How do I emulate a Sun 3/E Computer with 501-8027 Coaxial & SCSI ethernet board? reddit / BSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-12 11:45 Hi Guys, My company is looking to replace some aging Sun 3/E systems as the Coaxial & SCSI Ethernet Boards are failing and spares are hard to come by or none existent. So now I'm looking at the community of UNIX & Linux Hackers around to help out. Would like to replace the system with new hardware running BSD or Linux, but thinking about how we could interface the legacy ports and connectors. UPDATE : I'm so happy with all the positive feedback on here, The Device all these machines are connected to is a Flight Safety B737-300 Flight Simulator. Most if not all of the cockpit parts are from a real aircraft, so most of these lagacy ports are there to adapt it to the tech of the time (Some of which are from 1988). I will checkout whatever you awesome guys have sent me thus far. As we see it, this machine has another year or so if the parts hold up. The manufacturer wants an insane amount of money to update the whole system to just 2 racks with 2-3 modern machines (Mostly running Linux now), we're trying to find a solution that enables us to run **Video Tour :** [https://youtu.be/GtmpFWxo\_aA](https://youtu.be/GtmpFWxo_aA) Flight Simulator : This is the Flight Safety (Manufacturer) B737-300 Flight Simulator manufactured in 1991. We use for Flight Training, many airlines from the Asian and African sector still operate these Aircrafts. [https://ibb.co/mvtYSmc](https://ibb.co/mvtYSmc) [https://ibb.co/4t9zHRh](https://ibb.co/4t9zHRh) [https://ibb.co/mBXv4Rs](https://ibb.co/mBXv4Rs) Host Sun 0 Machine : This has the main OS on it with whatever applications are needed to run the IOS Software (Instructor Operating Station) Host\_1 : [https://ibb.co/tL5KMhj](https://ibb.co/tL5KMhj) Sun Micro 501-8027 3/E Ethernet/SCSI Card aka the Ethernet Board that has failed : [https://ibb.co/NZh58ZP](https://ibb.co/NZh58ZP) [https://ibb.co/48sVJYV](https://ibb.co/48sVJYV) [https://ibb.co/0yJwwwJ](https://ibb.co/0yJwwwJ) [https://ibb.co/stdWJ8g](https://ibb.co/stdWJ8g) [https://ibb.co/jLKBqpK](https://ibb.co/jLKBqpK) Client Sun Machine : The images below are for a client machine of sorts, It connects to a Host machine (also Solaris Based using the Sun 3/E and Motorola Chassis) and gets an IP Address of sorts to link the two machines using the 501-8027 Cards. It is connected to 2 Touchscreens which allow the Flight Instructor to control various parameters of the simulation (Weather, Aircraft Failures etc) Client\_1 :[https://ibb.co/chythzG](https://ibb.co/chythzG) Client\_2 : [https://ibb.co/NyW3xjq](https://ibb.co/NyW3xjq) Client\_3 : [https://ibb.co/4dwV673](https://ibb.co/4dwV673) Concurrent Machine running OS/32 for Boeing Logic : [https://ibb.co/Vvg2v58](https://ibb.co/Vvg2v58) [https://ibb.co/8svsVSs](https://ibb.co/8svsVSs) [https://ibb.co/GcnFn90](https://ibb.co/GcnFn90) [https://ibb.co/W2v5F6R](https://ibb.co/W2v5F6R) [https://ibb.co/S0MD7Sj](https://ibb.co/S0MD7Sj) [https://ibb.co/LRYVgn9](https://ibb.co/LRYVgn9) [https://ibb.co/qdBqSkN](https://ibb.co/qdBqSkN) [https://ibb.co/j5Yj3xs](https://ibb.co/j5Yj3xs) [https://ibb.co/r5zKSW6](https://ibb.co/r5zKSW6) [https://ibb.co/ccWpTSC](https://ibb.co/ccWpTSC) [https://ibb.co/bJN7jJg](https://ibb.co/bJN7jJg) [https://ibb.co/j5X1mDq](https://ibb.co/j5X1mDq) [https://ibb.co/KNYMjM6](https://ibb.co/KNYMjM6) [https://ibb.co/dLN6Jjf](https://ibb.co/dLN6Jjf) Terminal : [https://ibb.co/jyzGwGB](https://ibb.co/jyzGwGB) [https://ibb.co/8BBcBSc](https://ibb.co/8BBcBSc) MVME Rack : This seems to handle most of the Boeing Logic as well, on the Ground floor there is a rack with 15 of these Motorola MVME 133XT Cards controlling various parameters of the Hydraulic Motion System, Control Loading etc. [https://ibb.co/d6DDNZg](https://ibb.co/d6DDNZg) [https://ibb.co/zbWDHXs](https://ibb.co/zbWDHXs) [https://ibb.co/cJhJR2D](https://ibb.co/cJhJR2D) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nguyenhm16 · 2020-08-12 13:08 I’m assuming this machine connects to/controls some sort of old hardware connected via coax Ethernet, in which case I would run a Sun 3 emulator on modern hardware, and find old switches on eBay with both 10base2 and 10baseT connectors and go from there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hartz303 · 2020-08-12 13:50 Guessing from the photos, it looks like there is more going on there than just Ethernet connectivity and SCSI... is there a digital acquisition card (slot 3) in there a well? Is there a Concurrent Technologies processing board? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PitifulView · 2020-08-12 14:42 For a sun3 emulator I would try out ["the machine emulator" (tme)](https://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/), it's what netbsd folks that don't own sun3 hw use for testing sun3 stuff. I'd start with the [one in pkgsrc](https://github.com/NetBSD/pkgsrc/tree/trunk/emulators/tme) rather than a standalone build since it seems to have a lot of patches for some reason. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrpippy · 2020-08-12 15:40 Wow, is this running a flight sim? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cmh · 2020-08-12 23:59 When this hardware is decommissioned I hope it’ll find a good home! (Feel free to PM me…) So far as I know, TME (The Machine Emulator) supports Sun-3 but doesn’t specifically include the Sun-3/e VME hardware. It doesn’t seem like it’d be that difficult to adapt however, since I believe all the specs of the hardware are known and (other than the Sun MMU, which TME already supports) there’s nothing in the 3/e that isn’t off the shelf. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cmh · 2020-08-13 00:01 Also, if the SCSI/Ethernet boards are failing, be sure to check whether they just need new fuses or capacitors. Both Ethernet and SCSI will have a fuse, and Ethernet will have capacitors in its analog section. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cmh · 2020-08-13 00:04 That looks like Sun-3/e color video, I’d guess there are a pair of 3/e in that rack with one 19-21in color display each. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cmh · 2020-08-13 00:08 Yeah, definitely a 501-8029 color frame buffer. https://www.sun3arc.org/FAQ/sun.hardware.FAQ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-13 03:24 Yes there is, running OS/32 ... Also a pain to find parts for... when I get to the office today, I'll update the post with more image links of what we're using this for. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-13 03:29 Well, the visuals system has been upgraded by RSI. The old hardware is just for Aircraft Logic. The Simulator is a Flight Safety 737-300 manufactured in 1991. I'll update the post with more images when I get to the office. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-13 05:31 I've updated the Post with more images. You're right, it's a client system that connects to another Sun Based Motorola Chassis system to get a IP address to link the machines for the IOS Software (Instructor Operating Station) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-13 05:33 That's correct there is a concurrent machine running OS/32, I've updated the Post with more images. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-13 05:59 Not just that one system, over 8 racks of computers and I/O Boards from various companies. Probably can replace them with a couple racks with 2-3 Computers each, now adays. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-13 11:21 We've tried what we could in regards to the boards/cards. But I guess most it is beyond our understanding. Do check out the video tour I posted in the update, it will give alot more insight into the madness we're dealing with. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- stdevel · 2020-08-13 12:35 Can you name a Sun 3 emulator? I found none (beside the alpha TME) so far. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nguyenhm16 · 2020-08-13 13:15 There is TME mentioned in another comment, it seems to be what the NetBSD developers use in lieu of actual Sun3 hardware. No experience with it, and no idea if you can actually boot SunOS 4 on it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrpippy · 2020-08-13 17:36 Wow, this is amazing. I think your only hope for emulation would be to emulate the client Sun machine, since it looks like its only I/O is to a keyboard, the coax Ethernet, serial (maybe for the touchscreen and other buttons?), and the frame buffer/monitor. (What does the client machine boot from though? Ethernet?) I think tme supports all of those. This is still a huge project though, with a lot of unknowns. It's not as much "fun", but probably a better plan is to stock up on the Ethernet/SCSI boards and maybe try to fix the broken ones. There's a couple on eBay now for pretty cheap: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sun- Micro-501-8027-3-E-Ethernet-SCSI-Card-/121630549122 I would also send a mail to the SunHELP mailing list (http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/sunhelp), they would probably love to see this and someone might know where to find more of the Ethernet/SCSI VME cards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-13 19:47 In regards to the ebay link, we purchased a board from that seller, it didn't work and he ended up refunding everything, but the board is still with us. (Funny story, the board box had a shipping sticker from 1992 on it that said from "Flight Safety" (The manufacturer) it was crazy touching a box that's older than me) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-13 19:49 I believe it does boot over ethernet as the boot prompt halts just after the EEPROM check, as it fails to capture an IP Address. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrpippy · 2020-08-13 20:29 Interesting, I wonder if the problem is something other than the card itself. Like the Ethernet cabling, or the VME backplane. For troubleshooting it would be interesting to swap the known-good card with the bad one, or swap in the newly-bought one for the known-good one. I can understand why you might not want to do this though, if anything goes wrong or fries. When you replaced it, I assume you set all the [DIP switches and jumpers](https://gts.org/fehbk/docs/wcd00022/wcd02270.htm) on the card to match the old one? Also, that lower Ethernet connector on the card is an [AUI](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_Unit_Interface) port, it can be converted to regular RJ-45 with a cheap transceiver. Just search "aui transceiver" on eBay, back in the 90s it was normal to need one to connect a Sun or SGI to a 10BaseT RJ45 Ethernet network. I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble, but assuming it's just the Sun machines connected to that coax Ethernet, you could replace it with regular Cat5/RJ-45 and a switch/hub. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-14 03:41 Yep matched all switches exactly the same, It's the card for sure, as putting another card in the same slot using the same cabling, it fires right up no issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrpippy · 2020-08-14 06:49 Man, how weird. Assuming it's new/unused, I wonder what would cause it to fail. Even though one was bad, if I was in your position I might just buy the whole lot and hope that at least one works. $30 each is a bargain for something so rare. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-14 07:30 It was used and on a second glance we noticed, repairs as well... there were green wires and look like they replace traces that were broken on the board. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mrpippy · 2020-08-14 21:16 Yeah I see those rework wires in the pictures, those have probably been there since the board was manufactured. For lower-volume (and less-dense/easier-to-work-on) boards like these, it was common to just do manual rework rather than correct the board design. I have an Mac from the late 80s and the logic board has a wire like that on it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jon4short · 2020-08-15 16:29 No manual rework on the other boards we have. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cacatl · 2020-08-16 02:31 I have used TME many years ago. It was quite stable and I have booted SunOS 4.1.4 and was successfully able to run SunView and OpenWindows. I believe Solaris 2.x can also run SunOS applications, which can be emulated by qemu-system-sparc, as well as some later versions of Solaris. Although in my experience TME was much more stable than running Solaris than QEMU's SPARC emulator. As for Ethernet, I haven't much, if any, experience on TME. I remember it being quite a hassle. And only working using some obscure BSD-specific protocol which wouldn't work on Linux. Only NetBSD was mentioned in the tutorials I saw, but it could work on the other variants. Best of luck to the author of this post. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fossfirefighter · 2020-08-19 06:56 So I'm coming slightly late to this thread, and I'll leave a message on YouTube about this. The first step, bar none, is to dump all the disks on that and ensure you have good backups. Preserving the data is probably the most important step because without that, if something goes wrong, you're basically FUBARed. If it's truly coax (10BASE2) Ethernet, it is possible to use an AUI adapter or tap to convert it to modern-ish Ethernet without too much issue. That should handle passthrough to an emulator somewhat easier. That being said, there were other network technologies that could use coax, so I dont' want to say that's 100% possible without knowing for sure. Now, depending on how much source code you have, recompiling and replacements components one by one to Linux is probably the easiest way. I'm not sure what devices you have connected via SCSI; TME does however support Ethernet, so with the right adapters, and bridges, it \*should\* be possible to replace Host\_0 with a VM running on x86. Likely you'll have to dump the disks through either a second system, or another mechanism like over a serial port (I have done this). With the cards failing, it's likely failed caps either in the host chassis on the card itself, testing components with a multimeter can provide hints and might be able to resurrect one. I can't tell from the pictures enough about the flatscreen display; if it's using something like OPENVIEW or X from this era, but this would probably be best done as a piecemeal upgrade. Where are you based in real life? I 'd actually be interested in discussing this further, but I'm not sure it's something super conductive to remote work. Drop me a line at [mcasadevall@ubuntu.com](mailto:mcasadevall@ubuntu.com) or poke me on Discord [https://discord.gg/V8esNah](https://discord.gg/V8esNah) \- this is my personal server). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TradersGame · 2022-06-03 19:34 Do you still have the MVME racks or parts or did you scrap? I am looking for some spare MVME133XT cards.