GUI Improvements lazarus / 10-Designer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-11 17:20 Hello people, I am developing a graphical program but I'm not pleased with the UI. I'd like it to look better, more modern, you know. Any UI artists out here, perhaps you could give me some advice on how to make it look better? Here's a picture: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JD · 2011-04-11 17:28 From your "software's" sourceforge site http://sourceforge.net/projects/floody?utm_source=feedburner&utm_mediu m=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sourceforge%2Fexport%2Frss2_sfnewprojects+ %28Sourceforge%3A+New+Projects%29 Code: [Select]This is a piece of software that connects to a user- defined host with TCP, and on command sends a specified amount of data rapidly to "flood" the host. Disclaimer: I take no responsibilty in any malicious attacks this tool may be used for. With software built for that purpose, I wouldn't worry too much about the GUI if I were you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-11 17:30 Quote from: JD on April 11, 2011, 07:28:04 pmFrom your "software's" sourceforge site http://sourceforge.net/projects/floody?utm_source=feedburner&utm_mediu m=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sourceforge%2Fexport%2Frss2_sfnewprojects+ %28Sourceforge%3A+New+Projects%29 Code: [Select]This is a piece of software that connects to a user- defined host with TCP, and on command sends a specified amount of data rapidly to "flood" the host. Disclaimer: I take no responsibilty in any malicious attacks this tool may be used for. With software built for that purpose, I wouldn't worry too much about the GUI if I were you.  As in, "This software is so illegal that it's going to be removed pronto" or "This software does its' job so awesomely that it doesn't need a good GUI" or "That's a terrible idea, GTFO"? But anyway, it's for one of those underground ethical hackers communities , and for my friends at school who enjoy sending a bunch of cracp to random websites, so don't be too judgemental ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JD · 2011-04-11 18:09 @Jishaxe Sorry but you got it all wrong. I wasn't being judgmental. I believe that such software should push effectiveness over a pretty face. I personally would have written a command line program that is extremely fast but then again it is a matter of taste. If I could give you some advice on the GUI, it would be to stick to default system colors. That way, it looks native across all platforms. If you want to add theming support to it, that's fine. Make it an additional option but not the default option. The simplest most intuitive GUI's are the best! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ringo · 2011-04-11 18:35 Quote from: Jishaxe on April 11, 2011, 07:30:12 pm But anyway, it's for one of those underground ethical hackers communities , and for my friends at school who enjoy sending a bunch of cracp to random websites, so don't be too judgemental This doesn't sound like you are promoting a "denial of service" attack on some web-site?  And you just told about a zillion people that you are doing it? Ringo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-11 19:34 @JD, aha okay sorry for the misinterpretation, I'd just like to keep the GUI nice and easy to use so people that aren't as experienced with computers can use it, such as my school friends. When you say to stick to system default colours, do you mean the coloured bar at the bottom? It's not usually blue, it's blue when flooding, green when connected and red when disconnected Edit: Ohh I get it now, you think that I made the whole UI blue! Nah, that's my system colour, as you can imagine my favourite colour is blue :L @Ringo, Nah, I was just saying that you could use the tool for a DoS attack, but my software wasn't er.. Purely designed for that reason, I know that it's illegal. So I have written a few times that I take no responsibility in what the tool may be used for. So perhaps I should write a fuller disclaimer in case someone deciders to sue me :L ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2011-04-11 19:56 Quote from: Jishaxe on April 11, 2011, 09:34:33 pm@JD, aha okay sorry for the misinterpretation, I'd just like to keep the GUI nice so people that aren't as experienced with computers can use it, such as my school friends. Ok, now that makes very little sense at all, if your tool is not meant to be used in abusive ways. Whatever the legal situation... And by the way, in some places it is illegal to possess/download such tools, even if only for testing your own server. Anyway, I can only see 2 uses. - Attack other people - Test your own hardware / software setup But if you test your own, you must make sure that you do not affect anyone else, including other servers or network at the hosting provider or between the provider and you. (Even if you have your own server, you still use some-ones network) Anyway, any person using that to test their own, ought to be a skilled system administrator. The description you give: Quote from: Jishaxe on April 11, 2011, 09:34:33 pmpeople that aren't as experienced with computers can use it, such as my school friends. does not fit a system admin. "people that aren't skilled with computers" have no reason to use such software. And if they do, then it is most likely for bad reasons. ------------ Please note: I do in no way indent to say that you want your software to be used in bad ways. Benefit of the doubt, you do not indent this; but then clearly you haven't given it to much thought either. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-11 20:23 I suppose this isn't really a good idea, developing this software. Thanks for your advice. I can't decide whether to keep developing Floody or scrap it :/ I haven't given much thought on the legal whatevers of it, but it's my most successful project so far :| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin_fr · 2011-04-11 21:54 Quote from: Jishaxe on April 11, 2011, 10:23:37 pmI suppose this isn't really a good idea, developing this software. Thanks for your advice. I can't decide whether to keep developing Floody or scrap it :/ I It's not that black and white. But it certainly requires you to think more about it. Developing a tool like this, you can learn a lot, not just pascal, but more the networking, and configuration of servers. Yet I assume, you hardly have a server of your own, and even if, you couldn't attack it via any public network, as you may cause trouble to the network. But if you have a 2nd computer at home, you can install a web server , or even your own pascal written server, there. And then you can play without hurting anyone. If you publish the tool, as closed source, you can put in limitations. e.g the target must be on a local network, (resolve the arp address, if it hasn't one, them it isn't...). Though that wouldn't prevent any one from running it in a school network. Do some research of your own, what is reasonable. There are many tools like this, Some are clearly for bad reasons, others are very valuable for system admins. Though all of them can be used by both sides. Just make sure no one mistakes it for a game (makes me think of an old movie, "War games" ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames ) If you and the users, understand the possible effects from using a tool like this, then the picture changes. Put if you put out a fancy tool with the message: "it's a game, see what example.com, google, or your friends home page can take", then it's bad. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Leledumbo · 2011-04-11 22:04 Choose a brighter color for the button, I almost can't see that cancel button (I thought it was some kind of decoration). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-12 06:53 Quote from: Martin_fr on April 11, 2011, 11:54:37 pmDeveloping a tool like this, you can learn a lot, not just pascal, but more the networking, and configuration of servers. This is true, on building the tools my knowledge about networking has greatly increased Quote from: Martin_fr on April 11, 2011, 11:54:37 pmYet I assume, you hardly have a server of your own, and even if, you couldn't attack it via any public network, as you may cause trouble to the network. This is also true. Quote from: Martin_fr on April 11, 2011, 11:54:37 pmDo some research of your own, what is reasonable. There are many tools like this, Some are clearly for bad reasons, others are very valuable for system admins. Though all of them can be used by both sides. I was just wondering what  the legal situation is to publish it for both sides but write a disclaimer saying that it's the users choice whether to use it for good or bad, but I take no rensponisbility in any damage that may have been caused in the using of this tool? Do you think that would protect me from the law? I have seen similar software before (funny enough the one that inspired mine) that does the same job and doesn't claim anything about 'please use this software for good' or 'i take no responsibility' Etc etc. And it's still there. I will certainly have to do some research. QuoteIf you and the users, understand the possible effects from using a tool like this, then the picture changes. Perhaps I should make it display a warning on first time start exaplaining that executing a Denial Of Sevice attack is illegal. QuotePut if you put out a fancy tool with the message: "it's a game, see what example.com, google, or your friends home page can take", then it's bad. This is fair enough. That's not how I intended it to be. That movie sounds interesting, BTW. I've just read the plot :L ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-12 06:56 Quote from: Leledumbo on April 12, 2011, 12:04:21 amChoose a brighter color for the button, I almost can't see that cancel button (I thought it was some kind of decoration). Haha, as I said up, the reason it's all blue is because my theme is that colour. Perhaps I should have posted a Windows screenshot to to stop consfions :L ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JD · 2011-04-12 08:29 @Jishaxe This project is a tremendous learning tool. Go ahead & perfect it. It's broader usage is however is not as simple as black or white. I remember I once had a C programming book that had chapters on writing viruses & worms! Really! I learned a lot from it & at one time I toyed with writing a home made antivirus. That was me, someone else would probably have decided the opposite and created the next "I Love You" or "Melissa" virus. What I'm trying to say is you never know what your software will be used for. A knife is a useful tool as well as a weapon. If you feel a little uneasy about the use of your software, my advice is a) keep its usage personal OR b) keep the source closed & hard code network parameters into it so it cannot be used outside of a "safe" LAN of your choosing BTW I did think you made the whole user interface blue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-12 08:39 Quote from: JD on April 12, 2011, 10:29:51 am@Jishaxe This project is a tremendous learning tool. Go ahead & perfect it. It's broader usage is however is not as simple as black or white. I remember I once had a C programming book that had chapters on writing viruses & worms! Really! I learned a lot from it & at one time I toyed with writing a home made antivirus. That was me, someone else would probably have decided the opposite and created the next "I Love You" or "Melissa" virus. What I'm trying to say is you never know what your software will be used for. A knife is a useful tool as well as a weapon. If you feel a little uneasy about the use of your software, my advice is a) keep its usage personal OR b) keep the source closed & hard code network parameters into it so it cannot be used outside of a "safe" LAN of your choosing BTW I did think you made the whole user interface blue.   Aha thanks for your advice, this has made me decide to keep developing it, but put warnings at several points in the software. Thanks again, and sorry for the confusion PS. An anti-virus? Niiice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- avra · 2011-04-12 09:05 Quote from: Jishaxe on April 11, 2011, 10:23:37 pmI haven't given much thought on the legal whatevers of it, but it's my most successful project so far :| How do you measure success? By number of servers brought down? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marcov · 2011-04-12 09:36 Personally I hate GUI's like that, that are dolled up by changing as many properties from their default values as possible. If I want to achieve something, I simply want the UI to be as standard as possible, and this 'playtime" should be invested in following the HIG to the letter, and setting stuff like tab-order, keyboard shortcuts etc. Oh, and to the judgemental people, I've made such stresstools many times for perfectly legit purposes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-12 12:50 No, the amount of downloads, Alpha testers and the amount of people talking about it on the lunch table :L ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TurboRascal · 2011-04-12 13:47 Quote from: marcov on April 12, 2011, 11:36:28 amPersonally I hate GUI's like that, that are dolled up by changing as many properties from their default values as possible. There is another hidden peril here, one regarding usability. Namely, the "theme" created may work fine with the programmers system theme, but when someone else with a different color scheme starts it, weird things like light text on light background or dark text on dark background can happen. That is tipical for inverse and dark themes if such software was created on a "more usual" color scheme; this is especially problematic when high contrast and/or inverse color accessibility schemes are used... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-12 14:16 Quote from: TurboRascal on April 12, 2011, 03:47:59 pmQuote from: marcov on April 12, 2011, 11:36:28 amPersonally I hate GUI's like that, that are dolled up by changing as many properties from their default values as possible. There is another hidden peril here, one regarding usability. Namely, the "theme" created may work fine with the programmers system theme, but when someone else with a different color scheme starts it, weird things like light text on light background or dark text on dark background can happen. That is tipical for inverse and dark themes if such software was created on a "more usual" color scheme; this is especially problematic when high contrast and/or inverse color accessibility schemes are used... Yeah, I've come across this problem before. You know the blue bar at the bottom with white text? On Windows that compiled to have black text, which wasn't readable so I had to change the colour on the Windows edition. In the future I may use one of those IFDEF thingies to make the text white in Windows... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- fabienwang · 2011-04-12 14:34 I personally try to conform to standard/defaults fonts/colors etc. so the applications appears in the user theme. But sometimes you have to space more your components to make it look good on most platforms. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Leledumbo · 2011-04-12 17:42 QuoteHaha, as I said up, the reason it's all blue is because my theme is that colour.It's fine, just pick a little brighter color JUST for the button. Lower down the blue part of the color a little, if you use 24-bit hex, FF to DD or CC is enough I guess. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jishaxe · 2011-04-12 20:06 Quote from: Leledumbo on April 12, 2011, 07:42:21 pmQuoteHaha, as I said up, the reason it's all blue is because my theme is that colour.It's fine, just pick a little brighter color JUST for the button. Lower down the blue part of the color a little, if you use 24-bit hex, FF to DD or CC is enough I guess. Not sure what you mean by that, sorry. I just use clColours How would I darken the button colour if the button would just show up as white on Windows?