America Online APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG Tuesday, July 27, 1993 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time Topic: Operating Systems Forum Leader: Gary Jacobson (AFL GaryJ) AFL GaryJ Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum! AFL GaryJ Tonight, our topic is Operating Systems, which can be System 6.0.1 (if we want it to be :) JWankerl Working good for me. Sheppy Bob, don't ask about that mythical system version. :) Barnabas Yes, I have trouble getting 6.0.1 to download. Every time I try, something Ophtho Bob It's real now. Barnabas seems to go wrong! :) AFL GaryJ I'd also like to discuss any news from KansasFest (what little news there is) AFL GaryJ I have that problem too, Greg. ("File not found") JWankerl I was 2nd in the KFest bag biting contest. :-) AFL GaryJ Bag biting? JWankerl Yup. DanP18 ^.0.1 is here? Excuse me. AFL GaryJ No Dan, it's not online yet. Sheppy You probably don't want to know. Sounds like some kind of twisted satanic Sheppy ritual... :) Ophtho Bob OK Sheppy :) DanP18 rats. Sheppy Wishful thinking, Dan. AFL GaryJ I agree (rats) Barnabas Yes, they were in the bags. :) Sheppy But good news, all! I've decided to go ahead and order 6.0.1, so it will DanP18 ? where are these other people downloading it from? Sheppy probably show up online tomorrow or the next day! :) AFL GaryJ They are getting it shipped to them from Resource Central JWankerl You can call up Resource-Central and they'll send you a copy - but ya gotta pay a bit. AFL GaryJ As far as I know, no other online system has 6.0.1 availble for download yet. Ophtho Bob I got mine from Resource Central/ DanP18 I ordered it from Byteworks. Barnabas Gee, only been over a month-and-a-half since people started RECEIVING it from JWankerl ByteWorks isn't allowed to ship it yet, I don't believe. Or things might have JWankerl changed since I last got word. Barnabas companies... so Apple couldn't possibly mail a couple of disks to online Barnabas services in that time, now could they? AFL GaryJ It's making me wonder if they ever intend to give it to online systems. Sheppy Heh. Maybe the disks were among the mail lost in the midwest flooding... :) AFL GaryJ I've been trying to find someone who can talk straight about it, but no luck yet. Barnabas Which means we can pick up 6.0.1 in Louisiana! ;) Sheppy I sometimes think that too, Gary. :) DanP18 ? AFL GaryJ Gulf of Mexico. AFL GaryJ GA, Dan JWankerl I sure would love a new Nifty List and/or GSBug version... AFL GaryJ (me too, Joe) DanP18 Does it (6.0.1) or doesn't it have the MSDOS FST? Barnabas BTW, Eric, just pulled my list-tracking stuff and it works, so I'm packing it Sheppy Yes, Dan -- read only. Ophtho Bob It does. JWankerl It does - Read only. Barnabas now to send to you... AFL GaryJ It does. DanP18 Good. I've heard different things. Sheppy Excellent. I'll build the a1 version and send it to the right people. :) AFA Jay Does the MS-DOS FST work with normal 800k drives? Barnabas Yes... 50% "It does." and 50% "It does--read only." :) Ophtho Bob no. DanP18 No. AFL GaryJ No, not with 800k. Ophtho Bob beat you. DanP18 Need a superdrive and controller card. AFL GaryJ :) JWankerl Only if you have an 800K MS-DOS disk. :-) Sheppy No -- you need an MFM capable drive (either a drive on a SuperDrive card or a AFA Jay :) Sheppy PC Transporter), I think. AFL GaryJ Not sure about the PC Transporter. JWankerl FSTs don't care where your disk is as long as the hardware can read it. Sheppy Right. And an MFM-encoded disk can be read in a drive connected to a PCT. Sheppy So I assume (and have heard elsewhere) that 720K MS-DOS disks can be read by Sheppy a system with a PCT. Barnabas Not always true... case in point: DOS 3.3 FST, only accepts 5.25" disks. JWankerl Well that's a special case. (And AppleShare is, too.) But HFS, ISO, MS-DOS, & ProDOS aren't. Ophtho Bob There have been a few bugs with 6.0.1, running the Manager my system folder AFL GaryJ That could be because the only kinds of DOS 3.3 that are capable of being AFL GaryJ put on an 800k disk are modifed. Ophtho Bob shows up without icons on the desktop. AFL GaryJ (Not necessarily because of the FST) JWankerl What? Someone says the Manager has bugs? Nahhh, couldn't be... ;-) Barnabas Or it could be because FST's and drivers aren't as independent as they seem... Ophtho Bob This is also true for alarm clock NDA. Sheppy Oooh -- Joe, was that a touch of sarcasm I detected? :) DanP18 ! I just installed The Manager 20 minutes ago. Sheppy Which leads us neatly into my question... :) Sheppy ? DanP18 What bugs does it have? AFL Marty ---====[}}} Softy AFC Softy hmph Barnabas Poor Dan... we'll bring flowers to the service... :) AFL GaryJ Hi Softy Ophtho Bob The Manager otherwise has been working great for me. AFL GaryJ What specific problems has the Manager had? AFL GaryJ (Then Sheppy's question) Sheppy Anyone...? Anyone...? :) AFL GaryJ Just rumors? :) DanP18 Barnabas, what specific problems have you seen? JWankerl I don't use the Manager. Diz does, though, and from his experiences, I don't. Sheppy Greg's never seen The Manager, and probably wouldn't touch it. :) DanP18 Could you please relate them to us? AFL GaryJ Oh, Bob said that his system folder shows up without icons on the desktop. AFL GaryJ (Because of the Manager) JWankerl The IIGS is a one-program-at-a-time machine - making it run many is bound to be... well... JWankerl kinda crazy. Ophtho Bob The Manager had been working fine until I installed 6.0.1 Barnabas I've SEEN The Manager, Eric, I just wouldn't GET it. Sheppy A program that does the crazy things The Manager does probably needs to be Sheppy modified every time a new system software comes out, or problems will develop. JWankerl One thing that I know - when an App quits under the manager, the menu bar isn't disposed of. Ophtho Bob Common guys be a little adventurous!! Sheppy Even if I wanted The Manager, I'd wait until a new post-6.0.1 version comes Sheppy out. AFC Softy AFA Jay a wyrm :) Sheppy Being adventurous is fine, Bob, but being stupid is a different story. AFL Marty Considering how many new versions of system software are likely to be released AFL GaryJ (That'll be a cold day in Phoenix) AFL Marty that shouldn't present much of a problem. AFC SteveB MARTY AFC SteveB Hey, everyone :) AFC Softy (Gary... is HAS snowed in Phoenix before.. ;) AFL Marty STEVE Sheppy Yeah, but see what happened from 6.0 to 6.0.1... Barnabas Well, we'll wait... AFL GaryJ Hi Steve :) Barnabas Hey, Steve... AFL GaryJ Ok, Sheppy had a question. JWankerl But I tell ya - keyboard navigation in the Finder is WAY-KEWL! AFC Softy Nephew! :D AFC SteveB [Too bad about Reggie Louis, huh?] DanP18 well, thanks for the info. AFL GaryJ GA, Eric AFL GaryJ (Everyone please give Eric the floor) Sheppy Okay, all I want to know -- what does VolumeGS return for blockSize on DOS 3.3 Sheppy disks? Sheppy I need to calculate the free and total space in K for some text-screen Sheppy standard-file type dialogs... :) AFL GaryJ Interesting question. JWankerl Get the size in bytes and / by 1024? Sheppy I'm pretty sure it says 256 bytes, but don't know off hand. Sheppy Right, Joe. AFL GaryJ I would think so too (maybe I can test it here in a minute) Sheppy Which means (freeBlocks*blockSize)/1024. Sheppy My 5.25" drive is disabled right now, or I'd check. Barnabas Eric means, all his drives are pretty screwed up and unreliable. Sheppy But I need to be sure the blockSize is returned as 256 on DOS 3.3 disks. Sheppy Greg: right. :) Sheppy I take it that nobody has the answer? Sheppy Well, I'll play with it later, then. DanP18 Programmers reference for 6.0 pg 331 implies 256 Sheppy Eh? I'm sure I looked. Hang on... AFL GaryJ I don't have it now, but if I can get my 5.25 drive hooked back up here, I'll test it :) DanP18 blocksUsed this is the number of 256 byte blocks. AFL GaryJ Hi Matt AFL GaryJ (Maybe Matt knows? :) DanP18 implying that the block size is 256 Matt DTS It's official -- AOL doesn't like me to log on from anywhere. :( Sheppy Yeah, it does imply that, but I need something more concrete (although just Sheppy playing with it will do the trick). :) Barnabas Matt always knows... ask Matt, Eric. JWankerl Hey Matt. AFL GaryJ Where is anywhere tonight, Matt? Matt DTS I had to log on at 1200 to get the network to answer the phone. Matt DTS Tonight we're in Oklahoma. Sheppy Matt, do you know what VolumeGS returns for blockSize on DOS 3.3 disks? JWankerl Visiting relatives, Matt? Sheppy (and if so, please tell me... :) Matt DTS parentals. Matt DTS If it doesn't return $100 I'd be really shocked. AFC SteveB Apple II DTS world tour? Sheppy That's my opinion, too, Matt, but I wanted to be sure. Barnabas Apple II DTS '93 Flood Tour, Steve... :) AFC SteveB LOL, Greg :) Sheppy Greg, you want me to change the code to do the proper calculation before Sheppy sending it to you? Barnabas Dave does drums, Matt does vocals, and we send relief money... :) Barnabas Yes, Eric. Sheppy Okie-dokie, will do... AFL GaryJ Ok, any other questions or comments? AFL GaryJ (Hi Chris) ChrisGurn If a tree were to fall in the middle of the woods and no one was around to Barnabas I was under the impression that substitution strings didn't create buttons Barnabas under 6.0. Barnabas (But seems to in Milestones 2000). ChrisGurn hear it, would it make a noise? It's a quest. :) JWankerl Yo Bil. AFL GaryJ Hi Woody, Bill AFC Softy (Hi Bill) Sheppy Hi, Bill. Woody. WoodyO Hi BilMo Hi, Guys. Joe! What's up? JWankerl Not too much, Bill, just hangin'. BilMo Joe: Gonna help me move Saturday? AFL GaryJ So, I heard that the biggest thing at KansasFest this year was Quadriga. Sheppy Chris: uh, only if there's a tape recorder handy. Barnabas Arthritis, BilMo? :) JWankerl Nope - I think I gotta visit my gal - it's her birthday and she'll murder me if I don't. WoodyO Quadriga look really great Matt DTS Why would you want to move Saturday? ChrisGurn Good one Shepp.. I'll have to use nxt time someone asks me ;) BilMo Well, bring her along too! It'll be fun! :) Matt DTS I like it between Friday and Sunday where it is. Sheppy Matt :) Barnabas Be kinda nice to put it where Wednesday is, actually... some weeks just Barnabas seem to drag on... : Barnabas ) BilMo Matt :) Oh very droll... BilMo :) ChrisGurn Yea.. :) AFL GaryJ Sheppy, was that the question you said you wanted to ask at the beginning of the chat? Sheppy Yeah. Pretty minor, huh? :) RobertHess Ok, I'll byte, whats Quadriga? (ignore my ignorance if it is showing) AFL GaryJ It was on topic too! Barnabas Actually, Eric, I thought you were going to ask about the relationship between ChrisGurn Wow,, u don't know? heheh BilMo Robert: Think of it as AppleWorks 4.0 Barnabas device drivers and FSTs... Sheppy Yeah, amazing, eh? :) AFL GaryJ Quadriga is AppleWorks 4.0 AFC DYAJim Yo. AFL GaryJ Hi Jim JWankerl It's an Apple II based on the 68040 processor... er... maybe not. Sheppy Jim boy! BilMo Joe: ROTFL! AFL GaryJ (Not the Apple II version of Quadra) AFC DYAJim I'm in chicago Sheppy No, Greg, I really don't care about that bit. :) AFC DYAJim (with DanW190) ChrisGurn Tangent awry here. AFC Softy (Nyaaah.... Quadriga is a joint Apple/Commodore venture...) ChrisGurn for use on the 64 of course. AFC DYAJim can't stay too long tho.. AFL GaryJ Quadriga (seriously) is Randy Brandt's update to AppleWorks 3.0 JWankerl Hey Jim - I *STILL* haven't started on that T2 article yet. :-) Wheeee! AFC DYAJim Ha.. enjoy! :-) Barnabas It's for the Vic 20, Chris, didn't you know? ChrisGurn The Quadra is like all the things people wanted in APW 3.0 but had to get Barnabas (Love that 20-column display!) AFL GaryJ What was the talk at KansasFest about the possibility of future events? AFL GaryJ Any bad/good news? ChrisGurn TimeOuts to get them.. plus a few extras... I was here when QC talked about it AFC SteveB Well everyone, I'm gonna take off... got a test tomorrow. Nite! AFL Marty Good luck, Steve. AFL GaryJ Goodnight, Steve AFC Softy 'nite dOOd! :D Sheppy Ciao, Steve. ChrisGurn and it thought I was the only one doin schoolin in the summer.:) bye WoodyO Resource Central is moving back into Tom's home. AFL GaryJ I thought that might be happening. AFL GaryJ (Resource Central) ChrisGurn sounds like a mom 'n pop Biz :) Sheppy Hmmm... AFL GaryJ (Now that they don't have all that paper to fuss with) WoodyO But they had a nice sale!!! AFC SteveB [Thanks! And pick up "Siamese Dream"--new Smashing Pumpkins release-- great CD!] Sheppy Sounds like an excellent cost-cutting deal. BilMo Is RC gonna release a 6.0.1 Golden Master? AFL GaryJ I would doubt it, but I dunno. Barnabas Volume call: dev_name: .APPLEDISK5.25A vol_name: :DOS 3.3 v0335 block_size: Barnabas $100 Sheppy Good deal, Greg. AFL GaryJ Thanks, Greg. ChrisGurn Am I missing something Barnabas? AFC DYAJim RC has been shipping 601 for many weeks JWankerl v0335? I thought vs could be 0-255. Hmmm. AFL Marty Yeah but we want it online. AFL GaryJ (I was having a hard time connecting my drive and paying attention to the chat ChrisGurn Jim, r u talking about GS's new sys version? AFL GaryJ at the same time :) Sheppy Joe - the number returned by DOS 3.3 FST is computed from various things -- Barnabas DOS 3.3 disks didn't have names, and volume numbers aren't unique. Sheppy it's not the DOS 3.3 volume number, which was basically always 254. Matt DTS It's not the "volume nubmer" because almost all of them are 254. JWankerl I always uniquely numbered my 3.3 volumes. The INIT command let you. :-) INIT HELLO,V5 JWankerl or something like that. Barnabas Yes, and did we mention that it isn't the volume number (normally 254)? :) ChrisGurn I believe it's been said Barnabas... But I'm not sure.. 254 right? Sheppy No, actually it was 254. :) AFC Softy You got 254 if you didn't specify a number in the INIT command. ChrisGurn So, has anyone else has the new sys version 6.0.1 for the GS? Barnabas Seems like it might have been $FE... or was it %11111110? :) Matt DTS When you teach a programmer how a loop works, and he can suddenly make anything repeat 10,000 times... WoodyO YY Matt DTS ...it gets hard for him to not run -everything- into the ground. :-P AFL GaryJ :) BilMo Chris: Me. Sheppy Chris, you're depressing me. Stop it. :) Barnabas I saw it. AFL GaryJ Well, all programs are into loops of some kind these days. AFC Softy (and like most people who never read docs, people rarely used the V parameter.) JWankerl Finder keyboard navigation sure is fun... :-) Sheppy And anyway, all programmers are a little loopy. Barnabas The only thing I remember different was the Finder highlighting items as you WoodyO 6.0.1 is running here now and I'v already been disconned 2 times BilMo Doesn't make much difference to me, though...I don't have a SuperDrive, so no.. AFC Softy Shep..... we're all waiting for you to order it so WE can... ;) Barnabas dragged the little rectangle over them, so you could see what was inside your Barnabas "marquee". BilMo ..Messy-Dos for me yet. AFL GaryJ Disconnected *because* of 6.0.1? Sheppy Like I said earlier -- I finally gave up and decided that I'll order it some Sheppy time this week. :) DDeityMike When are you going to upload 6.01 to AOL??? Sheppy So it should be online by Monday. AFL GaryJ You should, Eric :) WoodyO Doubt is was 6.0.1 DarinK HELLO AFL GaryJ (We need you to break stand off) AFL GaryJ ooops AFL GaryJ That should be "(We need you to break THE stand off)" AFL GaryJ (It's one of those hostage deals, you know) ChrisGurn I can offer to upload 6.0.1 if u want.. I'm using it now. AFC Softy (and to think all of these people are being deprived because Eric won't order Sheppy Yeah, I know. I'm ready to negotiate. :) AFC Softy it. ;D) DarinK DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO FIND "ACU" ChrisGurn OR can I not? AFL GaryJ Wouldn't do us any good, Chris. AFL GaryJ DarinK: ShrinkIt will unpack ACU files. JWankerl Well, you can probably upload it, but AOL wouldn't be allowed to release it. Sheppy Darin -- ACU was included with my copy of AOL... or was that AppleLink PE... :) Barnabas Just get a list of everybody that wants it, and send it as an attached file AFC DYAJim You don't need ACU anymore AFL Marty Remember when system software was available on online services -before- AFL Marty it got to the dealers? BilMo Woody: AOL HATES running unless you shift-boot. A POS, this program. :) DarinK THANK YOU DDeityMike Thanks for the info Joe Barnabas to everybody in the list, Chris... we'll donate AOL time for you. BilMo POS: Piece of sh*t. :) Matt DTS Greg: Good idea. That's how I get my Softdisk issues. WoodyO Never had that problem before, Bill Barnabas OOoohhhh, NASTY.... we'll have to report you to the Piracy Police! AFL GaryJ Yeah, that has happened before :) DDeityMike Bye... JWankerl Well, gotta go lock up for the night. G'nite all. AFL GaryJ Chris, we have to wait for the licensed copy to come from Apple Sheppy Later, Joe. AFL GaryJ before we can legally distribute it. BilMo Night, Joe: AFL GaryJ Apple has officially stated that they are waiting for Eric to pay money for his copy before sending it AFL GaryJ to online services. AFL GaryJ :) AFC DYAJim Yah, I've gotta go too. I should be here next week fully :) AFC DYAJim Kfest was cool. Sheppy Oh -- it's official now, then? :) AFL GaryJ Goodnight, Jim! Barnabas Later, Jim. AFL GaryJ (How cool, Jim? :) BilMo Night, Jim! Sheppy At any rate, I may try to order it tomorrow. Hmmm, actually, I'm leaving for AFC DYAJim latre :) Barnabas And not just the disks, they insist he buy the full package WITH MANUALS. :) Sheppy three weeks, so if it can't be here within a week, I'd have to wait until ChrisGurn As the numbers dwindle here in A Two Dev, I say good nite and it's been neat. Sheppy the end of August to order it. AFL GaryJ Glad you could come, Chris Sheppy (then y'all would be in serious trouble) AFC Softy Eric.... we'll forward it for you.... ;) Barnabas Historic moment today... I got my mom to play a computer game! (and she won, Sheppy Oh, yes, Softy -- I trust you. Yeah, right... Barnabas too!) Sheppy What game, Greg? Sheppy The only computer game my mom ever played was Space Invaders. She would play Barnabas Milestones 2000. Sheppy that for hours and hours on end. :) Sheppy Ah. That's what I thought. AFL GaryJ I've known Mom's that have been hooked on computer games. AFC Softy I'm very trusting Eric..... :) AFC Softy Hi Don :) BilMo Well, I gotta run, too. 'Bout time to go to my McJob over at ye Hampton Inn... AFC Tosh Hey :) AFL GaryJ McJob? AFL GaryJ McDonalds? WoodyO Anyone else here who was at KansasFest? Sheppy Better than a Mac job. :) BilMo McJob: It's Generation X lingo for a lousy job. AFL GaryJ Jim was, but he just left. AFL GaryJ (at Kfest) AFL GaryJ Oh, Bill :) WoodyO Whats you last name Gary? Matt DTS I was there. Barnabas Anything happen hardware-wise? BilMo Night, all! AFL GaryJ Jacobson, Woddy. AFL GaryJ Woody WoodyO I know, Matt. Nice work. AFL GaryJ (Sheesh, I should learn to type :) Matt DTS Thanks. AFL GaryJ Matt was the official all-Apple man. Barnabas Dave didn't go? Sheppy A real jack-of-all-trades? AFL GaryJ Not that I heard (about Dave) Matt DTS I was _not_ representing Apple. Barnabas No need to get defensive about it, Matt... :) WoodyO I'm thinking of giving Matt piano lessons. AFL GaryJ So, Apple had no "official" representation? That's too bad. Barnabas (I know... it's that Sculley-thing rubbing off :) Sheppy Why would Apple want to call attention to itself at an all Apple II gathering? AFL GaryJ Good point. Sheppy They'd be a likely candidate for a lynching. AFL GaryJ Besides, it's the celebration of "Kansas", not Apple. Sheppy What's to celebrate about Kansas? It's just a great flat spot on the map. :) AFL GaryJ A wet spot, from what I heard. Sheppy True. WoodyO and warm WoodyO and humid AFC Softy (hey... watch it with the spot jokes... ;) Sheppy :) AFL GaryJ :) Sheppy Relax, Spots, we weren't talking about you. AFL GaryJ Hi Steven AFL GaryJ I was hoping that 6.0.1 would make it to Stevenyou HI i JUST THOUGHT I'D DROP BY. I USUALLY DOWNLOAD THE MINUTES. WoodyO I thought the Deathrige Forum (at lunch) was the highlite of KansasFest AFL GaryJ debut online here at KansasFest time. Sheppy Who do I have to kill to get a copy of 6.0.1? :) AFC Softy Was there any more talk on the Avatar at KFest? Matt DTS Woody: You have very low standards. :) AFC Softy (assuming Bill Hieneman was there.. ) WoodyO Resource Central has 6.0.1 AFL GaryJ Glad you dropped in, Steven WoodyO Matt, it was great Sheppy Anybody know how long it's taking from order to shipping to get 6.0.1 from RC? WoodyO Its in stock AFA Jay you'll get it the day AOL does :) AFL GaryJ Depends on what side of the Mississippi you are on, I think. WoodyO Costs $24.00 Sheppy Really? Wow. I guess, well... hmm. My schedule is a disaster, but I'll try Sheppy to order it tomorrow, I guess. AFL GaryJ Thanks, Eric :) AFL GaryJ (That should help our cause :) AFC Softy Usually from 3-4 days Eric. :) AFC Softy At least from my own experience... :) Sheppy How do they ship, anyway? AFA Jay river barge :) Sheppy Hmph. Stevenyou HOW MANY DISKS THIS TIME? IS IT BETTER THAN 6.0? LESS BUGS? AFC Softy JAY!!! :D WoodyO 6 AFL GaryJ Well, old 6.0 bugs are gone. Sheppy Forty-two disks, Steven. New bugs. AFL GaryJ (But it's always hard to say "less bugs", because not all the bugs are AFL GaryJ known yet :) AFL GaryJ 6 disks Sheppy I only had two problems with 6.0, and those were really odd things that only AFC Softy In LA it's more bugs.... they just released 42 million sterile MedFlies today. Sheppy showed up because of bugs in my code. Barnabas The reason 6.0.1 isn't here yet is because of the Curse... WoodyO Keyboard navigation is the big thing with the finder :) Barnabas ...that all odd-numbered System Software releases for the Apple fall under... WoodyO ...and phantom icons Sheppy Which curse, Greg? Must have something to do with me. Sheppy Oh, right. The Odd-numbered Versions Curse. :) AFC Softy Frankie!! :D Barnabas (heck, even hardware... remember the Apple III?) Stevenyou I GET ONE 6.0 BUG WHER THE THERMOMETER GETS MESSED UP. THERE ARE TWO VARIATIONS BCS Frank Soft, y'all, Hi :) Barnabas (and of course, 5.0.1 and 5.0.3, which were quickly replaced with even-numbered AFC Softy Uh oh.... that means the Mac Performa 405 is doomed then... ;) DDeityMike Hello Barnabas version to fix their horrible bugs...) AFA Jay oh darn, Softy :) DDeityMike Does anyone know where I can get the Manager v1.1 IAC codes? AFC Softy ....and the Mac LC III ;) BCS Frank ... So Apple should start with the Newton PDA 2.0? Barnabas I don't think the curse is efficacious against the Mac... it is just Sheppy I bet Seven Hills knows them, DD. :) Barnabas generally cursed... :) DDeityMike generally cursed with what??? AFC Softy Steven.... it's easier to read if you unlock your caps lock.. :) AFA Jay System 7 :) AFL GaryJ Cursed by Apple II users daily, across the nation. AFC Softy Steven.... What thermometer problem ??? Barnabas In fact, removing your CAPS lock also cures male-pattern baldness and hives. AFL GaryJ Yeah, I was wanting to see if Steven had more to say about the thermometer problem. Matt DTS Well, folks, if it's not going to get any better than this, I'm taking off. Sheppy Don't blame you, Matt. DDeityMike Is the thermometer problem a sys6.01 bug? AFL GaryJ Matt's one of the good guys :) Barnabas Don't be so hard on yourself, Matt... I'm sure it isn't your fault... :) WoodyO See you next year, Matt, at Kansas Fest if you promise not to sing Matt DTS See ya around. DDeityMike bye AFL GaryJ Goodnight, Matt! BCS Frank Still glad to see you, Matt :) AFC Softy No..... 6.0, I believe. Stevenyou When copying files I sometimes lose the bar itself sporadically Stevenyou It is a 6.0 bug Barnabas Never heard of it. DDeityMike That is because the Finder asks for a disk dialog and doesn't update the screen WoodyO me neither AFC Softy Are these large files or small ones? Sheppy I'm going to take off. I may be back in a few minutes. DDeityMike Softy-For me, this happens when a disk is switched before the dialog Stevenyou Usually I copy groups of files. E.G. System Disks Stevenyou Even if AFC Softy Hi Mike :) MikeF32 DDeityMike Stevenyou-Does this happen when you switch disks before the copy starts? Stevenyou I wait I get the problem. The refresh fix did not help DDeityMike The refresh fix deals with the desktop region's contents, not the dialogs.