From Ubuntu to BSD on a Laptop (is BSD right for me?) reddit / BSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KingsCrossBerlin97 · 2019-04-07 20:45 Hey Guys, ​ I'm currently running Ubuntu since the last few weeks and I love it so far. I have a few issues with Canonical therefore considering to either go with manjaro (rolling updates & stable) or even making the switch to BSD. What I love about Linux is that everything works right out the Box (even my Wacom digitizer) also the security. I frequently visit hostile websites (tries to exploit Js/install keyloggers) when sandboxed they can't access the rest of my system (which is used for sensitive operations). Furthermore, when sandboxed I can use potentially infected windows software without affecting the rest of my system (my wine apps don't need to access the rest of the system). Now I'm wondering if it makes sense to switch from Linux to BSD (I guess TrueOS since it's the most noob friendly). I heard that BSD has significantly worse HW support than Linux, therefore, I don't know if switching (as a regular end-user) is worth it. ​ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DonovanNagel · 2019-04-07 21:17 I believe Wacom works fine in FreeBSD (but haven't tried it myself). You'll love jails. I'd stay away from TrueOS personally. Yes, it has a graphical installer but that's about as far as its usefulness goes. It installs a tonne of bloat with Lumina desktop (not a nice UI), on FreeBSD- CURRENT (unstable). You're better off installing plain FreeBSD. It's incredibly easy to set up provided your hardware is supported. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rhabarba · 2019-04-07 21:48 Going away from shitstemd is always a good idea. > BSD has significantly worse HW support than Linux BSD runs on an iPhone, Linux does not. So does BSD have *worse* HW support or just a *different* HW support? I'd vote for the latter. TrueOS is relatively annoying. I, personally, suggest to try GhostBSD first. It's true that FreeBSD has the widest hardware support of the free BSDs, so trying OpenBSD would probably not fulfill your needs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KingsCrossBerlin97 · 2019-04-07 21:50 What advantage does BSD have though? I can use flatpak or firejail instead of jail, right? So what's the real advantage? 70% will be used for sandboxed Firefox, 10% VLC, 20% sandboxed windows applications (wine). Linux users told me that BSD will have a cleaner kernel but that it doesn't matter in real life. I also heard that BSD should mainly be used for online distribution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DonovanNagel · 2019-04-07 22:51 I think a better question is: why are you considering BSD? You said you love Linux and everything works. Is there a reason you want to switch? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RealRaiz · 2019-04-08 02:11 No, sorry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KingsCrossBerlin97 · 2019-04-08 03:16 I thought since I'm going to ditch Ubuntu, I could also try out BSD. Especially, since people tell me how much safer it is etc. But, there's not a necessary reason why I'm considering BSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cgssg · 2019-04-08 04:16 I like the BSD systems in general and see them as good OS for servers. That is even after spending a significant amount of time to deploy FreeBSD on HPE standard G9 hardware because of BIOS and disk issues. For me, especially FreeBSD is a solid all-around OS with a good software firewall (pf) and excellent modern filesystem support (ZFS). Contrary to that, I've stayed away from installing any BSD on a laptop. The main reason is driver support for various modern bits of laptop hardware. Yes, that includes wifi drivers, suspend-to-ram/disk, and even external display support for USB 2 or 3. With the main Linux distros, I know that they at least do *some* testing on laptop hardware for their releases and modern hardware will probably be supported with the more recent kernels. . With the BSDs, I'm quite sure there is no testing of current-gen laptop hardware at all. Can I get a BSD to run on a 10+ year old Thinkpad with no add-ons and without wifi? Sure. Can I get it to run with the same functionality as Linux on a modern laptop? Nope. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- KingsCrossBerlin97 · 2019-04-08 04:27 Cool, so I just stick with a Linux distro then. Thanks! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 06:08 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- icantthinkofone · 2019-04-08 12:29 Then everything you mentioned is covered in FreeBSD except I don't know anything about flatpak or firejail. Why would you want to use firejail instead of the original, native, best jail system anyway? ​ You will find BSDs to be more understandable--everything makes more sense, and everything will be in its place. The community has far less flaming and you are more likely to get knowledgeable help, perhaps directly from the maintainer. ​ While Linux supports 10,000 devices, BSD support 9764 of the same devices. Do you see any concern in finding one that works for you? Yes, there are issues with wifi--specifically Broadcom--but you can always find a wifi adapter that works. ​ FreeBSD on my workstation and laptop for 15 years. in a professional and personal environment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FUZxxl · 2019-04-08 12:56 BSD systems are always a bit more on the “some assembly required” side of things. If you are good at following instructions, willing to read manuals and handbooks, and able to effectively use a terminal, BSD systems might be for you. It's not as comfortable as a modern Linux distribution, but using a BSD system does pay off (at least it did for me). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nick_storm · 2019-04-08 13:56 In my opinion, the differences between a BSD and Linux are subtle, at least to beginners. In general, Linux will have better hardware support and more support/resources (because of its bigger community). BSD offers consistency and perhaps stability, amongst other things. As I said, it's hard to qualify these things without experience. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- beowuff · 2019-04-08 14:13 This is pretty much it. There is a reason some call Arch the BSD of Linux. Though, you get a bit more with a default FreeBSD system then on a default Arch system. After install you get a simple prompt. Then, you move on to installing what you want to use on top of the system. That includes X, a login manager, DE or WM, etc. If system building doesn’t appeal to you, there are options. Trident, GhostBSD, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FUZxxl · 2019-04-08 14:27 FreeBSD is very similar to how Gentoo works in that Gentoo is basically a Linux distribution made to work like the FreeBSD ports system works. These days, FreeBSD has optional binary packages as well, so the comparison lacks in some regards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 14:51 Don't sue me, but let me be honest. I don't see any single valid reason for you to switch to any of these BSDs. Regarding hardware support, its like 8:10 ratio between FreeBSD:Linux. Bluetooth, WiFi, Optimus, dual boots, steam, USB Keyboards (USB, which is the worst peripheral design I have ever seen, like a toy that easily can get ejected) these things are hit or miss. I think Linux is good kernel, and with proper maintenance, things can really last long. I use BSD because I know BSDs. I could never able to learn that much about computer science what I learned in FreeBSD and OpenBSD world in few months. I run FreeBSD with securelevel 3 on my both laptop and desktop. (Dell XPS 13 2015 + assembled desktop with 4GB RAM with i3 processor). All powered by ZFS. My best advice is to do a VM install of OpenBSD (Yes, not freebsd, but openbsd) and learn how to administer the system first via command line. Then install it on hardware if you think it is decent enough. Installing and administering BSDs are not hard as niche Linux distros either way, due to text installers and documentations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 14:58 FreeBSD is like Gentoo with an installer and advanced package manager (it uses SAT dependency resolver) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 15:00 Wrong comparison. Jails are much like debchroot (not even lxc). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 15:01 FreeBSD is hella unsafe by default. OpenBSD is insanely secure. But remember, security and convenience, both are inversely proportional. I am FreeBSD user, with securelevel 3 with a hardening system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 15:04 Fkatpak is an application framework which uses Linux cgroups and runs applications on its own run time. (Libs are optionally shared between runtime if needed) OP probably got confused with some moral, ethical or canonical's decisions, which I do not consider a reason to switch into BSDs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 15:08 iPhone is not 100% free version BSD. We are talking about Free UNIX derivatives here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FUZxxl · 2019-04-08 15:09 The SAT solver is my least favourite part because it makes package installations unpredictable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 15:09 You better stick to a community driven distro with LVM setup. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rhabarba · 2019-04-08 15:28 Linux is not a UNIX derivative and Ubuntu is not 100% free. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rhabarba · 2019-04-08 15:29 > Can I get it to run with the same functionality as Linux on a modern laptop? Nope. Yes, you can. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- beowuff · 2019-04-08 15:38 This is why I compare FreeBSD more to Arch than Gentoo. In FreeBSD and Arch, you CAN compile everything from scratch, but usually you don't need or want to. The only reason to compile on either system is if you have special requirements that the defaults don't give you. I think it's interesting that people still say "These days, FreeBSD has optional binary packages..." FreeBSD has had binary packages for a LONG time. If anything, I'd say compiling from source is the optional part. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- beowuff · 2019-04-08 15:42 I wonder how HardenedBSD compares to OpenBSD these days... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 20:14 Good thing is that, there is a fallback iteration mode unlike dnf... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 20:20 > Linux is not a UNIX derivative It's good that it's not Unix derivative. UNIX is not the answer to every problem. Everything is not a file. Your printer is certainly not. > Ubuntu is not 100% free. Neither GPLv3 is. It's already copyleft. But I doubt people choose their OS based upon it's license, except for people like you or me or others like us. Besides 100% libre/free is fine, but nothing wrong with a bit of compromise too. I use a lot of proprietary apps that I love on my phone, but I also use BSDs in various technical scenarios from Laptop to desktops, routers to webservers. I like open source and free software too, and in fact they are preferred over nonfree ones anytime as long as they do what I want. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rhabarba · 2019-04-08 20:24 > It's good that it's not Unix derivative. UNIX is not the answer to every problem. So we are *not* talking about UNIX derivatives here? - I agree that UNIX is not the answer to every problem. I mean, we actually have graphical desktops now, no teletypes anymore. But why are we talking about moving from a non-UNIX that simulates 70s Unices to a non-UNIX that is based on 70s Unices then? > I doubt people choose their OS based upon it's license, except for people like you or me or others like us. I have never chosen any software based upon its license, except maybe its licensing fees. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 20:25 It depends on model. People just generalize too much ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 20:30 > why are we talking about moving from a non-UNIX that simulates 70s Unices to a non-UNIX that is based on 70s Unices then? I don't know. My recommendation would be less focused towards Unix-y, more towards "What serves your purpose". Disabling Ubuntu's telemetry, changing it's DE, or even moving to a different Linux based distro would be easier for OP than completely jump off to a different OS. You never know what he wants and how he wants that to work. I don't think Ubuntu vs iPhone is a fair comparison by any means no matter how much Ubuntu push nonfree blobs/apps via their distribution platforms. Despite of many nonfree work, Ubuntu is really open for using at multiple devices without any legal issues. Do that with iphone iOS, with lots of porting, you get the idea ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2019-04-08 20:37 This project helped FreeBSD to mitigate a lot of stuff. But I would run OpenBSD over HBSD as I owe to OBSD community for teaching me how to use BSDs when I was 1st into BSD world ---------------------------------------------------------------------- vermaden · 2019-04-09 10:36 Making your own FreeBSD Desktop can be a lot fun - but also a lot work - [https://vermaden.wordpress.com/freebsd- desktop/](https://vermaden.wordpress.com/freebsd-desktop/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DonovanNagel · 2019-04-09 17:00 I would use HardenedBSD instead of FreeBSD but it's a tiny project run by two guys. I want something that has long-term viability and stability. That's why Hardened is out for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- claudiom · 2019-04-13 16:24 My recommendation would be to run a BSD-based OS in a virtual machine first in order to become familiar with it. I run vanilla FreeBSD on an older Dell Latitude D620 and it runs quite well on that. Suspend/resume might be the only issues you'd encounter (as I do with the Dell) unless you're using a ThinkPad laptop. Regarding hardware support, FreeBSD has the best hardware support IMO of all the BSDs (unless you want to throw in NetBSD, but that supports more *architectures* than it would integrated/peripheral hardware). The graphics support has gotten much better with the release of FreeBSD 12.0, but it's still not quite as supported as it is on the Linux side (maybe a generation or two behind in support). IIRC, NVIDIA does has a proprietary driver for FreeBSD but I'm not sure about AMD, even though the Xorg driver for AMD video cards is quite good. Some have mentioned TrueOS, but that BSD has gone back to its roots and no longer provides a default desktop. While you can pick and choose a desktop environment post-installation, you might want to look at GhostBSD (TrueOS base with MATE Desktop as the default) or Project Trident (TrueOS base with Lumina as the default desktop, basically what TrueOS was before the end of 2018).