinstall it. Now it's working fine but a recent update made the UI look like a mobile app. Not ideal. Not convinced it would be worth the effort to switch to Fedora though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- laffer1 · 2021-09-15 02:07 Have you considered working with one of the existing projects instead to improve it? I know I could certainly use help on MidnightBSD for instance ---------------------------------------------------------------------- luciferreeves · 2021-09-15 02:14 Yeah I thought about it. It’s hard to find a project which has the same principles as mine. I very much care about a polished UI/UX - most projects don’t. I want to have a hybrid/micro kernel instead of a monolithic kernel - most projects don’t. So, I think I am going to build this with the help of the Open Source Club at my university. Sorry for not helping you out at the moment man! I will try to contribute to your project if I get time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2021-09-15 02:25 Instead of a fork, how about an Ansible playbook to configure a stock BSD of your choice with the packages and configs you want? I think this would be much easier to maintain and would not fragment development efforts. Speaking for myself, I'm not interested in running a fork of a BSD but I wouldn't mind a well thought out Ansible playbook, and it's easier to modify to my liking. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cam64 · 2021-09-15 08:32 Are your only goals to make it look like macOS? If that’s the case then all you need is FreeBSD and pkg install some desktop environment. Because you really have not talked about anything else other than making the UI all nice and fancy. The people over at r/unixporn have reached your goal already, all through just editing config files. It comes off as very arrogant when you drum up your new operating system as “modern” and “sleek” when you have done literally zero work on your part. Also mate it’s hard to take you seriously when you preach “free and open source software!” and a “modern and sleek os!” all while putting pop up ads on your shitty website and using proboards, with the default colors and theme intact, as your forum software. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- probonopd · 2021-09-18 12:16 Check out [Install FreeBSD](https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/user/co mponents/utilities/install) ![](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2480569/93003377- 7d77c480-f53e-11ea-9e2d-aed1b41a17df.png) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- probonopd · 2021-09-18 12:17 helloSystem is always looking for skilled graphics designers who have more on their sleeves than "flat design". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2021-09-23 02:10 WOW, my mistake. But still, if you want to be newbie friendly, I think it's a better way to make a newbie friendly installer for an existing OS with no more question than: what is your language, name, password. All other scripted (maybe ask about storage if you have more than one, but just to select which to erase and use) instead of creating another OS to be user friendly. I know, it's may seems not flexible enough for you, but for those who don't know what is a partition, BUT still want to use a computer, it's may would be fine enough. I do understand it is not a goal of FreeBSD, but seems still more reasonable compare to make a new OS as the OP said, with the goal to be more user friendly. It's not the OS which may user friendly or not. Or in that case, any BSD is already more user friendly compare to macOS since the manuals are useful and the utilities are up-to-date not like on mac, but people still think macOS more user friendly because of the UI not the OS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- l31la · 2021-09-28 03:05 lets see all the shit wrong with this post: - uses emoji - baits people into a looking for devs post - doesn't explain properly what they're trying to do (is this a fork of bsd? a distro of *BSD?) - google search link instead of providing a proper source (like wikipedia or an official website) - promotes bsd fragementation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- edthesmokebeard · 2021-10-01 01:33 Something about an xkcd strip about standards...