America Online APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG Tuesday, May 12, 1992 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time Topic: Marketing Your Software Forum Leader: Gary Jacobson (AFL GaryJ) AFL GaryJ Welcome to the Apple II Devleopment Forum! AFL GaryJ Tonight's topic is "Marketing Your Software", or, "What do I do with this AFL GaryJ thing now that I've written it?" AFL GaryJ Tonight we can discuss some of the ways to market software that you've written (or, AFL GaryJ whatever else comes up) AFC DYAJim Sorry I am late - I was debugging T2 Sheppy Sounds ominous... like a violent movie or something! :) AFL GaryJ I think most people here are seasoned programmers, and many of you have AFL GaryJ had experience in marketing your software already. Pest II not I. I only beta software... I'm only just learning to program AFC DYAJim I might have experience of marketing my software this summer AFC DYAJim Has anyone done it theirselves (without resorting to Shareware)? Dave Lyons ("Twilight 2: Judgement CDev"??) AFC DYAJim Lol Dave! :-) AFL GaryJ :) AFC DYAJim Gary, I think you credit too much existing experience AFL GaryJ Possibly :) People like Dave and Andy have had much experience in the AFL GaryJ Shareware area, for sure. AFC DYAJim You don't really market your own Shareware AFC DYAJim (imo) Sheppy Shareware doesn't get marketed... it just kinda happens. Sheppy ... (or it doesn't). AFL GaryJ There are companies who have been looking for titles to publish (for the IIGS). AFC DYAJim who? AFL GaryJ SevenHills, for one. Pest II what kind of software? AFL GaryJ I haven't talked with them in the last few months, but about 4 or 5 months AFL GaryJ ago they were seeking all kinds of software (even considering games) Pest II I mean Brian Greenstone was looking to sell software for the GS... Pest II he did some shareware games and I haven't heard from him in a while Pest II but I don't think it went all that well AFL GaryJ SoftDisk has been looking for titles, as well. AFC DYAJim On the contrary, I thought that cosmocade went incredibly excellent AFC DYAJim much better than he thought, and then he still quit even tho earlier he said AFC DYAJim that if it did well he would complete it and make it better. AFC DYAJim fizzle. Pest II I don't play games much, but thought that these were so well done that they Pest II deserved my shareware fees AFC DYAJim I would be reluctant to publish huge things with SDGS. AFC DYAJim But for smaller programs I think it would be great AFL GaryJ I agree, Jim. Pest II SDGS? Sheppy SoftDisk GS. AFL GaryJ SoftDisk pays fairly well, if you are the hobyist type. AFL GaryJ (Not in it for a career) AFL GaryJ Shareware CAN do quite well, if you have the right kind of product. Sheppy ...And if you're good at inspiring deep feelings of guilt in the user! :) AFL GaryJ I have a friend who wrote a simple little CDA that controls the page position AFL GaryJ on your ImageWriter II printer, and he was very much surprised by the AFL GaryJ response he got on shareware (he only asked $5 for the program) AFA Jay One of the shareware gimicks I liked was FileTools :) AFL GaryJ Yes, Jay :) I liked the FileTools gimick too :) AFC DYAJim I liked the MINES NDA AFC DYAJim (by tom hoke) Sheppy I'd use it, but I have to reboot after playing it. AFL Marty What's the Mines NDA? AFC DYAJim it's neat - it's a little game in an NDA - done really well - AFC DYAJim it makes these minefields, and you have to navigate thru the mines to the AFL Marty It's over in AGM? AFC DYAJim bottom right corner without running into any mines - each block you move AFC DYAJim into gives you the number of mines surrounding that block. the strategy is AFC DYAJim pretty cool :-) AFC DYAJim it should be in AGM - at least a demo version :) AFC DYAJim I got the demo somewhere on ao.. AFL GaryJ Jim, in what way do you wish to market your program (on your own)? AFL GaryJ (I mean, what do you have in mind?) AFC DYAJim Well .. first I guess I'll show it to all the publishers that still are out AFC DYAJim there, and see what they each say. If I don't like any of them, I think AFC DYAJim it would be an interesting experience then to do it on my own. As for ideas.. AFC DYAJim I'd distribute demo versions all over the place - put them on all the AFC DYAJim networks, etc, and send them to all Apple II user groups with a special offer. AFC DYAJim There would be several different kinds of upgrade paths from T1.0 depending AFC DYAJim on a number of factors. AFL Marty How do you do a demo version of a screen blanker? AFC DYAJim I also would probably take out some ads in GS+, and talk to all the software AFC DYAJim distributors (like TMS, LRO, Programs Plus, etc) AFC DYAJim As for a demo version.. like this: AFC DYAJim (Someone suggested an awesome idea and I have it saved but can't remember AFC DYAJim it offhand - one sec while I type it from NL :) AFL GaryJ (Type it from NL?) Dave Lyons (NiftyFile, no doubt!) AFL GaryJ Maybe it only blanks your screen one time, or it displays, "Send for the real program" AFL GaryJ all over your screen. Sheppy Maybe its an app. that blanks the screen and that's all it does. I dunno... AFC DYAJim Ok.. as for a demo version.. AFL Marty Blanks the screen foring a reboot to unblank? :) Pest II don't want the screen to blank during printing Sheppy Oh, no. That's really annoying! AFL Marty Yes, isn't it. :) AFL GaryJ :) AFC DYAJim I can't find the file offhand.. bUT, if I remember correctly >> AFC DYAJim Options and Corners would be disabled (so it would be set at something like AFC DYAJim 2 minute blank, bottom right: blank now, bottom left: don't blank, top right AFC DYAJim and left: disabled) AFC DYAJim then it would come with 1 module that flashes/animates information on how AFC DYAJim to purchase T2. AFC DYAJim the module format of the demo would be significantly altered so that you AFC DYAJim couldn't use commercial version modules with the demo version. AFC DYAJim As for blanking during printing - hasn't happened to me yet. :) Sheppy Logical. Sounds good! AFL GaryJ That's a pretty good idea, Jim. (Make sure the advertisement always AFL GaryJ shows up in the same place on the screen, so it will burn into the monitor REAL good :) Sheppy Heh, heh, heh! :) AFC DYAJim burn that advertisment in.. AFC DYAJim "This is why you need a screen saver!" AFC DYAJim I haven't gotten T2 to blank during printing yet AFL Marty You've given thought to a price? Sheppy Oh, good. How about disk accesses? QuackDuck Jim, does T2 work with P8? AFC DYAJim Not yet. I know that Signature is $30, but Phantazm will look like BASIC AFC DYAJim when compared to T2. It is nowhere near it. AFC DYAJim T2 works fine with P8. AFC DYAJim What do you mean by disk accesses? AFC DYAJim I can put the cursor to the blank now corner, say, during shrinking or AFC DYAJim unshrinking, and it will blank and let gshk continue to run. AFC DYAJim (make that background blank now corner) QuackDuck Jim, T2 uses SHR in P8 Text? Sheppy Sometimes T1 blanks during long copy operations from the Finder, for example. Sheppy (thus pausing the copy operation). AFC DYAJim T2 uses text in P8 text. QuackDuck Cool! AFL Marty Are you toying with a price around $30? AFL Marty (trying to get an idea of what this will cost) AFC DYAJim (you can do the same thing as I just described for gshk for the finder) AFL Marty Also, what kind of break will registered T1 owners get? QuackDuck Is the demo out yet? :D AFC DYAJim Yes, I'm toying around with ~ $30. Sheppy Is it required that you do the "Blank Now" or will auto-blanking let operations Sheppy proceed normally? AFL Marty Actually, I'm two registered T1 owners. AFC DYAJim Registered users will get somewhere from $5-$15 off depending on a few factors. AFL Marty (I paid double the requested shareware fee) AFC DYAJim Eric - you have to move the mouse to the don't blank or background blank AFC DYAJim now corners. Sheppy Ah. Okay. AFC DYAJim However - i am considering an option that will do a background blank when AFC DYAJim it is time to blank the screen. Sheppy Any particular reason? AFC DYAJim (so it would do it itself) AFC DYAJim I remember, Marty :-) AFC DYAJim You were one of the first.. Sheppy That'd be nice, Jim. I'd pay $5 more for that feature! Sheppy Actually, Jim, I'd PREFER a background blank to the normal blank. AFC DYAJim Background blank looks slick too - it fades the screen out and back in AFC DYAJim (as of tonight :-) Sheppy Cool. AFL Marty I'll be happy if it works on my system Sheppy. AFA Jay are background blanks just blanks, or do they do stuff too? Sheppy Oh, yeah, well, sure... AFC DYAJim just black because the GS can't multitask AFA Jay sure it can :) AFA Jay I GNO how :) Sheppy Oh, well, um... bummer. I guess the regular save is okay, then. Cantcha Sheppy do some careful run queue stuff? AFC DYAJim I already use the runq Sheppy Well, I mean for some kind of SHR action. Nah, never mind... AFL GaryJ <- still uses OmniScreen QuackDuck <- Phantasm Here! ::ducking:: AFL Marty Why ducking? I use Phantasm also. AFL GaryJ Don't you mean, "::quacking::"? :) Sheppy More like ::chickening:: :) AFC DYAJim I severely dislike phantasm :> QuackDuck No, ::QuackDucking:: Sheppy Yeah, well, that's understandable! :) Sheppy You've got T2... AFL Marty Sorry... I can't buy what's not available. AFL GaryJ Some people actually do, Marty. Sheppy I did that once... totally by mistake. AFL GaryJ (Witness the last version of Complete Pascal) AFL GaryJ Marketing tip: "Vaporware" is not a well liked idea of marketing software. Toleth How would you assemble the MVN instruction in APW ? AFC DYAJim mvn $010000,$e10000 I think AFL GaryJ Toleth, yes, as Jim pointed out, you have to include the COMPLETE AFL GaryJ address in order for the MVN to recognize the correct bank. Toleth Thanks !! Sheppy That's true... marketing folks haven't figured it out yet, though. AFL Marty (neither is BetaWare... witness AWGS v1.0) Sheppy Yeah, AWGS v1.0... not too sharp, I hear. AFL Marty (HyperStudio 1.0 wasn't so hot either) QuackDuck Dave, In the new A2 Guide, it says System 6.0, by Andy Nicholas, when the real QuackDuck 6.0 says by "Andy Nicholas and Dave Lyons" MikeF32 Andy Nicholas no longer is in the Apple II division QuackDuck I know.. Sheppy Quack: they're closer than you think... :) MikeF32 So Dave lyons works on it now QuackDuck I know Mike! MikeF32 (shrug) Maybe the Apple II guide was written before that Sheppy QuackDuck The A2 Guide doesn't have your name in the Screen SHot tho! :D Dave Lyons I worked on the Finder during 6.0...not as much as Andy, Dave Lyons but as we went along my contribution eventually got significant enough that Andy put me in the About Dave Lyons box. When the article was written I probably wasn't in there yet. QuackDuck :D DangardAce Looks like the usual cast of suspects. (c) 1992 DangardAce, Ink. Dave Lyons BTW, most of my Finder stuff was related to Finder Extension support. (Plus miscellaneous stuff, Dave Lyons mostly things that had always bugged me. I managed to get my fingers in -lots- of 6.0, spreading Dave Lyons myself tooooo thin....) Sheppy Dave: I know, you're name's everywhere. Can't believe you haven't gone nuts Sheppy yet. Or have you? Hmmmmm... :) MikeF32 He is nuts AFC DYAJim Dave I think you're an AI program on Apple's Cray. AFC DYAJim A productivity powerhouse AFC DYAJim I wouldn't mind if I could get so much done :) Sheppy No, no. I've met him in real life. Forgot to get an autograph, though... :) Dave Lyons (I think I've been nuts for Some Time Now... %-\ ) AFL GaryJ Looks like Jim has a real question. WinkieJim Two real questions actualy :) WinkieJim okay, anyone out there familar with accessign the GS's serial ports through WinkieJim Applesoft? (such as communication with a divice hooked up via the modem port?) Sheppy Eeeeeeeewwwwwwww! :) WinkieJim Spelling mistakes not my falt ;) AFA Jay pr#1 :) AFA Jay in#1 :) AFA Jay then you use the control characters and such as it says in firmware AFA Jay to set up the serial communications... QuackDuck I know how to IN#, PR# through it :D QuackDuck pr#2, in#1, control-a, t Dave Lyons Doesn't Morgan Davis have a product helpful for that....ModemWorks, or something? AFL GaryJ Yes he does, Dave. AFL GaryJ ModemWorks is good for that sort of thing. QuackDuck IN#2, PR#2, ^A, T, AT{command} WinkieJim mmm, might help.... Sheppy Check out the Firmware Reference (IIGS). Tells you how. DangardAce Sounds more like the Apple Communications Card.. still got one of those some DangardAce where WinkieJim not AT commands...not a modem... AFL GaryJ You're limited as to what you can do from Applesoft alone (that's why something like AFL GaryJ ModemWorks comes in handy) AFL GaryJ Not a modem? Sheppy Yeah, BASIC is too slow for most serial-type programming unless you... Sheppy write machine language modules to do the real work. WinkieJim I can get ProTerm to communicate with the device (a motor) but WinkieJim from FP it just send the chars out and the motor ignores it... QuackDuck Did you press ^T, and then A??? QuackDuck I mean, ^A, and then T? WinkieJim But, I will check modem works out... WinkieJim Yes, I tried getting to the terminal mode WinkieJim But that didn't work either QuackDuck Oh, okay.. AFA Jay There's a way to do it, I've done it :) WinkieJim any guess how to set FUll Duplex mode from basic...firmware ref doesn't WinkieJim mention it... QuackDuck Terminal Mode is full duplex.. WinkieJim Hmm, well it doesn't seem to work for us QuackDuck Set your CtlPanel.. WinkieJim No duplex settign in the CP Sheppy Echo? AFA Jay You can set Echoing... AFA Jay EE and ED Sheppy Yeah, echo. AFL GaryJ You can set the echo in CP WinkieJim Tried Echo On and off...nadda... WinkieJim well, second question.... WinkieJim anyone else having problems with IR 2.0? Sheppy There's a 2.01 now, I think. AFA Jay try 2.0.1 :) AFL GaryJ Matt's not even here to defend himself. MikeF32 IR 2.01 fixes a problem in the srqGoAway...that's IT AFL GaryJ What kind of problems, Winkie? WinkieJim Ya, but that's jusr for finderevents... MikeF32 Yeah WinkieJim Well, it has a tendancy to corrupt a NDA I try to install. (I've went back to WinkieJim the old IR) Dave Lyons You went back to the -application- IR, you mean? WinkieJim yup Dave Lyons Corrupt how, like mess up the on-disk copy?? WinkieJim so what if I have 10 super info ndas installed :) WinkieJim yup, dammages the on disk copy Dave Lyons Ack! Nope, I've never heard of that, and I don't see how it can happen...the only way it accesses Dave Lyons the file is by calling InitialLoad2 in GS/OS, which opens the file read-only to load it. Is it only Dave Lyons with a particular NDA? Maybe one that tries to write to its own disk image? WinkieJim Dave, ya it saves a few bytes close to the start of the file.