America Online
APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, August 3, 1993  10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic:  Resource Programming
Forum Leader:  Gary Jacobson (AFL GaryJ)

AFL GaryJ  Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum!
AFL GaryJ  Tonight, our topic is Resource Programming.
AFL GaryJ  Unless this place somehow fills up fast, let's do away with forum
           
AFL GaryJ  protocol.
AFL GaryJ  So, if you have a question or comment, feel free to jump in (so
           long as we
AFL GaryJ  stay orderly).
AFC SteveB DisposeAll(protocol);
AFL GaryJ  Yep :)
AFL GaryJ  (for now)
Ferreri1   I hope so, I'm not familiar with Protocol.
AFL Marty  What kinds of things does one put in a resource?
AFC SteveB Hmm... maybe we should set the purge level on thre handle... ;)
AFL GaryJ  Well, protocol is just a way of raising your hand if you have a
           question :)
AFL GaryJ  What kinds of things can you put in a resource?  
AFA Jay    everything :)
AFL GaryJ  Graphics, sounds, data of pretty much any kind.
AFL Marty  I knew you were going to say that, Jay.
AFL GaryJ  Settings for dialog boxes, etc.
AFC SteveB Yep :)  And it makes it easier to edit them, to customize stuff
           without having to
AFC SteveB re-assemble/compile every time.
AFL GaryJ  That's the kind of thing that programs like Design Master help you
           do.
AFL Marty  But programmers don't put everything in resources (do they?).  How
           do you
Ferreri1   I used resources to hold high scores in a game. Don't know if it
           is okay though
AFL Marty  decide what's appropriate (and convenient) for placing in a
           resource?
AFA Jay    Everything on the normal desktop, actually, can be in
           resources...
AFA Jay    menus, windows, dialogs, fonts, controls..."And much, much
           more!"
AFL GaryJ  I think that depends on the design of your program...
AFC SteveB Me, for example...
AFL GaryJ  (as to what you would WANT to put in a resource, and why)
AFL GaryJ  GA, Steve
AFC SteveB I don't put everything in a resource (like menu strings, etc.), I
           just put the stuff that's
AFC SteveB easier for me to customize with available tools (eg. Genesys),
           like Windows defs and the like.
Ferreri1   Steve, Why not put Menu String in a resource ?
AFL Marty  So the stuff that goes into a resource is stuff that you're likely
           to want
AFL Marty  to change or customize?
AFC SteveB Resources are nice, but if you use them too much, it'll slow down
           your program from the constant
AFL GaryJ  Mostly, yeah.
AFC SteveB disk access.
AFC SteveB Ferreri, speed.  It's perfectly OK to do i, I just choose not to,
           'cuz it's faster just hardcoding
AFC SteveB the menus :)
AFC SteveB Yep, MArty :)
AFA Jay    For me, I put the whole desktop start up info in resources...
AFL Marty  (Isn't "hardcoding" a dirty word? :)
AFA Jay    so in about 10 simple calls, I can have a ready desktop.
Ferreri1   But isn't it easier to change in a resource ?
AFC SteveB I'll ask TOSAdvisor, Marty ;)
AFL GaryJ  :)
AFL Marty  :)
AFC SteveB For the end user, yeah, but for the programmer, not really, cuz
           you can use the:
AFC SteveB $$  File  \N2
AFC SteveB Type strings for defining menus and their items.
AFL GaryJ  It's sometimes nice to use a design type program to produce code
           for you (so you don't
AFL GaryJ  have to figure out all the sizes of boxes, etc.) even if you don't
           use it
AFL GaryJ  in a resource. 
AFA Jay    I love using all those calls that end in "2", even if they waste
           time :)
Ferreri1   I thought the ultimate reason for resources was so the user could
           change a:
AFL Marty  Such as Design Master?
AFC SteveB NewControl2, NewWindow2 ;)
Ferreri1   program for thier usae.
AFC SteveB Yep, Marty!
AFL GaryJ  Yes, Marty
AFL Marty  ----====[}}} Softy
AFC Softy  hmph
AFL GaryJ  That's probably one of the main reasons, Ferreri
AFL GaryJ  Hi Softy
AFC Softy  Hi Gary :)
AFA Jay    Resources are neat for programmers too...they're like little
           files...that never
AFA Jay    show up on a directory.
AFA Jay    Preferences can go into a resource, so another file isn't created
           and lost.
AFL Marty  I see.  So they keep everything neat and tidy, wrapped up in one
           package.
AFC SteveB Exactly, and when it comes to saving preferences, resources make
           the job easier...no messing around
AFC SteveB with GSOS calls.
AFC SteveB Yep, Marty :)
AFA Jay    Not only that, if a user moves a program, the prefs go along with
           it...
AFL GaryJ  Hi Matt
AFA Jay    instead of leaving Preferences droppings all over :)
Matt DTS   Howdy.
AFL Marty  I see.  That makes sense.
AFC Softy  Hi Matt :)
AFL GaryJ  Assuming he uses GS/OS to copy the program (and not ProDOS 8 :)
AFA Jay    Special fonts too...keeps them part of the program.
AFC SteveB I have a resource-related question...
AFL GaryJ  Go for it, Steve
AFL Marty  Oh?  There's a font resource?
AFL Marty  (GA Stev)
AFL Marty  e
AFA Jay    (but of course)
AFC SteveB Currently in an App I'm working on, I have the app's resource fork
           open, and the prefs file
AFC Softy  Marty.... whaddah ya think TrueTypes are?
AFC Softy  :D
AFC SteveB resource open... when I want to check out the prefs, I set the
           current res app to the prefs file,
AFC SteveB read 'em, then set the current res FILE (not app, sorry)
AFC SteveB back to my app... is that the best way to do it, or should I close
           the resource so it has less chance
AFC SteveB of getting corrupted, or should I cut down on caffiene? :)
AFA Jay    huh?
AFA Jay    Just change the ResFile :)
AFC SteveB Yeah, that's what I'm doing, Jay :)
Matt DTS   If you're not worried about conflicts between the prefs file and
           the rest of the chain, there's no
Matt DTS   reason to ever change the file at all.
Developer1 hi everybody!
AFL Marty  wyrm sighted
AFL GaryJ  Yeah, that and the caffiene.
AFC SteveB Yeah, as long as the res depth is high enough, that's true.  I
           noticed IR keeps it's res file
AFL GaryJ  Hi Developer!
Developer1 hi gary
AFC SteveB open throughout it's life in the system :)
Developer1 STEVEN!
AFC SteveB Hi, Evan :)
Developer1 hi spoots!
AFL GaryJ  Anything else, Steve?
AFC Softy  Evan!!!  Star of stage screen and Twilight II ads!  :D
AFC SteveB Nope, that's it-- thanks!
Developer1 whatever SPOOTS :D
AFL Marty  (Consider decaf. :)
AFL GaryJ  Star of the Twilight II ads?  
AFL GaryJ  I haven't seen them.
AFL GaryJ  How so?
AFC SteveB Well everyone, the caffiene is wearing off (LOL, Marty!), so I
           best go crash... night everyone! :)
AFL GaryJ  Ok, anyone else with a Resource related question?
AFL GaryJ  Goodnight, Steve
AFL GaryJ  Thanks for coming.
AFA Jay     
Developer1 SPOOTS! Oh you mean he quoted me in his add? ah yes, I gave him my
           permission. :D Which magazine?
AFA Jay     
AFA Jay    ::whew::
AFL GaryJ  Ah, a quote.  I thought it might have been a photo or something
           :)
AFL Marty  Evan's praises (of Twilight II) are quoted in the Twilight II ad
           in GS+.
AFL GaryJ  You are still here, Jay :)
AFA Jay    I froze for a sec :)
Developer1 nifty. i'll have to check it out. which month?
Developer1 i doubt I have it yet.
AFC Softy  'nite Steve :)
Ferreri1   I have a resource developement question (about foundation):
AFL GaryJ  (Wish it would freeze here :)
AFL Marty  May-June (pg. 10)
AFA Jay    Bye Steve :)
AFL GaryJ  Go ahead, Ferreri
AFC SteveB Bye! :)
AFL Marty  Bye Steve
AFL GaryJ  Don't know if we can answer it, though, without Marc here :)
AFC SteveB (Just interested in Ferreri's question :)
AFL GaryJ  (What was the quote?)
AFL GaryJ  Go ahead, Ferreri
AFL Marty  "Twilight II v1.1 is absolutely astounding... I am very impressed
           and proud to
AFL Marty  own it!  Keep up the good work."
AFL GaryJ  :)
AFC SteveB How much did you get paid to say that, Evan? :)
Ferreri1   Is foundation a GUI or more like REZ?
Developer1 oh. nift. I don't remember that. :D
AFL Marty  GMTA Steve!
AFC SteveB (j/k :)
AFC SteveB LOL, Marty!
Developer1 it was a very small figure, not worth it :D
Developer1 :D
AFC SteveB Ok-- night for real this time! :)
AFL Marty  It's a GUI, Ferreri.
AFL GaryJ  Is foundation a GUI or more like REZ?  It's a GUI.
AFL GaryJ  That was a real show stopper :)
AFC Softy  Some of the editors in Foundation are script based... meaning they
           aren't a 
AFC Softy  WYSIWYG type of editor... but Foundation holds much more potential
           than Genesys
AFC Softy  ever would have.
AFA Jay    Everything is, however, in the desktop environment.
AFC Softy  Right....
AFL GaryJ  Hi L deHay
AFL GaryJ  "Potential" can also simply mean that the authors are still alive,
           and interested in the
AFL GaryJ  product :)
AFC Softy  I have both of them.... and Foundation is far more versatile.
Ferreri1   Thanx, Softy.
AFL GaryJ  Anyone else with a resource related question or comment?
AFC Softy  True Gary.... but Script Edit allows the user to create his own
           editor...
AFL GaryJ  Yes, true.
AFC Softy  It may be crude... but it works.
AFL GaryJ  No, I agree with you that Foundation holds more potential :)
AFC Softy  AND... anyone can create their own native editor.  :)
AFL GaryJ  (The natives are restless - so edit them)
AFC Softy  (I was skeptical about Foundation myself... until Marc demoed it
           for me at
AFC Softy  AppleExpo West in Feb :)
AFL GaryJ  Foundation is impressive.  But I was alluding to the amount of
           "support" given to
AFL GaryJ  the current competition (Genesys and Design Master).
AFL GaryJ  Hi Dan
AFC Softy  Heh.... yeah.... no argument there Gary.. :)
AFC Softy  <-- has DM too  :F
AFC Softy  er  :/
AFL GaryJ  Tonight's topic is Programming with Resources.
Ferreri1   Can you put a programs Icon in a resource for the Finder to
           recognize?
DanP18     doen't that go into the rBundle?
AFC Softy  The next release of Foundation is supposed to have an
           rIcon/rBundle editor.
AFA Jay    It goes somewhere, I know.
AFL GaryJ  Right :)
AFC Softy  (and it's a native editor to boot... :)
AFC Softy  (or.. "REM"... as it's also known)
AFL GaryJ  Bye the way... speaking of 6.0.1...
AFL GaryJ  It's supposed to be coming to AOL later this week or the first
           part of next
AFA Jay    ha :)
AFL GaryJ  week (so the rumor has it :)
AFA Jay    Ooo!  Good!
DanP18     !
AFL GaryJ  We'll see if it's a "Good Rumor"
AFL GaryJ  GA, Dan
AFC Softy  That means Sheppy finally DID order it.... :)
Ferreri1   I got 6.0.1 today. It seems to work al right.
AFL GaryJ  (That's what I was wondering, Softy :)
DanP18     Icons are stroed as rIcon resources, and the rBundle refers to
           them.  See the
DanP18     Programmers reference for 6.0. page 419.  GAS
Matt DTS   I hadn't heard that one yet.  :)
AFL GaryJ  Thanks, Dan
Ferreri1   Thanx,Dan.
AFL GaryJ  That's according to someone at Apple (as reported through MDV
           forum leader :)
AFA Andy   What was that Gary?
AFL GaryJ  (The rumor, that is)
AFA AndyW  Hi everyone!
AFA Andy   Hi Andy
AFL GaryJ  That 6.0.1 is supposed to be here either at the end of this week,
           or the first
AFL GaryJ  part of next week.
AFC Softy  Hey Andy1 and Andy2  :D
Ferreri1   I saw the thech note on rIcons, but don't have ref 6.0 (due this
           week).
AFL GaryJ  We'll see :)
AFA Andy   Cool :D
AFA Andy   Which is which, Softy?
AFA Andy   I guess as long as we answer differently it doesn't matter :D
AFC Softy  The Toolbox programming course from ByteWorks has a whole section
           on rBundles
AFC Softy  It's pretty comprehensive.
AFL GaryJ  The Toolbox programming course?  How is that?  (I haven't gotten
           that one)
AFC Softy  (better than calling one of you "Amos"..... Andy.  };D)
AFA Andy   For sure, Softy :)
DanP18     !
AFL GaryJ  GA, Dan
DanP18     It's not bad.  While I may not be a fan of Mike Westerfield's
           programming
AFC Softy  Gary... I have the Toolbox Course for C.... it's pretty good for a
           crude 
AFC Softy  programmer such as moi.. :)
DanP18     style, it covers all the basics and gives you a fairly
           comprehensive
DanP18     skeleton program, with good background on why you're doing what
DanP18     you're doing.  GA.
AFL GaryJ  The "Learn to Program in ____" courses are pretty good, but I
           haven't seen the toolbox courses.
AFC Softy  (what Dan said... :)
AFL GaryJ  Thanks, Dan
AFA AndyW  I have TB/C too..
Ferreri1   I got ToolBox Programming in Pascal yesterday. Hven't read yet.
           Hope it 
Ferreri1   discusses rBundles.
AFL GaryJ  It is probably patterned the same as the other courses (in terms
           of what it
AFC Softy  It should.... both courses cover the same material... just from
           different 
AFC Softy  languages.
AFL GaryJ  covers).  So, it should.
AFL GaryJ  (Yeah, what Softy said :)
Ferreri1   Will know next week.
AFL GaryJ  Come and give us a report :)
Ferreri1   Will do.
BCS Frank  Hi, y'all  :)
AFL GaryJ  Although.. next week our topic is Debugging Tools and
           Techniques.
AFC Softy  The rBundle resource is covered way back in Lesson 17.... :)
AFL GaryJ  (But that won't matter :)
AFL GaryJ  Hi Frank
AFL GaryJ  In two weeks our topic is Pascal and C programming.
DanP18     ?
AFL GaryJ  GA, Dan
AFC Softy  Frankenstien!  :D
DanP18     When is the next trivia game?????
AFA Jay    :)
BCS Frank  When is Congress next in session?
AFL GaryJ  Good question :)  Might be tough to do in the future.
AFA Jay    Around Christmas, Gary :)
AFL GaryJ  Those are fun, we need to do them more often.
AFL GaryJ  (But they do take a lot of time to prepare).
AFC Softy  Jay :)
AFL GaryJ  Christmas was when we did one once, that would be a good time to
AFL GaryJ  plan one.
DanP18     ? why so tough?
AFA Andy   I have to run, night guys. :)
AFL GaryJ  Well......
AFL GaryJ  Jay is our mastermind of the game setup, and he's gonna be at
BCS Frank  Bye, Andy  :)
AFL GaryJ  college this fall.
AFL GaryJ  (Jay does all the macros and stuff)
AFL GaryJ  But we'll make sure we can do games still. We'll try to do them
           more
AFL GaryJ  often.
AFC Softy  (and college will never be the same... :)
AFL GaryJ  The air, the land, and now the books.
AFA Jay    I'll do them whenever I'm home, Winter, Spring, Summer breaks :)
AFA Jay    and Baltimore :)
AFL GaryJ  That would be good, Jay.
AFL GaryJ  Nothing is safe anymore :)
AFC Softy  Jay... they won't let you take a computer to school??  :)
AFA Jay    I really don't have a place for my GS...and I may not have the
           time to keep
AFA Jay    up with what I need to do here.
AFL GaryJ  Sheesh.  Priorities.  What's more important than ADV???  :)
AFC Softy  True..... especially if you're in a coed dorm or something.... 
           ;D
AFL GaryJ  I mean, next thing I'll hear, you'll be saying that you'd rather
           go on a date than do stuff
AFL GaryJ  here :)
Ferreri1   G'night guys.
AFA Jay    What's wrong with kids these days, geez.
AFL GaryJ  Goodnight, Ferreri
AFL GaryJ  Thanks for coming.
DanP18     ?
AFL GaryJ  GA, Dan
AFC Softy  Jay... they're smarter than the older kids...  ;)
DanP18     What, if any, is the indexing scheme used by the resource manager
           to scan
DanP18     a resource fork?  GA
AFL GaryJ  Hmmm.... I dunno.  
AFL GaryJ  You know the scheme, Matt?
Matt DTS   I think it's a binary search.  The maps have to be sorted, etc.
Matt DTS   (AFK)
DanP18     I ask because I notice you can (theoretically) have 65535 entries.
            I was
DanP18     curious as to what the prectical limit is for an unaccelerated
           GS.
AFL GaryJ  I guess a "practical" limit is when you get tired of waiting :)
AFA AndyW  I found a Foundation problem last week..
AFL GaryJ  What kind of problem?
AFA AndyW  It doesn't want to load resource forks if they are larger than
           about 128k..
BCS Frank  Gotta fold my tent.... night all  :)
AFA AndyW  If I have a sound resource file that's larger than 256 blocks, it
           tells me
AFA AndyW  that it can't load..
AFA AndyW  I'm sure it would choke on the {S Sally} sound, which is about
           450k (over 900
AFA AndyW  blocks)..
MKinney    hello!
AFL GaryJ  Hi MKinney
AFA AndyW  Hi MKinney..
MKinney    what is tonight's chat about???
MKinney    hiya gary! hiya andy!
AFA AndyW  I checked free memory, after Foundation loaded, and had a couple
           meg free..
AFA AndyW  Anyone know anyone who could compile a C program on a PC for
           me??
AFL GaryJ  Tonight is Programming with Resources, MKinney.
AFA AndyW  Hi Hellian..
MKinney    of, apple //gs stuff?
AFL GaryJ  Someone over in PDV probably could :)
MKinney    er, "oh"
AFL GaryJ  Yes, Apple IIGS stuff.
Hellian    hey andy :)
AFL GaryJ  I don't have C for the PC.
Hellian    whoever just dropped me an IM... I missed it... AOL messed up
           again
MKinney    i program in appleSLOTH and 6502 assembler but not "c".....
SPEEDLIMIT Hi all :)
AFL GaryJ  Those are two good languages (AppleSLOTH and 6502 - they go good
           together :)
Matt DTS   (back)
AFL GaryJ  Hi Speedlimit.
Hellian    I still use the gs... In BIG BAD BASIC.... Still a die hard one
SPEEDLIMIT Hey Gary :)
AFA AndyW  BBL...
Hellian    see ya andy
AFL GaryJ  Do you have a IIGS, MKinney?
AFL GaryJ  Goodnight, Andy
SPEEDLIMIT Got a Question or sorts, not related but a comment or thought type
           Question ?
MKinney    no, i sure don't gary... i guess i don't fit in here huh? 
AFL GaryJ  Go ahead, Speed
Hellian    What's the hot topic for the IIgs tonite?
AFL GaryJ  MKinney, that's okay, we do all kinds of Apple II stuff here.
MKinney    programming with resourses.
MKinney    that's good gary.
AFL GaryJ  (Just that tonight's "official" topic happened to be IIGS
           related)