16e1
Subj : Re: This Train Just Went Splat!
To   : alt.tv.er
From : npardue
Date : Sun Sep 25 2005 09:46:49

From Newsgroup: alt.tv.er

The rest of my reply....


> >
> > The act of breastfeeding an infant is more
> >> reasonable to me because they are helpless and need constant help and
> >> attention to sustain their lives.
> >
> > I guess I'm not following this argument.  Why  is it ok for helpless
> > infants, but not for older kids?  Many helpless infants are also
> > bottlefed. Maybe I'm misreading you, but what it SOUNDS like you are
> > saying is, essentially, "I guess it's ok to breastfeed as long as the
> > child is too young to understand what he's doing ... that it's really
> > sort of disgusting but I guess there are enough health benefits to make
> > it acceptable for a tiny baby." Please do correct me if I'm jumping to
> > conclusions here.
> >
>
> I don't think it is disgusting, in fact, when I have kids, they will
> probably be breastfed for the first few months.  I do think that when a
> child is old enough to understand what they are doing, it is time to worry
> about boundaries and if continuing to breastfeed is really the best thing
> for the child.
>
And again, while the need for 'boundaries' is certainly important, I
think you are viewing from from an adult POV, not a toddler one. It is
really NOT harmful for a child to 'understand what he's doing', when
he's breastfeeding.  What he 'understands' is that he is being
comforted/fed/held by his mother.  He's not viewing it (as some adults
might tend to this) as (pardon my language) "Wow! Look at this! I'm
sucking on this hot mama's tit!" It's NOT about sex, it's about the
love between a mother and child.


> > Very true.  But they can also breastfeed, and sometimes do. (Also worth
> > noting that many people who find it 'wrong' for a toddler to breastfeed
> > see nothing wrong with a toddler drinking from a bottle or sucking on a
> > pacifier.)
> >
>
> well, I am not one of those, for the record.  I think that everything has an
> expiration date.  After all, kids can't be kids forever, they do grow up
> even though some parents don't like to admit it.  I think bottles should be
> phased out by 1 or so and a pacifier shortly after that but again, that's
> just me and I will be able to provide other alternatives to my children
> instead of using those objects for comfort.

I just hope that your potential children are cooperative with your
timeline? (And what will you do if they start sucking their thumbs?
You can't take those away.)
>

>
>
> When my nephews were younger, they would sometimes come in the shower with
> me.  Shortly before age 2, it was decided that switching to a "don't offer,
> don't refuse" policy would help the child to learn that it will not always
> be appropriate to come in the shower with me.  When either of them asked,
> they were mostly told yes but sometimes told no if it was unconvenient at
> the time.  Shortly after he was 2, the answer was always no because "he was
> getting to be big boy and didn't need so much help washing."  Once, when one
> of my nephews was 4, he asked me to please join him in the tub (he usually
> shares with his younger brother but he had gone to bed already).  I told him
> no and compromised by throwing the dog (toy poodle) in to splash around with
> him.  It didn't do him any harm to be told no and he had lots of fun without
> me.

Sure, that's cool. Whatever works for YOU.  OTOH (as I learned in
another thread here last year), in many families children and adults of
all ages freely move in and out of the bathroom while other family
members are in there using various facilities. In our house I have no
problem with dressing/changing in front of Shaina, nor she in front of
me. (Though the bathroom is always private.) My husband, OTOH, began
'covering up' in front of Shaina sometime during the preschool years.
Whatever works.

But the point is that, whatever ADULTS might feel about it, young
children don't tend to think of nudity (their own or their parents) in
sexual terms. At the preschool where I worked the bathroom doors were
always open.  Toileting was a communal activity.(When I would take a
child to the toilet, if they were old enough to manage alone I would
politely turn my back and wait outside, but very often they would ask
me to come in and talk with them while they pee'd. (And most of the
kids, even the 5 year olds  still needed help with wiping.)
Sometimes on hot days we'd bring the kids outside and turn on the
sprinklers. They didn't usually have bathing suits at school so we just
stripped them down to their undies and let them play. (They always had
spare underwear in their cubbies, so we could put on dry things when we
went back inside) A few kids didn't want to undress and we didn't make
them, but most were absolutely comfortable with it. Little girls (and
boys ...) would lift up their shirts and dresses and pretend to
breastfeed dolls. (On the otherhand, we did enforce reasonable 'social
boundaries' for this sort of thing.  Being naked in the bathroom or
under the sprinklers was fine. Being naked in the classroom was not.
(What was the breastfeeding status of these kids? Dunno.  I know that a
few of the toddlers and 2's were still being breastfed, because
sometimes the would nurse when when Mom came to pick them up.  Most of
the others ... haven't a clue. None of my business. And I certainly
didn't notice any difference in 'comfortablility' or 'boundaries' with
the kids I knew were still nursing and those I didn't.

 Little kids don't see these things as sexual, and there's REALLY no
huge rush to make them. (Remember on ER, Luka talking about how Marko
was taking a bath with his older sister?)

Naomi

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