using the raspberry pico to drive the electronics for a parcel delivery vault. lazarus / 77-Embedded ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-10 04:42 This night I dreamt up something that looks to me just a job for the Pico. The probem I want to solve is, that all the members in my household are trying to make the  Chinese very rich by ordering lots of small and big stuff from the likes of AliBaba and ]"]>Blocked. that means that we miss out on lots of deliveries because we either are not there or asleep. (my wife often runs night shifts and the household adapts to her rithm) The parts list starts like this: - a metal dustbin with cover (painted post office red of course - a metal Z arm to switch he lock, I fabricate that myself if not available. - a relay, or two - possibly stepper motor - A solenoid (Thx, Dave!), latch/lock type (thx ccrause) - a rubber numeric keyboard. (or a couple of buttons, three will do) - a pico, optionally with Wifi kit - a motion detector or light sensor - some custom software to drive that all There is a starters kit for the Pico that contains most of the parts, including a small breadboard and the detectors but not the relay(s) and a stepper motor. The inner workings are very simple: - When the delivery bin is empty the access code are zero's and the bin is open. - When a delivery is made through the bin and the lid closes, the bin locks with a code that only we have. That's where the relays solenoid and the motion or light detection detector comes in. Ideally a possbility to remotely reset the code (through the Wifi module) Now, my problem is that I never worked with the pico to drive hardware like this. So, my question is: Can somebody provide me with: - If possible, schematics to pull this off - recommedation on what type of relay and motor   solenoid to use? Solved. Thx ccrause. I think help with the software development is not really necessary although tips are welcome. If somebody wants to help, the reward is that I will build TWO delivery bins, one for the person that helps me out! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dbannon · 2024-05-10 04:57 See attached, particularly bottom right hand side. Trivial. I think I'd use a solenoid to do the locking, might be simpler than a motor. Davo PS : why not just ask them to leave to parcel on your door step ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-10 05:08 Yes a solenoid is a better option, did not think of that and it is the obvious solution. I adapted the parts list accordingly. The reason for the bin is just that we have bad experiences with deliveries on the doorstep. Although we live in an affluent neighbourhood, theft is an issue, as are certain weather conditions, e.g. if a parcel is packed in cardboard. And we already have security camera's in place. The delivery bin can be secured to the floor or wall next to my front door. (AI image creator at its best: the delivery bin is 80 litres so this would fit) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-10 05:51 Except for the solenoid this link seems to contain all the parts. Must have a look which pins are occupied by the wifi module, though. Any advice? https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/raspberry-pi-pico-w-starter-kit/9300000135 837158/?s2a=&bltgh=j1HSbWUo66xqSiNXrr9Hsg.2_56_57.58.FeatureOptionButt on#productTitle Since solenoids are not expensive the whole project can be build for under $70, 65 euro ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ccrause · 2024-05-10 06:13 Are you planning on using FPC for the programming? Michael Ring's pico-fpcexamples does not include support for the PicoW (see device list). It is probably not too much work to rebuild the latest Pico SDK though.  FPC wifi capability also available via ESP8266 & ESP32. Regarding the locking mechanism, one get various types of electric door latches/locks that may be relevant for this project (basically a solenoid, but specialized for latching/locking). Another idea is to use a simple cheap sliding bolt and drive this with a small servo (requires PWM to position). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-10 06:25 Yes, I indeed want to use FPC and I am capable of adapting the code for the pico if necessary.. The specialized latch/lock is a good idea. Your last remark is pretty much how I dreamt it. I will have a look on where to source a latch/lock solenoid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dbannon · 2024-05-10 08:19 Quote from: ccrause on May 10, 2024, 08:13:46 amAre you planning on using FPC for the programming? Michael Ring's pico-fpcexamples does not include support for the PicoW (see device list). It is probably not too much work to rebuild the latest Pico SDK though.  FPC wifi capability also available via ESP8266 & ESP32. Yep, Michael's excellent model does not cover wifi. I looked at doing so but the newer release of the Pico's C libraries are contain a very closely cross conected mess of modules and in the end, I found it easier to do what I needed using C  Quote from: ccrause on May 10, 2024, 08:13:46 amRegarding the locking mechanism, one get various types of electric door latches/locks that may be relevant for this project (basically a solenoid, but specialized for latching/locking). Another idea is to use a simple cheap sliding bolt and drive this with a small servo (requires PWM to position). Hmm, I initially suggested a solenoid instead of a motor but did not consider a stepper to be honest. I reconsider, a stepper driving a small shaft probably would be easier mechanically. I have not used a stepper with a Pico but have done so, very easily, with an Arduino. Davo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cdbc · 2024-05-10 08:21 Hi Thaddy Nice project, very interesting use of the 'pico', will you keep us posted in this thread? I for one, am intrigued  Happy fiddling...  Regards Benny ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dbannon · 2024-05-10 08:24 Another approach, far, far simpler.  Seeing a plastic box in use, how about a reed switch in not obvious position, you hold a magnet near it, switch closes, it drives the solenoid/motor. Only you know where to hold the magnet, indeed, only you know you have a magnet in your hand. Davo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-10 08:57 The plasic box is merely a suggestion by AI, nothing to do with that! I asked for a metal box, and, yes I got some very retro cast-iron metal boxes too. Would be cool to combine that with a retro phone dialer disk.... (but that is for V2) But it is an option  I also asked on the Raspberry Pi pico forum. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-10 09:05 Quote from: dbannon on May 10, 2024, 10:19:52 amHmm, I initially suggested a solenoid instead of a motor but did not consider a stepper to be honest. I reconsider, a stepper driving a small shaft probably would be easier mechanically. I have not used a stepper with a Pico but have done so, very easily, with an Arduino. Davo So back to my original functional design? (Where the Z-arm closes at both sides using a stepper motor? I am working on the parts list and I think the suggestion from ccrause is a better one if I can source it. BTW, I am cocky enough to pretend I can get the wifi working.  So it is stepper motor vs solenoid and I am not decided. (Just because of lack of experience with hardware, having to design the hardware that is.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-10 09:35 I found this one and it is 5v and cheap. Found cheaper ones, but this looks easy. https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004695149344.html?spm=a2g0o.product list.main.3.b9c72a5G2a5GFF&algo_pvid=64bb2e8b-cf1d-48e3-8f09- 7932d1cdb56d&algo_exp_id=64bb2e8b-cf1d-48e3-8f09-7932d1cdb56d- 1&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21EUR%215.43%213.26%21%21%2141.33%2124.80%21%40211b6 00217153335488141365ef37a%2112000030129346387%21sea%21NL%214880512478% 21&curPageLogUid=U7WqY7sORGaO&utparam- url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A The very cheap ones are hampered by delivery fees, so everything turns out at about 3-4 euro. Any advice? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ccrause · 2024-05-10 09:43 Quote from: Thaddy on May 10, 2024, 11:05:58 amQuote from: dbannon on May 10, 2024, 10:19:52 amHmm, I initially suggested a solenoid instead of a motor but did not consider a stepper to be honest. I reconsider, a stepper driving a small shaft probably would be easier mechanically. I have not used a stepper with a Pico but have done so, very easily, with an Arduino. Davo So back to my original functional design? (Where the Z-arm closes at both sides using a stepper motor? I am working on the parts list and I think the suggestion from ccrause is a better one if I can source it. BTW, I am cocky enough to pretend I can get the wifi working.  So it is stepper motor vs solenoid and I am not decided. (Just because of lack of experience with hardware, having to design the hardware that is.) A stepper motor will be more expensive and more complicated to drive compared to a servo for the same effective torque. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ccrause · 2024-05-10 09:54 Quote from: Thaddy on May 10, 2024, 11:35:57 amI found this one and it is 5v and cheap. Found cheaper ones, but this looks easy. https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004695149344.html?spm=a2g0o.product list.main.3.b9c72a5G2a5GFF&algo_pvid=64bb2e8b-cf1d-48e3-8f09- 7932d1cdb56d&algo_exp_id=64bb2e8b-cf1d-48e3-8f09-7932d1cdb56d- 1&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21EUR%215.43%213.26%21%21%2141.33%2124.80%21%40211b6 00217153335488141365ef37a%2112000030129346387%21sea%21NL%214880512478% 21&curPageLogUid=U7WqY7sORGaO&utparam- url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A The very cheap ones are hampered by delivery fees, so everything turns out at about 3-4 euro. Any advice? The specs show that it requires about 3A @5V, that is quite a lot! And the pullin force is only 8g (gram I suppose?).  Will work, but seems inefficient. Compare this against a SG90 servo that outputs ~1.5kg.cm torque at 5V.  The stall current is about 0.7A. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-10 14:21 I found one that draws 0.8A and ordered that together with the rest of the parts - including for both locking mechanisms that were suggested. I also ordered 10 extra pico's. Now I have to wait... The parts from China have suggested delivery date of May 17, the rest is on 24 hour delivery and they work on Saturdays. Also I have a different idea for the bin: I have some sheet metal lying around and I will see if I can either weld it (my spot welder is broken, though, another thing to investigate) or rivot it together for a prototype. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MiR · 2024-05-12 07:10 Seems I am late to the party… Nice idea, let me know if you need anything to interface the pico. Pico-W is not happening anytime soon but there are cheap ESP32-c3 modules that can be interfaced easily to the pico for WiFi usecases, don‘t know why Rasperry Foundation had to make WiFi that complicated… Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MiR · 2024-05-12 07:46 LILYGO® TTGO T-01C3 ESP32-C3 Development Board WIFI Wireless Bluetooth Module IPEX Antenna For ESP-01 With External Antenna Base https://a.aliexpress.com/_EyAI3Ux ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-12 10:19 OK, ordered 2. Thx, Michael. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dbannon · 2024-05-12 11:40 Quote from: MiR on May 12, 2024, 09:46:51 am LILYGO® TTGO T-01C3 ESP32-C3 Development Board .... Michael, are you suggesting using the LilyGo device, running Arduino software providing the wifi link, then talk to it, from a Pico, using I2c or some such ?  I don't see any data sheet about the LilyGo, just a schematic of the board .... Davo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MiR · 2024-05-12 12:37 This: https://www.espressif.com/en/products/sdks/esp-at/overview Is the documentation for the at commandset, you simply connect your pico over serial line to the esp module and can do https get requests with close to no effort and no load impact on the pico. Also no need for an arduino software in-between. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MiR · 2024-05-12 12:42 Here‘s a minimalistic sample: https://github.com/michael-ring/pico- fpcexamples/tree/picosdk1.5.1/esp_worldtimeapi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MarkMLl · 2024-05-12 13:01 Quote from: MiR on May 12, 2024, 02:37:05 pmThis: https://www.espressif.com/en/products/sdks/esp-at/overview Is the documentation for the at commandset, you simply connect your pico over serial line to the esp module and can do https get requests with close to no effort and no load impact on the pico. Also no need for an arduino software in-between. I've done that using an 8266 and can confirm that it works. The one caveat is that I don't know how many subtly-different variants of the 8266 firmware are floating around, and have never established a definitive repository of rebuildable sourcecode. There's rumours that there are other half-completed implementations, e.g. to make an 8266 look more like a generic network device using the Packet Driver or whatever API. Since we're talking about various devices, I'd throw in that I'm intermittently looking at a RISC-V based "MilkV Duo". This is really a very nice little board in "chewing gum" format for around £5, with a "big" core running Linux and a "little" core running Arduino etc. for realtime control. However it's got Ethernet rather than WiFi, so the same connectivity issues apply. MarkMLl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MiR · 2024-05-12 13:13 I‘d strongly advise against using esp8266 with at commandset when you require https, this can work but is both slow and not very reliable. Modern esp32 chips like the c3 or c6 are a better choice. Building custom at images is pretty straightforward and documented: https://docs.espressif.com/projects/esp-at/en/latest/esp32/Compile_and _Develop/How_to_clone_project_and_compile_it.html https://docs.espressif.com/projects/esp- at/en/latest/esp32/AT_Binary_Lists/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-12 15:20 The ones I order are actually a combination! of a Pico and an ESP32.. I read, for the Pico, but I was too fast, it includes a pico.... Hm, oh, well, it is cheap enough and there is a great instruction video on youtube. These also include a small color screen in one packet. It has a party feature that I never expected: depending on the polarity of the usb-c cable it boots either into the pico or the esp32...Huh? I did not know that was possible, plug in the cable the other way and you have a different boot. I can't wait for these to arrive...  LilyGO T-PicoC3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1GSylUR36Q ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MiR · 2024-05-12 15:45 You mean this board: https://www.lilygo.cc/products/t-pico?_pos=15&_fid=4a36353ca&_ss=c I always wondered how those work and if the esp32 and the rp2040 can run at the same time and only usb is routed to either the one or the other... You will find out soon enough! The display is definitely only connected to the rp2040. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-05-12 16:01 It is this one: https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004164141662.html?aff_platform=true &aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&isdl=y&src=bing&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21EUR%2117.22% 2117.22%21%21%210%21%21%40%2112000031555551638%21ppc%21%21&albch=shopp ing&acnt=135095331&isdl=y&albcp=554602608&albag=1310618964174398&slnk= &trgt=pla- 4585513252134971&plac=&crea=81913738473769&netw=o&device=c&mtctp=e&utm _source=Bing&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=PA_Bing_NL_PC_customlabe l1-20230825&utm_content=customlable1%3D6&utm_term=LilyGO%20T- PicoC3&msclkid=96440b519b3c106d18ca6d117c97653e ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dbannon · 2024-05-13 01:53 Quote from: MiR on May 12, 2024, 02:42:15 pmHere‘s a minimalistic sample: https://github.com/michael-ring/pico- fpcexamples/tree/picosdk1.5.1/esp_worldtimeapi Thanks Michael, yep, esp_at_c looks like great solution, I did not realise there was so much cross over between the ESP32 and Pico world.... And the ESP32, Espressif documentation and approach is vastly better than RasPi's Pico ! Glad to see your development branch appearing on your github site too. Thanks indeed. Davo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MiR · 2024-06-07 11:15 Did you receive your boards? I also got one but I do neither see the com port of the c3 or the rp2040 on my mac.... Today I received this board: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005952730624.html and it seems to work quite well... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-06-07 11:21 Yes, two days ago. Need the weekend to set them up ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MarkMLl · 2024-06-07 11:54 Quote from: MiR on May 12, 2024, 03:13:53 pmI‘d strongly advise against using esp8266 with at commandset when you require https, this can work but is both slow and not very reliable. In my context, it was a development board with connections for a Pico and an 8266 module (i.e. specifically not an ESP32) so basically what I was doing was getting the overall kit to an "as designed" state by adding the optional peripheral. I got it doing quite a lot including running Fuzix, but was hampered slightly by "less than standard" pin assignments for the memory card, console and so on. Hence... Quote from: MiR on June 07, 2024, 01:15:17 pmDid you receive your boards? I also got one but I do neither see the com port of the c3 or the rp2040 on my mac.... Today I received this board: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005952730624.html and it seems to work quite well... Is that actually a Pico as designed (and trademarked) by the RPi Foundation? The thing that bothers me there is the /precise/ behaviour of the WiFi, access to the software-controlled LED and so on. MarkMLl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MiR · 2024-06-07 12:10 The board is something different, it has an rp2040 and for wifi one can use the extra esp32-c3 soldered on the board. Both devices talk to each other over a serial port. From my point of view a much leaner solution than the rp2040w which imho adds a lot of bloat and complexity to the rp2040 code MiR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thaddy · 2024-06-07 12:44 And it has party tricks: either device can be master or slave depending on your mood of plugging in the usb-c powersupply.. I have my red and green markers out of the cupboard to make me remember how to plug in. Will keep you posted about the project. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- avra · 2024-06-07 13:22 MCU can drive only a very limited current on it's pins, and without care you can easily hear a bang or smell a smoke  . You need a driver circuit for high current actuators like solenoids, motors... And driver needs to match an actuator. Also some drivers require 5V logic while most MCUs provide 3.3V. Some MCUs are 5V tolerant on inputs (all inputs can be burnt if not protected properly), but need voltage level convertor to output 5V. You can find lots of drivers on Ali and eBay, and easiest way is to search for . However, you can be sure that it will work with your MCU only after reading datasheets of your actuator and driver (or driver chip) and looking at manufacturer's schematics if available. For a newbie, I would recommend searching the net for some example with schematics exactly for your specific MCU, if possible using some ready to use driver from Ali/eBay, and then purchase exactly that driver model. If you just want mailbox notification, you might use Home Assistant with some RF or WiFi integration (ESP32 I/O is best supported but there are other options). There you use MCU's as a dummy plug-and-play I/O and then do all the logic on pc in your favorite programming language. To do almost the same but without Home Assistant, you can use Firmata firmware for your MCU and then communicate with pc using some pc firmata lib. If I had to choose, I would use ESP32 MQTT server if I have 24/7 power available in mailbox, or ESP32 MQTT client that sleeps and just wakes on event and sends data to local Pi MQTT server if I have to power from a battery. Also, if you want your device to run reliably 24/7, you have to run a watchdog and implement a brownout detection. https://learn.adafruit.com/use-dc-stepper-servo-motor-solenoid- rp2040-pico/solenoids https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mailbox+detector+home+assistant&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mailbox+detector+arduino&ia=web ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MarkMLl · 2024-06-07 14:00 Quote from: MiR on June 07, 2024, 02:10:02 pmThe board is something different, it has an rp2040 and for wifi one can use the extra esp32-c3 soldered on the board. Both devices talk to each other over a serial port. From my point of view a much leaner solution than the rp2040w which imho adds a lot of bloat and complexity to the rp2040 code MiR Also leaves the flashable LED on the expected pin. I've got an RP2040W but haven't invested time into it. When I was sniffing around in the region of Pico + Fuzix + 8266, the potential choices appeared to be /either/ an AT-style interface /or/ Packet Driver... with lots of people leaning towards Packet Driver as an antiquated- if not venerable- standard but not a great deal being done with it. MarkMLl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MarkMLl · 2024-08-06 08:22 Quote from: MarkMLl on June 07, 2024, 04:00:25 pmAlso leaves the flashable LED on the expected pin. I've got an RP2040W but haven't invested time into it. When I was sniffing around in the region of Pico + Fuzix + 8266, the potential choices appeared to be /either/ an AT-style interface /or/ Packet Driver... with lots of people leaning towards Packet Driver as an antiquated- if not venerable- standard but not a great deal being done with it. Just a note to say that I've picked one of these up but haven't invested any time into it yet. As an overview, it appears to be shipped with either minimal or no code on both chips, i.e. it might flash an LED but there is no comms stuff (unlike the way that most 8266s are shipped, i.e. with a minimal AT command set). https://spotpear.com/index/study/detail/id/1101.html appears relevant. Ultimately, I'd like to compare FUZIX on both that and the original Pico project board I've got, and to look at whether it would be possible to put something like a Packet Driver on the ESP32 that an OS might like to use without significant main-chip effort. This https://hackaday.com/2024/05/14/breadboardos-a-command-line- interface-for-the-pico/ looks interesting for the Pico: extends FreeRTOS with a minimal shell etc. MarkMLl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dbannon · 2024-08-06 10:58 Hmm, I have lost track of this thread.  Due the the extra complexity (that Michael mentions) with the 2040W, I got my project operational using C code on the 2040w. You are (or I was) locked into using the whole C stack and even their tool to make a cmake config. And that cmake config is critical. Honestly, worrying for me, I was left feeling I had very little control in the process. https://github.com/davidbannon/SolarHotWater Davo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MarkMLl · 2024-08-06 13:34 Quote from: dbannon on August 06, 2024, 12:58:33 pmHmm, I have lost track of this thread.  Due the the extra complexity (that Michael mentions) with the 2040W, I got my project operational using C code on the 2040w. You are (or I was) locked into using the whole C stack and even their tool to make a cmake config. And that cmake config is critical. Honestly, worrying for me, I was left feeling I had very little control in the process. Yes, I think I remarked when it came out that the -W looked like being a problem because- apart from anything else- the LED had been moved onto the WiFi chip. From our POV, the SpotPear board looks like a better bet. However the fact remains that we are very much in the minority, and there are probably more people entirely happy with the innards of cmake than are prepared to consider FPC etc. as a viable tool for working with the Pico. I fall in between those camps: I'm uncomfortable- due to lack of familiarity- with cmake, but would be even less comfortable trying to discuss the RP2040 architecture with hardcore developers unless using the tools they were familiar with... which regrettably revolve around cmake since the other documented contenders quite simply don't appear to be up to it. As an update, I'd like to make it clear that I very much liked the ease of development that Lazarus+FPC offered on the Pico: my notes show that with a bit of fiddling I was able to get OpenOCD etc. working in the context of a Docker container which offered a very comfortable development/upload/debugging experience. I just feel that it would be a very hard sell to the bulk of the Pico/RP2040 community. MarkMLl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dbannon · 2024-08-08 06:13 Personally, I believe that cmake should be a useful tool in the Obfuscated C Code Contest. The problem is, we have had a couple of very talented people making FPC work with these devices as they come out. But they are appearing too fast.  I saw great opportunities to use a esp32, purchased a couple of esp32c3 only to find that they use a different instruction set (RISC). A whole lot of work ensure but I lost track of where they were up to due to some health issues. I'd love to use Pascal for these projects, I enjoy using Pascal and consider myself moderately competent. My C is very rusty and C++ almost no existing. And the old adage applies, if it compiles with Pascal, it will probably work !  Sigh .... Davo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MarkMLl · 2024-08-08 07:50 Quote from: dbannon on August 08, 2024, 08:13:37 amPersonally, I believe that cmake should be a useful tool in the Obfuscated C Code Contest. The problem is, we have had a couple of very talented people making FPC work with these devices as they come out. But they are appearing too fast.  I saw great opportunities to use a esp32, purchased a couple of esp32c3 only to find that they use a different instruction set (RISC). A whole lot of work ensure but I lost track of where they were up to due to some health issues. Yes, I agree and sympathise respectively. cmake increases the complexity substantially: even when compared with the Arduino build environment. And I consider the -W obfuscation somewhat of a home goal: not being able to inspect and understand exactly what happens when the LED is flashed is a serious flaw. Apart from the price, the major thing that the RP2040/Pico has is the PIO devices. But somebody's already reverse-engineered those to Verilog, and once you're at that stage the next obvious question is how easy it would be to systematically convert an I/O device specification (e.g. for a special purpose serialiser etc.) to Verilog which some back-of-an-envelope sums suggest would save an order of magnitude of gates. At that point what we need is for somebody- almost certainly in China- to bring out a cheap "stick of gum" board with a RISC-V and a small FPGA. I've played with the Sipeed Tang Nano FPGA and been impressed: the tools did require registration (hence at some point might be revoked) but you got both Verilog and VHDL and with a little bit of digging can work out how the special-block functionalities are being defined https://github.com/MarkMLl/tang_nano_as_shipped All in all, an enjoyable experience (and no cmake stuff). I've played with some of the cheap WCH RISC-V boards which are broadly Arduino- or Pico-class and been impressed. What's more the manufacturer actually responded to tech questions, has made the debugging stream format public, and generally appears to care about "engaging with the community". It was Eclipse-based, but was by far the best Eclipse bundle I've come across. Most recently, I've been playing with a Milk-V Duo: two RISC-V cores (one Linux, one Arduino-class) plus an 8051 controlling a watchdog etc., plus extra stuff for image classification that I've not played with. I'm not saying it was 100% troublefree, but the level of pain was bearable. Having onboard WiFi is a big thing. But so it good documentation and an overall "open" design philosophy, and while it is obvious that a substantial proportion of the community is happy with cmake one has to ask how many of those are actually building up projects from scratch rather than copying of slightly-modifying existing work. MarkMLl p.s. Working notes available on any of the devices I've mentioned above, although the only one that I've used with FPC yet is the Pico. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MarkMLl · 2024-08-08 18:12 Quote from: MarkMLl on August 08, 2024, 09:50:18 amI've played with some of the cheap WCH RISC-V boards which are broadly Arduino- or Pico-class and been impressed. What's more the manufacturer actually responded to tech questions, has made the debugging stream format public, and generally appears to care about "engaging with the community". It was Eclipse-based, but was by far the best Eclipse bundle I've come across. Most recently, I've been playing with a Milk-V Duo: two RISC-V cores (one Linux, one Arduino-class) plus an 8051 controlling a watchdog etc., plus extra stuff for image classification that I've not played with. I'm not saying it was 100% troublefree, but the level of pain was bearable. Geoff Geerling at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXF_lVwA8A4 reports that there is a new Pico2 using an RP2050 chip which can be switched between 2x ARM or 2x RISC-V cores, plus 3x PIOs. Other details scarce so far. I will definitely not be putting time into this in the short term, since I want to continue exercising the Milk-V and RP2040+ESP32 boards, but I consider one significant question to be what happens to the debug pins: do they always use the same "PicoProbe" protocol, or do they switch between ARM and RISC-V modes? MarkMLl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MiR · 2024-08-08 18:28 https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/raspberry-pi-pico-2-our- new-5-microcontroller-board-on-sale-now/ looks nice... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MarkMLl · 2024-08-08 18:36 Yes, but to put things into context: a former employer had 8051-based telemetry hung off a POTS 'phone line (and fully approved). My recollection is that he claimed to have got the quiescent draw down to 20 nA, which is impressive even when one considers that it was Frankensteined into life by an incoming ring and had no timer- or event-controlled outgoing call capability. Good old 1980s technology. MarkMLl