A Good BSD for a Powerbook G4? reddit / BSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-01 19:08 I've got a fever, and the only prescription is BSD. I've got an older (2001) Powerbook G4 Titanium that I'd like to get a BSD variant running on. Requirements boil down to: * Supports PPC * Has binary packages for PPC * Simple (enough) to install -- I'm fairly comfortable with OpenFirmware so long as I'm told what needs to go where. * Supports a fair bit of hardware: I need some funny broadcom linux- sees-it-as-atk9k stuff. I need a PCMCIA card that does *WPA2* -- Not easy to come by. BSD's I've tried: * FreeBSD: PPC support but tier-2 means I don't have any binary packages. 10.1 also has a funky regression and can't boot. FreeBSD10.0-STABLE booted, installed and worked, but the lack of binary packages meant I spent 3 hours compiling zsh. * NetBSD: PPC support, binary packages, but I can't get it installed. It won't boot at all, punting me back at the OpenFirmware shell when I try manually. * OpenBSD: As a last resort, I've tried OpenBSD. Instructions unclear, had to reset PRAM. **edit**: I had a horrible time trying to partition disks. I spent a long while sitting and trying to filter through the documentation on what I should do to *actually* use my whole disk, instead of having a bunch of assorted partitions for things I don't care about having as special partitions. At the moment, I'm running Debian. I'm tempted to try out Debian/kFreeBSD, but it only has packages for intel. I'll be using a handful of things: * Some kind of WWW browser, most likely Uzbl or Surf * A really light window environment (i3) * Vim * LaTeX * Some lightweight media player for net streams So, should I stick with Debian, which runs (mostly)? Or is there a killer BSD variant out there I should invest my time in? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Illumniggati · 2015-01-01 19:19 Honestly, I'd hate to plug this into here. But I'd go with arch for what you want. Everything you want is supported in arch (at least as far as I know). You can stick to debian if you want. I'm just getting started into BSD so I don't know *too* much about it. You can always try NetBSD again too. Maybe try to install it in a VM first? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-01 19:27 Unfortunately, PowerPC was dropped from Archlinux a while ago, and it's a sad day. ArchLinuxPPC is deadder than a doornail. Apparently, there's some simple NetBSD guides out there, and I'm tempted to try again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Illumniggati · 2015-01-01 19:39 Oh damn, I didn't know that. Yeah I'd probably try again at NetBSD. Its got to work at some point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ddp · 2015-01-01 20:07 I got NetBSD running a few years ago on a Powerbook G4 but I do remember that the installation was quite tricky. I ultimately gave up because x11 didn't like the graphics environment and the maintainer didn't think that a fix for my particular problem was likely to happen. It was stable though otherwise, as far as I could tell. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kev009 · 2015-01-01 20:21 If you're feeling adventurous, you could try building binary packages on a powerful x86 box http://blog.ignoranthack.me/?p=212 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- janizary · 2015-01-01 23:08 Interesting that you had the hardest time with OpenBSD, last time I tried to do PPC and BSD, it had the best support. What was the obtuse component of your experience? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- calrogman · 2015-01-02 03:08 Surprised by the "instructions unclear" statement. OpenBSD's INSTALL.$arch files are fantastic pieces of documentation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NominallyMusing · 2015-01-02 04:43 I have OpenBSD running on my 1.33GHz iBook G4, only thing I had to do was type the right boot command for the CD installer in OpenFirmware. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-02 04:49 Partitioning. I'm *traditionally* used to Linux, so it confused me mightily when I had to double-partition, and the suggested autopartition left me with 30GB of unused disk that I sat and beat my head against. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-02 04:51 I can get the installer to boot, but I get stuck at partitioning. Notably, I don't have an install of OSX to rely on, which it looks like the whole INSTALL guide was built around. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-02 04:57 I've never installed OpenBSD on a system before. The installer assumes you know exactly what you're doing, while others like FreeBSD give you an option to just do everything automatic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NominallyMusing · 2015-01-02 05:07 I don't recall that being an issue, I have only OpenBSD installed on the drive. The install is pretty painless, one big partition with BSD slices inside. I think I had to go back to OpenFirmware to set the boot properly off the HDD after the install. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-02 05:09 I could mostly get around that but I was still left with a highly confusing "Unused Space" partition of about 30GB that I couldn't get right. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- janizary · 2015-01-02 10:03 The installer assumes you are reading the documentation, which you were not. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nbca · 2015-01-02 12:36 Good thing that part is [documented](http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html)! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-02 17:39 I was reading the documentation. The documentation and reality are two separate things. The documentation states I should be able to press a magical "W" button at partitioning, and it'll do things for me. Instead, I get "I dunno what the fuck you're doing, here's a shell, sort it out." The documentation doesn't explain why my system isn't bootable after installation. The documentation omits details of what to do when installation goes ALL WRONG AND EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE. Like my case. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-02 17:40 Not especially well. And it's wrong for my case. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- evidentlycat · 2015-01-02 18:03 > I spent a long while sitting and trying to filter through the documentation on what I should do to actually use my whole disk, instead of having a bunch of assorted partitions for things I don't care about having as special partitions. Here's the thing: On OpenBSD, the defaults are usually the defaults for a reason. The *bunch of assorted partitions for things I don't care about* add to the security of the system, because they allow for mount flags such as "nodev" and "nosuid". It is obvious that you have not [read the FAQ](http://www.openbsd.org/faq//faq4.html#Partitioning). "w" for "whole disk", followed by "w" and "q" to write the partitions to the disk and quit disklabel will not kill you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- drop_ascension · 2015-01-02 20:22 A guy in /r/linux told me I could ressurect a powerbook with bsd (openbsd he mentioned specifically)... Let me piggyback on this thread since I need to ask: Powerbook aluminium G4 1,67ghz with radeon In linux this model is pretty much done since mesa no longer supports the radeon card, I see that the mesa version in openbsd is pretty much the same. If I have to downgrade mesa in linux in bsd it's probably the same nightmare right? as anyone tried openbsd 5.6 with this specific powerbook model? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-02 22:39 This is why people don't use the BSD variants. I read the fucking FAQ. It doesn't cover what I wanted to damn well know and holy hell why can't installing a fucking BS be simple. I'd use FreeBSD if it had binaries for 10 and 10.1 didn't halt during boot. I asked a simple goddamn question. I *know* they're partitioned like that. I don't care. I want / to be one slice. End of story. I don't need /usr to be special, and I don't need the source tree to be something special. I want things a specific way. Edit: the FAQ even says a single / is fine until you know what you're doing. IT FAILS TO DESCRIBE HOW TO HANDLE THIS. Double edit: on my install, I don't get "whole disk" and the INSTALL.macppc says "do it from osx," which I don't have. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- calrogman · 2015-01-03 04:09 No, it's not. Read the bit about the 'c' partition and admit that you are wrong. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-03 04:15 And I've attempted to do this repeatedly. My last attempt (I gave up afterwards) was to use MBR + Autopartition. This failed, creating a nice wd0i partition as MSDOS, then painting over it with /usr/src. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jp599 · 2015-01-03 09:06 Rather than trying to prove that you are right, consider that other people may be driven away from OpenBSD in a similar way. If you want to just blame them and say they are lazy, stupid, or ignorant, that's fine. But then don't be surprised when more people use other systems like Linux or FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- calrogman · 2015-01-03 09:10 Why would I want to attract a user who is a) beyond help and b) not worth helping? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jp599 · 2015-01-03 09:33 Unfriendliness hurts the popularity of the system. It's then hypocritical when OpenBSD team members cause a tantrum about how nobody is providing money to fund their development, or even enough to support Theo's electricity bills. If the community is bigger, there will be more developers, more funding, and generally more good things. The OpenBSD community could grow if they were more inviting and helpful, but characterizing newbies as "beyond help" and "not worth helping" is the sort of toxic behavior that keeps the community small and bitter. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- calrogman · 2015-01-03 10:22 I'm not characterising all newbies as "beyond help" and "not worth helping". I'm characterising *this* newbie as "beyond help" and "not worth helping" and to support my claims, I'd like to direct you to statements this newbie made regarding the INSTALL.macppc file. >Double edit: on my install, I don't get "whole disk" and the INSTALL.macppc says "do it from osx," which I don't have. The INSTALL.macppc file is *very clear* that if you are installing OpenBSD as the only OS on the drive, you do not need to do any prep work from within Mac OS. I subscribe to this crazy notion that somebody who will not read and make an effort to comprehend the documentation made available to them, should be told to read the documentation and not come back until they have. You can call that toxic if you like; I consider it pragmatic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-01-03 21:19 > The INSTALL.macppc file is very clear that if you are installing OpenBSD as the only OS on the drive, you do not need to do any prep work from within Mac OS. > It's also wrong. If you do MBR partitioning, it creates wd0i, then trashes over it with /usr/src in autolabel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- andermetalsh · 2015-01-06 03:28 Mesa is rightly binded to the Xorg base on each release. Maybe, and just maybe, could have Mesa support if the OBSD guys maintained the 7.x libraries. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nanosleep · 2015-01-15 16:55 those are very technical terms you're using there ---------------------------------------------------------------------- josh64 · 2015-03-17 23:03 Hey OP, did you end up finding an appropriate BSD? I run FreeBSD 10 on my beefy G5 but I'm looking at my options for my 12" PowerBook. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- indrora · 2015-03-17 23:08 I ended up using Debian stable, which works wonders. I was able to get OpenBSD 8 working but it wouldn't come up or go down right after X started for me. YMMV. I wrote up [my way of doing it](http://indrora.tumblr.com/post/107259472993/quickly-how-to- install-openbsd-alone-on-a) which worked overall fine.