Anyone else missing Windows Mobile? lazarus / 35-Windows CE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hinst · 2014-01-09 11:28 Especially Windows Mobile 6.5 ... What is happening to this world people... I am disappointed. Why did Microsoft have to drop Windows Mobile and switch to Windows Phone? I mean, I understand why, I can see the point, but I am really missing Windows Mobile. It was great. Not only it was perfect for uses accustomed to desktop Windows because it was very similar to it (far more similar then the new Windows Phone); but it also was developer- friendly; we even could use FPC to build Windows Mobile apps and it was infinitely better than the current state of FPC support for Android. Windows Mobile could run native applications with no problem unlike Android which runs everything in JVM while Windows Phone 8 runs everything in .net CLR. 0ne of the reasons why I like Windows Moblie is that it is very close to Windows for desktop. It had similar set of dynamic libraries, similar set of Windows API functions. And I think that it is also the primary reason why Free Pascal compiler support for Windows Mobile target was decent. Nothing to be compared to currently available Android target, like I said. Now it looks like Microsoft wants to turn Windows desktop into cr@p as well. Oh, and Ubuntu linux too. Remember Ubuntu Unity? Am I getting old already? I still think that Windows Mobile is perfect for phones. It could be optimised to run on modern phones with large touch screens. I think it would be also a fairly easy task to make it run on multicore processors. And it would run pretty d@mn fast. Now we are struggling trying to build applications with FPC for Android, a thing which should not even exist ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Leledumbo · 2014-01-09 11:55 You should ask M$ for that. M$ has a tendency of dropping its own tools, you can find a lot of cases on the net. The users, will then have to learn another "technology", which might be dropped someday in the future. That's one of the reason why I hate them. Linux distro is not only Ubuntu, and desktop environment is not only Unity. Feel free to choose another if you don't like one. Not everybody likes KDE, but I do, and I think it's the best DE ever until now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CM630 · 2014-01-09 12:20 Let Nokia rest in peace. I don't see much reason in developing a separate OS for phones, since they are more powerful than my desktop PC, especially when Windows phones are not selling well. Quote from: hinst on January 09, 2014, 12:28:54 pm Now it looks like Microsoft wants to turn Windows desktop into cr@p as well.I am quite sure that in our part of the world Windows XP is probably the most widely used OS. The time of Vista never came, though NT 7 did a little better. By the way, M$ killed VB many years ago and yet I use one VB6 app (pdf creator) and one .NET app (CD Burner XP). I think many C developers neglect .NET. Anyway, why do you worry about Win 8? Don't Lazarus apps work on it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hinst · 2014-01-09 12:42 Quote from: Leledumbo on January 09, 2014, 12:55:49 pmNot everybody likes KDE, but I do, and I think it's the best DE ever until now. What's good about KDE is that it looks like someone is still developing desktop environment for professionals, not for housewifes. KDE is cool and easy enough to use. although sometimes is hard to configure By the way, remember what Windows phones were called in the past? They were called Pocket PCs. Like Personal Computers. Now we don't have pocket personal computers anymore, we have Smart Phones. And it looks like Microsoft wants us to have Desktop Smart Phones too Quote from: paskal on January 09, 2014, 01:20:38 pmAnyway, why do you worry about Win 8? Don't Lazarus apps work on it? I mostly worry about Windows Phone 8, not regular Windows 8. While lazarus apps worked well on Windows Mobile, they certainly do not work on Windows Phone 7 and later because Microsoft made it incompatible with 6.5 and earlier versions. FPC supported Windows Mobile much better than it supports Android now; it was usable; while FPC does not support Windows Phone at all If only WinMo was still around; it could affect FPC community in a rather positive way. We could say that we have readily available solution for developing mobile applications; while FPC for Android is far from readily available & usable & stable; well you got it ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BigChimp · 2014-01-09 12:52 I hope Windows Phone just dies. Like it or not, this leaves Android as the current mainstream platform, together with iOS. There's various "more real Linux" (than Android at least) Linux initiatives around for phones but I doubt they'll get much uptake, especially initially. Bottom line: I suspect FPC/Lazarus can afford to ignore Win Phone and focus on Android/IOS. I do agree that Laz+WinCE was much more intergrated than Laz+Android, but there's a big amount of interest and activity in the Laz community aimed at getting better Android support. (All this speaking as a hobbyist. Still haven't written a single smart phone application except - IIRC - a cross compiler example for Nokia N9). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- taazz · 2014-01-09 13:38 to put it simple, I hate everything java, android included. I dislike .NET but i prefer it over java although it has similar problems (memory hog and slow in GUI reactions) it is a bit snappier than java. If it was up to me I would go for tizen https://www.tizen.org/ and with names like https://www.tizenassociation.org/members/ supporting it I think, if managed correctly, it can dominate the mobile market and it will be easier to support as a platform from java (hptuee). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dgaspary · 2014-01-09 13:58 As a friend of mine used to say: .net is impressive, as java it abstracts all platforms. All platforms starting with "Windows" in the name. No, mono is not .net. Microsoft not supporting .net on Linux, the main OS of the Cloud, is a good hint to not trust them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zariq · 2014-01-09 14:18 I have been using using a wm6 phone for a few years now, was a gift so don't want to throw it away, and it's not very good. The only reasons for this thread are nostalgia and because we are not able to develop for the newer phones as we were able to for windows mobile. What would wm be like if ios and android hadn't arrived? Still rubbish I'm guessing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hinst · 2014-01-09 16:48 Quote from: zariq on January 09, 2014, 03:18:36 pm...and it's not very good I don't see how it wasn't good. I don't know what particular problems you experienced, but I have a huge list of Android flaws... and also a huge list of iOS flaws which Windows Mobile never had, that it makes it look perfect in comparison to these three monstrosities which serve one purpose: making money. I also think that some problems of older phones running Windows Mobile were not caused by Windows Mobile, but rather by outdated (by today's standards) hardware. For example, my older phone had small resistive touchscreen, therefore it wasn't very responsive; I had to apply considerable pressure on it; but if this phone had larger capacitive touchscreen then it would be entirely different story. I can't blame Windows Mobile for this. People often remember problems of older phones and tend to associate these problems with Windows Mobile. But most of these problems are not related to Windows Mobile at all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- zariq · 2014-01-09 17:49 You can't blame apple and google for trying to make money, that's what they are there for. Microsoft wasn't likely giving wm away free to the phone manufacturers. I remember reading somewhere they were charging the oem's £20 per licence. I can only speak from my experience with wm6, so I don't know what was different in the later versions, but my device is unusable without a stylus. The reason iphones and adroid are so popular is the user interface.  If all these modern phones were running wm6 or earlier, there wouldn't be as many  people buying them. If they did make it more finger friendly after wm6, then it was only because they were forced into it. Look at internet explorer, they didn't do anything with it for years until people started jumping to firefox or others. What happened to them is what usually happens to companies who are happy for things to stay as they are, or are not looking over therir shoulder. If any one knows how to select multiple files in the stock file explorer I would be very grateful. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CM630 · 2014-01-10 06:38 I miss Visual Basic. It has a nice ordered IDE and a debug window, debugger says "Array index exceeded" when the array index is exceeded, Showmsg (i) does not complain because i is an integer, etc. Well, I now I use Lazarus. It is free. If I happened to have the skills I could improve it. If someone decides to change something in a way I dislike I can use the old one. No one can kill it like VB6 got killed. I have never seen Android, but I could buy a tablet with it for 50 euro (the cheapest Win phone is 150 euro) and many children here have these. No matter how worse, Android is more popular that Windows Mobile have ever and will ever be. And as Android goes more popular, Lazarus support will increase. There is one main and important reason why there are not much laptops/desktops with Android or other *nixes- LibreOffice sucks. I hope that will change one day, but don't believe it much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- hinst · 2014-01-10 10:25 Quote from: zariq on January 09, 2014, 06:49:30 pm... If any one knows how to select multiple files in the stock file explorer I would be very grateful. ... The funny thing is that both iOS and Android do NOT have stock file explorer. So does that mean they don't have this problem? No program = no problem, huh? In my opinion, not providing user with such basic tool as file explorer is technological crime. I can imagine the developers from Google were like "Oh, iPhone doesn't have file explorer? Perhaps it is okay for us not to include it in our phones as well". Quote from: paskal on January 10, 2014, 07:38:46 am... No matter how worse, Android is more popular that Windows Mobile have ever and will ever be. ... And that is exactly my point. Android is popular. But no matter how popular it is or will ever be it is cr@p. All IT professionals should feel ashamed for what happened to mobiles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bambamns · 2014-01-10 12:04 Hi , AFAIK big manufacturers like Motorola still use Windows CE 6.5 and they will use it on business HH devices. http://www.motorolasolutions.com/XU- EN/Business+Product+and+Services/Mobile+Computers/Handheld+Computers There is a lot of business applications built for Windows Mobile in use for Retail POS and WMS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BigChimp · 2014-01-10 12:37 Yep, the wikipedia article on WM mentions it is still sold to OEMs etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CM630 · 2014-01-10 13:30 As far as I know, Motorola is now owned by Google, so that thing with WM won't last much longer. On the other hand Google Phones are made by LG, maybe all that is left of Motorola is the brand name? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dgaspary · 2014-01-10 13:42 Quote from: hinst on January 10, 2014, 11:25:48 amThe funny thing is that both iOS and Android do NOT have stock file explorer. So does that mean they don't have this problem? No program = no problem, huh? In my opinion, not providing user with such basic tool as file explorer is technological crime. I can imagine the developers from Google were like "Oh, iPhone doesn't have file explorer? Perhaps it is okay for us not to include it in our phones as well". No, it's kind a trend, to hide the system, even the user files, protect the user from himself. Even in desktop it seems to be a new trend. To replace (or to prioritize at least) searching over file browsing. I don't like it too. Quote from: hinstAndroid is popular. But no matter how popular it is or will ever be it is cr@p. All IT professionals should feel ashamed for what happened to mobiles Your opinion seems to be very passionate. Between Ios and android, I choose Android. Not a big fan, but I don't see a reason to all this hatred. And a lot of people really love Android/iOS. It's not just a matter of lack of alternatives. And I believe that your passion for Windows mobile is rare. Before Ios and android I had a nokla with symbian, looking to buy a new device I asked some *really* funs of mobile technology and microsoft and all of them today use Ios or android without missing Windows Mobile. They classify the OS "good at time". Anyway, I hope(but find hard to happens) some of the Open Source Linux alternatives to become commercially viable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Leledumbo · 2014-01-11 04:38 QuoteThe funny thing is that both iOS and Android do NOT have stock file explorer. So does that mean they don't have this problem? No program = no problem, huh? In my opinion, not providing user with such basic tool as file explorer is technological crime. I can imagine the developers from Google were like "Oh, iPhone doesn't have file explorer? Perhaps it is okay for us not to include it in our phones as well".I don't know the actual reason, but IMO it's customization that speaks. No basic file explorer but there are a lot of them on the market. However, instead of file explorer, I'm more unhappy due to absence of terminal app. Google doesn't seem to see iPhone as base of their decision at all, only MIUI ROM developers do. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- jarto · 2014-01-11 08:22 If you guys want to develop mobile applications with Pascal, Smart Mobile Studio is the way to go. It's a Delphi- or Lazarus-like RAD, which compiles Pascal to html5/javascript -applications. They can be run on any device, which has a decent web browser. You can even make native applications for iOS, Android, WP7, WP8, Windows8, Blackberry, Symbian etc. by packaging the html5/js -application with Adobe's PhoneGap. It spits out the needed apk, ipk etc. Phonegap brings a set of apis, which let you send push notifications, access the camera etc. I realize that using html5/js is not as native as many would hope, but it's a great way of developing in a world where every phone has it's own development platform, own programming language and a set of restrictions on what executables can be run on the device. So far I've tested iOS and Android and this all works beautifully. Phonegap builds my code for every platform without errors but I haven't tested any of the other platforms yet. A public beta of Smart is available here: http://smartmobilestudio.com/2013/12/ Phonegap can be found here: https://build.phonegap.com/ Even if you have no plans to buy Smart, do give it a try. It's a really interesting idea. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Graeme · 2014-01-11 10:51 Quote from: jarto on January 11, 2014, 09:22:47 amIf you guys want to develop mobile applications with Pascal, Smart Mobile Studio is the way to go. It's a Delphi- or Lazarus-like RAD, which compiles Pascal to html5/javascript -applications. Just thought I would mention that Michael van Canneyt (FPC core developer) is currently working on this exact feature for Free Pascal. He is taking some time off his day-to- day work, to work on this feature full-time.