Path: news1.icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in5.uu.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.clear.net.nz!news.wlg.netlink.net.nz!news.actrix.gen.nz!dempson From: dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Subject: Re: DOS 3.3 & ProDOS & other Apple II OSs Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:41:25 +1200 Organization: Empsoft Lines: 158 Message-ID: <1dq0m5d.jjumy61cvyouoN@dempson.actrix.gen.nz> References: <370D5DBC.38375DD3@Concentric.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: news2.actrix.gen.nz X-Newsreader: MacSOUP 2.3 Xref: news1.icaen comp.sys.apple2:146718 Gabriel Morales wrote: > What are the fundamental differences between DOS 3.3 & ProDOS to a new > Apple II user? The major differences that occur to me, at a user-visible level: Without special software or a patched version, DOS 3.3 only works with 5.25" disks, and in any case a volume is limited to 400 KB. ProDOS works with pretty much any type of drive, and can support volume sizes up to 32 MB. ProDOS supports subdirectories, DOS 3.3 does not. ProDOS filenames are more restrictive: fifteen characters, using letters digits and periods only (must start with a letter). DOS 3.3 can use up to 30 characters in a filename, with almost no restrictions. DOS 3.3 has a small set of file types, while ProDOS has a large number of unique types, which help to identify which application created a data file. ProDOS supports date and time stamping of files, while DOS 3.3 does not (unless patched, which has compatibility problems and limits the length of filenames). Applications nearly always work with the appropriate operating system only (in some cases with different versions for DOS 3.3 and ProDOS). If you have to run a particular application, you may have no choice about which operating system to use. > For which is there more software available? Probably ProDOS by now, but there are an awful lot of small programs which run under DOS 3.3. Nearly all of them are pretty old. In any case, a large number of DOS 3.3 programs (e.g. games) don't let you use the operating system in any meaningful way, so you can effectively ignore it. Application support under ProDOS is better organised, with easy support for program selectors, for example. > What other operating systems are available for the Apple II (I know of > at least the GS OS, of course)? First a few side notes: There is ProDOS-16, which is the predecessor of GS/OS. From the user's point of view, they are very similar. GS/OS is better all round. (ProDOS-16 only works on the IIgs.) There are also earlier versions of DOS 3.3. The first released version was 3.1, but 3.2.1 was the next most common after 3.3. Earlier versions were pretty similar as far as the user was concerned, except that 3.3 increased the disk capacity from 113.75KB to 140KB. Conversion utilities are needed to go between earlier versions and 3.3 (or vice versa). Some programs (particularly games) have no operating system (as such) at all, or use a proprietary self-contained one. For example, Ultima V has an operating system called "DinkeyDOS", which uses the ProDOS file system but has a different application programming interface (and no user interface to speak of). The other major operating system for the Apple II: Apple II UCSD Pascal, which is of a similar vintage to DOS 3.3 (1978 to 1985). The original version (1.0) only works well on an Apple II+ with a language card installed, but can be used on later machines. Later versions (1.1, 1.2 and 1.3) work well on a IIe, IIc or IIgs, while retaining support for the II+ (possibly with patches). Versions 1.2 and 1.3 also have extra support for 128K RAM in the newer machines. The operating environment is entirely menu driven. Most programs are written in Pascal, which is compiled to an intermediate form which is interpreted by the computer, so everything runs rather sluggishly. The main advantage of this method is that it allows very large and complex programs to be used in the limited environment of a 64K Apple II. The environment is quite powerful for programming tasks, particularly for people coming to the Apple II from a minicomputer environment (where UCSD Pascal originated). The Pascal operating system also comes with an assembler, and there was even a Fortran compiler. The earlier versions require the use of a 5.25" drive and can support other devices with loaded drivers. Version 1.3 can boot from a 3.5" or hard drive. Other minor players: There are also Apple II versions of CP/M, which don't run on the Apple II per se, but actually on a Z80 card installed in a slot, with assistance from the Apple II (keyboard, video output and disk drive access, for example). The 5.25" drive is used by the CP/M environment, and there are several utilities that run under ProDOS and DOS 3.3 which can access Apple II CP/M disks in various ways. Various Apple II models support a variety of different Z80 cards. There are options for every model. Similarly, you can run MS-DOS on a PC Transporter card. It can use a mixture of Apple II drives (floppies, and image files on hard drives) and directly connected PC-compatible drives. The PC Transporter works in an Apple II+, IIe or IIgs (with the appropriate adaptor kit). The Apple II actually runs ProDOS-8 while the PC Transporter is active. Does GEOS count as an operating system, or is it just a layer than runs on top of ProDOS? > On what models do these run? I've already mentioned this for most, but in case you need extra info: DOS 3.3 works on everything, including an original Apple II with less than 48K of RAM. DOS 3.2.1 and earlier can't be booted directly on any machine with the current disk controller (you need the original card with old PROMs on it), but can be used on any machine with a DOS 3.3 pre-boot. ProDOS 1.0 and 1.0.1 works on every Apple II model (48K RAM required in an original Apple II). ProDOS 1.1 and later require 64K RAM (language card required in an original II or II+). Some ProDOS applications (notably BASIC.SYSTEM) require Applesoft in ROM, so won't work on an original Apple II (unless its ROMs are replaced). For an Apple IIgs, ProDOS-8 1.2 or later should be used in preference to 1.1 or earlier, but the earlier versions will work. ProDOS-16 works on any IIgs ROM version, though there may be compatibility issues with a ROM 3 IIgs, and the earliest versions may have problems on a ROM 01. GS/OS requires a ROM 01 or ROM 3 IIgs. -- David Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz Snail mail: P.O. Box 27-103, Wellington, New Zealand