FreeBSD plans to rebase its ZFS implementation on ZoL (ZFS-on-Linux) reddit / BSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- E39M5S62 · 2018-12-19 17:56 This is a good thing. Getting the same codebase on multiple different platforms and architectures will result in improved stability for everybody. There should be less delay / overhead now for new features and bug fixes to migrate around the ZFS implementations. ZoL has really improved over the last couple years and clearly has the momentum behind it now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- one_is_the_loneliest · 2018-12-19 18:26 It's a little sad that FreeBSD is not leading the way on this, and this just highlights how little they've contributed to the project compared to other groups. I _wish_ FreeBSD had enough funding to lead the charge, but that just doesn't seem to be the case. Unfortunately, I think many people will treat this as yet another reason to not bother with FreeBSD and instead use ZoL, since they're at parity now on ZFS. I'll probably keep using it because it's solving my problems, but fewer users could mean less investment long-term... We'll see how it plays out. Short term, however, it's nice to get all the features and bug fixes contributed to ZoL. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- E39M5S62 · 2018-12-19 18:51 Personally, I think that the tighter integration of ZFS in FreeBSD is still a very compelling feature. The closest Linux gets to that is on Ubuntu, which ships the modules with every vendor update. Unfortunately, you're then locked to months and then years-old releases of ZFS/SPL. I think that what FreeBSD brings to the table for ZoL at this point is increased test coverage and having to evaluate design assumptions in the context of multiple kernels and architectures. There will of course be patches originating from the FreeBSD development team. The next 6 months to a year will be exciting times for ZFS! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- one_is_the_loneliest · 2018-12-19 19:12 I sure hope so. I've been wanting to build out a storage cluster at home, but I've been dragging my feet, mostly to see where BTRFS (RAID5 write hole) and ZFS go. ZoL has always seemed sketchy to me because only Ubuntu seems to be championing it ATM. Sure, it's "there" on a variety of distributions, but SUSE uses BTRFS by default (and no support for ZFS) and RedHat doesn't support either, and I'd really like to use my home setup as a template for my upcoming business. I'm also trying to simplify, and right now I use: - Arch Linux - desktop - FreeBSD - basic web hosting - OpenSUSE Leap - hosting for docker containers (won't work OOTB on FreeBSD) - Debian - consulting gigs I'm switching to OpenSUSE Tumbleweed for desktop (I use it for games as well, so FreeBSD is out), so I'll either need to find a solution for my docker-based projects (bhyve?) or figure out a storage engine if I'm going to consolidate my servers. I'd like to just deal with one OS, but that doesn't seem possible unless BTRFS fixes the write hole and it turns out to not cause headaches in managing the RAID. ZFS is fantastic, I just wish I could get ZFS, docker, and official support in one package. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- qci · 2018-12-19 20:48 They don't rebase, they use Subversion. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- classicrando · 2018-12-20 07:26 You can't really compete with LLNL, they are highly motivated to develop high performance large filesystem software. I think it is better to have people with an immense stake in what they are working on. This gives FreeBSD time to improve all the other aspects of the platform. I'd like to see ZoL run on all the BSDs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- classicrando · 2018-12-20 07:36 You'll prob never get official support on RH based distros but I ran it on Fedora for a few 10s of millions of file back when it first came out and it was rock solid - ran everything on jfs before that. No need to wait, zfs is awesome! https://rudd-o.com/linux-and-free-software/installing-fedora-on-top- of-zfs https://github.com/tesujimath/zfs-tools-zbackup ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poshpotdllr · 2018-12-20 09:14 can we stop calling freebsd bsd now? all those freebsd devs could be working on areal platform. its a waste of talent. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LocalRefuse · 2018-12-20 15:28 Are you going to ditch openbsd for using linux's DRM/KMS drivers? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poshpotdllr · 2018-12-20 17:02 openbsd is religion. theo is god. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- daemonpenguin · 2018-12-20 23:53 I don't think that is the way anyone is going to see it. For a few reasons: 1. There is ZFS development done under FreeBSD, but it tends to get upstreamed. Previously to Illumos, but not to ZoL. It's not that work isn't being done on FreeBSD for ZFS, it's just that FreeBSD is not acting as the upstream host. 2. More work may be done on ZoL, but that is not translating into more Linux distros supporting ZFS. Almost no Linux distros support ZFS at install time (only a few and they tend to be niche) and only one or two support root on ZFS. FreeBSD is years ahead in the implementation and integration part. Virtually no one who needs ZFS is turning to Linux first. Some out of long-term stability concerns (no ZFS in the kernel), some due to lack of commercial support options, some because of the lack of ZFS on root. But the bottom line is if you need ZFS to do anything major, you're doing it with FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- one_is_the_loneliest · 2018-12-21 00:06 And I just hope that continues to be the case. I love FreeBSD and I would hate to see one of its main selling points being swept out from under it by Linux. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2018-12-22 12:59 [removed] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2018-12-24 09:34 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kmetadata · 2018-12-24 14:00 Why the FreeBSd people hate all linux stuff. and I mean realy hate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CommonMisspellingBot · 2018-12-24 14:00 Hey, Kmetadata, just a quick heads-up: **realy** is actually spelled **really**. You can remember it by **two ls**. Have a nice day! ^^^^The ^^^^parent ^^^^commenter ^^^^can ^^^^reply ^^^^with ^^^^'delete' ^^^^to ^^^^delete ^^^^this ^^^^comment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BooCMB · 2018-12-24 14:01 Hey CommonMisspellingBot, just a quick heads up: Your spelling hints are really shitty because they're all essentially "remember the fucking spelling of the fucking word". You're useless. Have a nice day! [^Save ^your ^breath, ^I'm ^a ^bot.](https://www.reddit.com/user/BooCMB/comments/9vnzpd/faq/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kmetadata · 2018-12-24 16:34 ZFS sucks on every thing that is not a server. An File System that does not allow shrinking in 2018 is not usable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- classicrando · 2018-12-24 16:45 It's not for "not servers" and no one using zfs cares about shrinking; they care about supporting reliability. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kmetadata · 2018-12-24 16:46 and thus no one uses it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- classicrando · 2018-12-24 16:53 I and the rest of the no ones have been super happy with it since its release! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kmetadata · 2018-12-24 16:57 Hey you guys went woke and now your going broke. Unlike linux the BSD's still hate the desktop. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kmetadata · 2018-12-24 21:05 Yah no if you need ZFS you use Solaris as it is there file system and you guys just clone what ever they do. ZFS is not interesting to me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s_w_eek · 2018-12-25 22:56 ....there's like 1 maintained solaris anymore. Some people like their files and don't like being limited to one OS. edit: You're the guy that started that garbage thread about kfreebsd, so I understand this is a hard concept for you to grasp. Go home and stop bitching here. You clearly are just here to troll. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kmetadata · 2018-12-26 06:25 Yah XFS, ZFS, and UFS do make you limited and nothing other then BSD can use them. XFS was created for servers and so was ZFS. They are not good to be used on the desktop. UFS/FFS is usesless. UFS/FFS-The fact that most don't know the diffrence is telling. For example it is not usable out side of the BSD's. Even linux can only see the thing. Even the BSD's it is a pain in the ass. You offten here about dulebooting issues because the diffrences in how the bsd's set it up. For example NetBSD and DragionFly often are incompatible and don't see each others FFS set ups. You can't use it for OSX and Windows. Windows is the most populer OS. If you can not move files from Windows most of us are fucked. The only way to solve it is to use a Network. There is not even a tool to get it working on Windows. That just shows how crap it is. Even Minix moved away from it with version 3. I am not some dummy or troll Mr Jack Ass. Then you have XFS the defult for DebianBSD 8. It was made by SGI and open sourced in the early 2000's. While it does have things like journaling it can not be shrunk. That means it is not good for portablity or desktops. It also can not be converted like EXT. The is not driver for Windows at all and the OSX fuse driver stops working on OSX after version 10.8. There is no builds for it on brew and the other ones like Macports don't work. Even on Linux we have had more options. Now days EXT 4 is the best and only real option. The fact that the BSD's have not replaced UFS is stupid. We have drives for EXT 4 for Windows and OSX. I know it is about the GPL vs BSD thing which is bull crap. Then you have ZFS and oh boy. NOt good for the desktop like XFS. No real standards between Solaris, Linux and BSD just like UFS.IT is bloated and uses to much R.A.M just like HammerFS. It has features that are useless to the average person just like BTRFS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s_w_eek · 2018-12-26 06:38 Red Hat ships XFS by default nowadays my dude ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kmetadata · 2018-12-26 12:05 Again only good for servers and not desktops. It is not like you can use BTRFS or ZFS. BTRFS is not stable enough to use on servers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s_w_eek · 2018-12-26 12:16 I agree that BTRFS is not stable for use. I run all my Linux boxes (yes, even my laptop) on ZFS (ZoL) though, so I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Calkhas · 2019-01-05 02:51 Not to mention NFSv4 ACLs ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- recourse7 · 2019-01-07 15:57 What is interesting to you? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kmetadata · 2019-01-16 21:59 simple...BFS/OpenBFS. Just like many things Be was the best. The pest at packages, the best file system, and the best at Multitaskinsg and Multimidia in 1994. Yet no one uses it because most BSD users have there heads up there own ass. Be is Open Source and under the MIT. That means you got no excuse for not having in the dam ports tree after 19 years of having an open source driver! It is as good as Ext 3 with its jornaling features and it's file size abilitys. It is also like an open source clone of Winfs for long horn (before Windows was a thing). I love how it handles files as it makes searching much less of a pain in the ass thanks to how it handles metadata. It it is why I changed me last too. I know a file system discribes my personality. It is like seeing Linux ingore Reiser just because the man mudered his wife. BAD for sure, but when the software is good you don't care if even the devil made it. Just look at linux teaming up with the NSA of all people. ​ With BFS you fix all the issues with FFS as there is a standard and there is no need to worry about the GPL. You guys have had 19 years and you still don't have any care about the desktop. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kmetadata · 2019-01-16 22:09 Yah Wrong, you have Solaris that lives until 2035 and OI Hippster. If you don't like the OS, don't use there File System as it is not like you are getting updates from Orical any more. BFS has been open source for 19 years and no one other then a view OS's have used it when it has been better then Ext 2 for years and been under the MIT the whole time. Linux has a fuse driver at least and FreeBSD has nothing. IT is not like they are going to put it in ether. ​ Also you prove my point showing that most BSD users just want the Family to die on the server instead of competeing for the Desktop. AT least DebainBSD can boot unlike GhostBSD 18.12 that dies tring to unload UFS into 2 GB of RAM and just gets stuck there. Debain BSD worked unlike GhostBSD that still can't boot on a 2014 laptop 5 YEARS LATTER. EVEN HAIKU BOOTS AND REACT OS. When the joke of the FOSS world can at least boot up enough to crash and yours can not that tells you. If IXSystems were going to fund any distro of FreeBSD it should have been DebainBSD. It worked and was easy to use unlike GhostBSD. It took them until 2019 to even have a good package manager. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FOSSilized_Daemon · 2019-01-16 22:44 Read more at [The Church of Puffenology](https://www.openbsd.org/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- poshpotdllr · 2019-01-17 03:26 this guy gets all the girls. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s_w_eek · 2019-01-23 16:41 >Oracle > > > >also Oracle ZFS is not OpenZFS ​ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s_w_eek · 2019-01-23 16:47 Trolling and whining about dead OSs ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯