Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position lazarus / 6-IDE-CodeTools ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gald · 2022-01-05 10:26 Project Inspector: 1- Lazarus Main Window (left) has very small icons, even small than Delphi (by 2 pixels I guess) and it's ok. But the Project Inspector Window, Has very BIG icons for no reason. In Linux, the difference is even more. 2- Add, Remove, Options and Help don't even need captions. 3- This big "Help" button is completely useless. 4- Open File button can be accessed by double click or left-click menu. 5- Option on left click menu to show the file/project in Explorer/Directory, by opening Windows Explorer, Nautilus, etc. 6- I understand that Lazarus needs to save files on lowercase names, but if the Source Editor can use the real name, the same applies to the TreeView. Why not put in the TreeView the name that is in the first line of the file (unit #GetThisName / program #GetThisName)? Components Window: 7- A way to close these tabs. E.g. if I want to close "List" and "Inheritance",  only "Palette" is open, but with no Tabs in this Window, resulting in more space. 8- Autocollapse group of components when opening another. If someone will open another component group, is because this person will use a component that is not in the previews group. So, auto-close is the better solution than getting a big scrollbar to search the "^" symbol and close it manually. 9- The footer with only the CheckBox "Keep open" can be at the top as a small icon side by side to the mouse (Selection Tool) or even with the filter button. No space? Read the 9 below. 10-  The text "Find" on the left of the TEdit "(Filter)" is useless, it can be removed once the Default text of TEdit says everything, resulting in more space. 11- The filter can be clear automatically on collapse/expand components group. Ps: Be careful, the embarcadero's i don't like guy can be there! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2022-01-05 12:39 Quote from: Gald on January 05, 2022, 11:26:06 am2- Add, Remove, Options and Help don't even need captions. IMHO, that needs to be adjusted on a larger scale. Currently some toolbars in the IDE have captions. Others are icon only. There should be a global setting to enable/disable captions on toolbars (icon, text or both). Maybe the "main bar" - "coolbar", or the "editor toolbar" (if package is installed) can have their own settings. But all other toolbars should follow. As for "mixed captions" (Within a single toolbar, some buttons with and others without): I don't like the idea. (but let's see what others think). So of course, buttons with no icon will always have a caption... Quote3- This big "Help" button is completely useless. Why? It seems to work here. I have not checked if the help page needs updating, but that could be fixed. If desired, someone could implement and submit a merge-request (or patch) for offline help. Quote4- Open File button can be accessed by double click or left-click menu. What exactly is the issue? What should happen? Besides that "double-click" does not show the "button" (actually context menu). It opens the file directly. But that is intended. Quote5- Option on left click menu to show the file/project in Explorer/Directory, by opening Windows Explorer, Nautilus, etc. Nice idea. IHMO: Merge-Request / Patches are welcome. Quote6- I understand that Lazarus needs to save files on lowercase names, but if the Source Editor can use the real name, the same applies to the TreeView. Why not put in the TreeView the name that is in the first line of the file (unit #GetThisName / program #GetThisName)? Yes, well not sure. Files can be in (sub-)directories. Then the (relative) path is show in the treeview. So this is the filename (It also has the file extension), not the UnitName. Though I do see the appeal of showing the UnitName. Or both... Not sure how to solve, or what others may find acceptable. There are many possible ways   incl/unitname.pp   unitname.pp (incl/)   UnitName (incl/unitname.pp) Quote9- The footer with only the CheckBox "Keep open" can be at the top as a small icon side by side to the mouse (Selection Tool) or even with the filter button. No space? Read the 9 below. 10-  The text "Find" on the left of the TEdit "(Filter)" is useless, it can be removed once the Default text of TEdit says everything, resulting in more space. IHMO: Merge-Request / Patches are welcome. Not sure about your other ideas... Probably need to be optional. In my experience there are always people who like the current way (or at least like the current way better...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PascalDragon · 2022-01-05 12:57 Quote from: Gald on January 05, 2022, 11:26:06 am6- I understand that Lazarus needs to save files on lowercase names, but if the Source Editor can use the real name, the same applies to the TreeView. Why not put in the TreeView the name that is in the first line of the file (unit #GetThisName / program #GetThisName)? Two points: The tree vie  shows the files, and not only the units belonging to the project, thus it makes no sense to make an exception for Pascal units (not to mention that using the right compiler switch the name of a unit can be different from the filename (aside from casing))Your suggestion of using the first line is too simplistic: many units have a license header at the top and the unit name can also be in an include file (yes, there exist units that do that) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gald · 2022-01-05 16:37 Quote from: PascalDragon on January 05, 2022, 01:57:21 pmTwo points: I see... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dsiders · 2022-01-05 17:46 Quote from: Martin_fr on January 05, 2022, 01:39:47 pmQuote3- This big "Help" button is completely useless. Why? It seems to work here. I have not checked if the help page needs updating, but that could be fixed. If desired, someone could implement and submit a merge-request (or patch) for offline help. I just tried it on 2.0.12, 2.2.0RC2, and main (nee trunk). For Windows, the Help button does nothing in all 3 versions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wp · 2022-01-05 17:50 Quote from: Martin_fr on January 05, 2022, 01:39:47 pmProbably need to be optional. In my experience there are always people who like the current way (or at least like the current way better...) Absolutely. Minimalistic layouts as proposed can be extremely frustrating... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2022-01-05 17:58 Quote from: dsiders on January 05, 2022, 06:46:10 pmQuote from: Martin_fr on January 05, 2022, 01:39:47 pmQuote3- This big "Help" button is completely useless. Why? It seems to work here. I have not checked if the help page needs updating, but that could be fixed. If desired, someone could implement and submit a merge-request (or patch) for offline help. I just tried it on 2.0.12, 2.2.0RC2, and main (nee trunk). For Windows, the Help button does nothing in all 3 versions. Both my "git main" and the official Release 2.2 (via installer from sourceforge) open a browser. To be sure: This is about the "help" toolbutton in the "project inspector". There are some configurations for the help system (I am not familiar with them, so can't guess which could be involved). If you temporarily remove your primary-conf-dir (to get a fresh config / my 2.2 had a fresh conf) and then try again? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dsiders · 2022-01-05 18:39 Quote from: Martin_fr on January 05, 2022, 06:58:59 pmBoth my "git main" and the official Release 2.2 (via installer from sourceforge) open a browser. To be sure: This is about the "help" toolbutton in the "project inspector". Yes, using the Project Inspector. Quote from: Martin_fr on January 05, 2022, 06:58:59 pmThere are some configurations for the help system (I am not familiar with them, so can't guess which could be involved). If you temporarily remove your primary-conf-dir (to get a fresh config / my 2.2 had a fresh conf) and then try again? I had not tested with 2.2 because I did not know the files were publicly available. If it is a PCP issue, it is the same issue for 3 different PCP environments. I'll get the release files and try later this evening. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gald · 2022-01-05 18:50 About the Help button, is because there is another help on MainMenu. Look to the image related below. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dsiders · 2022-01-05 18:55 Quote from: dsiders on January 05, 2022, 07:39:51 pmQuote from: Martin_fr on January 05, 2022, 06:58:59 pmBoth my "git main" and the official Release 2.2 (via installer from sourceforge) open a browser. To be sure: This is about the "help" toolbutton in the "project inspector". Yes, using the Project Inspector. Quote from: Martin_fr on January 05, 2022, 06:58:59 pmThere are some configurations for the help system (I am not familiar with them, so can't guess which could be involved). If you temporarily remove your primary-conf-dir (to get a fresh config / my 2.2 had a fresh conf) and then try again? I had not tested with 2.2 because I did not know the files were publicly available. If it is a PCP issue, it is the same issue for 3 different PCP environments. I'll get the 2.2.0 release files and try later this evening. The files cannot be downloaded (yet) from SourceForge. It shows a file but it cannot be downloaded. I tried the 64-bit installer. In addition, the readme file under 2.2.0 says it is a "Release Candidate". I'll try again later. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gald · 2022-01-05 19:05 Quote from: wp on January 05, 2022, 06:50:17 pmAbsolutely. Minimalistic layouts as proposed can be extremely frustrating... I agree with you, but in this particular case, it does not apply. Look, certain icons are Universal! Minus icon, means minus/remove in America, Africa, North Korea, and the rest of the World. Minus, Plus/Add, ? (Help) and Tools/Gear. Both, a 3yo child and a 90yo great-grandfather know the meaning of these buttons. Precisely, a programmer you do too! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2022-01-05 19:42 Quote from: Gald on January 05, 2022, 07:50:01 pmAbout the Help button, is because there is another help on MainMenu. Look to the image related below. But the help button (if working) goes directly to: https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Project_Inspector So this is context sensitive. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2022-01-05 19:48 Quote from: dsiders on January 05, 2022, 07:55:15 pmThe files cannot be downloaded (yet) from SourceForge. It shows a file but it cannot be downloaded. I tried the 64-bit installer. In addition, the readme file under 2.2.0 says it is a "Release Candidate". Fixed the Readme. Sourceforge sometimes takes a bit of time before the links work. Just try again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2022-01-05 20:01 Quote from: Gald on January 05, 2022, 08:05:08 pmMinus icon, means minus/remove in America, Africa, North Korea, and the rest of the World. - Of course there is the minus in the source-editor to fold code. The code isn't actually removed. - Also having text, means extra space. In case your mouse motion isn't that smooth. - And if other Buttons have the text, buttons without text will have that odd empty space beneath them. (Because the height of the toolbar, is determined by the tallest button) - Not everyone has perfect vision. While the IDE sadly lacks accessibility in many places, this in no reason to further reduce it. People relaying on a screen reader may benefit from the text. .... Also some of us grew up in front of a 40x25 screen. Not having text just makes us melancholic. As I said an option would be ok, if contributed. And if you don't need text, switch it off for all buttons (for rare cases where you would be lost, there still will be the hint) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gald · 2022-01-05 20:25 Quote from: Martin_fr on January 05, 2022, 08:42:29 pmBut the help button (if working) goes directly to: https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Project_Inspector So this is context-sensitive. What about these? https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Object_Inspector https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Component_Palette https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/source_code_editor There are no big buttons to these ones. Users may feel insecure, or not? But now, think with me: Sort Files Alphabetically and Show Directory Hierarchy aren't the kind of buttons that people are used to it. Right? While EVERYBODY knows what an Options button is. Thinking on accessibility way, these buttons don't have captions, but the button that doesn't need has one! But let's get even more further: How many people have trouble with the fact that the Show Directory Hierarchy button doesn't have a caption? It's probably a number close to ZERO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2022-01-05 21:06 Ok, consistency is a different matter. For OI the F1 key works. The other 2 links aren't "help" pages (on IDE_Window:_ in the url). But you are right, they must be added at once ... not But jokes aside, I am still not convinced the help buttons are a bad idea. It is obviously bad that they do not work (and do not even give feedback that something went wrong). However, in this case, at least due to the buttons, it was found that there is an issue. And worse, while for me the buttons work, the F1 key does not (and I  am pretty sure it should...) Besides (assuming they would work) what is the harm? If this is about saving a few pixel (and I do myself squeeze every pixel out of my setup), then again => if we did have that option to make it icon only, then it would merely take a few pixels horizontally. And with icons only, if you want to be able to read the filename, the toolbar will have superfluous horizontal space.  (As for horizontal space, the toolbar exists anyway, and with icons only would not wrap - assuming the filenames should be readable). For the "package window", which has more buttons, help could move into the "more" dropdown, and again space would not be the issue. So then the issue, if it is saving space, is the missing icons-only option - one option for all windows. (still awaiting patches) Back to joking.... Please apply the below patch, and F1 should work for the component palette (in the main-IDE-bar). Though the wiki page needs to be created, under the new url. Code: Diff  [Select][+][-]window.onload = function(){var x1 = document.getElementById("main_content_section"); if (x1) { var x = document.getElementsByClassName("geshi");for (var i = 0; i diff --git a/docs/IDEWindowHelpTree.xml b/docs/IDEWindowHelpTree.xmlindex d302508ef8..7488efcfde 100644--- a/docs/IDEWindowHelpTree.xml+++ b/docs/IDEWindowHelpTree.xml@@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ -+           @@ -210,4 +210,7 @@         +  +    +    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2022-01-05 21:11 Just to say, you have some good points in your original post. Some may need to be adapted (eg have an option added). But we shouldn't loose them in the discussion about just one item. As for the "help" button. I state merely my opinion. Others, including other team members, may have a different view. It's a matter if they read it, and if they have the time to take an interest in this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gald · 2022-01-06 03:29 @Martin_fr Thanks for your patience! Each comment is getting more harder for me to describe these things in English. Just to explain my preview point, if you see my desktop screenshot on Linux, you'll understand what the "help" button is doing to the interface. But like you said, it's only an idea. Now you guys can upgrade it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2022-01-06 09:33 Quote from: Gald on January 06, 2022, 04:29:02 amEach comment is getting more harder for me to describe these things in English. Just to explain my preview point, if you see my desktop screenshot on Linux, you'll understand what the "help" button is doing to the interface. Well... 1) I am not saying it can't be done. I just say, personally I would keep it. If others in the dev-team agree with you, well ok... 2) Yes, with the text it can add too much to the width, and then it wraps. But again. The choice is a- do nothing c- remove help c- add global options, to show: text only, icon only, both d- don't wrap, move overflow to "drop down" (like toolbars in Libre- Office) "b" will fix it for you => but if you have a "package window", then the toolbar may still wrap. "c" will also make the toolbar in a "package window" less wide. So "b" may solve more problems. "d" will also work for "package window" too. So "b" is fixing only a single window, "c" and "d" fix more. QuoteNow you guys can upgrade it. Ah, well, oh, .... why "you guys"? Quote from: Gald on January 05, 2022, 11:26:06 am10-  The text "Find" on the left of the TEdit "(Filter)" is useless, it can be removed once the Default text of TEdit says everything, resulting in more space. If you have used the IDE for more than a week, then I will say you definitely can do that yourself. - Install Lazarus 2.2 (or "git main" if you are good with git) - The project is "ide/lazarus.lpi" - The Form is in the "ide" folder - You know how to edit a form. - The IDE can be build via the "Tools" menu. If you know "git" => create a merge request. If you do not know "git", or you don't install Lazarus via git => Create a patch (google) Submit the patch, and tell me. And the "find" text will be gone. Quote from: Gald on January 05, 2022, 11:26:06 am9- The footer with only the CheckBox "Keep open" can be at the top as a small icon side by side to the mouse (Selection Tool) or even with the filter button. No space? Read the 9 below. If we can find a good icon (eg a "pin"), with a license we can use (e.g. the famfam icons / See menu: Help > About > Acknowledgments), then that is something you can do yourself too (and submit). The checkbox can become a toggle-toolbar-button. But there are a few steps, to get the icon, get the icon in all required sizes (IIRC 16, 24 and 32 pixel, but I need to check that). And then a few other things, but I would be willing to help / guide you. ===> Only, on this change: What about the "use" button? It would still be there, still require the space. And IMHO, it belongs at the bottom... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- wp · 2022-01-06 10:05 It already has been said, and I only want to confirm: Since some toolbuttons can become very wide with captions, in particular when translated to other languages, there should be a checkbox in the IDE options, maybe on page "General", saying "Show toolbar captions", and "somebody" should go through all IDE forms and property/component editors and adjust the toolbars to follow this setting (maybe with the exception of the two toolbars in the main form which are well-familiar without captions - I don't know...) Do not remove the help button and some other redundant buttons. Pressing F1 is not so well-known as you think. Likewise, being able to activate a list item by a double-click is quite standard, but not always, and a user-interface having a button "Use" is much clearer to somebody who does not use this feature on every day. In the Project inspector I do not like to move the two rows into a single row because the the form becomes too wide again - I prefer to have the Project inspector as a narrow stripe right to the editor. And even if this would be done, the "Add"/"Remove" buttons must be at the left, all the component editors have these buttons at the left and having them somewhere else is inconsistent. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JuhaManninen · 2022-01-06 13:25 Quote from: wp on January 06, 2022, 11:05:20 am... there should be a checkbox in the IDE options, maybe on page "General", saying "Show toolbar captions", and "somebody" should go through all IDE forms and property/component editors and adjust the toolbars to follow this setting +1 BTW, there already is a setting for 'Prefer double-click over single- click'. Currently it has an effect only in 3 windows. Maybe it should be supported in more windows.