Advice for a Linux user wanting to try BSD reddit / BSD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aardvark92 · 2010-03-05 15:05 I'm a long-time Fedora Linux user. I recently acquired a spare computer and am interested in installing BSD (probably PC-BSD). Are there any gotchas that could trap someone accustomed to Linux? Do you have any suggestions for making a smooth transition? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dwchandler · 2010-03-05 15:28 A few things to keep in mind: * It's still UNIX-like, so there's nothing *too* different, really. * Startup and system config files will be different, but that's not much different than between Linux distros (like Fedora vs. Gentoo vs. Slackware). * Some command line utilities exist in more traditional UNIX form (different options, etc.) than equivalent GNU tools. No biggie, but be aware. * Manual pages and official documentation will almost always be better than Googling for HOWTO type info. You can go crazy searching for HOWTOs only to later realize the info was in a man page installed on your system. Some suggestions: * Since this is a spare computer and you're in no particular hurry I suggest you install a BSD and get up to speed with it, and then install a different one and do the same. BSDs are often characterized too simply and the reality is bigger than that. I.e., "OpenBSD is for security" doesn't mean it doesn't make a decent desktop machine, and "NetBSD runs everywhere" doesn't mean there's no reason to use it except for rare hardware. PC-BSD might be the best place for you to dip your toe in the water, but try out at least the "Big 3" flavors (Free, Net, Open). * This being a spare computer you might install something and then rarely do anything with it, always something you mean to get to real soon now. Don't do that. Try to use your new install for everything you normally do, only using your main computer for tasks you *need* to get done in a timely fashion but can't yet accomplish on your BSD system. Doing this will shorten your learning curve hugely. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aardvark92 · 2010-03-05 15:38 Thanks for the suggestions. I had originally planned to try FreeBSD, but decided on PC-BSD because I've read so many good reviews of its installer. But I think you're right that I should try several different flavors after I get up to speed. I spent too much time learning Fedora before even looking at a different GNU/Linux, and it made the minor differences hard to cope with. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hahiss · 2010-03-05 15:40 I'm a long-time linux user (many distros and different hardware), and I've spent some time using BSD in the past. On the whole, if you're comfortable with *nixy systems, you should be able to make the transition pretty smoothly. However, there are some differences. One thing I can't stress enough is that you should read the FreeBSD handbook: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/ That will help you understand the big differences between a Linux system and a BSD system, as well as give you the explanation of the guts of the system you're working with. One big thing change from something like Fedora will be the packages and ports systems -- but I think these are pretty easy to learn, and PC-BSD will have its GUI front end for that as well as its particular "pbi" style of packaging. Finally, there's also non-trivial differences between the GNU userland and the BSD userland (and not just the "BSD's userland is developed with its kernel" thing). For example, the BSD userland will have different options: IIRC, it doesn't tend to use the "long" GNU-style options (i.e., it uses "ls -G" rather than "ls --color") and it is common to find that the options are different (e.g., "ls -b" forces printing of non-printable characters in BSD and suppresses listing of backup files in GNU). This can make mean that your scripts and CLI habits need some changing. (If you install GNU ls, this particular example might not be an issue -- but you should find such differences across the entire BSD userland.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eleitl · 2010-03-05 15:40 BSD is quite nice. Both pfSense and FreeNAS are based on it (FreeBSD). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- rainman_104 · 2010-03-05 15:50 >but decided on PC-BSD because I've read so many good reviews of its installer. Well PC-BSD is FreeBSD under the covers and is a good place to start. Once you get used to installing things from the ports tree, you may never want to go back to Linux dependency hell :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aardvark92 · 2010-03-05 16:15 Thanks for that link. It looks like a good reference. Most of the differences don't look like too much trouble, but I may have to retrain my fingers for command line stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aardvark92 · 2010-03-05 16:15 >you may never want to go back to Linux dependency hell :-) Well, that's one reason I want to try BSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2010-03-05 17:58 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- kommissar · 2010-03-05 18:18 One thing I didn't expect was the way that FreeBSD (and probably other BSD's) partition disks. When partitioning a disk, especially one that will be used in a computer where more than just BSD OSes are installed, one usually uses slices. Slices are like regular Linux paritions, and then you create BSD partitions in the slices. It's just another level of abstraction that you may choose to use. So /dev/hda would be /dev/ad0s1 (if your disks are ad*n*). Inside of slice one (s1) you can have partitions like ad0s1a, ad0s1b, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- o0o · 2010-03-05 19:15 You'll want to get familiar with: * /etc * /etc/rc * /etc/rc.d * /usr/local/etc/rc.d Also, forget PC-BSD. Go for the real thing. Also, http://forums.freebsd.org. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- solust · 2010-03-05 20:39 Don't give back? When did they re-license their trees? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aardvark92 · 2010-03-05 20:49 Thanks for that link. So, the main reason I'm looking at PC-BSD is that I've heard it has a more modern, Linux-like installer. But is the FreeBSD installer really any harder to use, or just less graphical? Does it require more technical knowledge than the typical Linux install, or just more attention to detail? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2010-03-05 20:59 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- solust · 2010-03-05 21:07 I guess pf, CARP, OpenSSH, OpenBGPD, OpenSMTPD, hoststated, etc. are worthless. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1esproc · 2010-03-05 21:15 Less graphical. It's not at all intimidating, just take your time. Read the [FreeBSD handbook on installing](http://www.freebsd.org/doc/e n_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-pre.html) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2010-03-05 21:27 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- snark42 · 2010-03-05 21:34 >Does it require more technical knowledge than the typical Linux install Maybe when you're partitioning disks, but overall it's pretty simple, just text/ncurses instead of X-y. This is a test computer, CD's are cheap, just give it a shot. If you can't get it installed (unlikely, especially with a internet connected computer around) try PC-BSD... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- aardvark92 · 2010-03-05 21:45 OK, I think you guys have convinced me to start with FreeBSD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bsdboy · 2010-03-05 21:56 PC-BSD now has a FreeBSD installer included. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bsdboy · 2010-03-05 21:59 Grab a beater computer, grab a [copy of FreeBSD](http://www.freebsd.org/where.html), and start reading the [FreeBSD Handbook](http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/) Play with it for a month or so, and then appreciate the beauty that is FreeBSD. Just make sure you warn your Linux friends that you're making a jump and not to get too pissed at you when you start bashing their crap. :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- solust · 2010-03-06 00:02 Then can you explain how, at least OpenBSD, does not contribute? Your last post contradicts your first. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LuoBoTe00 · 2010-03-06 00:19 Read the handbook. Trust me, it helps. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- idontwanttortfm · 2010-03-06 00:53 Keep in mind that on FreeBSD/PC-BSD, a lot of things that you might expect to be in /whatever might actually be in /usr/local/whatever. For example, Postfix config is in /usr/local/etc/postfix instead of /etc/postfix. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2010-03-06 02:34 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- solust · 2010-03-06 02:35 Which you have yet to list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- o0o · 2010-03-06 02:47 It's not harder, but might take you a few go-round's. If you haven't reinstalled FreeBSD 10 over the course of a sleepless night in the beginning, then you haven't lived ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- o0o · 2010-03-06 02:48 Yay! I forgot, the all important, /etc/rc.conf! Good luck! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hexed · 2010-03-06 02:51 In defense of NetBSD, in order of your links, * Charles' departure was acrimonious no doubt, but largely due to a power struggle (read what he said). The technical failings identified have been addressed. * Your benchmarks are old. Try some of the [latest](http://www.netbsd.org/~ad/5.0/img9.html) * The latter article argues Net sucks because the author didn't install a 64-bit version. It also suggests that, because Free doesn't import code wholesale from Net, they're not sharing. Just because Free doesn't pull back changes (and they've grown apart over the years) doesn't mean Net isn't sharing; it just means they're different. TFA then links back to Charles' rant for good measure. [Edit: clarity] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hemmar · 2010-03-06 03:54 The handbook on freebsd.org is AMAZING. personally i dont see any point to pc-bsd since freebsd does the exact same things except without PBIs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2010-03-06 05:08 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- solust · 2010-03-06 05:10 Yes, and they either applied only to NetBSD or were out of date... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- lteo · 2010-03-06 05:54 My advice: Keep an open mind. A lot of the things you'll notice in BSD will be completely different from Linux. BSD has a long history and many times you'll encounter things that are done in the "BSD way" vs the "Linux way." Don't dismiss those differences simply because they are not the Linux way; there is almost always a solid rationale why things are the way they are in BSD. Though I'm a BSD person, I do try out different Linux distributions from time to time and I do keep in mind that despite being UNIX-like, the Linux distro I'm trying has different goals and a different history, thus the way things are done will not be the same. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- minozake · 2010-03-06 10:18 cp works a little differently, at least in my copy of FreeBSD. I've tried to copy entire directories only to find out they copied the files in the directory to the destination rather than the directory to a destination (i.e. `cp -r /tmp/foo/ /tmp/bar/` copies as if it is `cp -r /tmp/foo/* /tmp/bar/`). Otherwise, for a smooth transition, you need to be fluent in command line up until you get the optional fancy stuff. That's it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2010-03-06 14:03 [deleted] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- neoice · 2010-03-06 14:20 -R ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- mordaunt0 · 2010-03-06 15:13 just remember to install bash :) fuck tcsh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- minozake · 2010-03-06 19:47 Oh, yes. With `-r`. Fixing that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2010-03-07 04:54 You might want to take a look at this: [FreeBSD review and howtos from a Linux user](http://h3g3m0n.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/freebsd-review-and- howtos-from-a-linux-user/) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- buu700 · 2010-03-07 05:05 **post reply** [*TIL that a default install of Ubuntu includes an equivalent to the OS X 'say' command: espeak*](http://www.reddit.com/r /linux/comments/ba5ww/til_that_a_default_install_of_ubuntu_includes_an /) Thanks! I was actually interested in the same information as aardvark92. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- naikon89 · 2010-03-09 21:31 Use the man pages/handbook for everything. Unlike GNU tools, everything is covered in a consistent manner. None of the "see GNU info" bs either. You won't be searching random articles on the net for documentation. Generally speaking, BSD documentation is superb. OpenBSD in particular. Would you prefer BSD ls -F? Display a slash (`/') immediately after each pathname that is a directory, an asterisk (`*') after each that is executable,an at sign (`@') after each symbolic link, an equals sign (`=') after each socket, a percent sign (`%') after each whiteout, and a vertical bar (`|') after each that is a FIFO. Over GNU style? -F, --classify Append indicator (one of */=@|) to entries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2010-03-20 02:23 > Linux dependency hell What dependency hell? I'm a longish time (~8yr+) Debian user, and I've never had to fuck with dependencies. With regard to BSD, go with FreeBSD. I've not used PCBSD but I gather that's the BSD equivalent of Ubuntu and you'll learn more (and more correctly) by going with a more traditional system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [deleted] · 2010-03-20 02:27 You can always run it in a virtual machine as well. Save power.