How's the [Nvidia] driver support compared to Linux? reddit / BSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- maskedbyte · 2017-11-15 06:55 The Nvidia proprietary drivers on Linux are pretty good. Not great, but good. I don't imagine those drivers would work on BSD, because of the different kernel? Are the drivers decent? How about for 3d acceleration? Talking about FreeBSD here.* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jaypatelani · 2017-11-15 07:31 From Nvidia site http://www.nvidia.com/object/freebsd-archive.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jaypatelani · 2017-11-15 07:31 http://www.nvidia.com/object/freebsd-x64-archive.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jaypatelani · 2017-11-15 07:32 https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensucht94 · 2017-11-15 08:16 Same as linux, look at [**Nvidia FreeBSD diver database**](http://www.nvidia.com/object/freebsd-archive.html). > I don't imagine thos drivers would work on BSD You imagine wrong. When Nvidia produces a new device, its drivers are released almost at the same time for all platforms: Windows, Solaris/Illumos, Linux, Linux ARM and FreeBSD. The Core Code of Nvidia Drivers is in fact the same for all OSes. Hence, it could be relatively easily ported to other platforms: a pity it's closed source From my experience I can tell you that: albeit proprietary Nvidia Driver **performance is always astonishing**, regardless of the OS, especially when compared with open source retro-engineered Nvidia/Intel/Radeon drivers (quite understandable), in my experience its **stability is highly variable and sometimes disappointing**, depending on different OSes. Speaking of Linux, for me, Nvidia proprietary driver got along much better with some Linux distros than others. Speaking of Solaris/Illumos, the same driver that "just worked" in Oracle Solaris, gave me several problems in Open Indiana and Tribblix I think it's just a matter of priorities for developers, who have to put some effort into mantaining the userland of their distro perfectly compatible with new Nvidia Drivers versions. For what concern FreeBSD, there's no distro (the officially supported Kernel+Base system is only one, and its named FreeBSD), whereas the userland Nividia-compatibility mantaining effort is strongly stressed and encouraged. As a consequence there's almost always a perfectly working Nvidia driver for FreeBSD, and I've never heard of any problem which wasn't due to not reading/misunderstand handbook,man pages and forums' threads And yes, **there's 3D acceleration**, [**open source/ported**](https://www.freebsd.org/ports/games.htmland wine- compliant) games work very well with amazing performance (I played well Napoleon Total War with best graphic options), and FreeBSD would even be a good gaming platform if games were ported (which naturally is nowhere happening). Until recently there was also a [**nouveau port**](https://www.freshports.org/x11-drivers/xf86-video-nouveau), but it's not mantained any longer and doesn't build on FBSD 11. In the end, like I said, there was no need for an open source driver (although regardless of performance, I hate closed-source and in past I used nouveau on any platform, even FreeBSD in order to support volunteer porters). [**NetBSD still mantains nouveau**](https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/NetBSD/) and should support any device Nouveau has been confirmed working onto in Linux. Due to many reasons, OpenBSD has lacking Nvidia support. For older devices there's [**nv driver**](https://www.google.it/search?q=nv+ope nbsd+driver&oq=nv+openbsd+driver&aqs=chrome..69i57.5247j0j4&client=ms- android-huawei&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8), while for everything else there's framebuffer driver, [**wfsb**](https://man.openbsd.org/wsfb.4), and obviously vesa. Anyway if there's a musn't in OpenBSD is newer Nvidia GPU :) DragonflyBSD has only VESA to offer to Nvidia users, even though proprietary Nvidia driver for FreeBSD reportedly builds and works for some devices, while other people succesfully used NetBSD nouveau through pkgsrc. Anyway Nvidia is a musn't also in Dragonfly (in the end it supports Kaby Lake, and almost any ATI Radeon, so why choose Nvidia?) It's not assured, and I do not know much, but proprietary Nvidia driver should build on any FreeBSD derivative that is not an absolute fork (but is updated using newer FreeBSD version as base): TrueOS, FreeNAS, GhostBSD support it, while I do not know about pfSense (but who uses GUI in pfSense?) and PacBSD (but I know it has a nvidia port). DesktopBSD and MidnightBSD are forks, so I doubt they have it, similarly to DragonFly Hope this helps ---------------------------------------------------------------------- phessler · 2017-11-15 08:48 > Due to many reasons, OpenBSD has lacking Nvidia support We don't allow binary blobs. That's the main reason. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Demiisen · 2017-11-15 09:05 Does Steam work on FreeBSD or any/many of its titles (Dota for example), do you know? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensucht94 · 2017-11-15 09:45 Yes, I know right and lecit. Since there's been debate about that in the past,I just said 'many reason'. sorry if it was misleading ---------------------------------------------------------------------- phessler · 2017-11-15 10:03 There isn't a debate. Some people don't understand that it isn't up for discussion. The open source driver could work, but someone has to do the work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensucht94 · 2017-11-15 10:17 I highly discpurage you to take the path of FreeBSD gaming. IMHO there's only one platform for Steam and commercial games outside of Windows and macOS, and it's UbuntuLTS + QEMU/KVM with VGA passthrough for Windows-only games. There's a port of Linux Steam-Native for FreeBSD on github but hasn't been mantained lately and currently dows not build, unless you fetch every library manually. However, steam installs correctly in wine, better if using winetricks or PlayOnBSD (PlayOnLinux port). Many games, especially legacy ones have no/little issue with wine-Steam. PlayonBSD contains also pre- patched Steam versions of some games. Many other older games have been reported to work with wine on FreeBSD (no Steam). I played Age of Mythology, Hitman, Max Payne II, Caesar III, CivilizationIII, CS GO, Rome Total War, Quake IV, Unreal Tournament 2004, Tomb Raider V, Unreal Gold, Deus Ex, Half Life, all in wine But again, unless you want to get your hands dirty and waste a lot of time, avoid that: *BSDs are a fantastic choice (my choice) for many different applications, and I think all of them fare pretty well as a desktop OS, but gaming is not an option for a pro gamer. As opposite, if you're a casual/retro gamer, like me FreeBSD might already suite all of your needs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensucht94 · 2017-11-15 10:17 Thanks ;) Anyway, I was speaking of debate around Nouveau and the possibility to port it, though I'm not the one who would ever be able to do that, and given my hardware, I'm pretty much satisfied with **nv** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Demiisen · 2017-11-15 11:47 Thanks for the in-depth response. I'm really used to running games on Arch Linux but I'm a big BSD fan as well and it'd be a nice change but if things aren't working smoothly then I'll give it a miss. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nanosleep · 2017-11-15 11:50 >it's UbuntuLTS + QEMU/KVM with VGA passthrough for Windows-only games. KVM and vt-d passthrough is for sure the only way to go if you're dead-set on playing stuff like gta5/pubg.. but if you're a linux user first and foremost, and would just like to play some games casually... you're probably comfortable enough with linux to be maintaining steam on any distro. I think your recommendation of Ubuntu LTS is probably correct for people that want the least amount of hassle to play video games on Linux, but at the same time.. if they're *nix users, they're used to the occasional hiccup and can probably debug quickly. Such is the nature of life in an evolving software ecosystem. >There's a port of Linux Steam-Native for FreeBSD on github but hasn't been mantained lately and currently dows not build, unless you fetch every library manually. The last time I tried Steam on FreeBSD (FreeBSD at all.. really) was a year or two ago, right when [this script](https://github.com/SteamOnFreeBSD/SteamOnFreeBSD) got some press on phoronix. Out of the box, it was enough to play cs:go and insurgency. A few of the indie games I owned (like This War of Mine) did not work initially because of missing libs, but after unaring the deb to my compat dir, they ran fine. I think I was missing a pulseaudio lib or some shit.. it was not complicated at all. Are you sure that script is broken? It was updated just a couple months ago. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensucht94 · 2017-11-15 13:49 Yes, thanks to have pointed that out Nanosleep. You're right about what I was suggesting regarding Ubuntu LTS, since it's the only officially supported Linux platform by Steam. On other systems it might or might not work well, even though usually it does, especially with a little effort from the user. My statement was more like: "the pro gamer who's used to play on Windows or macOS, and switches to Linux because he/her doesn't want to pay for Win10 or a macbook, also will probably expect to install Steam easily and have every game available for Linux work and perform well on its computer. As he/her goal is mainly to play games with the least frequence of issues, possibly comparable to Windows', then UbuntuLTS is the best choice, if not the only one, in my opinion For other players like most users here, who couldn't care less about ranked/ultra-competitive gaming, who do not care if they cannot play that specific game, with that graphic option enabled, and don't mind playing older games and taking care of everyday little issues, then every OS might be a good platform, even BSD =D PS: My gaming platform are Steam for Linux on Slackware and Dosbox :) > Are you sure the script is broken? It was updated just a couple of months ago Really? Thank you for the info! I'll give it a try when I have some spare time. I apologize for having provided outdated info then; my last attempt was in late August, when I updated my system and decided to clean completely my /home and /usr/local. I wasn't able to install the port again as the install script was a mess of broken urls. Glad it's been updated then, the mantainer is doing a great work ---------------------------------------------------------------------- maskedbyte · 2017-11-15 17:53 Amazing answer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- floatboth · 2017-11-15 18:09 > especially when compared with open source retro-engineered Nvidia/Intel/Radeon drivers (quite understandable) nouveau is the only one you could call that. amdgpu and i915 are maintained by AMD and Intel employees respectively. And they're very very good drivers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- floatboth · 2017-11-15 18:11 nvidia makes their blobs by themselves, and publishes on their website, without asking what you allow :) I guess the lack of loadable kernel modules is the real problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- floatboth · 2017-11-15 18:12 huh, they updated that page for Kaby Lake… but not new Radeons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- floatboth · 2017-11-15 18:17 I reboot to Windows for Windows games, but FreeBSD runs emulators (Dolphin, PPSSPP) great. (Even with Vulkan graphics on new Radeons!) Also many open source games are ported natively (e.g. OpenMW). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnimalFactsBot · 2017-11-15 18:25 Dolphins live in schools or pods of up to 12 individuals. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- masta · 2017-11-15 20:42 I seem to remember playing quake2 on FreeBSD many years ago with Nvidia drivers. It works. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- masta · 2017-11-15 20:49 > We don't allow binary blobs. That's the main reason. What about firmware binary blobs for a nic, or wifi that feature driver loadable firmwares? People tend to tar & pitch fork Nvidia, but ignore other device drivers that do the same. Even some boot loaders are pretty much the same issue with binaries. It is very much an issue of moral relativity versus getting work done.... when it comes to binary blobs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensucht94 · 2017-11-16 02:18 > amdgpu and i915 are mantained by AMD and Intel employees respectively. And they're ver very good drivers Thanks, I did not know there were such sort of developers behind those drivers, glad to hear that :) Speaking of amdgpu driver, are you referring to [radeon](https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=radeon&sektion=4) and [xf86-video- ati](https://www.freshports.org/x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati/) or the currentlly under mantainement [xf86-video- amdgpu](https://www.freshports.org/x11-drivers/xf86-video-amdgpu)? Anyway, I can agree on i915, which normally really works out of the box, but what about AMD? I've never had an ATI/AMD GPU and consequently I haven't been given the chance to try it on FreeBSD. What I said was based on what I had read on forums, which loked like a commonly shared thought. In many thread [like that](https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/62484/) it sounded like Radeon support was pretty much loose and most of times AMD GPUs were discouraged, especially for 3D acceleration, whereas Nvidia was suggested as better replacement. The idea I got from threads was that Radeon support in FreeBSD is a Nightmare. Now you're saying the opposite, so should I reconsider this? Regarding i915kms and xf86-video-intel, the reason for which I stated that it can't keep up with Nvidia are: - STABLE still hasn't Skylake support, while OpenBSD 6.2 and DragonflyBSD 5.0 have Kabylake already. Yes, having Haswell is a fantastic achievement already, yet what I intended is that if a driver is open source, then it can't be as up to date as proprietary binaries. It could, but it's a matter of priorities, and when a lot of work has to be done I can understand Coffee Lake is not on top of the schedule. - i915 has never worked for me on s Celeron, although its integratrd Graphics wad listed among supported. No matter how hard I tried, I didn't manage to get tis working. They said it had been solved in CURRENT (which at yhe time was 11), butvit wasn't so. DragonflyBSD's i915 instead correctly reached my GPU. I saw a couple of other reports about i915 failing on Celeron or not supporting Bail Trail in the past Still, this does not alter thr fact that i915 supports most Intel Graphics and is, as you said, a very very good driver ---------------------------------------------------------------------- phessler · 2017-11-16 08:23 OpenBSD don't allow *any* binary blobs. We even don't have kernel modules, so they *can't* be loaded. We have morals, and stand by them. Why is that a shock to people? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- floatboth · 2017-11-16 11:02 Who cares about STABLE? ~~horses? :D~~ I'm talking CURRENT + [drm- next-kmod](https://www.freshports.org/graphics/drm-next-kmod). Kaby Lake works. AMD Polaris (RX 480) works, with Vulkan and Wayland support. > if a driver is open source, then it can't be as up to date as proprietary binaries Intel literally does not produce proprietary GPU drivers for platforms other than Windows. i915 is the *only* driver made by Intel for Linux. Sure it gets ported by various BSDs at different speeds :D but a proprietary one does not *exist*. AMD has a proprietary userspace-side driver for Linux (AMDGPU-PRO) that works with the same kernel driver (amdgpu) as Mesa RadeonSI. But the proprietary one is kinda on its way out. [AMD contributes to Mesa a lot](https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/log/?qt=author&q=%40amd. com). RadeonSI is faster in most games these days. > are you referring to radeon and xf86-video-ati or the currentlly under mantainement xf86-video-amdgpu? My current machine is `amdgpu` (RX 480) but other people have reported success with `radeonkms`. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensucht94 · 2017-11-16 15:33 Wow, that's amazing, really, more than I expected from 12. Now I'm tempted to install it and see how Wayland performs. I'd always avoided CURRENT since all my hardware was already supported, and every time someone opens a thread about issues on CURRENT, they're presented with the freebsd-current mailing-list, as current is expected to be developer-oriented. So is it actually feasible to use CURRENT without encountering major issues or experiencing system breaks? At the time the only "CURRENT" thing I run is a NetBSD 7.1 recent snapshot on Rpi3, and btw it gives me no problem ---------------------------------------------------------------------- floatboth · 2017-11-16 18:00 I've been using CURRENT as a daily system since 2015. Haven't seen many system breaks. It's a bit early to look into actually using Wayland. For example, XWayland seems broken now for some reason, I still haven't fixed it. If you do decide to try this stuff, [my ports](https://github.com/myfreeweb/freebsd-ports-dank) might help :D ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tsugi_no_Shinya · 2017-11-16 20:32 good bot ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensucht94 · 2017-11-16 20:40 Hey, thanks, this is kind of you, and looks really interesting ;) Anyway, you made me curious; think I'll get into CURRENT, Wayland and Vulkan as soon as I have some spare time. Guess time has come to test also i915 with my i5 7500 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnimalFactsBot · 2017-11-16 20:59 Thanks! You can ask me for more facts any time. Beep boop. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- sigzero · 2017-11-17 18:00 >We have policies, and stand by them. I don't think "morals" is the right word. I don't think it shocks people. I think people wish it was not the case. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- letterafterl14 · 2017-11-24 08:11 >Solaris Dang, Nvidia still makes drivers for Solaris? S10 or S11? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensucht94 · 2017-11-24 08:21 Drivers are up to date for latest OS/Net Kernel, so apply to Solaris 11.3 and any Illumos derivative currently mantained: SmartOS, OmniOS, Dyson, OpenIndiana, OpenSXCE, Tribblix OS, Nexenta, XStreamOS. Solaris, OpenIndiana and Nexenta implement the driver in the graphical i staller, so they install and load the right Nvidia binary for you. I use Solaris Nvidia driver with Tribblix on a legacy desktop PC :). I REALLY hope not the project to be dropped because of Oracle dismissing Solaris (so sad...). I whish Nvidia woyld keep on producing the driver only for Illumos, but orovably that's some sort of whishful thinking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 3G6A5W338E · 2017-11-30 09:59 > Speaking of amdgpu driver, are you referring to radeon and xf86-video-ati or the currentlly under mantainement xf86-video-amdgpu? Both are worked on by amd employees and others, using hardware documentation amd published. NVidia isn't even an option, as they don't perform that much better if at all, while they do not publish any such docs. Eww.