(untitled) lainchan / r ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Koos van der Merwe · 2019-03-15 22:33 What does /r/ think of this(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST, Please elaborate in your opening post in future, Please state what the media you are linking to is, and a summary of it for those that can't view it, and please state your own thoughts about the media you linked. As per the rules page 4. You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lady Jessica · 2019-03-15 22:55 surreal world we live in Weird how he could have smuggled those guns in New Zealand Also reading his manifesto is weird, almost makes me want to believe that he was CIA agent trying to start up a war between muslims and far right ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unidentified · 2019-03-16 00:52 Dude seems batsoykaf insane to me. On one hand it's funny how absurd it is given what he said, but also depressing given the situation. Seen some people cheer him on but seems like it's only to look edgy and cool. I haven't seen anyone that would actually rise up from the comfort and safety of their computers so far despite the dude calling these people out in his manifesto. What's even stranger is places seem divided on whether or not this was a false flag. Weird fuarrrking times ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Void · 2019-03-16 01:02 Being Australian I think he's a legend. Need more people like him willing to do what's needed to stop the mudskums ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lady 3Jane.. · 2019-03-16 01:25 >>10879 Supposedly he got them legally (passing rigorous background and psych checks and testimony of those around him) >>10882 He seems largely uneducated (stating he never really went to school, got rich of crypto investing early on, then traveled the world a bit). He also used a lot of memes that made it seem like he was trying to be a brewing soykaf terrorist (he states that terrorizing the muslim people was his goal). The memes also make him look like trash, but it is curious to see if he is trying to use the memes as a means to detract from everything he said (i.e. using it as an excuse to not make it sound like a hate crime: "But i made all those remarks sarcastically, i even said that fortnite and spyro radicalized me, clearly that does not make logical sense to call this a hate crime") I think that from a tech point of view, he abused the system (streaming his murders on facebook live) which is a blow to the company that promises to stop hate and make the world a friendly online safe space with content moderation. He also initiated his attack by posting a threat on 8chan which may come to hurt the way people look at imageboard users. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BloodCat · 2019-03-16 02:00 >>10883 he should be put down like the degenerate scum he is, right before you.(Always argue in good faith and avoid using personal attacks.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Judge Fang · 2019-03-16 02:43 I don't support what he did but I do not have much sympathy for the victims. I'm not sure what to make of the aftereffects because most white people are now apologizing en masse to the Muslims and bending over backwards to cater to them even more (something that Muslims never do for non-Muslims, and it makes me very upset when white people are blase and apathetic towards not only the daily attacks on fellow white people by Muslims, but also that they will be replaced by them, with nothing but tragic results), but at the same time, he predicted all of that. He seemed to know what he was doing to at least some extent, so I can't quite call him an idiot. Supposedly the Prime Minister just said that she wants MORE Muslims to flood into that country. The question is, why? They already make up 1.1 percent, which is way too high. Muslims are just invading everywhere, it is disgusting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dozer · 2019-03-16 02:48 >>10887 >daily attacks source? In the US at least, stuff like this is just as common as mooslum terrorism. >>10887 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jet Black · 2019-03-16 03:19 >>10886 You're part of the problem, seeing a brave man take a stand and you want to punish him(You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cypher · 2019-03-16 03:57 >>10889 >seeing a brave man take a stand and you want to punish him while you have a right to your opinion, I will politely disagree. His actions were neither brave, nor should they go without punishment. He did not act brave on behalf of others, he was a terrorist. In fact, he explains exactly how he hopes to inspire terror and make all muslims feel unsafe in his manifesto. Many people were calling him some sort of warrior for the white race, but in reality he was just a petty psychopath. Ethnocentrism creates problems because it makes people unable to interact productively. (In his case, he praised a white ethnostate, which is the same as those muslims who want to create a caliphate i.e. ISIS). Interaction between people of differing opinions is a fundamental necessity of human socialization. Without it, new advances in art, science, or technology would not be possible. To those who would call him a "warrior" I would say you are wrong, because a warrior serves the purpose described by sitting bull: >The warrior, for us, is one who sacrifices himself for the good of others. His task is to take care of the elderly, the defenseless, those who can not provide for themselves, and above all, the children, the future of humanity. As one may say, every terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, one must accept that he engaged in hostilities against people during a spiritual service, which is a deplorable action of itself, as it detracts from ones inherent rights (this means minding ones own business). Unfortunately I feel that people will try to spout memes at me for this post, and I don't care how brainwashed you have made yourself. You have the right to say, do, and believe what you want, but bear in mind that there are consequences. I feel that politeness never hurt anyone, and there is too much hate in the world. Unfortunately, one must be cognizant that there are those who subscribe to ignorant ideals that preach hate, and those people must be defended against. Those who are unwilling to use deadly force will always fall prey to those who are, but one should never resort to force as a means of enforcing opinion. Murdering people (especially in such a detestable fashion as with playing meme music) is no act of bravery, one could call it psychological warfare, but it is hypocritical for someone especially who claims to hold himself to a higher set of ideals. There are relatively good and bad people everywhere, take lainchan for example, as a community we are composed of people form all nations, religions, and walks of life, but we are all the same- anonymous lains who need to work together for the good of the community. In the same way, one should not judge other humans by their skin color, religion, or appearance alone. Predominantly, people have objections to hurting others, and while they may be selfish assholes , they are generally not malicious enough to physically hurt your being. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Acid Burn · 2019-03-16 03:57 Can aussies even be called wignat? At some point you're just a real nigger, and to draw the line some where past aussie is a bit dishonest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Phantom Phreak · 2019-03-16 04:54 Plenty of things make me ashamed to be Australian but this has been a big one. Most of what I’ve thought about this past day has been about the poor people who lost their lives because of this. Nothing can excuse it - even if the conspiracy theories were true, or even had an iota of truth in them, nothing can possibly be said which would make this acceptable. It’s so bad and it’s made so many people incredibly sad. I say this also as an ex-Muslim who left the religion because I did not agree with it anymore - something which I think should be basically irrelevant because these people never did anything to deserve this, but something which I think still bears being mentioned. It’s a very dull silver lining but I’m glad the Bangledeshi test cricket team managed to avoid getting caught up in this blood bath. As a devoted lover of cricket, I don’t think I could bear the shame if one of my countrymen had murdered the international men’s representatives of some of our cricket loving brothers in the subcontinent. And now the third NZ v Bangladesh test of the series has been cancelled. This fuarrrking memeing fascist cunt has ruining so much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dujour · 2019-03-16 04:58 >>10890 >Interaction between people of differing opinions is a fundamental necessity of human socialization. Without it, new advances in art, science, or technology would not be possible. I'm not particularly invested in this, but I feel like it might be worth pointing out that the muslim world has contributed next to zero to art/science/tech in the last couple centuries. (Not to neglect their previous top-tier work in mathematics). To me it is more of a culture war than a race war anyways. Arabs who practice the islamic faith but are integrated into western culture and ideals can contribute great things within those countries. Refugees and outsiders who hold different values and cultural ideals are likely to be incompatible. I doubt anyone with a sub-highschool education from a war-torn country is liable to produce substantial advances in science or tech without first making significant effort to integrate into the host country which, from the little I've seen/heard, is simply not happening. also european countries already have an abundance of candidates for positions in art/sci/tech; they need refugees as breeder stock for manual labor and to fill in the bottom of the socioeconomic pyramid because their reproductive rates plummeted >To those who would call him a "warrior" I would say you are wrong, because a warrior serves the purpose described by sitting bull: >The warrior, for us, is one who sacrifices himself for the good of others. His task is to take care of the elderly, the defenseless, those who can not provide for themselves, and above all, the children, the future of humanity. I'm not really a fan of what the guy did, but I'm pretty sure he would 110% self-describe as doing all of those things. In his mind he was sacrificing himself to bring what he saw as a rampaging race/culture war to the attention of the masses and to help ensure a future for his ideologies. Not that his ideas are good ones. But you can't deny his intent. sage because pol/10 thread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Batou · 2019-03-16 05:09 >>10885 Yeah it'll be interesting to see if his soykafposts have a far reaching effect online ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guthrie · 2019-03-16 09:05 I found it amusing. I've read that it is good in part because, as such things become increasingly more common, it will become harder and harder to deny this war-like state the world is currently in; I agree. Multiculturalism is a failure and it is clear to many. This is an unnatural state and violence is the result. I can have a pleasant conversation with someone in a different country and with wildly different beliefs over the Internet, because there's no real threat of physical violence. Human groups should stay to themselves, physically. I could continue going on, but it doesn't seem appropriate. As for whether this was faked or not, I don't have an opinion yet, as I've not been able to watch the entire video. Here is the first half. If anyone has the full video, I would like it to be shared. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsigned · 2019-03-16 13:23 >>10896 >I can have a pleasant conversation with someone in a different country and with wildly different beliefs over the Internet, because there's no real threat of physical violence. Human groups should stay to themselves, physically. Why does it have to be that way, if everyone thinks the same, they fall victim to groupthink and are easily taken advantage of? I like to present as a counterexample the trade industries and economies at international crossroads (like the Mediterranean) even if people talked soykaf about one another, it was good to exchange ideas and goods on even terms, because it benefited everyone. I found this paper on the subject that says that multiculturalism is a matter of individualism. >Perhaps surprisingly, however, the main opponents of the West are Westerners themselves, who attack rationalism, science, and legitimate authority. But at its core, true multiculturalism relies on loyalty to a particular group and insistence on its unique value. By nature, such groups place the authority of the collective ahead of the claims of the individual. How does group loyalty fit with the Western opponents’ hostility to authority? >It can’t, of course. Multiculturalism is not really multicultural, and in fact owes more to Western individualism than to non-Western traditional cultures. Multiculturalists, ignoring facts about cultures in which they claim membership, cannot conceive of a culture that does not celebrate the rights of the imperial individual, yet they attack individualism. loyalty and group mentality is not a bad thing, but it also does not need to be isolationist. Multiculturalism as an appreciation of what makes one special while admitting there are differences to others that are equally as important (in terms of a capitalist economy, this can be a difference in goods or services uniquely produced by one people). Unfortunately, tech has created isolationists rather than multiculturalists, simply by the nature of preaching pride, but filtering any foreign ideas, and the lack of IRL interaction means there is not metric to see others as human. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nell · 2019-03-16 15:20 After reading up on this, I don't know how anyone could claim the modern world is anything but a stupid joke that everyone is forced to be a part of. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Spike Spiegel · 2019-03-16 16:30 >>10897 >Unfortunately, tech has created isolationists Very true, lots of places online are more like an echo chamber than a place to discuss a topic. It's unfortunate since rather than having your ideas discussed, tested and challenged it's simply easier to ignore any criticism. To me this comes off as insecure more than anything else, which is a shame because tech gives us such an opportunity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Donna Hawthorne · 2019-03-16 20:24 >>10896 As an update, I found a copy here: https://darkweb.tokyo/ It's 84 megabytes and /f/ is gone so I can't upload it here. >>10897 >Why does it have to be that way, if everyone thinks the same, they fall victim to groupthink and are easily taken advantage of? Not everyone in a large group thinks the same. Not all muslims, jews, whites, africans, or any other large group. There are certain memetic ideas that are common, but it's hard to argue that a group composed of millions will entirely fall to groupthink. I think differently than my neighbors and family and it's really not hard. >I like to present as a counterexample the trade industries and economies at international crossroads (like the Mediterranean) even if people talked soykaf about one another, it was good to exchange ideas and goods on even terms, because it benefited everyone. Sure, but violence does break out among certain groups at times. You can argue this is just the cost of doing business, though, and it's not as if people don't also fight amongst themselves. >I found this paper on the subject that says that multiculturalism is a matter of individualism. I agree with that idea, but that's because I believe multiculturalism is designed to breakdown groups and that results in increasing isolation and so also individualism. >Perhaps surprisingly, however, the main opponents of the West are Westerners themselves, who attack rationalism, science, and legitimate authority. But at its core, true multiculturalism relies on loyalty to a particular group and insistence on its unique value. By nature, such groups place the authority of the collective ahead of the claims of the individual. How does group loyalty fit with the Western opponents’ hostility to authority? I think people who reject science and other things we can reasonably know to be true in some way, even if not perfectly, are crazed. >It can’t, of course. Multiculturalism is not really multicultural, and in fact owes more to Western individualism than to non-Western traditional cultures. Multiculturalists, ignoring facts about cultures in which they claim membership, cannot conceive of a culture that does not celebrate the rights of the imperial individual, yet they attack individualism. Sure. This is like how people complain about "cultural appropriation" using phones, computers, while wearing clothes made in factories, and taking medicine created by the West when they get sick. >loyalty and group mentality is not a bad thing, but it also does not need to be isolationist. Multiculturalism as an appreciation of what makes one special while admitting there are differences to others that are equally as important (in terms of a capitalist economy, this can be a difference in goods or services uniquely produced by one people). I'd rather just use the Internet for other groups. It's not fun to go to a restaraunt in your country and see so many people unlike you. >Unfortunately, tech has created isolationists rather than multiculturalists, simply by the nature of preaching pride, but filtering any foreign ideas, and the lack of IRL interaction means there is not metric to see others as human. Sure. I don't really have much to comment, because I don't want to have a long discussion. I just posted again to share the video. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Chani · 2019-03-16 21:22 >>10900 It has been this way forever. Humanity is one big joke. Just like in Camus' "The Stranger" - you have killed an arab, but you are judged because you had not cried on your mothers funeral. It's just a big, wild ride. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- peteyboi · 2019-03-17 06:43 >>10890 >>10905 another line from camus "there is only the benign indifference of the universe"(the outsider).which to me sums up all of mans machinations and futility. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Switch · 2019-03-17 23:56 >>10897 I think you are really missing the point though, what does this have to do with this aussie shooter? He travelled the world extensively learning and interacting with different cultures across the globe and posted pictures of his travels. He does not fit the anti-multicultural stereotype you are trying to box him into. He quite literally tried to explore all of the various cultures in an earnest effort and only afterwards came to these conclusions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- H.R. Giger · 2019-03-18 08:22 >>10932 It would be more accurate to say he was radicalised by extremist elements of the countries he visited. And your use of the terms "literally" "earnest" and "conclusions" suggest you tacitly support his actions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Masami Eiri · 2019-03-18 11:29 We live in the dumbest possible timeline and fascism is going to come back in the form of people who unironically reference memes in meatspace. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Haruyoshi · 2019-03-18 22:32 What I find interesting is how NZ government and media is reacting to it. They try to stop the spread of his videos and manifestos. NZ government even jailed few people for spreading his videos and tried gathering IPs and emails of people who spread it on website called kiwifarms (no relations to kiwi country). Media has been so far as to demonize everyone wanting to watch the video and got some psychologist "experts" and puppets telling us that we shouldn't watch the video. Weird. Funny how it's 21st century so their censorship attempts die in vain. Lmao. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. X · 2019-03-19 01:06 >>10938 You can empathise with perspectives without holding them, agreeing with them, or supporting them in any way. The understanding that we have of the world is all about understanding other peoples frame of reference as best we can and empathising with everyone around us. We are all in this together. If you have this skill, it becomes easier to talk to people who hold extreme views and talk them back to reality. I personally think the reason why people like shooter do dumb soykaf like this is because they don't have people they can talk to that actually understand them. This is the function that therapy has for many people, but extremists can't go to normal channels like therapy often. Anyway, I don't think it is helpful to other anyone just because they are a horrible person, everyone is in this world together. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sabo Engle · 2019-03-19 10:11 >>10932 i'd like to disagree... many anti-multicultural folks travel... heck, there are anti-immigration and racist white people living in japan (as.. guess what, immigrant.) - many are against interracial relationships and yet, they fetishise japanese women to such extent they marry them even though it should be against their politics... just because someone meets other cultures doesn't mean they don't necessarily have prejudice. (and that goes for philosophies and policies too) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Hilger · 2019-03-20 08:56 He is a puppet and the incident was a false flag. Somebody in the NZ government knew he was trouble but wanted him to go through with it to create a backlash against NZ gun owners, due process, and online political speech. I feel bad for the decent New Zealanders who are getting targeted for the rampage of some Australian puppet. I would welcome freedom-loving New Zealanders into the United States. Kiwi refugees welcome! The memes made about it are funny though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Motoko Kusanagi · 2019-03-20 09:19 >>10963 why would one go to usa when seeking freedom? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Leto Atreides I · 2019-03-20 13:30 >>10887 >>10888 >daily attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_March_201 9 Islam-associated attacks appear to happen roughly 2-3 times a day, but attacks specifically against western whites appear to be more in the range of 3+ times a month (at least for March). Just going to to leave his manifesto here. I read it yesterday and while I don't agree with him on some things, he does present an interesting socioeconomic explanation of mass migration to Europe. Also annoyed at the media portrayal of him as yet another ultra-racist white-supremacist muslim-hating shooter. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Koichiro · 2019-03-20 13:40 >>10967 What the... Did you read what you posted? What is the interesting socioeconomic explanation of mass migration there? How is he not a yet another ultra-racist white-supremacist muslim-hating shooter? What do you think does it mean when I say that I don't hate you but I want you to stay away from me and that I just hate everyone who chooses to associate with you? It just means I don't just hate you but I'm also an asshole about it. >blood traitors to their own race ... This guy.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Emmanuel · 2019-03-20 13:56 >>10968 You don’t believe in race traitors? What do you think an Uncle Tom is? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Donna Hawthorne · 2019-03-20 14:52 >>10965 The United States despite its flaws and shortcomings has stronger political expression freedoms than other countries where you get arrested because of "hate speech." It also tends not to crackdown on law-abiding gun owners in most states because of some psycho foreigner so the NZ farmers who want to be able to have functioning weapons to fight off mulitple assailants and wild animals can do so better here. Also, we need more active voters in our country to remove politicians who support "red flag laws" and who want to destroy due process with Soviet-style crackdowns on dissent which include treating anyone who has a different perspective of life as mentally ill. Kiwi refugees would make great US citizens. Oh and I included another meme for fun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Koichiro · 2019-03-20 15:01 >>10968 >What is the interesting socioeconomic explanation of mass migration there? If you read through the actual manifesto, he argues that mass importation of refugees is being backed primarily by corporate interests to maintain a readily available source of cheap pseudo-slave labor. Previously I'd only seen arguments based on humanitarian ideals ala "they are people too" which I found unconvincing or political/racial politics "campaign to kill the white race" which seemed far too tinfoil hat. I'd seen arguments that Europe needed migrants to help stabilize against collapsing birthrates, but I couldn't understand why they would take refugees instead of literally ANYONE else with better education and a more similar cultural background. Maybe I'm just dimwitted, but to me the economics argument makes a lot more sense and had not occurred to me prior. >How is he not a yet another ultra-racist white-supremacist muslim- hating shooter? >White supremacy or white supremacism is the racist belief that white people are superior to people of other races and therefore should be dominant over them. White supremacy has roots in scientific racism, and it often relies on pseudoscientific arguments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy I don't see him making any claims of this sort. He might not be a paragon of virtue and kindness but I don't see him saying any of the traditional white-supremacist statements ie: > Black people are lesser because X > Muslims are inferior to white people because Y > White people are the best because Z He certainly thinks his brand of white-european-facism is the best thing since sliced bread, but I don't think that is the same thing as being a white supremacist. >ultra-racist I'll have to backpedal on this one. When I hear ultra-racist I imagine someone who thinks along the lines of a traditional KKK member: > all brown people are dirty shack men who rape lots > every culture that is not mine is a dumpster fire that should be nuked into the stone age > we should exterminate all brown people everywhere In his manifesto he self-admits to the attack being racially motivated, but only in the loosely [pseudo?]-scientific way. I'd attribute differences in racial fertility rates more to differences in education/socioeconomic status than intrinsic biological differences, but that's splitting hairs. Perhaps we have different ideas of racism lain. To me his statements don't seem to meet this definition: >The ideology underlying racism often includes the idea that humans can be subdivided into distinct groups that are different due to their social behavior and their innate capacities, as well as the idea that they can be ranked as inferior or superior. I'd think of him as attempting to engage in a culture war much more so than a race war. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Batou · 2019-03-20 17:00 >>10971 >Maybe I'm just dimwitted, but to me the economics argument makes a lot more sense and had not occurred to me prior. Well soz but yes you are dimwitted it is not a new argument by any means. Imagine the dude had just come to this site to post his blog, nobody would've given a soykaf. The only reason anyone cares is because he made himself a celebrity through mass murder. I get the rest of your arguments but they're beyond the point you were making in your previous post saying >Also annoyed at the media portrayal of him as yet another ultra- racist white-supremacist muslim-hating shooter. If you had continued this and said >Also annoyed at the media portrayal of him as yet another ultra- racist white-supremacist muslim-hating shooter when in fact I think he is something I have taken to call 'white-european-fascism' and he doesn't hate muslims but rather just Islamic culture, [and these other minor technical differences] At which point everyone would've noted that you really are a dimwit if you think mass media is going to get deeply into your detailed taxonomy of neofascism. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dujour · 2019-03-20 17:15 >>10967 the great replacement? really? now i can't take you seriously. >>10970 well, i support gun control. i am also leftie... so i would rather keep my healthcare and no fear of school shootings over that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- H.R. Giger · 2019-03-20 17:20 >>10971 fascism? i see it as a brand of nazism. but then, i don't really feel like reading up on some racist's philosophy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Chan Siu Ming · 2019-03-20 18:49 if you're a brown person or any race that falls in the cross-hairs of being 'responsible' for 'the great replacement', do yourself a favor and buy a gun ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Masami Eiri · 2019-03-20 21:54 >>10968 >How is he not a yet another ultra-racist white-supremacist muslim- hating shooter? >white-supremacist muslim-hating They're mutually exclusive. One of the most central beliefs of people on the far Right is that Muslim immigration is only a symptom and Jews are the "disease" and as you head towards the extreme Right you see more solidarity with Muslims as allies against the Jewish menace. Going back to the 1940s, the actual Nazis had strong ties with Arab nations in the middle east until the old colonial powers rolled into town and bitch slapped them all back into line. The truth is the New Zealand shooter wasn't "ultra-extremist-radical" anything. He was a normal guy, vaguely nationalist, and fed up with Muslim shenanigans. I'm not trying to defend what he did but you have to admit that Muslims, as an abstract group, have generated a HUGE amount of bad faith across the globe at this point. >What do you think does it mean when I say that I don't hate you but I want you to stay away from me White nationalists want a world where asian people do their thing in asian countries, white people do their thing in white countries, brown people do their thing in brown countries and we call leave each other the fuarrrk alone. There's no hate involved. Yes it's dumb but it's arguably a better recipe for world peace and prosperity than open the borders and let everyone do what they want. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- calyx · 2019-03-20 22:43 >>10985 Muslim shenanigans... The "bad faith" around my parts seem to come from the failure to disconnect extremism from those who're simply attempting to live their lives and practice their religion, which alone causes a ton of scrutiny. If I treated white, christian people the same way white extremists and those with "bad faith" treat muslim people for simply being the same race as extremists, my ears would be full of "reverse racism." If I continued to trivialize the lives of white, christian people by bringing up various extremists' actions towards other white people or people of color, I'd be called a racist for it. Why should this be any different for muslim people? Average NZ muslims have been minding their business for a decade now, why should anyone give into what is media-induced panic instead of addressing that the same extremism that white extremists practice is what accelerates the bad faith towards average muslims? > He was a normal guy You aren't a "normal guy" if your intent is to kill, that's called being a murderer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Marly Krushkhova · 2019-03-20 23:33 >>10986 >The "bad faith" around my parts seem to come from the failure to disconnect extremism from those who're simply attempting to live their lives The hoards of "refugees" currently raping Europe are not extremists. They are just young men with a holy book that lets them treat women as sex objects. >Why should this be any different for muslim people? The difference is that Muslims are perceived to be "invading" white countries (that is, countries which have been built up and maintained by white people for generations). From that perspective Muslims are guests but they don't act like it. That's why your analogy doesn't really work, you're saying white people in white countries are occasionally mean to Muslims boo-hoo. Have you ever looked at how non- Muslims are treated in Muslim countries? >why should anyone give into what is media-induced panic It always gets me how both sides are utterly convinced the media is against them. In Europe at least I think a lot of the animosity is being fueled by the media trying so hard to cover up the bad things "refugees" have been doing. >instead of addressing that the same extremism that white extremists practice is what accelerates the bad faith towards average muslims? Absolutely disagree. Muslims behaving badly is what generates bad faith against Muslims. Don't try to blame it on Evil White Men just being cunts for no reason. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mentat · 2019-03-20 23:36 >>10985 basically there is no intellectual diversity on the right. It's all the same base conspiracy about jews ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Junichi Fujiwara · 2019-03-20 23:38 >>10987 You have a cult like mentality. Muslims are not a "problem" but you are being lied to and you need to leave your online echo chambers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Switch · 2019-03-20 23:38 >>10986 >You aren't a "normal guy" if your intent is to kill, that's called being a murderer. You know what I mean. Politically he was relatively normal. Someone who regards Muslims as the enemy and doesn't believe there is a global Jewish conspiracy to genocide the white race as revenge for the holocaust that never happened; is nowhere on the traditional right-wing/Nazi spectrum. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Six · 2019-03-20 23:42 >>10990 He was a right wing extremist. You're just confirming my suspicion that any one to the right of neoliberals is detached from reality. The holocaust happened. There is no jewish conspiracy. There is no great replacement. The guy who shot up new zealand was a mind poisoned racist right winger. Get the fuarrrk over it, pick yourself up, admit you were wrong. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John Rain · 2019-03-20 23:53 >>10987 > They are just young men with a holy book that lets them treat women as sex objects That's quite an extreme viewpoint amongst many western muslims, a viewpoint that some white men also quietly share here in America. But some of us know better than to not think all white men share those same thoughts. Immigration comes with the possibility of wrong doing and crime but I don't think that's enough to be afraid of an entire race of people, or else, you know, the analogy comes back, regardless of who's host and who's guest: why shouldn't I be afraid of white people in that case? To add onto that... > you're saying white people in white countries are occasionally mean to Muslims boo-hoo. Have you ever looked at how non-Muslims are treated in Muslim countries? White man being treated like trash in brown man country Brown man being treated like trash in white man country It is the same. I'll say that your concern for how 'muslims should act' seems as if you've never even settled with the factor that you might be living in a 'free country'. With that responsibility comes crime and profiles who want to commit that for their own joy. > It always gets me how both sides are utterly convinced the media is against them Let's also remember that what we're discussing on right now is _also_ media. People like to lie to themselves about the platform they swallow information on, surrogating big media for a social media is still media. > Muslims behaving badly is what generates bad faith against Muslims. Don't try to blame it on Evil White Men just being cunts for no reason. "No reason" > White nationalists want a world where asian people do their thing in asian countries, white people do their thing in white countries, brown people do their thing in brown countries and we call leave each other the fuarrrk alone This sounds like a reason to be a total cunt and kill people, yeah? Even then, I still refuse to blame other white people for this. So why Muslims? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jens Hansen · 2019-03-21 00:14 >>10992 >That's quite an extreme viewpoint amongst many western muslims, a viewpoint that some white men also quietly share here in America. But some of us know better than to not think all white men share those same thoughts. It's not the same because women=objects is baked into the religion itself. White men who treat women as objects are just pigs. Muslim men who treat women as objects are following god's will. So actually it's rather irrational for you to assume Muslims follow western values towards women over their holy text. >Immigration comes with the possibility of wrong doing and crime but I don't think that's enough to be afraid of an entire race of people This is fair but the fact still remains that the vast majority of the immigrates are Muslim so that's how other people are going to identify them when they do bad things. And they do do bad things. >White man being treated like trash in brown man country >Brown man being treated like trash in white man country >It is the same. My point was more things like, just existing as a Christian is against the law in some Muslim countries. Even though some people are mean to Muslims in Europe they are still 100% equal before the law and more than equal in media propaganda. If you think it's comparable then you need a little more perspective. I don't mean to be personal but it sounds like everything you know about Muslims comes from leftist propaganda. >"No reason" What's your point? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John Rain · 2019-03-21 01:23 He was deranged. What trouble have muslims caused to Oceania? He has no reason whatsoever to feel the hatred he feels towards muslims and yet, by being weak minded, he took 4chan/8chan too seriously. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Case · 2019-03-21 01:35 >>10993 > It's not the same because women=objects is baked into the religion itself. White men who treat women as objects are just pigs. Muslim men who treat women as objects are following god's will. So actually it's rather irrational for you to assume Muslims follow western values towards women over their holy text. I think some perspective I would put down here is that people who follow the 'holy text' are at best selective about what their holy text states, the same way general christians often denounce older scripture that (vaguely) denounces various 'vices' (that ultimately, no one cares for, or is just dehumanizing, i.e "treat women like objects") It's not a very irrational thing, especially after 9/11. 9/11 may have been the western muslim's most redefining point in denouncing not only terrorism, but also causing a younger generation to practice their religion for the sake of productivity the same way christians do, yet it's still not 'enough' > This is fair but the fact still remains that the vast majority of the immigrates are Muslim When the Middle East is so close to Europe and is consistently in violent conflict either because of their own doing, or America's warmongering, I would frankly expect most of the migrating demographic to come from that area, only because they don't want to die, and so comes the wrong doing from a part of that demographic who simply loves to reap the benefits of being somewhere they can commit crime. No one seems to point this out, especially in recent news where democrats and cons in our country continue to grill Palestinian support as 'anti- semitism' when it's simply just anti-warmongering and anti-war funding. > just existing as a Christian is against the law in some Muslim countries. Even though some people are mean to Muslims in Europe they are still 100% equal before the law and more than equal in media propaganda See, but as displayed by the NZ shooter, you can _still die_ in the west just for being muslim because of propaganda that suggests that "young men are just following their holy text" and they have zero clue what they're. Pigs know exactly what they're doing isn't holy, there is no science behind this, the same way the shooter knew what he was doing. I know one is 'lawfully looked down at' which also includes death, but death is death, and 40 people died just for being muslim. Most young men here just want to live, ofc you've got slime bags but you know what I'm going to say about that. I can't say much for Europe but even then I have my hopes and doubts for those who're coming right off the boat. > I don't mean to be personal but it sounds like everything you know about Muslims comes from leftist propaganda. It may be a weird way to open this sentence, but I'm black, and I am simply tired of statements being made about the people I live by, I am friends with, I work with, I function with, either for political clout, or to scaremonger an unsure audience into thinking that Mohammed in New York is going to rape your mom if you and her are in an elevator alone. The same people who make these statements are also not afraid to move the goalpost onto people like me. I will say that I do my best to acknowledge propaganda and it gets blatant, but the statements I've been making are only retrospective. You can't expect me to not have a bias against extremists who live to make statements that group an entire race of people as 'clueless rapists' who're simply following a 'holy text', the moment you let them have that, they'll move on to the next. That's what extremism has done forever, regardless of race. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Elliot Alderson · 2019-03-21 01:38 >>10995 correction > See, but as displayed by the NZ shooter, you can _still die_ in the west just for being muslim because of propaganda that suggests that "young men are just following their holy text" and they have zero clue what they're doing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unnamed · 2019-03-21 01:44 >>10993 >>10995 Just to add on to > just existing as a Christian is against the law in some Muslim countries Sorry to be crude, but the tit-for-tat soykaf is exhausting and frankly it gets nowhere when settling on the factor that there should be a political effort to cut either vice is more productive than > If Muslims can kill Christians in the Middle East, why can't Christians kill Muslims in the West? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Turner · 2019-03-21 03:18 >>10991 Not either of you but lain please read before you post. >Someone who regards Muslims as the enemy and doesn't believe there is a global Jewish conspiracy to genocide the white race as revenge for the holocaust that never happened; is nowhere on the traditional right-wing/Nazi spectrum. >and doesn't believe there is a global Jewish conspiracy to genocide the white race as revenge for the holocaust that never happened >doesn't believe He just explicitly stated that the shooter DOES NOT deny the holocaust and DOES NOT spew anti-jew conspiracy soykaf. As for the great replacement, he attributes it to simple economics and declining birthrates (refugees = cheap labor to replacing aging educated EU population), not to a globalist jew conspiracy. Which is reasonable enough imo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Donna Hawthorne · 2019-03-21 07:49 >>10998 the unreasonable part, and the part that is relevant, is that he thought the "great replacement" was bad, and not just that it was bad, that they should be gunned down, and not just that they should be gunned down, but that he was the guy to do it. Dude is off his fuarrrkin rocker, deserves no more sympathy than the hardest meanest psychopath gangster. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Motoko Kusanagi · 2019-03-21 09:44 >>10995 >I think some perspective I would put down here is that people who follow the 'holy text' are at best selective about what their holy text states, Muslims are pretty consistent and uncompromising on the position of women though. Just look at how they dress. >When the Middle East is so close to Europe and is consistently in violent conflict either because of their own doing, or America's warmongering, I would frankly expect most of the migrating demographic to come from that area, only because they don't want to die, and so comes the wrong doing from a part of that demographic who simply loves to reap the benefits of being somewhere they can commit crime. No one seems to point this out, especially in recent news where democrats and cons in our country continue to grill Palestinian support as 'anti- semitism' when it's simply just anti-warmongering and anti-war funding. This is not wrong. Do you see how somebody can go from here to "Jews are the real enemy and Muslims are victims just like us Hitler did nothing wrong, gas the Jews"? Because that's what the far-right actually believe. They don't shoot up mosques. >See, but as displayed by the NZ shooter, you can _still die_ in the west just for being muslim because of propaganda that suggests that "young men are just following their holy text" and they have zero clue what they're. I don't think it's fair to call this propaganda. It is a fact that *many* Muslims have entered Europe in the last few years. It is a fact that a number of them have committed crimes, some of which are not actually crimes where they come from because they have a radically different culture. Is it not reasonable for a white person who seems to think "actually things would be better if the Muslims went away, lets do something to show that they are not welcome"? What I'm pushing back against here is this idea that he must be some kind of brainwashed ultra-racist white supremacist. Why can't a normal person come to this conclusion alone? Yes, actually going out and killing people makes him not normal from a mental health perspective. But this idea that anyone who is not in favor of mass Muslim immigration has to be some kind of extremist is not good. Because more people are going to get pissed off about immigration and if you saying the only way to counter mass immigration is to be a Nazi then you are going to end up with a lot of new Nazis in the near future. >It may be a weird way to open this sentence, That's fine, I'm not attacking you personally. My point is I grew up on a paki estate in England so I know what it's like to live in a majority Muslim community. As a kid I used to run to the shops alone to buy milk because my mother would get harassed on the street for not covering her hair. I get how your situation and life experiences are shaping your position but if there are people who have had more contact with Muslims than you, you should listen to them too. >You can't expect me to not have a bias against extremists who live to make statements that group an entire race of people as 'clueless rapists' who're simply following a 'holy text', the moment you let them have that, they'll move on to the next. I don't think that's a fair summery of what I said. It's not that they're clueless it's just what they are used to in their religion and culture is not acceptable here in Europe but nobody tells them that when they get off the boat so a lot of misunderstandings happen. And for white people who are directly affected by these misunderstandings is it really unreasonable for them to say "go away and leave us alone"? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Batou · 2019-03-21 15:16 >>11000 >the unreasonable part, and the part that is relevant, is that he thought the "great replacement" was bad I think this comes down to a difference of opinion, Lain. Personally, I don't think it is bad for someone to take pride in their culture/people and to want it to continue existing for the foreseeable future. I personally worry about aspects of my own personal "culture" dying out in the near future due to changing ethnic/political/socioeconomic factors. I would go so far as to say I think the death of any culture/people/way of life is a sad thing, even for cannibalistic tribes or what have you. Another way to think of it, we can agree that it was very bad when western colonizers eradicated native american culture in America, yes? By extension, I would argue that the extensive use of missionaries to non-violently spread Judeo-Christian faith to south america was a bad thing, as it destroyed their local cultures. You could certainly paint the gradual death of traditional european cultures along the same lines, a gentle non-violent blending of cultures and faiths that eventually homogenizes to the outsider culture. >that they should be gunned down, and not just that they should be gunned down, but that he was the guy to do it That part I don't really agree with, although you can kind of rationalize his approach when you consider that he was completely powerless within the normal democratic process. His views on migration were actively against the status quo in humanities/politics/media, so one of the only ways he could possibly enact some fragment of his ideology was through physical violence. Again, not saying I agree with it, but it falls within pretty standard lines of reasoning for people who feel trapped/powerless/desperate/isolated ala school shooters. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lady Jessica · 2019-03-21 18:43 >>10877 I don't see the point at all to the attacks. All they've done is make things harder on his groups "cause" and possibly help push for further gun legislation in NZ, even if his guns were smuggled that doesn't matter to legislators. If this were an attack on the individuals that have been causing problems like rape gangs and other criminals living in immigrant communities, I could see the justification, but all I see are supporters treating this as some kind of revenge attack for every act of terrorism in the west despite the fact those same terrorist groups have no issue killing Muslims in their own country that are unaffiliated with them. There's no revenge here. Just a delusional Australian ruining things for New Zealand again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Agent Jones · 2019-03-21 19:55 >>11002 >By extension, I would argue that the extensive use of missionaries to non-violently spread Judeo-Christian faith to south america was a bad thing, Only if you assume all cultures are equal but they are evidently not. Missionaries spread medicine and technology and diplomacy where they went. They made the world a better place by sharing their culture. Sure you can say it is the right of native peoples to reject those things if they want to but they would be fools. >You could certainly paint the gradual death of traditional european cultures along the same lines, The problem is Europe is not some cannibal tribe in the amazon, it's among the most advanced civilizations in the world and replacing those people with 3rd world savages is a net loss for humanity from a purely rational utilitarian perspective. It's not just a case of every culture is precious. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jens Hansen · 2019-03-21 20:53 >>11003 >the point If you skim his manifesto he outlines his reasoning. Basic idea is to accelerate. He argues that NZ is already a lost cause in terms of gun control laws/political dialogue if things continue following status quo, and that the only hope for a revival of his ideology in the public sphere is by accelerating the decline of society. An appropriate analogy would be: Current Society : slowly raising the temperature on a pot of water full of crabs, they eventually cook to death w/o resistance Accelerated: Hurl the crabs into a pot of boiling water after slapping them with ice cubes, hope the resultant spasms are enough to save them >>11004 >The problem is Europe is not some cannibal tribe in the amazon, it's among the most advanced civilizations in the world and replacing those people with 3rd world savages is a net loss for humanity from a purely rational utilitarian perspective. It's not just a case of every culture is precious. Wait lain I think we are arguing for the same thing. I was trying to argue that everyone has a right to want their culture to survive and prosper, including European white men. IE: the great replacement is bad You seem to also be arguing that european culture should be preserved, although from a stance of cultures being unequal. I agree that generally speaking europe > middle eastern culture, but I don't think we need that as a given to argue that european culture deserves to be preserved. I think it is easier to argue that all cultures deserve to be preserved within their own territories than to argue that europe is special and thus should be preserved over other cultures, but it is just a matter of taste. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vasya Pupkin · 2019-03-22 10:49 >>11006 > to argue that europe is special and thus should be preserved over other cultures This was bad wording on my part, I don't mean to be too specific about who is involved. Just generally, the literal definition of a refugee/migrant is somebody who has fuarrrked up their own country so badly that they prefer to live somewhere else. That alone makes your values and culture inferior to that of the countries you are smuggling your way into. It's just insanity to me that we allow people from the Middle East and Africa to flood into Europe and then allow them to continue doing the things that make their homelands unlivable soykafholes. I'm not against helping refugees but if they're in our house they need to play by our rules. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unspecified · 2019-03-22 12:18 What I see a lot of people ITT arguing is not the existence of "great replacement" but whether or not this thing is good. I think we can all agree that Europe and US have birthrates lower than replacement rate (ie. less than 2.1 babies per male/female) and that this thing is in fact happening and that politics in those countries found a temporary solution to import poor cheap labor from 3rd world countries to replace their projected economic growths and keep their population numbers stable, this isn't debatable. What I think is the problem with discussion ITT is the actual debate going into the direction of whether or not this should happen. We all have our own opinions and whether or not this culture/population replacement in west is actually good. Some people might call it long awaited justice for crimes long past. Some people might call it unjust due to achievements of this western culture, and that this isn't a long term sustainable goal. What I think is that this discussion is purely politicized opinions that lead us no discernible solutions but radicalization of both sides and everyone thinking their opinion is right. What I would propose is to shift this discussion towards something more practical and understandable in nature. Namely 2 most important questions that every analytical mind should have in their heads during any topic. >"Why is it happening?" >"How is it happening?" On the first question, we can go into details. Is it happening deliberately with intention of lowering EU & US populations birthrates and destroying their cultures and populations? What are some clear historical situations that made this current situation come to be? Who are people actively advocating for this and why? What do they say what are their "justifications" or intentions behind it? On second question we are getting just clear and main numbers that give us clearer picture of the situation. I think these 2 questions will get us closer to some kind of resolution, on both sides, rather than just discussing opinions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Marly Krushkhova · 2019-03-22 18:37 >>10896 >>10877 >>10904 I compressed and converted [mp4->webm] my copy via ffmpeg (probably did a soykaf job of it) [spoiler][/spoiler] for uploading here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred Nurk · 2019-03-22 18:48 >the lack of basic empathy in this thread jesus, learn to switch it on, it's not hard. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. X · 2019-03-23 02:20 >>11019 Holy soykaf this is too insane for me to watch. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sipho Nkosi · 2019-03-23 14:36 >>11017 >I think these 2 questions will get us closer to some kind of resolution, on both sides, rather than just discussing opinions. Part of it is just a simple bug in democracy. One person == one vote. Lefty politicians across the world are exploiting this bug by importing migrants from poorer countries in exchange for votes. But if the migrants are bringing negative value to society AND disabling democratic ways of changing the status quo then the inevitable result is nationalist violence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- H.R. Giger · 2019-03-23 22:51 >>10987 >The hoards of "refugees" currently raping Europe are not extremists. okay, first. i am curious, are you from europe or is that something you've heard in media? also, no. stop this BS. >The difference is that Muslims are perceived to be "invading" white countries (that is, countries which have been built up and maintained by white people for generations). *looks at my history textbook in the corner* rrriiiiiiight. white people have nver come to a different country and treated citizens terribly. >Absolutely disagree. Muslims behaving badly is what generates bad faith against Muslims. Don't try to blame it on Evil White Men just being cunts for no reason. but it is about evil white cunts... > White nationalists want a world where asian people do their thing in asian countries, white people do their thing in white countries, brown people do their thing in brown countries and we call leave each other the fuarrrk alone repeat that to yourself the next time you download weeb porn. >>10993 oh come on... christianity is full of misogyny and racism... it also condones rape in general. >My point was more things like, just existing as a Christian is against the law in some Muslim countries. Even though some people are mean to Muslims in Europe they are still 100% equal before the law and more than equal in media propaganda. If you think it's comparable then you need a little more perspective. I don't mean to be personal but it sounds like everything you know about Muslims comes from leftist propaganda. sure. but what does that have to do with arseholes mistreating muslims in other countries? >>11001 >Muslims are pretty consistent and uncompromising on the position of women though. Just look at how they dress. come on, you can do better... a) don't tell other people how to dress b) not all women wear burqa or hijab c) many people don't share that opinion... >It is a fact that *many* Muslims have entered Europe in the last few years. for a good reason. and guess who shares the blame for that reason even coming up? >It is a fact that a number of them have committed crimes, some of which are not actually crimes where they come from because they have a radically different culture. unless when it's far right propaganda and the crimes didn't happen or are grossly misrepresented >Is it not reasonable for a white person who seems to think "actually things would be better if the Muslims went away, lets do something to show that they are not welcome"? it is unreasonable to a) think that b) kill people for that >>11002 the difference is we welcome foreigners, they didn't come here with a sword and smallpox ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Leto Atreides I · 2019-03-23 23:00 >>11004 except you can share all of that without pushing your culture down their throats >"3rd world savages" you can't be serious >>11006 > "I agree that generally speaking europe > middle eastern culture" source? also let's stop this white replacement nonsense already, please... >>11016 except that's not what happened >>11017 > Europe and US have birthrates lower than replacement rate (ie. less than 2.1 babies per male/female) my country is still above that, thank you very much. and i still think it's okay for other people come and live here. because guess what, we are a free country. >>11027 and let me guess, it's all Hillary's doing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Masami Eiri · 2019-03-23 23:23 >>11036 >my country is still above that, thank you very much. and i still think it's okay for other people come and live here. because guess what, we are a free country. Look, there is a reason why you ignored the rest of my post and hooked onto one thing that you think I said was incorrect. That is why you use the passive aggressive "thank you very much". Surely you must agree to the point that immigrants (both legal and illegal) are more laborious and that it is a political and economic tool for increased labor to just import immigrants from cheaper countries. EU tried to make this shift to import from cheaper 2nd world slavic eastern european countries into the western ones to increase productivity but their goals failed. Whatever this "it's a free country" platitude means, you can't dispute the fact that politicians use and ABUSE immigrants as a economic tool for cheap labor, no? And hey, if immigrants want to come into our countries seeking for better life I have nothing against that, but we need to look at the situation from both angles, including the politicians and elite multimillionaire corporate interests sides also. Now, one of the things is the birthrate argument, which is also closely connected to economy, but still. By the way, what country are you from? >and i still think it's okay for other people come and live here Are you trying to imply I think otherwise? You have a really insidious way of speaking with others man, take a chill pill. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lady 3Jane.. · 2019-03-24 00:04 >>11037 >you can't dispute the fact that politicians use and ABUSE immigrants as a economic tool for cheap labor, no? and your reaction to that is that we should stop allowing migrants in? Why not just force them to start paying decent wages to immigrants? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Joey · 2019-03-24 00:09 >>11037 >Are you trying to imply I think otherwise? i am not implying anything >Look, there is a reason why you ignored the rest of my post yes. it sounded like pseudo-intellectual bs. (no offense heh) but i might have been aggravated by some posters and their borderline racist ideas >>11039 heh, i was about to write that and then autoupdate happened and i noticed your post ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rick Deckard · 2019-03-24 00:19 >>11037 btw, i seriously love that pic.. that makes me smile every time i see it ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Bloggs · 2019-03-24 00:36 >>11039 >and your reaction to that is that we should stop allowing migrants in? When did I say that? >Why not just force them to start paying decent wages to immigrants? Hypotheticals aren't my cup of tea, sorry. I can't postulate what would be drawbacks to such situation and give you explanation to why not do it. >>11040 >yes. it sounded like pseudo-intellectual bs. (no offense heh) Again with passive aggressive insidious talk. If you want to say that it's pseudo intellectual to try and get concrete facts on hypothetical opinionated poppycock discussion ITT be my guest, but don't be this "no offense" and then adding "heh" to the end of it. It just reflects on you poorly and in my opinion is really childish way of talking, to anyone let alone an anonymous stranger over the internet. >but i might have been aggravated by some posters and their borderline racist ideas Well, however aggravating and infuriating these polirizing discussions often are I like to get to those 3 core tenets of Falun Gong: Truthfulness, Empathy, Forbearance As long as we talk truthfully about facts, as long as we see each other as people instead of some kind of objects, as long as we tolerate others in hopes of coming to some kind of resolution and better tomorrow then we can hold these discussions without getting angry or hostile. >>11042 Thank you, I like posting weird/funny pics to lighten up the mood a little bit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Yamaoto Toshi · 2019-03-24 00:42 >>11043 >When did I say that? I don't know, this is an anonymous imageboard. However you're pretty clearly trying to frame immigration or "the great replacement" as some kind of international corporate scheme that must be stopped, it's like asking leading questions. Not only that, but consider the context: you're asking us to seriously consider the merits of a terrorist's ideology. In another context I might believe that you're not trying to push anything, but here it's hard to see what you're writing as anything but insidious. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Project 2501 · 2019-03-24 00:51 >>11043 i think the problem is that you decided to read all my posts as hostile from then on. it did sound pseudo-intellectual. mostly, because your tone sounded patronising. i am sorry if that offended you, that was my first impression. on the other hand, i don't believe in first impressions and i am ready to change my opinion (i already forgot about it, really) >It just reflects on you poorly *sigh* doublestandards then... >let alone an anonymous stranger over the internet. the problem with (pseudo)anonymity on the internet is that it's kinda impersonal and detaches you from the fact there's a human on the other side. on the other hand, this is definitely *a way* to talk to random people online. i am sorry if you feel like my way of speaking is childish, i won't do anything about it. >Hypotheticals aren't my cup of tea, sorry. well that's too late in this thread, don't you think? >>11044 honestly i am not sure if those are the same person (one of the disadvantages of imageboards, am i right?), but i do agree it sounded a bit... charged against immigrants. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nameless · 2019-03-24 12:55 >>11035 >are you from europe Yes. > also, no. stop this BS. What a solid argument. >rrriiiiiiight. white people have nver come to a different country and treated citizens terribly. What's your point? Some white people did some bad things in the past therefor all white people deserve whatever they get? >but it is about evil white cunts... You can't have it both ways. If white people are not allowed to be angry about anything Muslims do then you are not allowed to be angry about anything white people do. >come on, you can do better... a) don't tell other people how to dress b) not all women wear burqa or hijab c) many people don't share that opinion... This isn't about finding the 1 exception to the rule. Immigrants are flooding Europe. Most of them are Muslim. Many of them are raping women. Muslim religion and culture treats women as subhuman. Connect the dots. >for a good reason. and guess who shares the blame for that reason even coming up? I agree. If my ancestors repeatedly failed to build anything resembling a civilized society after thousands and thousands of years of trying they I would gtfo too. That's not an argument for opening the borders and letting such people swarm inside though. Can you see how some people would see this as an argument for doing the opposite? >unless when it's far right propaganda and the crimes didn't happen or are grossly misrepresented You think the crimes never happened or are being exaggerated by the media. Other people think more crimes happen and the media is covering it up. What makes you think you are correct? >the difference is we welcome foreigners, they didn't come here with a sword and smallpox Clearly not everyone welcomes them. And if you censor dissent and exclude them from the political process then what do you except them to do but start committing acts of violence? This is terrorism 101. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nemissa · 2019-03-24 13:02 >>11036 > "I agree that generally speaking europe > middle eastern culture" >source? The argument was made here >>11016 >the literal definition of a refugee/migrant is somebody who has fuarrrked up their own country so badly that they prefer to live somewhere else. That alone makes your values and culture inferior to that of the countries you are smuggling your way into. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tank · 2019-03-24 19:47 >>10877 I don't care for it on a meta level. I don't come to lainchan for current events or political arguments. I like lainchan for cool discussions on technology topics. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Random · 2019-03-24 21:17 >>11048 >What's your point? Some white people did some bad things in the past therefor all white people deserve whatever they get? that goes both ways, no? >then you are not allowed to be angry about anything white people do. i am white and not a muslim (raised as an atheist actually), so actually it doesn't apply here >Many of them are raping women. Muslim religion and culture treats women as subhuman. Connect the dots. again, source? >What a solid argument. what a witty retort > agree. If my ancestors repeatedly failed to build anything resembling a civilized society after thousands and thousands of years of trying they I would gtfo too. That's not an argument for opening the borders and letting such people swarm inside though. Can you see how some people would see this as an argument for doing the opposite? a) this is just racist bs again b) ummm.... that wasn't what i was talking about >What makes you think you are correct? same goes to you? >Clearly not everyone welcomes them. And if you censor dissent and exclude them from the political process then what do you except them to do but start committing acts of violence? yes. because racists have been excluded from the political process and until recently had never been violent... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anamika · 2019-03-24 21:18 >>11049 i meant actual proof or fact instead of a a stupid "oh they fuarrrked up their country" not-an-actual-argument ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anonymous · 2019-03-24 23:03 >>11016 >Just generally, the literal definition of a refugee/migrant is somebody who has fuarrrked up their own country so badly that they prefer to live somewhere else. >neurosuggesting major natural disasters are peoples fault >neurosuggesting people living under brutal dictatorships where opposition means death is peoples fault >neurosuggesting widespread gang violence by well-trained ruthless criminal organizations is the farmer, factory worker, and common man's fault >neurosuggesting foreign nations fuarrrking up your countries infrastructure or economic system over something your leader said is the peoples fault ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jet Black · 2019-03-25 01:55 It is weird how in todays world a person can't feel prideful about work of few hundred generations that created their genetics, culture and nation and to see yourself as culmination of all that sweat and hard work in creating such a magnificent world we live in. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Case · 2019-03-25 02:04 >>11070 >such a magnificent world we live in Much of that hard work was just killing other people and much of that magnificent world is a polluted cesspool now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Hilger · 2019-03-25 02:05 >>11070 this has literally nothing to do with this. but good job. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Demeere · 2019-03-25 02:05 >>11071 humanity was a mistake ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hong, Guil Dong · 2019-03-25 02:09 >>11070 there is a difference between pride and a feeling of superiority. i am proud for who i am and i am not ashamed to be queer (since it was kinda on the table thanks to your pic), but i have no reason to feel superior for being white. re: "feel prideful about work of few hundred generations" vs your pic - the queer kiddo is queer. that's them. you're talking about something someone who shares your ethnicity did. not that either of that is a reason to be smug. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cypher · 2019-03-25 02:12 >>11074 Nobody feels smug in the pursuit of wanting to preserve their heritage whether it be genetic, cultural or materialistic.. Not superiority but fully prideful. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Oracle · 2019-03-25 02:14 >>11071 Good job on confirming my point about how a person can't feel prideful by posting such self deprecating shame filled post. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Koichiro · 2019-03-25 02:15 >>11075 > the pursuit of wanting to preserve their heritage and what does that have to do with the topic? > genetic what is that good for? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lady Jessica · 2019-03-25 02:16 >>11076 maybe you should try to find actual reasons to be proud of you being (presumably) white then. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mario Rossi · 2019-03-25 02:17 >>10879 or in the world in general :/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unspecified · 2019-03-25 02:20 >>11078 I already did. I am just trying to prove a point with you. Thanks. >>11077 Why are you asking questions? To just hear me answer them? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lain Iwakura · 2019-03-25 02:20 >>11076 That wasn't self-deprecating in the slightest. Consult a dictionary. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Junichi Fujiwara · 2019-03-25 02:21 >>11081 How come? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hououin Kyouma · 2019-03-25 02:22 >>11082 Because what I said was about the state of the entire world, not about my own part in it. That's not "self-deprecating". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hiro Protagonist · 2019-03-25 02:23 >>11083 Oh right, you must be really confident and empowered person and feels pride about their heritage. I am sorry about my assumptions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cereal Killer · 2019-03-25 02:24 >>11080 i don't know what point you want to prove with me... you probably mean the other guy >To just hear me answer them? that's how conversation works, usually. seriously though, what is genetic heritage good for? what should i be proud of? that my father's semen got into my mother and in 9 months she spit me out? should i be proud of that "random" genetic mutation happening in her womb? or should be proud of genetic predisposition to lactose intolerance and cancer? genetics doesn't mean soykaf. cultural heritage is a nice thing, but it really isn't something threatened by immigrants. and if it was, there's one to think about... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean Dupont · 2019-03-25 02:25 >>11083 >>11084 You know, because people that can't stop bitchin about state of the world usually feel pride about accomplishments of their predecessors. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unspecified · 2019-03-25 02:25 >>11084 So... I'm a racist retard or I hate myself? There are no other options? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nguoi La · 2019-03-25 02:26 >>11086 Dude, whatever man... the world is like, a beautiful place. Don't harsh my mellow dude. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Batou · 2019-03-25 02:27 >>11087 well one can be a racist and still hate themselves *shrug* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Koos van der Merwe · 2019-03-25 02:28 >>11089 Well that combination is quite common as I've observed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Masami Eiri · 2019-03-25 02:29 honestly i am just surprised nobody has mentioned the fall of rome yet in this thread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pulse · 2019-03-25 02:29 >>11090 in my opinion that's why they are racist... you know, the only way how they can deal with their own problems, soykafty life, and inner demons. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy Batty · 2019-03-25 02:31 >>11091 Well, they had "bread and circuses" to keep people quiet before the end. We have Netflix and the golden age of television. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SHODAN · 2019-03-25 02:33 >>11085 >that my father's semen got into my mother and in 9 months she spit me out? That the genetic chance, environment and culture over hundreds of thousands of years created a little bit different human. That it took a lot of effort to get you to where you are now. Be prideful for it. >should i be proud of that "random" genetic mutation happening in her womb? No, but the selective nature of natural selection that kills those that environment doesn't like. >genetics doesn't mean soykaf. Except when it does matter, which is why genetic engineering is such a hot topic issue in next few decades. >cultural heritage is a nice thing OH REALLY? And where did this culture sprung out from? The ground? Came from the God above? AND WHY DON'T WE ALL HAVE THE SAME CULTURE THEN? Could it be, WAIT A fuarrrkING SECOND, that different cultures sprung out from different genetics and environments? I mean, I never seen Eskimos worship Sun Gods. I never seen barbaric countries have egalitarian cultures where they have more socialistic leanings.... fuarrrk me man, it is almost as if people that live in those environments create cultures as culminations of genetics and their environments. >but it really isn't something threatened by immigrants I mean yea. Not like importing vast numbers of people that are socially isolated with language and culture into your country will in any way shape or change your own culture.... that is ridiculous to think. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Faye Valentine · 2019-03-25 02:34 >>11093 nobody's giving *me* free avocado toasts though. seriously though, the world is a quite soykafty place. but it's always been. one can't really look at the history and think it was better back then. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zero Cool · 2019-03-25 02:37 >>11094 >be proud of a pure genetic chance >No, but the selective nature of natural selection that kills those that environment doesn't like. that's not how it works, man >Except when it does matter, which is why genetic engineering is such a hot topic issue in next few decades. *cough* one more reason why genetic heritage doesn't mean soykaf *cough* > if people that live in those environments create cultures as culminations of genetics and their environments. i doubt it has anything to do with genetics >I mean yea. Not like importing vast numbers of people that are socially isolated with language and culture into your country will in any way shape or change your own culture.... that is ridiculous to think. a) they can learn the language b) you've been talking about evolution. culture does evolve too. your culture is (presumably) not the same as it was a hundred years ago (correct me if i am wrong) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nemissa · 2019-03-25 02:38 >>11094 >socialistic leanings.... well, the whole "immigrants are bad and my culture is great because it's european" isn't that leftist either hun ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dujour · 2019-03-25 02:38 >>11095 The world being better back then wasn't the point at all. There's this saying about people not knowing history being doomed to repeat it... perhaps you've heard of it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Yet Another Lainon · 2019-03-25 02:40 >>11098 yes. your point? that our bureaucracy and inefficient administration could have an effect on the downfall of our civilisation? probably, yeah. but hey, there's gonna be something else (unless we kill each other before then) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sabo Engle · 2019-03-25 03:12 >>11099 > your point? Don't think I can state it any clearer than I have, sorry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Drifter · 2019-03-25 12:02 >>11055 >that goes both ways, no? Yes it does go both ways. Nobody said anything different except you. Weird way to admit you were wrong but ok. >i am white and not a muslim (raised as an atheist actually), so actually it doesn't apply here >uses race as a get out of jail card >accuses everyone else of being racist Talk about hypocrisy. >again, source? Source for what? Take Saudi Arabia. Women are literally property of their fathers. Whey they get married they are the property of their husbands. When their fathers/husbands die they become to property of their closest male relative, even their sons if there is no one else. That is the kind of culture we are dealing with here. Women are subhuman. >same goes to you? I didn't say anything. Both sides could be wrong as far as I'm concerned. You are the one who asserted that the media is fabricating and exaggerating immigrant crimes. I understand why you *want* to believe that but the question is what actual evidence do you have. >yes. because racists have been excluded from the political process and until recently had never been violent... That should give you a clue about how bad the immigration problem is getting in the real world outside your little political bubble then. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Arctor · 2019-03-25 12:18 >>11056 >i meant actual proof or fact instead of a a stupid "oh they fuarrrked up their country" not-an-actual-argument You are just moving the goal posts; continuously asking for more evidence with no intention of accepting anything you're shown. The argument is fine as it is >brown people are immigrating to white countries en masse >white people are not immigrating to brown countries at all => white culture is superior ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rick Deckard · 2019-03-25 12:43 dem crazy kiwis streamed on facebook is a problem vastly for smaller websites ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Emmanuel · 2019-03-25 14:03 >>11109 at this point i am sure you're a troll >>11108 >Weird way to admit you were wrong but ok. let me reformulate that. if white people can't be blamed, don't blame others either >Talk about hypocrisy. not at all, from my experience people "accuse" me of not being white and hating white people... so wanted to make sure lains in this thread understand where i am coming from > Take Saudi Arabia. wow. you based your prejudice towards a religion on a country... >That should give you a clue about how bad the immigration problem is getting in the real world outside your little political bubble then. that was sarcasm, hun. also i think we both are in a political bubble by your logic. > the question is what actual evidence do you have. mainly when it's been misrepresented. but i am not denying crimes don't happen/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unnamed · 2019-03-25 15:56 >>10994 Just dug this up, looks like the first mosque he targeted reportedly radicalized at least 2 adults and openly admits to preaching salafism. https://web.archive.org/web/20190318100919/http://stuff.co.nz/world/mi ddle-east/10310496/A-kiwi-lads-death-by-drone Funnily enough this article disappeared right around March 18-20th, a few days after the shooting (March 15). >>11112 Not the guy you were replying to but holy soykaf lain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Saudi_Arabia "Islam is the state religion of Saudi Arabia. The connection between Islam and Saudi Arabia (or at least the western Hejaz region of the country) is uniquely strong. The kingdom, which sometimes is called the "home of Islam"..." "Islam plays a central role in Saudi society. It has been said that Islam is more than a religion, it is a way of life in Saudi Arabia, and, as a result, the influence of the ulema, the religious establishment, is all-pervasive...." If a country is so infatuated with a given faith that they openly say "it defines our entire way of life", isn't it possible that the country is representative of that faith? Not trying to get too worked up here, but I am struggling to understand how Saudi Arabia can be denied as demonstrative of the effects of a certain form of Islam being enforced via socioeconomic and political power. Now you can backtrack and argue that not all muslims are salafi's or wahaddi's and that is fine and well, but you must concede that for salafi and wahaddi muslims, Saudi Arabia represents, to at least a reasonable approximation, what they think a godly society would look like. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Project 2501 · 2019-03-25 16:00 >>11113 but i never argued that. i said you can't judge muslims by saudi arabia. we try to not do the same with christians either... so what is it about islam that people cherry pick bad example? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zhora · 2019-03-25 16:56 >>11112 >wow. you based your prejudice towards a religion on a country... A country that is completely structured around said religion both legally and socially. >mainly when it's been misrepresented. but i am not denying crimes don't happen/ More back peddling. >>11035 >unless when it's far right propaganda and the crimes didn't happen or are grossly misrepresented >everyone who disagrees with me is a troll The last refuge of the delusional. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anamika · 2019-03-25 17:26 >>11109 This is a bit harsh. One thing that is often missed in these types of discussions is that the people abandoning their homelands and traveling 1000s of miles and across the sea to get into Europe are not doctors and engineers or anywhere near middle class. They are basically the islamic equivalent of rednecks. Imagine that as a thought experiment. Take 1 million or so trailer park white trash rednecks from the south and dump in them Tokyo or Seoul. How do you think things will play out? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unspecified · 2019-03-25 21:37 I don't understand leftists ITT that try to argue that identities like ethnicity and nationality have no weight IRL when it's basic winning strategy in social interactions that has been mathematically proven. We are social beings, and our power is numbers, and ethnocentric strategy is one that wins over in the end. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Bloggs · 2019-03-25 22:39 >>11119 > mathematically proven Except it hasn't. Look up the term "confirmation bias" and get back to us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Bloggs · 2019-03-25 23:56 >>11120 Did you even look at the paper? Lmao ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Masami Eiri · 2019-03-26 19:06 >>11120 >Except it hasn't. Look up the term "confirmation bias" and get back to us. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias >Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses. The implication being that there is other evidence, or an interpretation of the already shown evidence, which disproves the argument. And you should be able to post it. You can't just shout "confirmation bias" at everything you disagree with and leave it at that. That's Bulverism (go look that one up and get back to us). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dozer · 2019-03-27 21:27 if anyone is interested in the paper they didn't cite btw, it's right here http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/16/3/7.html the conclusions of the paper: the "ethnocentrics" in their model won out because they are exploitative of humanitarians. Also, in the absence of "ethnocentrism", "humanitarianism" wins. They didn't even try to model tit-for-tat exchange, which is by far the most common way for people irl to interact (being nice to people makes other people more likely to be nice to you) and also the most consistently beneficial strategy in multiple iterations of the prisoner's dilemma. Basically their model is too simplistic to draw conclusions from. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unnamed · 2019-03-27 22:55 To the response of person who made the post about ethnocentrism, I think I have read somewhere that implicit bias is ingrained in everyones mind and that everyone innately have subconscious negative response to people outside their "group" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dozer · 2019-03-27 22:56 I removed a lot of soykafposts from this thread and will be removing more, but try harder to follow rules 3 and 4. For ease of reference, I will list them: >Rule 3. Always argue in good faith and avoid using personal attacks. > Rule 4. You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Miho Iwakura · 2019-03-27 23:14 >>11137 >tit-for-tat exchange it's called "individualism" or "selfishness" in the paper. >Also, in the absence of "ethnocentrism", "humanitarianism" wins So? That is like saying "if only earthquakes didn't happen then people that live on oceanic rift would live a bit better lives". Yea, no soykaf. Fact of reality is that, existence of ethnocentric behavior isn't only ingrained in our psyche through thousands of years of tribal instincts (I remember one paper long ago where they flashed neutral faces of white and black people to white and black observers and observers had more positive response to faces of their own races) but also that ethnocentric or in-group preference behavior is inevitability due to social behavior rules. We are stronger in numbers, and like people that are just like us. Therefore we will unite against a same enemy and towards a same goal which will make all of us stronger. Be it race, ethnicity, career, ideology. People will form groups and have in-group preferences. >being nice to people makes other people more likely to be nice to you Wow, thanks for explanation of this, didn't know. >and also the most consistently beneficial strategy in multiple iterations of the prisoner's dilemma Prisoner's dilemma doesn't pertain to group behavior but individuals behavior therefore in this discussion your mention of it is irrelevant >Basically their model is too simplistic to draw conclusions from Maybe you should tell them that and correct them. Or is it that you don't have credentials strong enough to be considered worthy of their time to listen to your critique. All you did was imply your intellect by having a simple explanation of vast topics of human psyche. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Agent Richard Gill · 2019-03-27 23:28 wow this really starts reading like some pathetic ass soykaf, how boring, I thought thread was off to an interesting start too darn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lady Jessica · 2019-03-27 23:48 >>11154 you should have seen before all the extremely bad posts were deleted, these are just the ones that were left. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Batou · 2019-03-28 20:32 >>11154 It's hard to find leftists who can hold an argument. Most just play the racist card straight away then run away crying when it doesn't work. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Apoc · 2019-03-29 04:38 >>11153 >it's called "individualism" or "selfishness" in the paper. the four strategies they considered: SelfishA strategy of defecting against all other agents. Traitor A strategy of cooperating with agents of a different tag and defecting against agents of one's own tag. EthnocentricA strategy of cooperating with agents of one's own tag and defecting against agents with a different tag. HumanitarianA strategy of cooperating with all other agents. >Prisoner's dilemma doesn't pertain to group behavior but individuals behavior therefore in this discussion your mention of it is irrelevant prisoner's dilemma is directly discussed as the underlying game being played within individuals in this model. >Maybe you should tell them that and correct them. I'm sure they've heard these exact criticisms before, it's not like they're difficult to point out. They even explicitly make these same points that I'm making. >Or is it that you don't have credentials strong enough to be considered worthy of their time to listen to your critique. yes, that is the only possible reason. Definitely. >>11156 yeah, it was all these damn leftists dissing a psychopath murderer. Real shame. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Demeere · 2019-03-29 09:28 He killed unarmed people ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hououin Kyouma · 2019-03-29 10:37 >>11159 I agree, if only they had guns stashed in the basement of the mosque like all those other muslims. Lmao ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Trinity · 2019-03-29 10:43 I think thia ia timely retribution in reaponse to what muslims have been doing to white people all this time. However couple dozen people isn't even as close as equivalent as thousands raped killed stolen from just in past few years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Project 2501 · 2019-03-29 12:47 >>11161 a proud Neto doing her part ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. X · 2019-03-29 22:51 I can feel this thread being on the verge of closure so let me just voice my thoughts. This the result of years of cultivated radicalization. I tried to warn these people about this too, that if they let themselves be radicalized then they'll become the nazi scapegoat the establishment so desperately wanted to be real. But did they listen? fuarrrk no. Instead they snarked at me about "optics". They only have themselves to blame. They could have done like any sane person does when they see someone from their group getting violent: tell them to fuarrrk off and call them a fed, even if they're not. But instead, they let it get this way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Apoc · 2019-03-29 22:57 >>11164 When they all hit 30, realize they still have a job they hate and no girlfriend and that everyone thinks they are dangerous wingnuts, the alt-right will finally dry up and blow away. It happens to all subcultures, only this one won't be remembered for contributing anything in terms of art or culture except a cartoon frog. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Guthrie · 2019-03-30 01:02 its disgusting and makes me think counter violence is the only answer. even worse as someone who used to be politics board kid and i know after this happened they were all celebrating. i know these people have no concept of the weight of human life or the suffering they cause because i know i was like that. thats the worst part i think. and there is no grand revelation i get from all this, its not like I can go "oh hey I used to be like you and i changed" that doesnt mean soykaf. I dont get any kind of ethos from the fact that I used to argue the same soykaf and celebrate crap like this. I just have an understanding of how someone gets there and how awful they can be and I have a lot of regret. If someone said something like that in real life is feel 100% justified in just attacking them, like if I went to jail id feel like im a victim of the state because I was doing the right thing. if I died, even if I got shot by lets say some shooter from "the other side" (me being white and having a crucifex necklace as well as religious tattoos), id feel like a martyr or something. Like it was worth dying there. and i know thats not right too so I try not to say that or think like that. everyone loses until everyone wins. violence is cyclical. but this specific instance such complete disregard for human life, and I KNOW hes not mentally ill. I dont even think hes a psychopath, I feel like any number of people on this board could do the same fuarrrking thing. You just have to have a view of reality through this lens, and see life as kind of this game. Could that have been me even? I dont think so, my friends say im too understanding in this sense. Like the fact is I didnt stay like that, while many of these people do. But its still easy for me to just understand and so I feel like "I did that too, I could have done that shooting". this one just really got to me more than any of the other ones and I also know its the one that made the people i hate so so much laugh the hardest. like someone will probably laugh at this post too because its just not real to them "sub to pewdiepie XD". but fuarrrking listen please, im extreme lefty so I dont want to see this ever but think about this. This wasnt somebody in i dont know Israel or India who had a relative who got blown up by a Muslim suicide bomber. Its some dude who reads about these things and sees these things online and then gets annoyed at some lady in a Hijab being loud in public and somehow forces himself to have personal stake in the issue by equating his minor annoyances with terrorist attacks. Im in some ways doing the same fuarrrking thing and I shouldnt. I dont think its ever okay to get revenge anyways on civilians for something committed by somebody who happens to share their religion or ethnicity, that should be obvious you should know this isnt a good thing and maybe like me just get fired up and say it. But to do that without even having any personal stake in the issue besides "there is more muslims in my country now". I get even more annoyed because you know there was a time when the right was fairly well versed on lefts arguments and it was the left that didnt understand the right wasnt all midwestern rednecks but its almost the opposite now. In reality its probably equal, you people who support this only see and read the worst of the worst arguments by "sjw snowflake left". Half the time the basis for soykaf like this is clash of civilizations theory, that theres just something about islam that makes it incompatible with the west and creates "muslim rage" just by them living here. There is so many critiques of this available and instead you choose to decide that the only counterargument the left has is "Islam is a religion of peace!". Its not either, just like any other religion. There is so many different sects and groups practicing, ESPECIALLY because Islam isnt like the bible where its set in stone. Islamic extremism, ISIS's teachings, are actually considered a modernist interpretation. Its a recent development, Islamic scholars at one point probably translated your favorites of greek literature and much of the ideals ended up being implemented into the popular interpretation of the QuRan. Its not monolithic, perhaps the biggest reason its so easy to target them and paint them as extremists is that maybe one fairly consistent thing is they dont believe religion is seperate from daily life. Its not secular like christianity has become. I feel like those of you who would condone this attack arent my fellow man even. Do you really want to do the right thing and do you really care about the truth or do you just enjoy being reactionary, do you just enjoy being in a mob, or do you just enjoy having some kind of life purpose. Do you just want to see the world burn and if so do you even actually know what you are burning? I hate distinctions of barbarism and civilized, races and countries in nonage and those who are rational, I think its all soykaf. But if we take all these ideas about natural rights, the value of civilization, the values of our white christian society, you guys are becoming the barbarians yourselves. None of your ideaological leaders, even if that person is mr Varg Vikernes or something extreme, would condone this soykaf I feel like. Your acting against your principles im almost sure always, and you are going to get a lot of people hurt on all sides. I know how you see the left and you see them as very weak but its not always gonna be like that and I dont want to see indiscriminate killings from my side of the block either. I believe violence is sometimes the answer specifically against an oppressor but not against civilians, I dont believe you guys have an oppressor, but I know you do. Why dont you target them instead by god, target ISIS and groups radicalizing Muslims and even non muslims to be enemies of the west. Target whatever millionaire is funding some campaign to present Islam is a religion of peace, I would rather in fact you target some scholar writing radical left papers. Id like to engage in that sort of activity and I think I will so il tell you what in 10 years come over and shoot me instead. Id rather you shoot nobody and only do so to defend yourself from harm. If you cant id rather you target radical groups on the other side. If you cant do that id rather you target those providing the literature for them. But I do not ever ever want to see this kind of thing, and I force myself to watch it amyways because I feel like its such a luxury to just be able to see I dont want to look at that. And I feel like its important to bear witness. And I watch it and I want to do the same fuarrrking thing and destroy, kill, torture, rape, the worst I can think of to anyone wearing a red make america great again hat. But I dont think I ever will, and I still dont know if im worse or better for that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Terzibashjian · 2019-03-30 01:22 >>11166 Quality post in this ocean of piss thread. >And I watch it and I want to do the same fuarrrking thing and destroy, kill, torture, rape, the worst I can think of to anyone wearing a red make america great again hat. >But I dont think I ever will, and I still dont know if im worse or better for that. This part confused me. Aren't you obviously better to not want to kill innocent people who simply have a different opinion? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armitage · 2019-03-30 04:02 >>11167 a lot of the people wearing those hats are the same people who, in their deepest darkest hearts, support what this man has done ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cat Mother · 2019-03-30 06:45 >>11167 I feel like yes and no. In some ways I feel like a failure to friends, like I have an obligation to do that. Like part of me feels like those people really are the enemy. Its hard for me to see how even some "sjw" screaming is equivalent to somebody who fundamentally as I see it, doesnt value certain peoples lives. Let alone compare that to people praying in a mosque who welcom this man with a gun. But I think morally its the right choice, like when I die I would deeply regret killing someone who wasnt directly involved in the business of harm. It would be like my memory I go out with. Which I feel is right depends on how spiritual im feeling that day. If all I saw was the material world and I do often the former seems like the right choice. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ender · 2019-03-30 10:22 >>11166 >its disgusting and makes me think counter violence is the only answer. >If someone said something [I disagree with] in real life is feel 100% justified in just attacking them, Good start there ghandi. >But to do that without even having any personal stake in the issue besides "there is more muslims in my country now". And they are making the country worse and political/non-violent ways of fixing the problem are disappearing. You are grossly misrepresenting his position to make it look unreasonable instead of countering in good faith. >I get even more annoyed because you know there was a time when the right was fairly well versed on lefts arguments and it was the left that didnt understand the right wasnt all midwestern rednecks but its almost the opposite now. So when you were a "politics board kid" you understood how stupid the other side was and nobody could understand how brilliant your side was. Now you are a "extreme lefty" you understand how stupid the other side is and nobody can understand how brilliant your side is? That's so deep. >There is so many critiques of this available and instead you choose to decide that the only counterargument the left has is "Islam is a religion of peace!" You can masturbate over different "critiques" in your middle class ivory tower as much as you want but the only thing that matters to people on the ground is how they see Muslims behaving on *their* streets and many don't like what they see. >I dont believe you guys have an oppressor, but I know you do. >Why dont you target them instead by god, target ISIS and groups radicalizing Muslims and even non muslims to be enemies of the west. If someone thinks Muslims are invading their country and destroying their way of life why would they target anyone else? >target ISIS and groups radicalizing Muslims >I would rather in fact you target some scholar writing radical left papers. You are projecting your own values onto everyone else. Nationalist don't give a fuarrrk what Muslims believe as long as they believe it in their own countries. >And I watch it and I want to do the same fuarrrking thing and destroy, kill, torture, rape, the worst I can think of to anyone wearing a red make america great again hat. You seem to have some serious self awareness problems here. How do you rationally justify "not all Muslims" and at the same time wanting to kill anybody you see with a red hat? You sound exactly the same as the people you hate so much just with the variables transposed. >>11167 >Quality post in this ocean of piss thread. Don't throw your standards out the window just because somebody vaguely agrees with you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Case · 2019-03-30 14:13 >>11171 I just thought it was quality because he actually explained himself without being boring, I barely agreed with it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Linda Lee · 2019-04-01 15:44 >>11171 >Now you are a "extreme lefty" you understand how stupid the other side is and nobody can understand how brilliant your side is? That's so deep. pic related >>11159 We've already covered this earlier in the thread, but: Read his manifesto, consider his motivations, then consider his possible routes of action. I'm not saying we should condone his actions, but if you cannot understand why someone would carry out an act of terror or why they became radicalized, how can you expect to prevent future attacks? Limiting access to munitions just makes attacks require more planning, changing the way future radicals think makes the world a safer place. >>11166 >so many teachings, not all muslims are radical, but they are not secular Lain I think you are missing a key point, it is the non-radical, non- secular muslims that are causing the most harm to their host countries. Sure terror attacks are bad, a few people get knifed or hit by the trolley, but the real danger are incompatibilities in lifestyle between the host countries of migrants and their new western homes. See [1]. Those men were not radicals, foaming at the bit for western blood. They were simply living as their holy text and previous culture told them was acceptable. Secular muslims would be alright except they provide a shroud of rationality for the darker parts of the religion to masquerade behind. Full disclosure: Replace the word "muslim" in the only the preceding sentence with christian or any other faith and you have I statement that I believe is equally valid. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_ scandal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Acid Burn · 2019-04-01 20:04 >>11184 The sad thing about Rotherham is that they weren't refugees fresh off a boat, they were born in the UK, 2nd generation+ immigrants from Pakistani ancestors. Muslims just don't integrate into UK society. They take over entire streets or even towns and continue doing the same soykaf that makes their home countries unlivable soykafholes. It's not just Muslims though. Indians are just as bad sometimes, beating the soykaf out of their teenage daughters for refusing to fuarrrk some random cousin they've picked out for her. >Secular muslims would be alright except they provide a shroud of rationality for the darker parts of the religion to masquerade behind. Full disclosure: Replace the word "muslim" in only the preceding sentence with christian or any other faith and you have I statement that I believe is equally valid. I don't think it's necessarily exclusive to religion. The problem is with incestuous cultures that can't or refuse to learn and adapt (with religion being the primary reason in many cases). Japan is an excellent counter-example. How many times has Japan been devastated by superior western technology? Every time they got their soykaf together and improved themselves. They didn't just run away to richer countries looking for free stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Special Agent Bob · 2019-04-01 20:27 >>11166 Well, this is definitely one of the more unique perspectives I've seen. >its disgusting and makes me think counter violence is the only answer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Donna Hawthorne · 2019-04-02 00:57 >>11184 >Lain I think you are missing a key point, it is the non-radical, non- secular muslims that are causing the most harm to their host countries. ah, so it's the people who by definition aren't trying to rock the boat who are bad. I see. This makes perfect sense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Agent Richard Gill · 2019-04-02 01:01 >>11185 >How many times has Japan been devastated by superior western technology? once >Every time they got their soykaf together and improved themselves. They were forced into the Marshall plan along with the non-USSR parts of Europe. Japan is prosperous for exactly the same reason why western Europe is prosperous. >They didn't just run away to richer countries looking for free stuff. there is a huge japanese diaspora my dude. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ishikura "Tatsu" Tatsuhiko · 2019-04-02 11:19 >>11188 It's arguable whether the Japanese went to Hawaii on their own free will. They were mainly contract laborers for the sugar plantations that were bound to leave as soon as the contract term was up; again, not out for themselves or free stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Drano · 2019-04-02 13:49 >>11188 Also there are about 2 million Japanese in the diaspora, compared with 100 million people in Japan, whereas there are over 10 million Syrians in their diaspora, compared with about 20 million people in Syria. I wouldn't call 0.2% of the world population "huge". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hagbard Celine · 2019-04-02 18:26 >>11188 >once The first time Portuguese ships arrived with gunpower it didn't go so well for them either. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vasya Pupkin · 2019-04-02 18:32 >>11187 >ah, so it's the people who by definition aren't trying to rock the boat who are bad. I see. This makes perfect sense. What definition is that? They don't run people over with trucks but their actions and attitudes are still corrosive. A million paper cuts can be just as bad as a single bullet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Oracle · 2019-04-04 00:00 Really disappointed with all the lainons who for whatever reason have fallen for the far-right's rhetoric in this thread. A century ago the line was "The Italians/Irish/Pollacks are destroying our culture, taking our jobs and subverting our religious values!" The country still exists, white people still exist, nothing's changed but their acceptance into mainstream society. And besides, it's the far- right who tacitly admits that these immigrants stay in their own communities and don't assimilate. What does that mean? Whites will still exist, because no matter the faux demographic change statistics they provide, people of the same race overwhelming prefer people of the same race (shocker). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Junichi Fujiwara · 2019-04-04 02:15 Guy was a hero, he didn't do anything objectively wrong. He accomplished his primary objective, dead muslims. The secondary objectives of crackdowns was to make the people he opposed show their hand. He has accomplished this in spades. And lains should be paying close attention to the censorship techniques, language, and ideas being thrown around right now since these things are now being rushed. Rushed, and imperfect. As to Mr. Tarrant, it's perfectly level, the time for debate is over the populists in the election who were the only chance at compromise failed or have turned their back to the base. Simply this, by 2050 there will not of the Allied and Axis nations in WW2 exist a majority white nation. That is not deniable it is a stated fact. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world And has been for decades at this point at the behest of the intelligentsia and governments of the world. To expect every white person to be a minority in their country peacefully is not only sickening its ridiculous. It will carry with it the social disarray and decay of the Yugoslav Republic and Brazil all in one. At this moment in Burger foreign gangs are already moving in and have compromised border counties. https://www.foxnews.com/us/members-of-mexican-drug-cartel-indicted-in- virginia https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/us/drugs-crossing-border.html >The corruption that took down those three border sheriffs in 1994, 2005 and 2014 continues today. Next month, the former police chief in the town of La Joya is scheduled to go on trial, after he was indicted on drug charges and accused by federal authorities of helping a drug- trafficking organization ttaransport narcotics while working as a police sergeant in Progreso, Tex. There is no single reason to believe that this trend will not only continue but intensify. The defensive organs of these societies are poisoned. They are not assimilating, not because they can't but because they choose not to. Adopting the soft tendencies to live with porn, tv, and video games is not assimilating, its partaking of our poison. These cartels require the hispanic population in the US to give them a cover to operate under. No hispanics in town or nearby means no cartel, its undeniable. Tarrant's actions are the reactionary response to this poison. He hit at the organ of which things like Cartels and Rape Gangs operate, without caring about who he hit. That does more damage to them than anything, they're on edge, they know they're not welcome, where's the next vigilante coming from? Its a call to open warfare, that is what the act was. Because the whole root of this problem is that whites are being replaced in their country. White's aren't needed anymore, you made the stuff - thanks; they'll take it. For the question of why people are confused he'd attack and make things harder on people. Get rid of the do-nothings and cowards from the tip of the spear. On this timeline, there's thirty years likely less, for these people to act. They've been organizing since the 50's and haven't accomplished a thing. And you can't have cowards in your ranks holding you back.