America Online APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG Tuesday, August 10, 1993 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time Topic: Debugging Your Software Forum Leader: Gary Jacobson (AFL GaryJ) AFL GaryJ Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum! AFL GaryJ Tonight, our topic is "Debugging Your Software" AFL GaryJ Which includes a discussion of any of the nifty tools available for AFL GaryJ debugging, such as GSBug and Andy's program :) AFL GaryJ But first, I want to mention why Jay has a lot of mail tonight :) AFA AndyW Hi Matt.. AFL GaryJ Hi Matt AFL GaryJ System Software 6.0.1 will be released for download as of midnight tomorrow AFL GaryJ night (so that it is released on the 12th of August per Apple's instructions) AFL GaryJ (It's about time :) AFL Marty Amen AFA AndyW Have you all downloaded it yet to verify the archives? AFL GaryJ And yes, Marty, I was wondering why they couldn't have just left keyword "time" as "time". :) AFL GaryJ I've checked a couple, but not all are up yet (almost, though) AFA AndyW How many are there? AFL GaryJ The new version of GSBug is there too (fits right in with our topic) AFA Jay They will all be checked, have no fear :) AFA AndyW (I noticed that 6.0 got moved to Old system software).. AFL GaryJ as well as Apple II System 4.0.1. AFL GaryJ (For ProDOS 8) AFL Marty wyrm sighting AFA AndyW Now I can turn my Wyrms off.. AFL GaryJ There's six disks to 6.0.1, and one disk for GSBug. AFL GaryJ Hi Midian Midian1 HIya Gary! AFA AndyW 6? What all are they? AFL GaryJ (And then one disk for 4.0.1) AFA AndyW Hi James.. James S WI Hi Andy AFL GaryJ Hi James AFL GaryJ One of the disks is for synthLAB. AFL GaryJ There's Fonts, System Tools 1, System Tools 2, Install AFL GaryJ System Disk, and synthLAB AFL GaryJ That's six. AFL GaryJ Now, tonight is debugging.... AFL GaryJ Are there any questions or comments on topic? AFL GaryJ (Hopefully a new version of Nifty List will appear sometime too :) Ferreri1 Yes, Gary I have a question/ AFL GaryJ Go ahead, Ferreri Ferreri1 I've been programming for 25 years... Ferreri1 for 10 in Pascal, and a couple on the IIGS.. KLIPSCH HELLO? Ferreri1 Though I have GSBug and nifty list I never learned.. Ferreri1 to use them. Are they worth learning ? AFL GaryJ Hi KLIPSCH DanP18 ! KLIPSCH HELLO THERE Gary! AFL GaryJ GA, Dan DanP18 GSBug can be pretty useful, although I don't really like it. KLIPSCH What's Crankink'? Ferreri1 Too Long a question ? KLIPSCH (yawning) AFL GaryJ GS Bug is best for assembly programming. AFL GaryJ (And it is GREAT for that) DanP18 I never used Nifty List enough to pay the shareware fee. It just doesn't DanP18 fit my style of working. James S WI Do you do desktop programming? Use the tool box much? DanP18 But, I'm hardly typical. GA. KLIPSCH It's Too Bad America Online only supports 110 baud... KLIPSCH ....makes it seem like no one is talking... Ferreri1 Gary, more questions.. AFL GaryJ Ok, GA AFL GaryJ (Sorry, mega IM's tonight) KLIPSCH ...BTW...(...when will we see 9600 + support? AFL GaryJ KLIPSCH, Ferreri has the floor with his question right now. Ferreri1 Tahnk you, KLIPSCH (sorry) KLIPSCH (gulp) AFL GaryJ GA, Ferreri Ferreri1 I am swithcing form Complete Pascal to OrCA/Pascal.. AFA AndyW Using GSBug, I'v recovered from more crashes than I can count.. Ferreri1 and will write some code in Assem. should I leran GSBug? Ferreri1 ment Learn. AFA Jay It's very helpful with assembly debugging. DanP18 ! knowledge is power. It couldn't hurt. It will probably help. GA AFA AndyW And, you'll learn a lot just by using it too.. AFL GaryJ I can't do without GS Bug in assembly. It works very well with Nifty List, and I would AFL GaryJ *highly* recommend both to any assembly programmer. If you are into higher AFL GaryJ level languages, there are ways to utilize GS Bug too, and Nifty List is still AFL GaryJ helpful for looking into data structures and memory management. AFA Jay And toolcalls show up real well. AFL GaryJ Yes. AFL GaryJ Nifty List allows you to do toolcalls for testing, etc. Ferreri1 Thanx, guess I have some Docs. to read. AFL GaryJ (From a simple command line) AFL GaryJ And, with "Goodies", you can find out the meaning of pretty much any error code, and that AFL GaryJ sort of thing. AFL GaryJ ("Goodies" is a Nifty List add-on, comes with it) AFA Jay There are a few other add-ons out there. IR has one, for example. AFA AndyW I use \irinstall fairly often! Ferreri1 Nother queston, Gary. AFA Jay Yes, I find it quite useful when I can't get to my NDA DA Installer. AFL GaryJ GA, Ferreri Ferreri1 Earlier it was mentioned that there is a new version of GSBug for.. Ferreri1 use with system 6.0.1.. Ferreri1 I have 6.0.1 will I have any problems with the older GSBug? AFL GaryJ No, you shouldn't. AFA AndyW The older one works fine with 6.0.1, but it just won't have the new tool calls. AFL GaryJ Right. Ferreri1 Where do I get the new version ? AFA AndyW Tomorrow night at midnight. AFL GaryJ Well, from what I've just been told, the version that is coming out AFA Jay It will be in the From Apple/Apple II System Software Library. AFL GaryJ tomorrow night is *not* the absolute newest. What's in our library AFL GaryJ is GS Bug 1.6b20, and I'm told that a version 1.7 is coming out soon. AFL GaryJ But, if you want the latest version availble to the public, then you can download AFL GaryJ the one that will be released tomorrow night. But beware that you'll want to AFL GaryJ download it again when 1.7 becomes available. AFL GaryJ (We need to put something to that effect in the file description, Jay :) AFA AndyW I have one of the beta versions of 1.7.. No telling when the release AFA AndyW version will be available.. AFA Jay ::noting:: AFL GaryJ That's right, it might be delayed for awhile, so GS Bug 1.6b20 might AFL GaryJ be the newest for awhile. AFL GaryJ (No telling how long "awhile" is) AFA AndyW The only changes between the 2 that I'm aware of are a memory problem related AFA AndyW to ProDOS 8, and the new tool calls.. AFL GaryJ That seems relatively minor (unless you are doing ProDOS 8 stuff) AFA Jay How many new tool calls are there? AFL GaryJ I think Andy told us there were 20? Matt DTS Gary, I think the version you have in the libraries right now is _later_ than what's on the disk you Matt DTS got. AFA AndyW Somewhere around 20.. Matt DTS 1.6b20 is older than 1.6 final and most likely doesn't have any new 6.0.1 tool calls in it. Matt DTS (It could be verified real quick by searching the file for "CompactResourceFile") AFA Jay I'll do that when I check the disk. AFL GaryJ We can check it out. AFL GaryJ I've downloaded GS Bug 1.6b20, but haven't unpacked it yet. AFL GaryJ (I'm not sure why that particular disk was included in the batch) AFA AndyW Well, 1.7d6 has it in it.. But the 1.6d20 didn't.. AFL GaryJ Hmmm... somewhere I have the list of new toolcalls that Andy listed :) AFA AndyW I added the new calls to the NL data file.. As much as I could, since I don't AFA AndyW have all the parameters for them.. AFA AndyW (Don't have ANY of the parameters that is).. AFL GaryJ Makes it kind of a hit and miss thing, eh? :) AFA AndyW Yeah.. AFA Jay ? AFL GaryJ GA, Jay AFA Jay I have a question for Matt...very technical... AFA Jay Is it 6.0.1 or 6.01? :) AFL GaryJ I think it's 6.0.1 AFA AndyW He said 6.0.1 earlier Jay.. AFA AndyW Scroll up! AFL GaryJ Yes, it is. AFL GaryJ (Just checked) AFA Jay EXCUSE ME. AFL GaryJ :) AFA Jay I'm trying to prepare 6.0.1 for all of you, and I possible missed that line Matt DTS 6.0.1. AFA Jay of chat. AFL GaryJ Ok, any questions or comments on topic tonight? AFL GaryJ (or off topic?) AFC SteveB Hi, Everyone :) Ferreri1 Yeah, comment. AFA AndyW Hi Steve.. AFL GaryJ Anything new in the works in the way of debugging from you, Andy? AFL GaryJ Hi Steve AFA AndyW Not really.. NameOBJ is still out there.. There's a new source level AFL GaryJ (Your comment is next, Ferreri) AFA AndyW debugger in beta test (I'm just testing).. But that's about it.. Ferreri1 Last week there was aquestion as to weither.. Ferreri1 Toll Box programming by Mike W. discussed rBundles.. Ferreri1 yes. it does. (ment tool). AFL GaryJ Ok, thanks. Ferreri1 Toll box Programming in Pascal. AFL GaryJ Also, there are *12* new tool calls in 6.0.1 (per Andy's list) AFL GaryJ 033E AlertMessage AFL GaryJ 033F DoSysPrefs AFL GaryJ 0E6C UpdateWindow AFL GaryJ 103C SetCtlValByID AFL GaryJ 103D GetCtlValByID AFL GaryJ 103E InvalOneCtlByID AFL GaryJ 103F HiliteCtlByID AFL GaryJ 1215 DrawStringWidth AFL GaryJ 1425 LEClassifyKey AFL GaryJ 1615 ChowClipboard AFC SteveB Chow down, boys :) AFL GaryJ 1E2E OpenResFileByID AFL GaryJ 1E2F CompactResourceFile AFA AndyW TBP/C also discusses rBundles.. AFL GaryJ That's 12. AFL GaryJ Yeah, makes me hungry :) AFC SteveB Just curious...what do DoSysPrefs and AlertMessage do? AFC SteveB :) Ferreri1 ChowClipboard what's that??? AFC SteveB It's the new toolcall to eat the clipboard, Ferr. AFC SteveB I believe Gary meant "ShowClipboard" :) Ferreri1 Okay. AFL GaryJ No, I believe ANDY meant "Show Clipboard" :) AFC SteveB Sorry, Gary :) AFL GaryJ (I was cut and pasting them from Andy's list :) AFL GaryJ I think that's right. AFL GaryJ I didn't even notice that last time we listed them. AFL GaryJ Yes, it is ShowClipboard. AFL GaryJ (Creates a system window that takes care of the clipboard display for you) AFL GaryJ Hi Frank AFL GaryJ Sorry about that. BCS Frank Gary, y'all, Hi :) AFL GaryJ Anyone else with a question or comment? AFL GaryJ (new topic, maybe? :) BCS Frank Wondering if anyone has heard AFL GaryJ About 6.0.1? BCS Frank something about a GS/Newton interface? AFL GaryJ (Or something else? :) AFL GaryJ What, Frank? BCS Frank ... Guess that gualifies as something else? BCS Frank There are Intel box to Newton and Mac to Newton interfaces BCS Frank coming out... Apple said that a GS/Newton interfacve BCS Frank was a "3rd party opportunity." AFL GaryJ Oh, you are asking... I thought you were going to tell us about it :) BCS Frank :: Sigh :: wish that I were. AFL GaryJ No, I haven't heard anything about that. AFL GaryJ (Except from you :) BCS Frank Well, I can't even elevate it to the level of rumor... yet. BCS Frank One can hope. :) Matt DTS Not that you're not trying. :) BCS Frank :) AFL GaryJ :) Matt DTS I'm gonna have to take off early tonight; it turns out I need to go back into work and get some AFA AndyW Well, if I had a Newton, and the specs, I might try to develop one, but I AFA AndyW don't, so.... AFL GaryJ And this interface is supposed to be available when? :) James S WI How much does a Newton sell for? AFA AndyW Too much.. Matt DTS stuff done in my office tonight. See y'all around. AFL GaryJ Goodnight, Matt! AFL GaryJ Thanks for coming. BCS Frank Bye, Matt! :) AFA AndyW About $900 at MacWorld.. Supposed to be cheaper at the retail stores.. BCS Frank Hmmm.... Newtons sell betweeen $700 to just under $1000... so far. BCS Frank The PC/Newton and Mac/Newton interface AFA AndyW Not counting those that went for free.. (That I heard about).. Ferreri1 Where does the Mac interface plug in? Frank? BCS Frank set ups are supposed to be available later this year. BCS Frank (right, the Newtons were growing lots of little legs...> BCS Frank There's a cable connection between the Newton and I think a serial port... AFA AndyW Yeah, when the place was closed, from what someone said.. Says a lot for AFA AndyW MacWorld security.. BCS Frank it allows the Desk computer to back up and restore the Newton files, BCS Frank apps and OS, as well as transferring files to wp, etc. BCS Frank AFL GaryJ That's too bad. AFA AndyW 11:00 auto user show just got triggered! BCS Frank It'll also allow the desk top and Newton based files AFA Jay That's the problem with these small computers. AFL GaryJ Well, at least they weren't lifted by GS users :) BCS Frank to be compared, with the most recent info from each merged. AFA AndyW As far as we know Gary.. BCS Frank Right :) AFL GaryJ (Unless one of the guys who lifted one is planning on doing the IIGS interface :) AFA Andy :) AFA AndyW I know a guy who works in LaPub who bought one.. BCS Frank Hmmm.... that would be a -hot- product. Ferreri1 IIGS has serial port. Sounds like software only...Need a Newton. BCS Frank Apple is supposed to be releasing developer info as well. BCS Frank I'd love to see a few Xcmds to allow Newton/GS aps to be written BCS Frank in HC. AFL GaryJ Newton, Macintosh, Apple..... anyone see a trend in those names? AFL GaryJ (Wondering how "Quadra" fits in) AFA Andy They get smaller :D AFL GaryJ (Now we just need a "William Tell") BCS Frank Quadra will support Newton... BCS Frank though it's a very large "desktop" computer. BCS Frank Well, MNacintosh was named after the Mcintosh Apple... but AFA Andy Well, I think I'm gonna have some Apple Newtons and milk and head for bed. AFA Andy Night guys :) BCS Frank Apples can't spell, you know. AFL GaryJ Goodnight, Andy! AFL GaryJ Thanks for coming. BCS Frank Bye, Andy :) BCS Frank AFL GaryJ The Lisa was another odd-ball name. AFL GaryJ (I thought it should have been called "Granny Smith") BCS Frank Nahhh... that's what GS stands for. AFA AndyW Wasn't Lisa someone's wifes name? AFL GaryJ OOoooh, Frank :) Ferreri1 It was Woz or Jobs girlfriend. I would have to look it up. Ferreri1 I'm sure I have a reference somewhere.