Lazarus did not work properly on Ubuntu, Install from the official repositories lazarus / 1-Linux ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 19:35 The current version of lazarus in the official ubuntu22.04lts  software repository is 2.2.0+dfsg1-5ubuntu1. This version doesn't work.  When you compile the default project, you will be prompted with missing files. Even if you install a missing LCL library, you will get the error "EClassNotFound" as soon as there is a Togglebox in your project. Other ISSUS: ToolButton does not work properly in tbsCheck mode and cannot distinguish whether it is in the Checked state or not. The code for ToolButton is too complicated for me to find where the problem is. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-15 19:41 Quote from: gasensor on June 15, 2024, 09:35:40 pmThe current version of lazarus in the official ubuntu22.04lts  software repository is 2.2.0+dfsg1-5ubuntu1. Then upgrade. version 2.2.0 of Lazarus is in comparison ancient. If want to to it manually then it is possible to use FPCUpDeluxe otherwise the download files are here. Therefor there is no point in responding to the issues you mentioned. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 20:00 Quote from: TRon on June 15, 2024, 09:41:20 pmQuote from: gasensor on June 15, 2024, 09:35:40 pmThe current version of lazarus in the official ubuntu22.04lts  software repository is 2.2.0+dfsg1-5ubuntu1. Then upgrade. version 2.2.0 of Lazarus is in comparison ancient. If want to to it manually then it is possible to use FPCUpDeluxe otherwise the download files are here. Therefor there is no point in responding to the issues you mentioned. I know this version is outdated. But have Lazarus.org been in contact with publishers like Ubuntu or Fedora? Reminding publishers of updates in a timely manner can effectively improve the user experience. In fact, for beginners, using the software from the official OS library is the most convenient option. P.S. The Ubuntu's default theme is really weird, and the lazarus's default controls often work unexpectedly ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-15 20:07 Quote from: gasensor on June 15, 2024, 10:00:50 pmI know this version is outdated. But have Lazarus.org been in contact with publishers like Ubuntu or Fedora? Reminding publishers of updates in a timely manner can effectively improve the user experience. Newer Ubuntu version carry newer Lazarus versions. It is the job of the distribution maintainers or those that provide Lazarus packages. The latter is covered by the downloads. QuoteIn fact, for beginners, using the software from the official OS library is the most convenient option. Ofc. but you would have to complain to canonical for that. Having said that also realize that LTS stands for something... and that something is choosing stability over new and fancy and is usually a well considered decision (however you/we/me might dislike that). The libc debacle (which doesn't seem to have finished yet) is a recent example of how things blow up in your face. QuoteP.S. The Ubuntu's default theme is really weird, and the lazarus's default controls often work unexpectedly Not mentioning the used DE and widgetset makes such a remark just some air pushed around ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 20:48 I suggest Lazarus.org official urging/checking that the individual distros of Lazarus work properly and are out of date. Software that doesn't work causes new users to give up just as they try. In fact, there are not many Linux distributions that are commonly used:   Debian, Fedora, RHEL,  ubuntu, Mint, MX, All of the above will cover most Linux users ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-15 20:51 Quote from: gasensor on June 15, 2024, 10:48:14 pmI suggest Lazarus.org official urging/checking that the individual distros of Lazarus work properly and are out of date. Welcome into the world of "that is not how things work". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 21:03 It shouldn't be extortion for protection money. It should be easier to update if lazarus.org provide a package that meets the release requirements. It is even possible to take over this part of the work. After all, packaging and testing applications is an important, laborious but not glorious task ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-15 21:29 Quote from: gasensor on June 15, 2024, 11:03:39 pmIt shouldn't be extortion for protection money. It should be easier to update if lazarus.org provide a package that meets the release requirements. It is even possible to take over this part of the work. After all, packaging and testing applications is an important, laborious but not glorious task I have no idea what you are talking about... the way you describe things is not how maintaining a Linux distribution works. And that is your culprit, not Lazarus, Free Pascal or "the Lazarus organization" (whatever you mean by that). You could just as well suggest to 'the lazarus organization' to start distributing coffee-machines... also not going to happen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 21:37 Quote from: TRon on June 15, 2024, 11:29:05 pmQuote from: gasensor on June 15, 2024, 11:03:39 pmIt shouldn't be extortion for protection money. It should be easier to update if lazarus.org provide a package that meets the release requirements. It is even possible to take over this part of the work. After all, packaging and testing applications is an important, laborious but not glorious task I have no idea what you are talking about... the way you describe things is not how maintaining a Linux distribution works. And that is your culprit, not Lazarus, Free Pascal or "the Lazarus organization" (whatever you mean by that). You could just as well suggest to 'the lazarus organization' to start distributing coffee-machines... also not going to happen  It could be a misunderstanding caused by translation.  I'm not a native English speaker. To get back to the point, a general distribution will provide an interface to a third-party software provider. To add or update software, as long as the original author of the software proposes and uploads it, and then waits for the official approval of the release. Some staff members will delay/refuse approval without reason in order to tip. Called "extortion" by our developers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-15 21:42 Quote from: gasensor on June 15, 2024, 11:37:42 pmIt could be a misunderstanding caused by translation.  I'm not a native English speaker. Me neither so perhaps that might be case. QuoteTo get back to the point, a general distribution will provide an interface to a third-party software provider. To add or update software, as long as the original author of the software proposes and uploads it, and then waits for the official approval of the release. Again, this is not how maintaining a Linux distribution works. That si a job for the package maintainers but.. based on the general consensus that given distribution allows for certain packages to be updated. QuoteSome staff members will delay/refuse approval without reason in order to tip. Called "extortion" by our developers. What nonsense is that ? I pointed you to the downloads of the packages which are create directly after the release of a new version of Lazarus, and yes some (cross) targets are not automatically created because of the fact that it will take too much time, effort and not to mention space. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 21:56 QuoteWhat nonsense is that ? Like you once said : "Welcome into the world of "that is not how things work".  " I don't know where you live. But this kind of thing is common in many parts of the planet. Well, let's end this unpleasant topic. I'd like to think of some way to update the repositories of these distributions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-15 22:00 Quote from: gasensor on June 15, 2024, 11:56:09 pmLike you once said : "Welcome into the world of "that is not how things work".  " Used out of context and you still do not seem to get it. QuoteI don't know where you live. But this kind of thing is common in many parts of the planet. What exactly is common in many part of the world ? that software developers need to convince a Linux distributions to include their software, provide packages and force them to update when there is a new version of the software ? You can keep ignoring the fact that Linux distributions are maintained using a certain order of rules but that does not change the fact that distributions keep following those rules unless otherwise noted. QuoteWell, let's end this unpleasant topic. I'd like to think of some way to update the repositories of these distributions You created it by suggesting that the lazarus developers withhold creating packages until there is money exchanged which is total nonsense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 22:10 QuoteWhat exactly is common in many part of the world ? Greed is human nature. Because of the existence of selfless open source software, the souls of kind people have sustenance. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-15 22:17 Quote from: gasensor on June 16, 2024, 12:10:51 amGreed is human nature. Because of the existence of selfless open source software, the souls of kind people have sustenance. Why do you focus on these kind of things while you can install a rolling distro or update the links to your repositories ? That is what these distributions ask of you when you want all the latest and greatest or in case not then install (in your case) the provided debian package(s) manually (*). (*) see also wiki ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 22:32 Quote from: TRon on June 16, 2024, 12:17:27 amQuote from: gasensor on June 16, 2024, 12:10:51 amGreed is human nature. Because of the existence of selfless open source software, the souls of kind people have sustenance. Why do you focus on these kind of things while you can install a rolling distro or update the links to your repositories ? That is what these distributions ask of you when you want all the latest and greatest or in case not then install (in your case) the provided debian package(s) manually. Because I want Linux/lazarus to get better and more popular. A simple bug can make a beginner give up and switch to other tools such as QT and C# ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-15 22:40 Quote from: gasensor on June 16, 2024, 12:32:16 amBecause I want Linux/lazarus to get better and more popular. But then making such remarks as you did are not very helpful. More helpful would be to ask maintainers of Ubuntu 22.04 why they do not update their Lazarus package (even if that is provided by one of the members of our community). QuoteA simple bug can make a beginner give up and switch to other tools such as QT and C# Sure but bugs only apply to their specific version. If you prefer QT or C# over FPC/Lazarus then so be it. In my humble opinion there is no competition for FPC/Lazarus but opinions differ  fwiw: I also have the opinion that in case you are a serious developer that you should never install FPC and Lazarus from your distribution packages... the reason why, besides being hopelessly outdated,  becomes clear pretty fast. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 23:12 QuoteMore helpful would be to ask maintainers of Ubuntu 22.04 why they do not update their Lazarus package (even if that is provided by one of the members of our community). It's Lazarus.org more appropriate to do this. More timely and prevent third-party supply chain attacks. Quote In my humble opinion there is no competition for FPC/Lazarus but opinions differ  No competition means fewer users. Just like the place of COBOL in a bank's IT system. But the new system no longer uses COBOL. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-15 23:19 Quote from: gasensor on June 16, 2024, 01:12:57 amIt's Lazarus.org more appropriate to do this. More timely and prevent third-party supply chain attacks. No, and for two reasons: a) rules (as already explained) and b) do you perhaps have a can of (Lazarus) developers that you can open and that are able to waste their time doing these things ? Especially the first reason you do not seem to grasp. You are simply barking up the wrong tree for that. QuoteNo competition means fewer users. Just like the place of COBOL in a bank's IT system. But the new system no longer uses COBOL. I hate to burst a bubble there but the use of Pascal in general is declining rapidly and it will get even worse because everyone in this world (at least those who make the decisions) seem to go all frantic on yet another new buzz of the day. Yesterday it was Go, today it is Kotlin etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-15 23:44 QuoteI hate to burst a bubble there but the use of Pascal in general is declining rapidly and it will get even worse because everyone in this world (at least those who make the decisions) seem to go all frantic on yet another new buzz of the day. Yesterday it was Go, today it is Kotlin etc. The last 20 years belong to Windows and x86 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-16 04:44 I still find it peculiar that the bad impression that was provided by the distribution of your choice has (according to the statements you made) something to do with the efforts and/or responsibility of the FPC and Lazarus developers. For convenience you skipped your own choices (choosing a older LTS/stable distribution) and the responsibility of the distribution of your choice (and its maintainers). Windows and Linux are not the only two platforms that are supported by FPC/Lazarus let alone the many different distributions that exist of/for only these two platforms alone (that you conveniently left out all other Linux distributions that you are not familiar with or in your opinion are uncommon is besides the point). The team provides different packaging methods that are used in almost all *nix distributions and in case there is none for you platform than you can always fall back to the basic install package. And all these files that are provided are only for convenience as you can build things from source. But, I wish you good luck in trying to convince ubuntu maintainers into updating their Lazarus packages of the distribution of your choice. You will most probably receive the  same answer or you already got that answer there and tried to make another attempt here. I can only guess. An analogy of your request is like a 5 lane highway in a complete traffic jam and wanting to pass all and everything using the emergency lane because in your opinion that is the right thing to do and at the same time want someone else to take the driver seat... never mind the seat belts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dsiders · 2024-06-16 04:46 Don't feed the troll. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TRon · 2024-06-16 04:49 Yes, you are most probably right dsiders.... sometimes I can't help myself. Call me stupid and/or hardheaded ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-16 05:19 There are fewer and fewer users, and trolls are just as rare. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- dbannon · 2024-06-16 09:52 gasensor, do you mind if I take you aside and explain how Linux Distros work ?  Specifically Ubuntu but others are similar. Here, at lazarus.org (you mean FPC/Lazarus) there are quite a few very demanding users like you and me. And a  small number of completely unpaid, volunteer developers. From time to time, these developers will determine its time to put a 'release' together, special testing, fine tuning, and basic packaging. Thats all they can do. At the same time, over at Debian, another, unrelated group see that Lazarus release, take a copy of it and make that copy into what they consider a Debian package should look like.  Note there is very little if any interaction between Debian and FPC/Lazarus. The final Debian packaging looks very, very different from the Lazarus version. That package will go into Debian Testing. No one asks the FPC/Lazarus developers to approve it. Every six months of so, Ubuntu takes a whole lot of packages from Debian Testing and bundle them up to make an Ubuntu Release. An Ubuntu Release remains frozen with only changes to kernel and security, applications generally do NOT change in a distribution once released. Note that the hard working FPC/Lazarus developers have absolutely no way to influence what goes into an Ubuntu distribution, certainly no opportunity to change it once its there. I've glossed over some details but overall, thats it. Now, that may explain why, when you choose to use a two year old distro you get a two year old Lazarus. Absolutely nothing you, me or anyone else can do about it. Lazarus  2.2.0 ? most of us used it, did not experience the problems you describe. Many, many people used the Ubuntu version of it and did not experience the problems you describe. Maybe, just maybe, you are doing something wrong ? Davo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gasensor · 2024-06-16 10:55 Everyone is making the right decisions,  and the number of users is constantly losing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- marcov · 2024-06-16 11:55 Quote from: gasensor on June 16, 2024, 12:55:30 pmEveryone is making the right decisions,  and the number of users is constantly losing. Yes, obviously.  The concept that new developers select tools from on an open market, comparing them is long since antiquated. Most new developers choose some default toolchain that they are taught or comes with the system, regardless of details like features or packages. Management driven development, go with the default.