Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  My list                               91-03-17 14:00:06 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

* FST's for Mac, MS-DOS, and DOS 3.3 * Use of all characters in file
names (spaces, dashes, etc.) * No limit on disk sizes (in GS/OS or
ProDOS 8) * MultiFinder GS * Add Drivers for large screens * Improve
drivers for all printers (especially laser printers) * Allow print
drivers to print up to 320*200*3200 or 640*200*800 * Add Print Buffer
option to the RAM CDev * Modify advanced disk util to format optical
hard drives * Speed things up anyway you can

-Smullen


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Wish list                             91-03-17 14:02:04 EST
From:  Spaz Posted on: America Online

Looks awesome to me.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Quite a list, but I disagree...       91-03-17 14:25:39 EST
From:  AFA Gary J Posted on: America Online

I disagree on the "* No limit on disk sizes (in GS/OS or ProDOS 8)"
request.  I don't think that request would be worth the hassle of
"fixing" the tons of ProDOS 8 programs (and probably a few GS/OS
programs that don't follow guidelines) that would break after such a
change.   It would be nice, however, to have the Mac HFS FST that would
work with GS/OS and allow the large volume sizes.

Gary


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Let's look at some of these           91-03-17 19:30:38 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

* Use of all characters in file names (spaces, dashes, etc.)

This is a limitation of disk file systems, such as the ProDOS file
system.  ProDOS does not allow spaces in file names, and changing this
so that someone puts spaces or dashes or whatever into ProDOS
directories will only break a lot of ProDOS 8 programs.  Other file
systems (like HFS and DOS 3.3) are more tolerant of different
characters.

* No limit on disk sizes (in GS/OS or ProDOS 8)

ProDOS 8 is _NOT_ going to give you more than 32 MB per volume. 
There's a sidebar in my article in the Apple II Guide talking about
this.

* Add Drivers for large screens

Presumably you want QuickDraw rewritten to support some kind of video
card that's not currently designed.  Difficult, but not impossible. 
However, it would break about 70% of all current IIgs applications,
which have either hard-coded screen sizes or draw directly to the
screen.

* Improve drivers for all printers (especially laser printers)

Do you have any specific suggestions for the LaserWriter driver?

* Allow print drivers to print up to 320*200*3200 or 640*200*800

Numbers without units don't mean anything.  Please clarify what you're
asking for.

* Modify advanced disk util to format optical hard drives

ADU only constructs SCSI Partition Maps and writes them to disks with
driver-specific Driver_Control calls.  A driver that can format the
disk must exist for anyone, including ADU, to be able to format it.

* Speed things up anyway you can

Don't we always?  :)

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Matt... what about...                 91-03-17 22:02:07 EST
From:  Spaz Posted on: America Online

the FST ideas. I'd love to see some of those.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Always nice...                        91-03-18 00:52:22 EST
From:  ChrisMIPS Posted on: America Online

...to see a response from DTS!


Thanks, Matt!


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Matt, can we infer...                 91-03-18 21:11:39 EST
From:  PatrickC19 Posted on: America Online

...from your lack of response to items 2, 15, 23.a and 74 that although
you cannot comment on comments about unreleased or released yet lost
products that may or may not be in any west coast warehouse whose
address we cannot confirm without State  Department authorization...

...that more FSTs, multifinder GS, True Type Fonts and a picosecond
preemptive multitasking scheduler are in the works...



[ It's a joke!  I'm just *joking* ]

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I use a LaserwriterIINT,              91-03-18 21:59:06 EST
From:  Scapino Posted on: America Online

and I'd like to be able to rotate fonts on the screen and to the
printer. This probably requires Postscript like fonts on the screen.
Twould be nice. Kurt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  It would be nice, but....             91-03-18 22:45:00 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

it's a hardware problem...... make all 16 megs (capability of machine)
addressable. Who uses all the ROM space anyway?

The Mac & MS-DOS FSTs would be REALLY great. ~~~~~~

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Nits                                  91-03-18 23:42:24 EST
From:  JWankerl Posted on: America Online

Well just to pick nits here, I will assume that you mean System Disk
6.0, not GS/OS 6.0.  :-)  The next system software really ought to
display version numbers obviously upon boot - System Disk 6.0 - GS/OS
4.0 or some such nonsense.

-Josef Wankerl Technical Editor GS+ Magazine

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Looking at some...                    91-03-18 23:53:17 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

Problem with laser printer drivers: There's only one! Apple's 20
zillion dollar laserwriter is the only one supported. Make an official
Apple printer driver for others including HP printers.

Large screens: As long as they can still work (just not taking
advantage of the larger size) it's fine with me. Developers won't stop
hard encoding until Apple makes official support for large screens
availible.

Size limits in P8: Forget about that request. The only P8 program I use
is ProTerm. And I going to get SnowTerm once it supports file x-fers.

Characters in pathnames: The Mac lets you use basicly what ever you
want. Why can't GS/OS?

-Smullen

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Let's see...                          91-03-19 00:11:05 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

My biggest wish for System Disk 6.0 is that it arrives soon :)

Comments:  GS/OS DOES support most of the stuff you list.  It supports
weird characters in names, long names, volumes bigger than 32 meg, etc.
 I've played around with a GS on AppleShare using the AppleShare FST
(same for the High Sierra FST) and you can do ALL of that stuff.  The
problem is the ProDOS FST---which doesn't support any of that and
probably never will.

The only way to get those capabilities will be with another read-write
FST that works on local drives.  Of course, P8 programs won't be able
to use disks formatted under that FST, BUT I DON'T CARE! 99% of my work
is now done with non-P8 software, and when I need something for P8, I
can copy the file to a ProDOS disk.

PLEASE RUSH OUT THOSE FST's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


---me

P.S.  The Apple LaserWriter driver seems to work with virtually all the
non-Apple printers that support PostScript and AppleTalk that I've
tried.  (not to mention the TWO companies that market drivers for HP
laser printers! :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  SysSoft 6.0 / GSOS 4.0                91-03-19 01:45:25 EST
From:  Spaz Posted on: America Online

I like the idea of the FST's and the  Multifinder GS and I know they
must both easily be feasible after seeing the porting of HyperCard.
However, there is one thing that Apple has always done that is
constantly causing problems for programmers, developers, and users:
compatibility (or is it combatibility). With every version of GS/OS
there is a change here, another there, but the fact remains that by
constantly changing the format of something it is throwing a curve to
the user. Try to keep the old system software, but improve on it, don't
rewrite it. As always make it faster, but keep it from being buggy.
Don't try to smash so many 'features' into the package as it crashes at
the drop of a hat. Ideas: I think that the only thing limiting the use
of high density disks it the driver and a drive. I am contradicting
myself a little, but I would like to see High-Density made a standard
in then Apple II world. Then the system software could be bigger and
better. Why doesn't Apple write a VERY small launcher for disks which
need the maximum amount of system software support? I know about
several shareware ones, but when you rewrite the SS (system software),
that may mess them up. How about the great CDEVs which are on the Mac.
I realize that this is looking like I want the Mac in a II, but this is
a very real request with much work. Why not make some of the great
CDEVs which are out for the Mac, out for the II. Chew on that for a
while, Spaz


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Yeah Phantom!                         91-03-19 19:16:08 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

I agree..  Personally, if I could have my way, I would have a small
(2-4 mb probably) partition setup for ProDOS [8], and then use the rest
of my space for a GS specific FST (let's face it: ProDOS FST is just as
limiting as ProDOS 8); one that supported all kinds of characters in
filenames and whatnot. That brings up an interesting question..  if we
did (hypothetically speaking :) get a Mac FST, does this mean we could
store S16 and other GS-specific programs and data on it?  Could it, in
essense, replace the ProDOS FST for GS users who don't need the
restrictions the ProDOS FST places on everything to remain compatible
with ProDOS 8?

just something to think about. :)

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Geez!                                 91-03-19 21:14:42 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Now I have to comment on everything or it's taken as unspoken
implications that it's coming!  You guys.

Let's try some more of these:

FSTs:  An MS-DOS FST would only be mostly useful if we had some kind of
SuperDrive access to MFM-formatted disks on the IIgs.  Currently,
without a PC Transporter card, we do not.

Jim:  You're correct, an HFS FST (please don't call it a "Mac FST",
anyone, the Macintosh can support as many file systems as the IIgs and
some more that you don't even care about, like MFS) would allow you to
use HFS disks just like ProDOS disks, except with the advantages
(larger disk sizes, longer file names, more characters allowed) and
disadvantages (larger directories, slower file-access time) of HFS. 
That doesn't, however, necessarily mean you'd be able to *boot* from
it.  And remember that no files on any non-ProDOS disk are accessible
to any ProDOS 8 program, although any GS/OS file-based copy program is
able to copy them.

Non-Apple printer drivers:  I really dislike that idea.  Apple should
spend Apple's engineering time doing those things only we can do (like
FSTs) and supporting Apple peripherals.  We've made the structure of
printer drivers (and port drivers) accessible for a number of years and
have been constantly improving the documentation, so that any developer
can write a printer driver for any specific printer.  If you want one,
go for it.

MultiFinder:  MultiFinder was always a misnomer - it's not an
application like the Finder, but rather a part of the system software
that patches out the rest of the system like crazy.  It's called the
"Process Manager" in Macintosh System 7.0 to emphasize its true nature.
 Such a thing is theoretically possible on the IIgs, but to be truly
useful requires more memory than currently ships with the system.

TrueType fonts:  Since TrueType fonts are floating-point based
algorithms, imaging one into a bitmap could take quite a bit of time on
the IIgs.  A new Font Manager that does this for you would probably be
annoyingly slow, but a conversion utility that converts TrueType fonts
into IIgs Font Manager fonts is not only possible, it's feasible today
(the TrueType specification is at APDA now).  Anyone feel up to some
fonting?  :)

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I think so.                           91-03-19 21:17:38 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

It seems that way on the Appleshare network at work.  I would boot from
a floppy (no hard drive) and then access EVERYTHING from a Mac's hard
drive over AppleShare.  All of the previously described limitations
were gone.  It should work fine :)

Two questions I'd like answers to, though:

1)  Could a GS boot from a non-ProDOS disk?  (I think so, based on the
existence of DOS 3.3, Pascal, and the numerous custom operating systems
used in games and stuff like FTA does.)

2)  Would ProDOS 8 be able to access stuff that had P8 legal pathnames?
 It works under AppleShare!  Even if the answer is no, I STILL would
want the FST's! :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  A Finder wish                         91-03-19 22:43:19 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

(NOTE:  Matt and I posted at the same time, and my last post was before
I saw his.  This one is an entirely different topic.)

Here's a suggestion for Andy and the Finder:  AppleWorks GS checks its
icon file every time it starts and makes sure that the pathnames it
contains match the actual pathname to where it is.  In this way, even
if it is moved, after it is launched once manually, it updates the icon
file so that you can double-click on the documents to start it.  Why
not make that part of the Finder?  When an app is launched, if it has a
custom icon, update the pathname. Unfortunately, AWGS assumes its icons
are on the boot volume---but I'm sure you could come up with something.

As an alternative, how about building into GS/OS routines to
automatically create a resource containing the pathname to the app
whenever a document is saved?  The Finder could use these---although
that wouldn't help if a doc was used on a different machine or the app
was moved.

Maybe those wouldn't work---but I'm sure you can come up with something
that would!

Also, most of the Finder features from Mac Sys. 7 are pretty nifty :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Icon Info...                          91-03-19 23:56:35 EST
From:  Spaz Posted on: America Online

What about an Icon info like the Mac ones. Have versions and area for a
note.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Macintosh Info Field...               91-03-20 02:00:49 EST
From:  ChrisMIPS Posted on: America Online

It seems to me that implementing such a feature would entail two
things: 1: Define a new 'rNoteField' resource type, which would contain
the 'note' text and any other pertinent info that can't already be
gotten at using a GetFileInfo() call. 2: Either be willing to manually
LoadResource() every time you wanted the note text from a file (after
going through and opening the file, getting the file info to make sure
it has a resource fork, opening the resource fork, etc), or define a
new GSOS call, something like getInfoText(int refNum,textBuffHndl
myHandle). Any ideas?


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Info Fields                           91-03-20 19:21:34 EST
From:  GS Express Posted on: America Online

Yeah, put info that is stored as a resource on all of your favorite P8
applications and then watch P8 choke when you try to launch them...


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Stuff                                 91-03-20 20:12:14 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

0)  We have defined rVersion and rComment resource formats for possible
future use by Finder-like programs.  See Apple IIgs TN #76 (January
1991 or later).

Now back to the already-numbered questions:

1)  GS/OS has a mechanism to boot from non-ProDOS file systems.  This
was described in an appendix to the old Volume 1 GS/OS Reference
(removed for the A-W book since third parties can't write FSTs and you
don't want to pay for pages you can't use), so it is possible, but not
necessarily easy.  In the given HFS example, the first byte of an Apple
II boot block has to be $00 and the first word of an HFS boot block has
to be a non-zero signature word.  Either way, the disk would refuse to
do useful things on either a Mac or a IIgs.

2)  AppleShare works with ProDOS 8 because AppleShare patches directly
into the $BF00 vector and intercepts ProDOS calls, transforming them
into AFP calls if the destination is a server volume.  So AppleShare is
a different animal in this case; P8 would not work with non-ProDOS file
systems even if the file names were syntactically compatible.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Optical Drives                        91-03-20 21:39:58 EST
From:  MattG Posted on: America Online

Matt and smullen,

The AppleHD.Driver currently will talk to the Sony Optical Drive.  It
will also format it.  It has been able to do this ever since 5.0 first
shipped.  I take it from your list smullen that you have had some
problems.  What are they?  Maybe I can give you some info.

Matt Gulick


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  a question...                         91-03-20 23:25:30 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

Matt:

maybe I'm misunderstanding something...

I thought the GS could handle more than 1 FST at a time, i.e. it could
read from one file system and write to another in the same session.
From what is said, the GS can only address 1 FST at a time and cannot
"cross" file systems.

I have to "old" GSOS manual and will look this up again, but my
impression was that GSOS didn't care what file system it was to use as
long as the FST was available for it's "translation". Therefore, GSOS
should be able to "boot" another system (boot= lack of better term...)
once GSOS is up and running.

Am I incorrect in this assumption?

Thanks.....

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  STuff                                 91-03-22 00:15:02 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Matt:  It looks like a hard drive?  Cool.  Then ADU should be able to
do anything to it that it can do to a hard drive, smullen.

Phil:  Yes and No.  If an FST is available, GS/OS can read (and often
write) that file system (although some FSTs, like High Sierra/ISO 9660)
are read-only.

However, *booting* the system is totally different.  Booting the system
means reading the FSTs off the disk, and how can you use an FST to read
itself off the disk?  You can't.

What happens is that there is a defined protocol.  What's called an
"FST Stub" resides in some code, somewhere, and the rest of GS/OS
officially Does Not Care how it got there.  All it has to do is somehow
load itself at $00/2000, load START.GS.OS at $00/6800 and jump to it,
and respond by reading in files in the file system it supports when
GS/OS calls it to do so.  The name of the FST it's a stub for is
hard-coded into this stub as well, so GS/OS knows which one is the boot
FST and can load and initialize it first.

The only existing boot stub is for the ProDOS file system, and that's
what's in GS/OS's version of the file *:PRODOS.  It's called PRODOS
(just like P8 is on an eight-bit disk) so the same boot blocks which
have always existed can load it.  If we had an HFS FST, then if we had
boot blocks and an FST stub, we could boot from HFS as well.  However,
just the existance of an FST is not enough to boot from that disk. 
There has to be enough code somewhere to read the FST off the disk
you're booting from.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  speech?                               91-03-23 23:32:43 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

How about something like MacInTalk?  Actually, something more along the
lines of the successor to MacInTalk (much better speech that sounded
much less computerish) shown at the World Wide Developer's Conference
last year.  I think it'd be pretty neat to have a standard resource
that could be called by software to implement speech.  The Finder and
GS/OS themselves could use it to provide error messages and requests
("GS/OS does not recognize the format of this disk.") that are actually
spoken to the user. :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  First byte Tools                      91-03-24 07:57:18 EST
From:  GSGM Posted on: America Online

There does exsist tools number 50,51,52 that implement speech for the
GS.

There are two basic problems.

1) Getting the tools (They are owned by First Byte) 2) Changing
programs to use the tools.

Problem one is not hard to solve and it does not involve Apple buying
the rights to the tools. All that is involved is to have GS/OS
recogonize systems that already have those tools in the Tools folder
and load them at boot time.  Then it would just be a matter of passing
a text string to the tools to generate the speech you (and others like
myself) wish for.

The best way to solve the second would probably be to have the speech
tools be a part of the dialog manager. Passing a string constant to the
dialog manager could display then pass the string to the speech tools.

Just a few thoughts GSGM


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  My 2 cents...                         91-03-26 22:32:28 EST
From:  RickR31 Posted on: America Online

I think someone mentioned it before, but the addition of Postcript
fonts would be monumental in terms of desktop publishing.  For example,
GWIII gives you all these fonts on disk, but they're bit-mapped.  Print
them alongside a font resident in the Laserwriter and the bit-mapping
becomes very obvious.  How difficult would Postcript fonts be?  I'm not
asking for Postcript screen fonts; just the ability to download a
Postcript font from my GS to my IINT...although others may be asking
for it...  :)

Rick

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  More Postscript                       91-03-27 00:23:39 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

I agree. The ability to download Postscript fonts to the printer is an
excellent idea. I have talked to BurgerBill several times about this.
He is so busy that he can't get around to it ( and I can't afford it
either...), but this is something that SHOULD be done with the system
software. This ability SHOULD be in the LaserWriter driver, just like
it is in the Mac.

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Well...                               91-03-27 20:49:27 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...I've been wanting the same thing of late, having recently purchased
a Personal LaserWriter NT, so I started investigating it.

Folks, this stuff is _hard_.  No two ways about it.

First of all, fonts have to be remapped and reencoded once they're
actually in the LaserWriter.  The Adobe character set does not exactly
match the Apple character set and external PostScript fonts must be
reencoded to print correctly.

Second, there has to be a way to map PostScript font names to font
family names.  This is done on the Mac by the FOND resource (font
family description), which contains information not present in any
existing IIgs font.  Not only would the data structures have to be
defined, but some kind of program to add them to existing fonts would
be necessary -- and it would be necessary for every bitmap font you
want to map to a PostScript font.

Third, the PostScript fonts must be accessible when printing, which
requires code to either get the disk online (and a disk-insertion
dialog isn't always easy when the grafProcs are swapped out) or ignore
the PostScript font if the disk isn't online, which can produce
undesirable results.

The _LaserWriter Reference_ contains an obtuse but fairly complete
explanation of all this in Chapter 2 if you want to go to your local
library or bookstore and check it out, but it's not trivial by any
means.  It requires a lot of design work on the part of the LaserWriter
driver (and perhaps for the Font Manager as well).  It would take an
engineer familiar with the printing process quite some time to do.

So now you know.  We did get some of this done for 5.0 - the current
driver can look at fonts that were downloaded by a Mac (since it's done
all the really incredibly hard work since it has the data structures in
place to do it).  This means that if you had a font downloader on the
IIgs, you could get much of the same benefit -- but downloading the
fonts is the part that relies on all the information the IIgs doesn't
have in place.

Maybe someday, but don't think Apple's ignoring you if it doesn't
appear before your next birthday rolls around.  It's just hard.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  New Apple Printers                    91-03-28 21:57:06 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

Apple just release new lost cost bubble jet and laser printers, so
let's see some drivers on the GS. You say Apple only develops drivers
for Apple printers. These are such. You say writeing pint drivers is
easy (for 3rd party developers) So let's see a driver for them (the
Stylewriter and Personal Laserwriter LS) on AO this month.

-Smullen

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Now...                                91-03-28 22:30:15 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...that's the kind of specifics that force the "I can't talk about
unannounced products" response.  Sorry.

Writing third-party drivers is impossible for the two new Apple
printers - we have not yet released the technical specifications for
legal reasons.  When we do release the information, writing drivers
will be easy (kind of -- they both have hardware decompression on the
printer side).  And all the other stuff that was said before -- go back
and read it for more details.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Postcript continued...                91-03-30 14:49:58 EST
From:  RickR31 Posted on: America Online

So, if I understand you (Matt) correctly, the GS can deal with
Postcript fonts as long as they are already in the printer.  So,
theoretically, you'd need a GS font downloader that would be able to
read Mac disks (which would best be a desk accessory), download the
font, and then the printer driver would correctly reference that font. 
Yes?  It sounds like the info you gave in the previous message would be
a long-term solution, but isn't this a short term answer?  It sounds
too simple, so I must be missing something. :)

Thanks.

Rick

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Finder Reader                         91-03-30 22:03:04 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

How about full utilization of the menus of the finder. Click on a text
file and a window with the text appears. Choose Print and the print
dialogue box apears. Finder reader does this, but you have to quit the
finder and then reopen all your windows.

And excuse me for being so direct but, Every thing that Mac system 7.0
will have that is technicly possible on a GS. (Right to the point.)

-Smullen

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Not useful.                           91-03-31 15:03:36 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Everything a Macintosh does is possible on a IIgs, especially with a
68030 coprocessor.  However, the IIgs system is _designed differently_,
and trying to impose their design on top of ours isn't always useful. 
If you absolutely have to have all the Macintosh 7.0 features, your
best bet is still to buy a Mac once 7.0 is released.  For example, we
could do something like Apple Events on the IIgs -- but they won't work
between machines until we have ADSP, which we don't.  And ADSP is not a
short-term checklist item - it's more complicated than that.

Rick:  Yes, theoretically that's true.  The point is that actually
downloading the file is the difficult part.  It's not just sending a
batch of PostScript to the printer - it's reencoding, and interpreting
the LWFN file format, and more.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Other System 6.0 stuff                91-04-21 02:06:03 EST
From:  BCS Al Posted on: America Online

I would like to see something similar to QuickTime in a future version
of the IIgs system software.

QuickTime is an operating system (for the Mac) extension for multimedia
stuff--synch of video and sound, compression of video, standards for
the components of multimedia, etc.

We already have some of these things--MIDI Synth and A.C.E. come to
mind. However, MIDI Synth isn't done (yet) and there seems like more
could be done with graphics (built-in 3200 color support? built-in GIF
support?) and the Video Overlay Card. VCR support (a la VidClip) could
be another thing for this IIgs multimedia toolkit. Laserdisks, too.

I could go on about multimedia support in future Apple IIgs system
software, but you get the idea :-)

Finally, I'd like to see Apple release CloseView and Video Keyboard,
since they've been demoed, but have yet to ship.

Al Willis


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Print Postscript to Disk              91-04-21 20:28:53 EST
From:  Don Aehl Posted on: America Online

I would like to be able to print a Postscript file to disk without
having to have an AppleTalk LaserWriter connected to my Apple IIgs.  I
would like to be able to save a page layout to disk as a postscript
file, copy it over to a Macintosh using AFE and dump it to a
LaserWriter.

I realize that presently you can rename the LaserWriter printer driver
and print a postscript file to disk, b using oa-f, but the font names
are corrupted and A2DTS claims that this a big 'no-no!'

Also I would like to be able to install pre-styled bitmapped fonts on
my IIgs without the system gagging on them.  Under System 5.0.4, if you
install prestyled fonts (say a plain and italic 12 pt Times font) and
you select the "Choose Font" dialog box, in the available font sizes
box you will see 12 listed twice! This seems like a very simple thing
to correct. I hope it is corrected in System 6.0

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  CloseView, et al...                   91-04-22 04:10:48 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Al,

CloseView, Video Keyboard, and Easy Access are all on the developer
(and develop) CD's.  If you need them, get the CD.


Just a thought, Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Another for font downloading          91-04-22 19:25:14 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

The ability to download postscript fonts to a LaserWriter would be
really awesome.  I understand it requires a lot of work, and the time
might be better spent updating other parts of the system, but
downloadable fonts would make GS DTP really powerful, imho.

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Clarification                         91-04-23 21:03:52 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Don, "A2DTS" hasn't said a _single thing_.  _I_ work for DTS and _I've_
said that we don't support the LaserWriter as a direct-connect printer.
 Don't put words in my mouth.  DTS does not have a presence on America
Online -- if you want Apple's official opinion and you're an Apple
Partner, ask AIIDTS or MACDTS through AppleLink or MCI Mail.

If you want to see things that are bugs in the system fixed, I suggest
you mail them to Apple to the attention of "Apple II System Software"
(mail-stop 70-AL) instead of posting them here as if they were
incredibly obvious.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  File Compression...                   91-04-24 01:23:36 EST
From:  Don Aehl Posted on: America Online

Wouldn't it be great if Nufx file compression was integrated with the
Finder?  Similar to Disk Doubler (Macintosh) or Stacker (IBM).

This would allow you to have the finder open a comressed file, run it
and automatically re-shrink it.  Providing a significant savings of
hard disk space.

Wouldn't that be great?!

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Custom Paper Size in IW2 driver       91-04-24 01:25:54 EST
From:  Don Aehl Posted on: America Online

The 4.0 ImageWriter driver allows for a number of alternate paper
sizes.  It would be really usefule to be able to choose new paper sizes
and new top/bottom left/right margin sizes.

Wouldn't that be great?!

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Printer drivers                       91-04-25 22:29:42 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Don, you're not the first to suggest that.  Let me ask you this:

1)  Would it be OK if you could only specify page sizes in certain
increments (say, 1/4" or 1/2 cm)?  The driver has internal information
about the page sizes (more precise than what is displayed) coded and
probably wouldn't be able to handle all possible page sizes.

2)  What kind of user interface do you propose for letting people set
margins and thereby position the rPage rectangle within the rPaper
rectangle?

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  you didn't ask me, but...             91-04-25 22:51:12 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

...the best user interface I can think of for what you described would
be just like the scroll box on Mac HyperCard 2.0 (the one that you use
when the stack is too big for the window/screen---OA-E brings it up). 
That is, you have a representation of the whole page, and then a
rectangle within that showing the 'printable area.'  Using the mouse,
you can grab any corner or side and drag it into position.  For
precision sake, there should be little text boxes which reflect the
actual measurement (in the user's choice of scales such as inches,
picas, etc.).  Those who know what they want off-hand could just type
in the values.  The rest of us "that looks good" types could resize the
box visually.

Just a thought (if I understood you correctly)...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  RE: Printer Drivers                   91-04-29 20:05:19 EST
From:  Don Aehl Posted on: America Online

Matt,

Firstly, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this topic.

I understand that there must be some internal limits on page dimensions
(maintaining byte boundaries and so forth), but I would not be
inconvenienced by a 'minimum increment.' I would, however, prefer 1/8"
rather than 1/4".  Ideally, it would be best if it were also possible
for the rPage rectangle to be equal to the rPaper rectangle.  Is this
possible, or must a margin exist?

If 1/4" is the smallest possible minimum increment (in normal printing
mode) might it not also be possible to have a 1/8" minimum increment
when '50% reduction' is selected?

I prefer to print using '50% Reduced' and 'Condensed' mode
simultaneously for greatest printer resolution.  I have found that AWGS
works well with the current ImageWriter driver to produce good label
printouts.  I use the 4" x 3" Package Label to print 3.5" disk labels. 
I avoid the 3" x 3" Disk Label page size because the magins are much
too large (reducing rPage to an unsatisfactorily small region). 
Atleast with the 4" x 3" label I can ignore the left-right margins and
print across the entire width of the 3" x 3" disk labels.

You see, my greatest need for custom page sizes is encountered when
printing to continuous labels.  I use a variety of Avery labels for
printing pricing stickers, disk labels, mailing labels, and package
labels.  There are many different 'standard' size labels and the
difficulty is that their form lengths are 'non-standard.'  Many of the
form lengths are measured in multiples of 1/8".

This brings up the most important point.  The vertical dimensions of
the label page (the form length as it were) is actually the most
important number.  If the form length (rPaper height) cannot be
suitably adjusted, then it is impossible to use some sizes of lables. 
Some common heights are 1-3/8" or 2-7/8".  If rPaper height cannot
match these dimensions, then the labels obviously can't be used because
they will lose sync with the top of form.

In responce to your second question, I am most familiar with the page
setup dialog from PageMaker 4 on the Mac.  I suggest that something
similar could be done for a new Imagewriter driver.  A 'custom page'
dialog box would simply need two fields for 'FormHeight' and
'FormWidth', then below that four fields for 'LeftMargin',
'RightMargin', 'TopMargin', and 'BottomMargin'.  The first two fields
would establish rPaper and the four margin fields would be used to
define the rPage.  If someone really wanted to get fancy, a little
graphic representing the layout would be nice, but definitely not
necessary.

Enough said?  Aren't you glad I didn't ask for 3-across labels...


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Hey, that'd be neat :)                91-04-29 21:59:16 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

Imagine this:  in the print setup box, there's an option for "pages
across."  It would contain the numbers 1-x to choose how many pages
across to print.  x would equal the max that would fit given the chosen
document width and the printers capabilities.

For example, using 3-across address labels, the program would THINK
that it was printing on each page, but the print driver would position
page 2 to the right of 1, 3 to the right of 2, and then 4,5,6 and so
forth.  It could be transparent to the program making all programs
label compatible.

Sure it's ludicrous---but I'm moving tomorrow and I'm desparately
trying to avoid starting to pack.  I'll run off on any topic I can  :)
:)





Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I'd really like to see...             91-04-30 20:36:14 EST
From:  Scapino Posted on: America Online

a postscript font downloader(to a LaserwriterIINT). Failing that, I'd
like to see the Imagewriter emulator re-writen to make the
LaserwriterIINT act like a real imagewriter, that is, choose better
text, and use the 2x or 3x larger bit map font, and reduce for no
jaggies. Just wishing....... Kurt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Aliasing                              91-05-01 23:23:29 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

Why can't the system 6.0 have alias capability like the new Mac system
(it just may but I'm still gonna ask...) so I can have as many Icons of
a file anywhere I want.... just like MOS 7.0.

And while you're throwing in a few tweaks, how about IAC, TrueType,
TrueImage, the Font Scaler. (:->

Phil

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Apple IIgs Video Keyboard             91-05-02 22:59:05 EST
From:  Omega Man Posted on: America Online

the Video Keyboard can be ordered through APDA, its Item number is
A0028LL/A and it goes for $20, it comes with a 10 page manual and a 3.5
inch disk.

1-800-637-0029

APDA Apple Computer 20525 Mariani Avenue, Mail Stop 33-G Cupertino, CA
95014-6299


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Stuff                                 91-05-03 00:43:04 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Don:  rPaper is the logical paper size in the same coordinates as
rPage, the page size.  rPaper = rPage if and only if you can print on
the entire sheet of paper.  For most printers this is not physically
possible.

The dialog you mention sounds kind of complicated, which I think is one
reason we've never done it.  For my point of view asking people to type
in 6 numbers is not a great way to do it.

Scapino:  the ImageWriter doesn't do those things, the ImageWriter
driver does.  You're asking to use the ImageWriter driver to print
bitmaps to the ImageWriter Emulator on a LaserWriter, which means
changing the network types and all kinds of other stuff that make this
pretty much non-doable (or at least a lot more trouble than it's
worth).

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Matt....                              91-05-03 22:36:08 EST
From:  Scapino Posted on: America Online

You mean you cant get a $3600 ,2 megabyte, 68000 based monster machine
to do the same as a little, stupid, ImagewriterII???? Its kinda silly,
to have to use a paint program, with 48 point fonts, and then a 30%
reduction to get clear, sharp, non-postcript fonts. I would settle for
a postscript font down-loader(hint,hint..). The built in fonts can be
quite limiting, and there isn't a real good reason why I should be
limited to them, other then the fact that Apple wants me to buy a
Mac.....;) Kurt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  ImageWriter Driver...                 91-05-03 23:37:17 EST
From:  Don Aehl Posted on: America Online

Matt,

The important question is: is it possible for rPage to equal rPaper on
the ImageWriter II?  This is not a significant problem if the margins
can be reduced to a minimum of 1/8", though.

Also, I think it would be helpful if you would examine the 'Page
Setup...' dialog from GraphicWriter III (and even PageMaker 4).  I
think you'll find that these interfaces are quite simple and
straightforward.  I'm really unclear as to what might be complicated
about them. I suppose there must be some extensive error trapping to
prevent impossible dimesions for being accepted, but that really
doesn't seem like a significant obstacle.  As far as I understand it,
the dialog would merely consist of 6 LineEdit fields.

Maybe it would help if you could explain in further detail what
obstacle exist to prevent such a custom dialog.

Don Aehl

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  More stuff                            91-05-04 13:34:47 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Scapino:  You're missing the point.  For the most part your printouts
look better on the ImageWriter than the LaserWriter because the
programs you're using send bitmaps instead of QuickDraw commands.  The
LaserWriter can intercept QuickDraw commands and turn them into
PostScript, which is how it works.  For non-PostScript fonts, it
presents resolution no worse than the ImageWriter.

However, if the program sends a giant pixel map, the driver has
absolutely no way to dissect it and figure out what PostScript commands
to use.  It has to print it as a pixel map and that's not going to be
ultra-high resolution.  (This is really obvious in HyperCard IIgs --
text in fields uses PostScript but any paint text is a bitmap and is
printed in lower resolution.)

Don:  Sorry, I don't have either of the programs you mention.

It does seem that you're asking me to prove why something I'm not sure
we wan't to can't be done.  Again, I think a user interface that
requires someone to type in 6 numbers to define a page is not very
friendly.  A more friendly interface would include a picture of a page
with draggable margins, but that would take a good deal of time to
implement.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Print set-up                          91-05-04 22:25:54 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

Matt, with all due respect, shouldn't the user have the ability to
define how the print will be? I have several different Mac program
where the printed "page" can be defined directly from the print menu.
It *IS* complicated but wasn't Apple founded with the idea that the
user should be impowered instead of being dictated to by the "powers
the be".

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Imnagewriter Driver...                91-05-04 23:26:13 EST
From:  Don Aehl Posted on: America Online

Matt,

I agree, a graphic representation of the page layout would be much more
user-friendly.  Still, I think that average user could handle typing in
6 numbers.  PageMaker is the standard in desktop publishing in both
Macintosh and IBM desktop publishing, and that is the way it is
implemented in both versions.

Just think about it, Matt.  That's all I ask.  I think most people
would be overjoyed to have the capability to customize the page size,
and would accept the simple 6 field dialog.

I didn't mean to doubt your judgement, It's just that your previous
response seemed unclear to me.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  How 'bout:                            91-05-05 02:16:33 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

Why don't do it as Bill Heinman did DPI in the ImageWriter II driver of
Harmonie?  Applying/modifying that method to this use, there would be
about 3 preset sizes/margins available; select one from the popup menu
and the LE controls would automatically be set to the margins
coorsponding to the selected preset layout.  If you want to create your
own, just change the LE controls.  I made this sound a bit complex, but
I think this could be a great method :)

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I would still....                     91-05-05 18:17:15 EST
From:  Scapino Posted on: America Online

like the capability to send a huge,Bit map, without any quick draw, if
I so desired. I will not take no for an answer on this. The Imagewriter
II is not capable of the same resolution as the Laserwriter, yet the
Laserwriter cannot print at the same or better resolution?????? The
chunky output on the laserwriter, of bit maps is NOT the same
resolution as Imagewriter. Its MUCH less, in my estimation, at least
HALF. I routinely make bit map images, very large ones, and print them
out to the Laserwriter at 25%, and they are as good as EPS graphics. Is
there a really good reason why, when I print a 12 point bit mapped font
to the Laserwriter, that it couldn't substitute a 48 point bit mapped
font(if available), and do a 25% reduction?????(really 75%). I would
settle for being a bit mapped only mode, with no quick draw, but I want
more fonts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I dont want a
MAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kurt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Kurt...                               91-05-07 19:42:47 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...I have a strange modem that makes me ignore messages with more than
reasonable punctuation.  :)

The LaserWriter does not work that way.  Period.  The ImageWriter
driver works by collecting an entire picture (or pixel map), imaging it
a strip at a time with the highest resolution it can, and sending that
to the printer.

The LaserWriter driver interprets things _as they are drawn to the
printing grafport_ and changes them to PostScript right there.  If the
font is buried as a giant part of the picture, the LaserWriter driver
will not get a chance to change it to PostScript text.  For that
matter, the ImageWriter driver won't get the opportunity to ask for 3X
fonts, either, so it won't come out looking great on either printer.

This is a basic difference in print driver architectures that you need
to understand to understand why it can't work the way you want it to. 
For further reference, see the Print Manager chapter of Toolbox
Reference, as well as IIgs technical notes #34, #35, #93, #97 and the
twenty-page "how printer drivers work" article in _develop_ #4.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I do understand all that...           91-05-07 23:44:50 EST
From:  Scapino Posted on: America Online

Matt. I'm not really asking that the driver work that way. Using huge
bit maps to do this kind of thing isn't the best way anyway. I would
much prefer something along the lines of outline fonts, or even pure
postscript. Whuy not a font-downloader? I tell ya, just as an
experiment, I composed a document(actually a 900 pixel by 900 pixel
Quickie APF picture) in which I used a 48 point font to draw my text. I
then printed it out at 25% and it looked great! Now, instead of
manually having to go through this rig-a-marole, why can't the computer
do this for me??? Why can't the computer look at a page of standard 12
point text, and when asked to print it, grab a huge bit map, pick the
48 point font, place the letters in there prospective places on the bit
map, and print it? You see, I got tons of memory in my GS, and huge bit
maps are no problem. Once again, this is slow and cludgy, and I would
much prefer postscript downloading, or scalable outline fonts, but it
doesn't look like Apple is going to provide these things. I'm just
praying that Vitteses new scalable fonts will do the trick.

Kurt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  System Features                       91-05-09 01:08:33 EST
From:  Lucio C Posted on: America Online

First of all, I would like to thank Matt for giving us the answers that
he has.  Thank you Matt!  I must admit, this more than I expected from
Apple.  Sad, when you consider that I have been a financial supporter
of Apple Computer Inc. since 1979.

I earn my living as a Mac computer consultant for small businesses; but
I prefer to use my IIgs.

My IIgs has 6.25 megs of ram, a 100-meg hard drive, etc. and I just
don't understand why my IIgs can't do some of the standard things that
other computers can (i.e. properly comunicate to a postscript device). 
I mean, if a Mac, P.C. compatible, and a NeXT can do it, why not my
IIgs?

Matt, I appreciate everything that is done to further my enjoyment of
my computer, but I'll tell one thing, if I have to buy another computer
to do some of the things that I want done, well, I'm just going to have
to spring for a NeXT.  And I reccommend you all do the same thing (as
opposed to purchasing a Mac).

Don't get me wrong, support or NO support, I'll keep my IIgs.  I just
won't spend any more money on a company that won't tell me where we are
headed in our relationship.

Lucio C     <-- off of my soapbox, now.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  <sigh>                                91-05-09 19:42:00 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Lucio:  Thanks.  Kind words help, especially in threads like this.

Kurt:  You still don't get it.

The ImageWriter driver DOES DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY AS LONG AS YOU
CREATE THE PICTURE NORMALLY.  If you use QuickDraw calls to draw the
text, then the IW driver will use QD's picture scaling to install 3X or
so fonts and will create excellent output.

IF THE TEXT IS PART OF A BITMAP (i.e., part of a paint program), THIS
CAN'T HAPPEN.

If the text is part of a bitmap it's not drawn with QuickDraw's text
calls, and it doesn't get recorded in a picture as text, and no one can
say "Oh, there's a font in here.  Let's install the bigger font and
scale it down."  It's just a bunch of pixels and there is no algorithm
in the system to analyze an aribtrary pixel map and determine its
components.

If the picture is drawn with any QuickDraw component (rectangle, arcs,
ovals, fonts) the picture scaling mechanism will draw it at the highest
possible resolution (144 dpi on the ImageWriter) and print at that
resolution.  If it's a pixel map, scaling it up only gives you
mathematically fatter pixels which look _exactly the same_ when scaled
back down.

I'm sorry to shout like this, but despite your repeated protestations
it is clear that you do _not_ understand this concept.  Go read my
article in _develop_ #4; I spent a lot of my time (and the editors
time) trying to explain exactly this issue in a clear and presentable
way.  And please stop portraying Apple as the bad guy for not putting
in a feature that's virtually impossible to implement (pixel map and
font analysis).  What you are asking for is no less than optical
character recognition of fonts inside pixel maps, and that's not likely
to become a part of the system any time soon.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  LW & IW2                              91-05-10 13:41:55 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

I think what Kurt was trying to get at is why can't the LW driver act
like an IW2 driver and be able to use bitmapped fonts twice (or more)
the size of the screen font and print them at thus twice the resolution
(or more).  I'm pretty curious myself, just for curiosity; I'm not mad
at Apple in any way :)

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Once again...                         91-05-10 21:03:28 EST
From:  Scapino Posted on: America Online

I stated that I do NOT want the kludgy bit map dumping scheme. Even if
it could be implemented. The current laserwriter driver intercepts
QuickDraw calls, and converts them to equivialnt Postscript language.
The text, in a AWGS document, is drawn with QuickDraw commands. So a
properly written Laserwriter driver can STILL see which character is
where. So fine........ I'll quit bitchn, and now I know definitaly that
the tech types at Apple BELIVE thats its IMPOSIBLE or UNECONOMICAL to
implemnt a full featured Laserwriter driver for the GS. Fine....I'll
ask no more, and spend my money on the talented programers who come
along later, who feel it IS a worthwhile project. Apples attitude is
crystal clear....GS users arn't worth the effort. :(

Kurt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Gee . . .                             91-05-11 03:37:48 EST
From:  BCS Al Posted on: America Online

Kurt, you are NOT getting it. You should go back and re-read Matt's
comments about how the LW driver works.

Apple certainly knows that IIgs owners are worth the effort. Lets not
forget that it took 4 programmers 2.5 years and thousands of lines of
code to bring us HyperCard IIgs.

Albert Willis


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Yes, Kurt...                          91-05-11 12:51:09 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...you're not getting it.  You're asking for something that requires an
almost total redesign of the printing architecture.  You don't
understand the issues involved and this is why you think we're
shrugging you off.  It's like saying "Apple doesn't care about Apple II
owners because they won't modify ProDOS 8 to read HFS disks."  It's
just not possible within the limitations we have to deal with.

Now, in case DYA Jim does correctly have what you're trying to ask,
let's deal with that one:  Why can't the LW driver use 2X or 3X bitmap
fonts when there's no PostScript font available?  (A different question
than extracting a font from the middle of a large pixel map entirely.)

The answer again has to do with immediate vs. deferred printing.  The
IW driver uses "deferred" printing, which means it collects all the
elements of each page in some way (in a QuickDraw picture in this
case).  It then "replays" the picture with a large band to let
QuickDraw image the page at the printer's resolution.

The LW driver uses "immediate" printing -- as something is drawn in the
printing grafport, the LW driver converts it to PostScript and sends it
to the printer, sending the PostScript 'showpage' operator when the
page is closed with PrClosePage.

The problem with the LW driver is that it doesn't have much choice when
it comes to things that have no PostScript equivalents -- like bitmaps
or non-PostScript fonts.  If it was to do the scaling like the IW
driver does, it would suddenly find that some portions of the document
(fonts, pixel maps) had grown not necessarily in the same way that
substituted PostScript fonts or objects had, making page layout
virtually impossible.

Also, the scaling mechanism requires lots of memory for complex
documents, and this method buys you nothing for pixel maps and would
only provide some relief for bitmap fonts if you had the right sizes
already handy -- since the normal stuff is roughly 72 DPI and the
printer is 300 DPI, that means you'd need 4+ X font sizes.  This
increases the memory requirements for the LW driver tremendously, and
since the method doesn't know if you have the right font sizes or not
it takes up a lot more memory to make imaging bands whether or not you
get any better output from it!

This would be almost as difficult to implement as downloadable
PostScript fonts, and I'd rather have that implemented than this.

Hope that answers what you asked.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  A wish....                            91-05-11 23:24:15 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

I wish that WHEN GSOS 6.0 gets here that the technical docs are also
ready for immediate release. Let's not wait 6-12 months before
publishing the manuals for it, OK?

What brings this on is that I have already seen a manual for the Mac
System 7.0 on a bookshelf. This is BEFORE the OS has been released!
Let's have some equal priorities!

(I should clarify that the forementioned book is NOT an offical Apple
release, but an independant publication, which we know wouldn't exist
without much help from Cupertino.....).

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Manuals...                            91-05-12 01:43:49 EST
From:  AFA Gary J Posted on: America Online

GS/OS technical manuals ARE available at the time that new versions of
system software are released, and they're available from Apple.   You
must purchase them through APDA, though, and they are beta drafts, BUT
THEY ARE AVAILABLE.  These beta manuals are also made available to
seeded developers PRIOR to the public release of the system software
(someone has to bug test the stuff, you know).  A few people write
books based on this information.  I don't know for sure, but my guess
would be that the Macintosh side of things works the same way.  A 3rd
party book in the book store isn't unusual for this sort of release,
and the same kind of thing isn't unprecedented in the Apple II world. 
A number of books appeared in bookstores from various authors prior to
the release of the technical manuals for the Apple IIGS.  The first one
I can recall was "Apple IIGS Technical Reference" by Michael Fischer. 
If I remember correctly, this book appeared in the books stores about
the same time the IIGS was announced.

So, nothing is stopping you from joining APDA and purchasing the beta
manuals at the instant the software/hardware products become public. 
Afterall, how is anyone going to write software that takes advantage of
a new product or computer without having some kind of documentation?

Gary


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Thanks, Matt.                         91-05-12 15:00:36 EST
From:  Scapino Posted on: America Online

Your last description was very concise. I also would MUCH prefer a
Postscript font downloader. But one of your earlier posts suggested
that this will never see the light of day, so the ideas I was floating
out were possible alternatives(There always are alternatives!).
Assuming we do not get a Postscript font downloader, I would certainly
settle for a 'special case' print driver, where by, if my original
document was composed entirely of non-laserwriter, bit-mapped
fonts,(and the 4x fonts were available), the driver would function by
creating a huge bit-map in memory, and read the textof the file, and
compose the bit map from that, and in turn print it. Now......tell me,
wouldn't it just be simpler for you guys to do the Postscript font
downloader?? Its one or the other, I'd preffer the latter, but
something MUST be done. There are probable a hundred ways to do it, and
I think having full access to this $3600 hundred dollar monstrosity
would be well worth it. Thanks again for not killing me for my last
post(I was just deppressed from the FOREVER declining situation). But
also keep in mind, this folder is the System 6.0 WISH list, not the
'Tell us what you want, and we will tell you why you can't have it!'
folder. I want full access to the power of my LaserwriterIINT, from my
GS. I'm not interested in why I can't have it. I want it. And I don't
settle for 'can'ts'. Thanks again.

Kurt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Wishing and hoping...                 91-05-12 17:47:26 EST
From:  AFA Gary J Posted on: America Online

Kurt, this folder wasn't started by an Apple employee out looking for
ideas for system 6.0.  It is just as you mentioned, a "wish I had
this..." folder.  But there's a big difference between wishing and
having false hopes.  I don't think it is unreasonable for Matt or any
of the other Apple employees to explain the technical problems in
bringing about a particular wish.  I for one am glad to see the kind of
wishes that are feasable, and the ones that are impossible.   After
all, this is a techical forum for developers, and it's interesting to
work though an idea out in the open like this to understand the
process, and understand the problems that must be overcome.

(Heck, as long as we're wishing, I wish every copy of system software
6.0 would come with a check from Apple in the amount of $100,000, just
because we're loyal and devoted Apple II users :)

Gary


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Is this for real?                     91-05-12 20:44:01 EST
From:  Particle Posted on: America Online

Will 6.0 really be coming?  My wishes are that it would have FST for
Mac and MS-DOS, TrueType fonts, a High density disk driver, stylewriter
driver, and multitasking capabilities.  Maybe some of them will come
true.

Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Not empty...                          91-05-18 11:55:19 EST
From:  MRanes Posted on: America Online

This folder is not empty.  What's the deal?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  My wish...                            91-05-19 12:58:29 EST
From:  AFL Scott Posted on: America Online

I'd like some form of accounting implemented.  That way one can
accurately track activity on a given machine for purposes such as
security, taxes, etc.  Currently GS/OS really has minimal security
features.

Scott

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  PostScript Support                    91-05-23 01:31:54 EST
From:  RRosenberg Posted on: America Online

I've just spotted the SD6 Wish list and DL'ed all 71 messages there.
I've not yet READ them so here are my requests PRIOR to that. I'll then
append any comments AS I read (ie: This is being done Stream of
Consciousness as I read). Here Goes-

I want FULL MAC SYS7 Level PostScript Support (I noted that there are
comments about Font DL Support So I will leave there until I get
there). For right now, I want the LW PrePrep to be updated to MD Level
70 (or whatever level Mac SYS7 is at). A SD5.0.4 system can NO LONGER
PEACEFULLY Co-Exist on an AppleTalk Network with Macs once they go to
SYS6.0.7 with Color PS Support (or TrueType OR SYS7) due to being at
MD68 level while the others are at MD70 (if not Higher). I want support
to READ Fonts off a NTX attached HD _IF ONE EXISTS_. Note: Until I get
to the Font DL comments, I am NOT asking for support to MAINTAIN the HD
(as is done by Mac LaserWriter Utility) or to do DL's. I want check
boxes on the LW Print Window so I can direct the output to disk (like
can NOW be done via holding OA-F while clicking on the OK button). Also
a ADD PREPREP Box and support for OA-K. Note I want the BOXs AND the OA
Support (so the USER can choose his signalling method). Also Envelope
Support (like MAC SYS7 and TT).


****************** Here start my Comments ****************

Matt DTS  (19Mar91) You state that a MS-DOS FST would be useless
without SuperDisk (or PCT)support for the Disks. I assume that MS-DOS
CD-ROMs are created with ISO9600/High Sierra (and thus CURRENTLY
READABLE) and not as MS-DOS HDs (as are Mac and PRODOS/GSOS Format
CD-ROMS which LOOK like SCSI HDs). Correct? Any MS-DOS Formatted
CD-ROMs would read using Only the FST since CD-ROM MEDIA support
already exists.

GS EXPRESS (20Mar91) You say that Forked files would break P8. I agree
that they do AT THE CURRENT time. How hard is it to ADD StorageType5
(ie: Forked/Extended File) Tolerance/Support? Not that Hard I think.
All that is needed is the addition of ONE flag in whatever Control
block is used to support File I/O to show that the file is a
StorageType5. If the Flag is ON, then it just uses the Data Field of
the Fork Index Block instead of the Directory Entry for its Pointer
Fields. You open a File, and it just bumps to the Index Block and opens
the DATA FORK. Allow for Updates to the Data Fork, and Deletes of ST5
files. As to Copies (with the resultant need to CREATE the file,
PROSEL-8 does not seem to have THAT MUCH trouble if I remember) so it
should not be hard to ADD it to System.Utilities.

RickR31 (26Mar91) So long as you have Screen Fonts with the CORRECT
internal Names, you WILL use the PostScript Fonts that are in the
Printers ROM. All 11 Font Families EXIST already as Screen Fonts (watch
out for NewCenturySchool Book However - there are some sets around with
INCORRECT internal Names). If you have GWIII, I think it COMES with all
11 Families with GOOD names (check the Font Libs here for them). If you
order the Disk issues V2N2 and V2N3 of GS+, you will GET the Complete
Set (I sent them the ones that they were missing and they were on the
V2N3 Disks). There are ALSO available a disk with the Adobe Mac Screen
Fonts (all 35 Families in 5 sizes) so you can get ON THE SCREEN correct
Italic/Bold/Bold-Italic Characters AND will print with CORRECT Metrics
(the GSOS "Styling" creates letters that are WIDER than those that are
in the ROM and thus the lines are wider than they should be).

Matt DTS  (27Mar91) You state that there must be a way to Map the
Screen Font to the PostScript Font (by name). The PostScript font name
IS IN the Screen Font Header AND the Driver will handle any
Italic/Bold/Bold-Italic Name Changes if the Screen Font is NOT Fully
Styled (ie: Is "ROMAN") - Check the LaserWriter TechNote for Details. I
have had NO problems using my LW NTX with all 11 Families (it is now
even better since I got the 35Font "Styled" set [mentioned above]).


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  PostScript Support (Part2)            91-05-23 01:49:11 EST
From:  RRosenberg Posted on: America Online

The following was intended to be part of my prior message but I
exceeded the AoL buffer.


Final Comments - I STILL have not seen ANY explanation of what the big
deal is about supporting Downloadable Fonts. You HAVE working code on
the Mac and the OFFLINE LW Utility. Use the design specs to create
support in the GS. The ONLY comment that is even VAGUELY relevant is
the question of Mapping the Screen Font to the PostScript Font (ie: the
POST Resource linkage from the FOND). There are TWO SIMPLE solutions to
this. First, just use the FONT NAME MINUS the SIZE to locate the Font
(ie: Look for TIMES with a FileType of $C8 and an AUXTYPE of $0719 [THE
OFFICIAL AUXTYPE for POSTSCRIPT DOCUMENTS under SRC]). Second, if you
want to get REAL Fancy, why not look stuff the info into FONT.LIST (and
have a Resource on each POST Font that shows the FONT NUMBER of the
Screen Fonts Family you are mapping)?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  How Ironic...                         91-05-23 20:24:13 EST
From:  Don Aehl Posted on: America Online

RRosenberg,

If you are referring to the 'Postscript Font Equivalents' file that was
uploaded to the APR forum on Feb 17, I already know about it. You see,
*I* am the one who translated those fonts to the correct Apple IIgs
format, 'harmonized' the fonts, and then uploaded them with the AWGS
and TeachText samples. They do work well.  *IF* you have a laserwriter
connected to your IIgs and *IF* it is connected via AppleTalk.  I, on
the other hand, do not have such access.  Like many others, I have
renamed the LaserWriter printer driver and print my files to disk as a
Postscript file.  The LaserWriter driver, however, will not correctly
match up the fonts.  Times, Courier, and Helvetica will substitute all
the rest. This is the problem I would like to have corrected.  Also,
System 5.0.4 does not correctly handle 'harmonized' (pre-styled) fonts.
 They confuse the 'Choose Font...' dialog.

*SPECIAL NOTE*

By the way, I have received no response *whatsoever* from anyone who
has downloaded those 'postscript font' bitmaps.  You see, I also
'created' much larger IIgs versions of all the 35 font families. 
Including, point sizes of 28, 36, 42, 48, 54, 56, 72 and 96. I was
considering uploading them, but there doesn't seem to be any demand. 
The fonts files get quite HUGE at those point sizes (as large as 64K
per font) and would take quite a while to upload.

If anyone is interested, email me...

Don Aehl

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  MS-DOS CD's                           91-05-23 21:14:54 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

IBM (ISO9600/High Sierra) CD's ALREADY work just fine.  It's great :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Robert...                             91-05-25 14:30:51 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...you're off in the weeds.  You posted the same things on GEnie, so my
response won't be as detailed as it is there.

MD68 vs. MD70 -- totally irrelevant and I can't figure out why you
don't understand this.  Both the Mac 7.0+ drivers and the IIgs System
Software 3.2+ drivers send their LaserPrep dictionary with each job so
there are no more laser wars.  Even before the Mac started doing this,
the IIgs did.  If you're using any LaserWriter driver written in the
past three years, it's fully compatible with any Mac driver on the
network no matter _what_ version it is.  If it doesn't work for you,
something else is messing your printer up.  It's not the driver.

MS-DOS FST:  You're stretching my words just a bit, but not much.  What
I said was that it does no good to have an MS-DOS FST without a way to
read MFM disks, such as SuperDrive or a GS/OS driver for the PC
Transporter.  I think Apple's unlikely to release such an FST until
there's a way to read the disks without requiring a third-party
hardware product.

LaserWriter font mapping:  I'm not going to start this all over again. 
The problem is that unless the PostScript font name follows the
conventions in IIgs TN #67 (and many of them don't), the LaserWriter
driver won't find the PostScript font in the printer.

The PostScript font name is NOT included in the screen font and never
has been, your statement to the contrary.  To properly download
PostScript fonts, there must be some way to map PostScript font files
to screen fonts, and although such a method could be created, it
doesn't currently exist and would require modification in some way of
all screen fonts you want to map to PostScript fonts.  There is a LONG
thread about this somewhere in ADV if you'd like more details.

ProDOS 8 and forked files:  The concept of just using the data forks is
pretty simple.  If you can write 6502 code that can translate a forked
file into a regular file so the normal P8 code could read the file, I'd
like to have it.  Remember that it can't be more than about 18 bytes
long because that's all the free memory left in ProDOS 8, and that's
scattered throughout the kernel.

Kurt:  There's no way for the LW driver to know ahead of time whether
all the fonts will have PostScript equivalents.  That's mainly why.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  HCGS and 6.0                          91-05-26 02:24:08 EST
From:  Particle Posted on: America Online

Would this new software accompany a update to HyperCard GS like what
happened with system 7.0 on the Mac?  I would like to see some of the
features of system 7.0 put into gs system 6.0 like "Publish and
Subscribe" and TrueType fonts.  Is system 6.0 really going to happen? 
Is this all rumors?

Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Well...                               91-05-26 11:42:01 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...some things in Macintosh System 7.0 are quite reasonable for the
IIgs platform, others would require building blocks we don't have yet.

Both Apple Events(tm, they make me do that) and the Edition Manager
(Publish/Subscribe) are eventually built on the AppleTalk protocol
ADSP, which we don't have on the Apple II.  (Edition Manager is built
on the PPC toolbox above ADSP to boot.)  We can't have those things
without ADSP.

As for TrueType(tm again), it's eminently possible, but quite hard. 
TrueType's font rendering mechanism is similar to PostScript's, so you
can imagine the difficulty involved in building a PostScript font
interpreter into the Font Manager.  (Remember that Apple licenses
PostScript from Adobe for our laser printers -- we don't have any
PostScript interpreter source floating around.)

Anyway, the TrueType font specification is rather complicated and
involves a lot of floating-point math...a scaler can be created (it
would create a bitmap font from the TrueType font when you requested
that size), but it would probably be pretty slow (maybe 30 seconds to
install a font?).

I'm not saying these things _won't_ happen -- I'm just saying that
they're more difficult than some people might think.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Starlight, Starbright...              91-05-27 20:28:18 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

My wish is (and I KNOW it's too late for this one) to have a working
RESET under GSOS. I find it extremely irritating to have to reboot when
a program hangs. On this subject, at least, let's make GSOS different
from the Mac OS, PLEASE.

A working reset would also help development on the GS.

Thanks.

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Reset?                                91-05-28 01:29:25 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

Since I have a hardware debugging card installed, having reset reboot
is no big deal.  If I something gets hung, I press the button on the
card, enter the command list for the GSOS quit call and execute it.. 
Back to ProSel I go...

Andy..

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Reset                                 91-05-29 01:02:07 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

Yes, having a debugging card will do nicely. But the fact is that the
lack of a decent reset in GSOS should not require you to buy fancy
hardware to do a job the system software should be doing in the first
place.

I really see this lack of reset being a thorn in the side of GSOS just
as the ProDOS quit code was to ProDOS. It makes everything else look
Mickey Mouse (c) (r) no matter how good the rest of the system is. At
least the Mac comes up with an alert box with choices (usually).

Oh... if this truly offends, please explain WHY it can't be done, and
please don't say "this has been discussed before", because it hasn't.
(feeling rather aggressive at this moment......)

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Actually....                          91-05-29 02:06:00 EST
From:  AFA Gary J Posted on: America Online

It has been discussed before.  I may have it archived somewhere... (I
recall heavy discussion on this when System Disk 4.0 came out, Mike
Westerfield was one of those speaking out for having some sort of reset
recovery available.  An explanation was given by the Apple types, and
it was rather complicated from what I recall.  I wish I could recall
specifics).

I do believe that recovery of all system functions from a hardware
reset could be very complex and risky.  What other computer systems can
do this?  I can't think of any that try to do such a thing.

Gary


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  you can try...                        91-05-29 22:04:06 EST
From:  AFA Parik Posted on: America Online

There isn't anything stopping you from trying to implement a reset
function yourself.  After all, if you setup $00/03F4 (I think thats
it), and set the checksum byte correctly, you can make your own
reset-handler that would (for example) quit to a specified program.

The problems:

[a] You need to reset all the tools. [b] What if reset during
interrupt?  Disk I/O?  etc, etc.  You need to initialize *everything*,
and hope something didn't go wrong. [c] You can't obviously restart the
program currently running, without the current program knowing its
supposed to be restarted.  That means you need to quit to another
program (ie, FINDER).  But what about the program that was running? 
You need to close its files, remove it fram RAM.   There are many other
things the program could have been doing, and you need to think about
all of them. [d] you need to reset all system variables, and possibly
vectors as well (busy flag and so on).

There are many other problems as well you can imagine.  But the
capability is there, and you can exploit it in your own application if
you so desire (it would be a good idea to temporarily "touch" the
reset-vector during disk I/O, interrupts, etc).  Also remember that the
reset routine will jump in inside bank $00, so you'll probably have a
little 4 byte "JSL $xx/xxxx" inside a small handle located in bank $00.

Gary: some IBM os's allow resets.  For example, under Desqview
Ctrl-Alt-Del is trapped and closes the current window.  In OS/2 v2.0,
you can even crash one application and keep working in another without
worrying about having to reboot.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Reset again                           91-05-29 22:55:22 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

OK... the reset under ProDOS 8 works, with certain programs, to resume
running under conditions previous to "hanging". This is because ProDOS
8 can handle it and because it doesn't use toolsets for program
support. Understood.

But, GSOS is very similar (at least outputwise) to the Mac OS, and the
Mac OS DOES allow certain options upon system crashes and whatnot. Why
can't GSOS at least have the same options as the Mac?

It seems to me that one of the primary objectives of the OS would be
the supporting of hardware resets. It seems this was overlooked or
deemed not important when the OS was being developed. There should, at
least, be a primative reset trap in GSOS. Rebooting gets real old.

Just a wish. It's not really worth arguing about since I don't know all
the details of the machine. But from a distance, it looks like the OS
should be able to handle it. After all, the system already takes over
700K, what's another 20-60K for the reset trap?

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  ProDOS 8                              91-05-30 17:29:27 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

When I upgraded P8 to v1.9, all the P8 programs that used to handle
resets now either hang or reboot when reset is pressed.  Odd.

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Voting                                91-05-31 02:42:46 EST
From:  Stiramatic Posted on: America Online

I'm one person who would dearly like to see the GS multitask.  But that
is not my point.  I'd never thought of handling resets being that
important but if I'm running four applications and one of them crashes
I would be very dissapointed if I had to reboot ALL of the programs
over again.  I would EXPECT it to at least jump back to the finder and
allow me to continue work in the three other programs that didn't
crash.  Even better would be to return the program that locked up to
the state it was in just before it did so. (but I know that would be
even more difficult.)

Stir.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Wow... Memory Protection              91-06-01 12:55:49 EST
From:  A2Evanglst Posted on: America Online

What a concept... that is what the Mac people are still clammering for.

As for Multitasking on the IIgs (multifinder IIgs or something similar)
I would think that Most programs out there would have to be rewritten
to handle it.  Just like when the Mac recieved Mulitfinder there were
programs that had to be rewritten.

-J

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Reset on a Mac                        91-06-01 13:45:57 EST
From:  MattG Posted on: America Online

is not really a Reset but rather an IRQ for which there are many levels
on the Mac side.  In the 65xxx we have tow.  NMI and IRQ.  The Reset
approach is the wrong one to take.  I won't go into why, it just is. 
To do what you are asking would be an IRQ other than the normal IRQ. 
Something that could not be masked but is not the same as an NMI.

Matt Gulick


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Another wish for 6.0                  91-06-01 16:00:25 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

How about a miscellenous tools toolcall that would automatically
install the ROM development CDAs?  Sure, you can easily write yourself
an init that would work for NOW, but you'd either have to hardcode the
locations of where the CDA headers are in ROM01 and ROM03 or hardcode
the location of the routine the monitor in rom01 and rom03 jumps to
when you type "#".  I propose the toolcall to get around having to
hardcode any rom-specific addresses..

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  #                                     91-06-01 17:19:53 EST
From:  JWankerl Posted on: America Online

Yes!  A toolcall to add those things would be terrific!  Great idea,
Jim!

-Josef Wankerl Technical Editor GS+ Magazine

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Reset                                 91-06-02 14:14:46 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Gary's right -- this was discussed at some length when GS/OS was first
released (September 1988), because GS/OS makes it virtually impossible
to trap the reset vector.

Why?  Because GS/OS is a complex operating system with a possibly dirty
cache and volatile open file information in memory.  When you press
Reset, which is a type of non-maskable interrupt that GS/OS can't
protect against.

There is no way, no how, that GS/OS can guarantee operating system or
media integrity once Reset has been pressed.  It's a coin-flip -- if
you were in the middle of an OS call that had not yet updated the cache
properly, for the main example, the cache will be corrupted no matter
how carefully the RESET routine handles itself.  There is no way to
return from a RESET to where you were originally executing (since it's
not an NMI or an IRQ, no return address is saved), so you're basically
toast.

People have used the RESET key as a non-maskable "I want your
attention" key since 1977 because it was trappable.  This is one of the
things that has always limited 8-bit operating systems like ProDOS 8 as
far as disk caches are concerned.  The processor doesn't treat it as "I
want your attention," it treats it as "Wait!  Reset! Start over!"  Even
if you patch in where the ROM jumps, the state of things when RESET was
pressed is already lost forever.

The GS/OS team knew this and decided (correctly, IMHO) that preserving
disk integrity was more important than keeping a non-maskable interrupt
key of somewhat questionable value.

If you really want the "attention" key, Andy has the right answer --
you need a hardware product that asserts a true NMI, although if you
execute in emulation mode outside bank zero, you'll never be able to
return from the NMI (see Apple IIgs Technical Note #1).  RESET is not
an NMI.  The only way we can give you guys a RESET "attention" key like
that without unreasonable risk is to remove a lot of GS/OS's
cache-related features, and I don't think that's what you want.

(The Mac is a different story -- it has several levels of interrupts
and non-maskable interrupts, the latter of which is what happens when
you press the Programmer's Switch.)

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Thanks Matt.                          91-06-02 23:06:53 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

I'll accept your explanation without questions. I didn't realize that
the Mac (the 68000 chip set actually) had a multi-layer reset. The GS
and Mac are becoming so close in programming and system-wise I figured
there HAD to be a reason the GS's reset routine was *SO* different.

The concept is now clear.

Thank you.

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Whoa!                                 91-06-04 01:19:53 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

A polite thank-you!  Maybe I'd better be sure I'm really on AOL like I
thought I was...<ducking>

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  About reset...                        91-06-08 05:59:04 EST
From:  GSGM Posted on: America Online

Great explaination!!

This may be a dumb question but..

When someone does an OA-Cntl-Reset does this automaticly invalidate the
startup byte?

Thus when GS/OS restarts will it reload in the HIGHEST memory available
overwriting old programs/data or the highest FREE memory available?

GSGM


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  On a reboot...                        91-06-09 18:14:44 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...the Memory Manager discards all handles that don't have $00xx user
IDs (like the RAM disk).  The RAM disk is allocated before anything is
loaded, so it's the same effect.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Palatino                              91-06-09 18:25:11 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Well, I've done some research into the problem several people have
reported (LW driver returning "Palatino" instead of "Palatino-Roman"
for the PostScript font name), and I can't make it happen.  So...

1)  Will one of you who've had this problem kindly send me both the
PostScript file and the document that created it?  And...

2)  Be sure to detail your exact printer setup (maker, and the maker of
the PostScript interpreter in it if you know.  I'm specifically
interested in non-Adobe PostScript interpreters).

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  RE: Palatino                          91-06-09 19:43:43 EST
From:  Don Aehl Posted on: America Online

Matt,

The problem occurs only when the postscript file is printed to disk
using a 'renamed' LaserWriter driver to support direct-connect
printing.  From everyone else I've talked to, the problem does not
occur when using the normal LaserWriter driver with AppleTalk.

Those of us with Vulcan internal hard drives must sacrifice a slot in
order to use AppleTalk. In most cases, this is unacceptable. 
Therefore, even with the inconvenience that the 'Palatino problem'
causes, it is better than not being able to print a Postscript file to
disk at all.

Their are a couple SED scripts available which will correct the problem
by replacing the incorrect fontnames (but they of course require some
type of shell in order to run).

Don Aehl

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  ReBoot with lower case "e"            91-06-11 06:43:55 EST
From:  GSGM Posted on: America Online

Often times when I reboot I have noticed a lower case "e" in the bottom
right corner of the Apple // GS text screen. Usually right after the
system has crashed.

Is this put there by GS/OS to indicate an "e"rror?

Whatever it means, I usually have to try and reboot a couple of times
for GS/OS to restart. Or turn off the GS for apx 2-5 mins then reboot.

I have already checked for viruses none were found.

Any thoughts? GSGM


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Rebooting                             91-06-11 14:33:12 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

You probably don't need to turn the power off to reboot.

Instead of OA-CTRL-Reset, do an OA-Option-CTRL-Reset, let the test run
about 10 seconds, then press CTRL-Reset.

The self test clears everything, and restarts the system completely.  I
use it all the time...

Andy...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  PowerOn Anamolies..                   91-06-11 17:36:37 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

Often the first time I turn on my computer after not using it for a few
hours I hear a high pitched beep for about a second, and then the
normal GS beep.  Upon further reboots this high pitched beep preceding
the normal GS beep is not present.  Also, usually if I turn off the
computer and then back on after a few minutes it isn't there either -
just after turning on the GS when it hasn't been used for at least a
few hours.  Strange or what?  Everything else is A-OK, but I've had
this beep anamoly for months now..

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  addendum                              91-06-12 13:39:29 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

The extra hi beep occurs more often than I thought in my last message. 
IE: if I turn off the GS and then turn it back on, the extraneous beep
still occurs.

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  High beep and "e"                     91-06-12 21:26:02 EST
From:  Spaz Posted on: America Online

I also have the "e". Also, the High Beep may just be from the inital
power surge going thru the computer. Spaz


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  "e"                                   91-06-13 17:22:58 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

I don't have the e, but I think it showed up once (can't remember what
I did to make it appear but I do recall doing something strange to the
computer before then).  Interesting theory on the hi beep.  Any other
ideas?

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  MAC 7.0-->GS/0S OVER APPLETALK        91-06-14 23:40:16 EST
From:  Launcher Posted on: America Online

I've got my Se 30 talking nicely to my gs rom o1 machine on local talk
and sharing an IWII.  The GS can import everything from the mac but not
vice versa.  will I be able to boot from a 7.0 mac in the future p8 and
prodos boot blocks?  Curse the stylewriter isn't aplletalk compat.



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  No booting allowed...  :-)            91-06-14 23:49:21 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

File Sharing is NOT a full-blown server, it's a condensed version
intended for sharing FILES, not being a full server.  As such, you can
NOT boot a GS from the shared volume.  Can't boot a //e either...


Don't shoot me, I didn't design it, Tim S.

(my opinions are mine)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Hey!  Topic alert!                    91-06-15 13:38:03 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

(I'm an AFC here, I might as well earn my keep.  <grin>)  This is the
"GS/OS 6.0 wish list" topic.  If you guys are having hardware problems,
I suggest you ask someone in the Apple II Hardware Forum where someone
might know the answer.

Don:  OK, that makes more sense.  Now I have a response when someone
claims the LaserWriter driver is broken because it doesn't so something
it's not tested to do.

All:  The lower-case "e" is put there by the splash-screen ("Welcome to
GS/OS") code when you boot.  GS/OS tests a location within the splash
screen box and that "e" on the 40-column text screen.  When either one
changes, it assumes an application has done something and shuts down
the splash screen.  It's perfectly normal.  You'll only see it if
someone turns on the text screen without clearing it.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Printer buffering?                    91-06-15 14:47:31 EST
From:  Particle Posted on: America Online

Could there be printer buffering?  I would really love this feature. 
What about interapplication communication?  Will AE's HD 3.5 drive work
with the superdrive driver?

Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Stylewriter and Appletalk             91-07-05 23:37:25 EST
From:  A2Evanglst Posted on: America Online

Gads.... A very slow printer on a very slow network


<evil Grin>



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Some 6.0 features                     91-07-23 19:56:56 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

There will be a form of inter-process communication, although it won't
work between two different machines, only processes on the same machine
(DAs, inits, CDevs, applications, etc.).

There will be a limited feature StyleWriter driver as well (no
landscape mode, only vertical condensed, only two resolutions). 
StyleWriter still doesn't print over the network.

If you use the built-in serial ports for printing, you can already get
some print buffering by enabling this option in the Control Panel. 
Some utilities allow you to increase the default 2K buffer size
dramatically.

--Matt


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Gee Matt...                           91-07-26 02:34:40 EST
From:  BCS Al Posted on: America Online

it's great that you are talking about System 6.0 stuff!

Can you also talk about the HFS FST? Like, how will it handle the Mac's
Desktop file? Will we be able to run GS applications from the HFS
partition of a hard drive? Of course, this means ProDOS and HFS
partitions on the same hard drive--doesn't it?

Thanks alot.

Al Willis




Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  HFS FTSs                              91-07-26 18:37:22 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

The way I Apple explained it, I think you can drag a GS/OS file onto a
Mac hard drive (or any other type of drive) and launch it.  That sounds
great.  I'm not sure how the Mac would show it in its finder though...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  HFS FST speed                         91-07-28 14:57:41 EST
From:  AFA Parik Posted on: America Online

Since a lot of people are interested in re-formatting their HDs for use
with the HFS-FST, I was curious if anyone if anyone saw any
degradations in speed when accessing HFS formatted drives?

Also, is it really practical to keep your data on a HFS partition?  I
would love to be able to use 31 characters (and spaces!  :-) in
filenames, but unfortunately, most of the programs I use don't bother
going through the tedious process of getting a handle to a pathname and
decoding the pathname.  In fact, many simply use ProDOS-16 (vs GS/OS)
calls.  What will happen to those apps?  THey just won't "see" the HFS
files?

If there is anyone who's using the AppleShare FST, it would be
interesting to hear your experiences...


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  speed                                 91-07-28 17:40:39 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

Unfortunately there were no HFS formatted HD's in Apple's debugging
lab, and nobody brought any HFS disks to test out.  However, several of
the Apple engineers mentioned that HFS is slower than GS/OS because of
the way it is set up (having to search thru the B-trees very often, I
believe, was one of the reasons).  I asked someone (I think it was Andy
Nicholas) if people would see a noticable difference in speed, and he
said he thought they would..

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  LineEdit extensions                   91-07-28 17:43:39 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

I hope it's not too late to get features added to 6.0.. if it is, then
ahh well, maybe we should rename this folder System 6.1 wish list :)

I would like to see a LEGetText and LESetText that have all the power
of the TEGetText and TESetText calls (i.e. loading/saving text as
C1InputStrings, getting the text and saving it directly to a resource,
etc).  I was going to use a LE control instead of a one line TE control
in a program I'm writing, but because of the powerless LEGet/SetText
calls, I'm considering making it into a one line TE control instead.

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  AppleShare files                      91-07-28 23:08:04 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

I have my Mac IIci, GS and Laserwriter netted. I use AppleShare to
transfer programs from the GS (Mac files I download to the GS) to the
Mac. I also do a small amount of "reverse" transfers.

The characters of files which ProDos cannot handle are replaced by
periods. If the filename is longer than 15 characters then the name is
truncated at 15.

Now, there is a occasional thing that also happens between the
HFS/Prodos names: question marks. There *must* be some sort of
characters which the Mac uses that Prodos *CANNOT* process. In these
case(s) the filename will come up with question marks in place of
characters. I do not understand this, but I am guessing that these
particular files have spaces in front of the files names (since Prodos
filenames can't start with a period).

I have yet to hit any sort of limit on "pathname" size. I usually keep
the volume/directory names short and keep the directory level fairly
shallow (I love talking about Mac DIRECTORIES.... ;-) ).

Hidden files will also show on the GS which don't on the Mac. I have
found several GS disk utilties which will work directly on the Mac HD
(Disk Access is probably the best. I wish Prosel was AppleShare aware)
over the net. I just wish I could use a "ResEdit" type program on the
GS that could edit filetypes on the Mac HD (a disk zapper would also be
neat).

Although the Mac is used for other purposes it's fun making the Mac a
GS slave.


Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Phil's question marks...              91-07-29 03:13:09 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Phil,


The question marks you're seeing are "weird" characters (option-chars)
that aren't in the GS's system font (Shaston), but are in the Mac's
System font (Chicago).  Look at those characters on a Mac and you'll
probably see something like an accented character (option-e, then the
character to be accented) or some other "less than normal" character.

Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Waitaminnit...                        91-07-31 03:11:08 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...we're mixing file systems and oranges here.  Let's step back a bit.

AppleShare:  How you get AppleShare stuff depends on how you're
accessing AppleShare.  When you use ProDOS 8, PFI (the ProDOS Filing
Interface, a high-level AppleTalk protocol that handles file-level
server communication on the Apple II) "synthesizes" directories -- when
you open and read a directory file, it returns something that looks
like a ProDOS directory, even though AppleShare has no such thing. 
(Without this capability, no one could read AppleShare directories
under P8.)  In this case, when the file has illegal ProDOS characters,
they're all returned as "?" and the file is unusable (unless you use
the special AppleShare command to set long naming, which allows any
AppleShare-legal file name that's less than 15 characters long, but
that's another story).

When you catalog under GS/OS, you go through the AppleShare FST, which
communicates with PFI in its own way.  _ABSOLUTELY NO_ file name
translation is done by the AppleShare FST -- what its got is what you
get.  If the application can't deal with the file name, you'll get
unexpected results depending on what wrong thing the app is doing.

All this is unrelated to an HFS FST except in a few minor ways:

1)  Utilities (like Prosel) which read directories with block access
are totally useless with any file system other than ProDOS and have
always been so.  Those of us with access to High Sierra, ISO 9660 and
AppleShare have known this for years, and the situation does not
improve with DOS 3.3, Pascal and HFS.  Hopefully authors like Glen
who've known _how_ to fix this for over three years and have just never
bothered (in spite of _frequent_ updates) will finally take this as a
compelling reason.

2)  HFS's binary trees are slower for cataloging (ProDOS directories
are fairly simple linked lists), but since they're searchable quickly
(as opposed to enumerable), opening files and reading data can be
pretty quick.

3)  The AppleShare FST and the HFS FST map the HFS-type "invisible" bit
to the access bit for invisibility under ProDOS 8 (for AppleShare) or
GS/OS (for both).  If your application shows invisible files anyway,
it's because it's not generally respecting the invisibility bit.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Interesting...                        91-07-31 20:36:35 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

The Finder on the GS shows some of invisible System 7 files from a file
server. Is that a problem with the Sys 5 Finder?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Of file systems and oranges           91-08-01 01:33:44 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

I believe the context in question here (at least the one I was
referring to) is the Finder's view of file names that contain "inverted
question marks".  Since the GS Finder (5.0.4) shows the little "tm"
symbol, the curly "f" (option-f), the diamond, and lots of other
"non-ProDOS" characters, it clearly goes into that "other situation" of
supporting long names.

And yet, some files still show up with inverted question marks (the
"???Move&Rename" folder is a good example.  Using ResEdit, I copied the
three characters from that file's name (they show up as inverted
question marks on the Mac as well) into a word processor and changed
their font until I found one that had those characters defined. 
They're all three different characters (according to Chicago 14) and
you'd recognize them if you saw them.

Which brings me back to my original claim - that the inverted question
marks seen in a file's name in the Finder are simply characters that
aren't defined in Shaston 8...

If I'm wrong, please correct me.  But, personal investigation of a real
sample of the characters in question leads me to believe my explanation
is solid...  :-)

Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Shaston 8 Patch                       91-08-01 20:50:23 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

So wouldn't it just be a simple task of editing Shaston 8 in an icon
editor to have the symbols the Mac uses?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Nope....                              91-08-01 21:59:28 EST
From:  Surak TFF Posted on: America Online

You can't edit Shaston 8 with an icon editor... A font editor, maybe,
but it would still be a pain...... Second, you'd also have to edit
"FastFont", which the Finder uses for most of its displays, and I don't
think it's "legal" to edit that file....

A solution is to change the system font (I believe there's an NDA that
does this) to a Chicago font small enough to fit in the menu bar and be
used as the System font... It'd certainly be interesting looking... :)

Dan

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Smullen                               91-08-01 22:33:59 EST
From:  GS Express Posted on: America Online

Editing Shaston 8 with a font editor is one thing. However, since
Shaston 8 is the ROM font on the GS, saving your changes could be a bit
difficult  :)


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Actually, it's very difficult         91-08-02 17:21:48 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

You can't even load it into an editor, I don't think.  All the editors
I've seen ask you to load a font to edit off disk, not out of memory,
so you couldn't even load it in.  And in memory, it is not stored in
the standard disk font format, so you'd have a little difficulty
dumping it to disk..

<<jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  way 'round that...                    91-08-03 00:50:56 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

might be to pull the ROM, read it into some sort of machine, find the
"font code" and pull it out as a file, modify it and blow a new
ROM..... (I know.....)

WARNING! If you do this the Apple Code Police (ACP) will find you and
make you watch Pepsi ads for 24 hours straight.

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  actually                              91-08-03 13:39:34 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

If you had the patience you could disassemble enough of the ROMs to
find out where the font bitmap was located in ROM, then dump it to disk
and hack out a font header and stuff for it..  I believe FTA has done
this, fyi.

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Shasta 8                              91-08-04 22:41:04 EST
From:  RRosenberg Posted on: America Online

The simplest way to get a copy of Shasta 8 is to just use the Shasta 16
font and downsize it to 8. The REAL question is which font file the
Font Manager will use (Shasta 8 from ROM, Shasta 8 from */SYSTEM/FONTS,
or FAST.FONT [the pre-converted version]).



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Or...                                 91-08-05 19:21:15 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

if you wanted the exact shaston 8 you could print every letter to in a
paint program, save the screen, and then go into some font conversion
utility that would allow you do change a screen into a font and do it
this way.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  "Conversion utility"                  91-08-05 19:41:09 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

The trouble is, Derek, no such utility exists on the GS, at least to my
knowledge.  (I was considering writing one awhile back, but I ran out
of free time)

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Fact or Fiction                       91-08-05 23:14:45 EST
From:  BRENTON Posted on: America Online

Hee Hee! Is Gs/Os 6.0 a reality? Apple is really working on it? Is it
just a wish?

Sorry, but I havn't been paying much attention to this folder.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  It's Real!!!                          91-08-06 19:44:18 EST
From:  AFL GaryJ Posted on: America Online

System Software 6.0 IS a reality, and will be released (according to
Apple) in "late fall" of this year!  :)

Gary


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Or...                                 91-08-08 01:35:14 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...you could call "GetRomFont" which gives you all the information you
need to build a Font Manager-style font record for the ROM font, and
always has.  Do you guys forget this is the developer's forum
sometimes?

Tim:  In your specific case, you're right -- but others had generalized
for you into "any non-ProDOS character is returned as an inverse
question mark."  That's not the case, and you didn't say it was.  It
just got mangled that way.

(BTW, I think the three characters at the beginning are significant for
their hex value, not their character representation.)

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  More SFO wishes..                     91-08-08 22:14:37 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

Ok, I've got more :)

Say you have the following files, all selectable, in sequence, with no
disabled items inbetween:

Text TGE Tones Tums

(creative names, eh? :)  currently, if you hit "t", "Text" is
automatically selected.  if you hit "t" again, it just reselects
"Text".  Well, how bout if each time you hit "t" it cycles through all
the selectable "t=" files?  (i.e. first time you hit it, Text is
hilighted, second time: tge, third: tones, forth: tums, fifth: Text,
and so on)  This makes selecting filenames with the keyboard a LOT
easier, IMO.

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Prefix Settings                       91-08-08 23:51:29 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

Oddly enough, I've never heard of that feature before!  I must admit it
sounds quite cool.  I'm gonna have to try it out next.  (I hope it's in
System 5.0.4! :)  If I knew about prefix settings, I would never have
posted the last message :)

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  alas                                  91-08-09 00:03:53 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

I've never heard of it before, as it's not present in 5.0.4..  Oh well,
just another thing to increase the desire for 6.0 :)

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Selecting next file                   91-08-10 02:30:09 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

Why should you need to hit the same character more than once? Since SFO
alphabetizes the files, a simple down-arrow would do it...

Andy...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  you don't _need_ to                   91-08-10 14:13:13 EST
From:  Jimig Posted on: America Online

hit the alpha key more than once,  but it is 'handy'.  Your finger is
already on the key,  one less thing to think about.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  6.0 will...                           91-08-10 21:52:16 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...add "prefix strings" (previously sort of alluded to) to Standard
File and extended list controls with the fCtlCanBeTarget bit set.  This
will let you type up to the first 32 characters of any item in such a
list (including the file lists in Standard File) to select it through
the keyboard.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  A few ideas                           91-08-16 04:05:27 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

It's probably to late to get new ideas in, but...

How about making tool names real names instead of numbers?  That would
be helpful to a lot of users with applications that say which tools
they use.  And smart users could put the tools aside themselves, for
example, if they knew Tool035 was really MidiSynth or that Tool029 was
really Audio Compression/Expansion.

Still hoping for an MS-DOS FST...

Printing functions from the Finder?

File commands from BASIC.System?

The ability to assign bad blocks after "Verify..." in the Finder?

An Amiga FST (or does that go under MS-DOS)??

Font samples from the Finder?

Tools that help incorporate voice over sound (I know, probably not
'till next version)??

Getting rid of that boot thermometer on boot up?  It just makes the
machine look wimpy.  I hope 6.0 is fast enough so that it doesn't make
it necessary.

Spinning watch hands?

Support for 256 and 3200 color paint files (It's probably already done
and I just missed it along the way, but how about tools?)?

QuickDraw II support for Beizer curves?

Shadowed icons (Looks are everything babe...)?

Cut the contents of windows to the clipboard in the Finder?


Thanks for coming out to talk with everyone on AO Matt DTS...certainly
appreciate it. :)

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  font samples                          91-08-16 08:56:54 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

With 6.0 Finder's finder extension ability, one can easily write an
init/da to allow people to view fonts in the finder! :)

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  New CD-ROM driver                     91-08-16 22:14:35 EST
From:  LumiTech Posted on: America Online

How about an updated CD-ROM driver that will work with the RamFAST
SCSI?  Just bought a Chinon drive, but can't use it because,

#1 - The RamFAST, as I understand it (and I could be wrong), will not
recognize the stock CD driver.

#2 - Chinon does not offer (I called them today) a driver for the Apple
II GS.  Of course they offer other computers, Mac, IBM, Amiga, and many
others.

#3 - Can't even play music on it...no control button on the face panel.
 I have the CDA-431.  I was told that they just released a new model, #
CDC-431, that has a remote port AND a SCSI port.

Please write one for v6.0.

LumiTech

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  More ideas & A Question.              91-08-17 00:55:41 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

Well, I'll put the ideas down first.

-A Comunications Tool like on the Mac.  To be honest, I don't know all
the things the tool does on the Mac, but I've heard it's made some
people's lives easier.  If such a tool will also help to make better
communication programs (AWGS needs work...hint hint), then LET THERE BE
A TOOL!

-A completed Animation Toolkit...

-A 25-32 character limit on names in ProDOS (meaning GS/OS, but I've
heard people get technical with the AppleShare FST).  If we can't have
more than 32 megs in a partion, than lets at least have longer names. 
For older P8 versions that can't do it, how about a nice
incompatibility message like the ones for P8 1.9?

-Lose the text screen after launching a program.  Although I like the
text screen that announces what program is being launched because it
balances the natures of the GS, in contributes to the wimpy look of the
machine and makes you lose the feel for the graphic capabilities. 
Reminds me of MS-DOS.

Now the question.  Has someone done a report on Sys 6, not just
KansasFest, things from faster loading to the new "Control Panels?" 
Sorry if I sound impatient.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Font viewing da's...                  91-08-17 01:37:32 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

...have been around for a LONGGGGGG time.  Look in your old issues of
Call-A.P.P.L.E. and you'll even find one done as an article (with
complete source code).  Take the article, and create a Finder Extension
of your own...


Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  You can't...                          91-08-17 11:45:57 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...change the ProDOS file system to make it do things that don't fit in
the data structures, like have volumes greater than 32 MB, file names
longer than 15 characters or file types larger than one byte.  It just
won't work.  To do so would be to create a new file system that's
incompatible with everything else in the world, which accomplishes
nothing except creating tons of problems for the people who use it.  If
you want less restrictions on file names and volume sizes, under 6.0
you'll be able to use HFS, which is not as limited as ProDOS in these
matters.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  At least some ideas work.             91-08-18 02:32:33 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

I'm sorry that to hear that the pathnames can't be longer.  I won't
argue that point since I'm not an experienced programmer, and after all
the other arguments you've had, it would be stupid to put up a fuss.  I
was hoping the pathnames could be bigger because HFS is a slower system
than GS/OS.  I'm glad you said that the other things couldn't be done
though!  While I'm at it, did I mention aliases?  If not then they
should be mentioned.  How about faster modem/printer drivers as well
and a user configurable buffer for those ports instead of the usual 2K?
 And how about a about system option that tells you your ROM version
and speed?  The more info people have about their machines, the better.
 Also, being able to read a text file from the Finder is better than
having to launch the Teach application, even if it does read Macwrite
and AppleWorks files.  But then again, I should be grateful for having
Teach at all.

NCP (aka ChunkyButt) :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Accelerater control                   91-08-18 21:23:52 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

How about a Misc. Tool call to slow down an accelerater?  I know each
card is different but it seems like if Zip or AE could supply the small
routine to slow it down in a file then this tool call would simply go
through a chain of these routines, slowing everything down.  A tool
call could also be made to bring everything back up to speed again.

This would be nice so you wouldn't have to say "To see the desired
effect, turn your Transwarp GS or Zip GS off before running this
program..."

Derek

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  More file operations                  91-08-18 22:52:31 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

And how about more file functions from BASIC?  Would help ][e people
looke better to MS-DOS people.  And how about a faster FastFont tool? 
Expand it so it covers more fonts

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Setting the system speed              91-08-19 20:56:40 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

There's already a GS/OS system service call, SET_SYS_SPEED, which
exists almost exactly for this purpose (so that the OS can set the
speed necessary for devices to operate).  It will let you set either
1.0 MHz, 2.8 MHz ("Fast" speed), >2.8 MHz (accelerated) or
"speed-independent" (meaning you don't care).

This was put into GS/OS from the beginning so accelerator makers could
patch into it and slow down, or provide companion peripherals that
require acceleration.  But, sadly, neither AE nor Zip ships software
that makes this vector work with acceleration, though it's been around
for 3 years.

(Want proof?  Go into Nifty List from 16-bit software and type 1FC50L;
the resulting JMP will probably point somewhere straight into the
middle of the device dispatcher, which you can recognize from the $3xxx
user ID.)

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  That's wild...                        91-08-21 00:44:51 EST
From:  BCS Al Posted on: America Online

This feature has been part of GS/OS for 3 years and 3rd parties haven't
used it? That's really strange.

Al Willis


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  IW2 network printing                  91-08-23 21:32:12 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

Why do the current IW2 network printer drivers restrict you to draft
quality text when you print "text only"?  Why can't you adjust it to
standard or NLQ?  Is there any way around this restriction?  In system
6 ?

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Re: SET_SYS_SPEED and ZipGSx          91-08-26 17:23:25 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

I asked Dave Fein over at ZipTech about it..  He's informed me that the
ZipTalk init already covers this (I just popped into NL and it does
:-), and that support of the vector in the other zip system software
for people without appletalk would be done fairly shortly.

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  IWII wish                             91-08-26 20:14:41 EST
From:  Henrym9 Posted on: America Online

One thing I hate about printing text only is that it always selects the
middle quality printing for the IWII.  To me this is the worst looking
one.  I'd love to have someway to select either draft, or NLQ mode when
you print text only.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  huh?                                  91-08-26 20:36:38 EST
From:  DYA Jim1 Posted on: America Online

For me it has always selected draft, which I think looks terrible.  It
has selected draft using both non-networked and networked IW2 printers
for me.  When my IW2 was non-networked, as soon as I hit OK on the
print box and it started printing, I could quickly hit select and
change to standard quality and the rest of the document would print in
standard quality.  The network setup is MUCH smarter - if I hit select
during printing and change it to standard quality it will immediately
stop and set it back to draft quality!  I would love to be able to
control text printing quality -- maybe I should patch the driver or
something as someone suggested in another folder <g>

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Tape Drives                           91-08-28 20:39:13 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

On the PC, you can use a tape drive as a hard drive and use it in
programs. Will the new tape driver let me do this?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Tape drive as hard drive              91-08-29 02:22:49 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

Might I ask WHY you'd want to use a Tape drive as a hard drive? I
suppose I could see you wanting to get a particular file off the tape,
but there are much better ways to do that (tar, for instance, or I
suppose Apple's new backup software).  Trying to use a filesystem
designed for a random-access device is terribly slow. jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Fonts: Shaston -> Chicago             91-08-29 21:53:29 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

Wouldn't it be possible to simply write a Permanent initialization file
that could change the system fort from the Shaston 8 in ROM to a font
on disk such as Chicago 9?

On tape drives, I'd want to use it for running a BBS and for storing
files that are huge but don't require speed (ala GIFs).

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Tape Drives...                        91-08-30 19:45:52 EST
From:  AFL Scott Posted on: America Online

Unfortunately, you'll find out that seeking for a specific file on tape
is pretty slow no matter what your use.  You're better off keeping tape
use restricted to backups.  Don't get us wrong, tape drives can and are
used just for the purpose you list, but think of your users... do they
want to wait around for a tape drive to access a file?   I've seen such
things take a long time -- especially if the needed file is near the
end of the tape.

Scott

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Chicago 9                             91-08-30 20:09:34 EST
From:  SFAC MikeD Posted on: America Online

Chicago 9 would not look good on the GS' 200 vertical display.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Try it...                             91-08-30 20:30:52 EST
From:  AFA Jay Posted on: America Online

Use one of those MenuFont programs that lets you change the menus and
menu bar font to whatever you want.  Chicago 12 is the closest thing I
could find to the size of Shaston 8, but it's still a bit to big.  And
anyway, I like my GS to look like a GS, not a Mac ;)

Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Stuff                                 91-08-31 01:26:12 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

Scott - I have thought of my users. And after being a user myself for a
long while, I tend to think that for X dollars, as a user, I'd rather
have the board have 500 megs of space that are hella slow than 40 megs
of a Wren Runner II with a DMA cache card. (numers are completely out
of my head and are probably messed, but you get the idea.)

Jay - The GS (excuse my frankness) has no "look" of it's own other than
something like FTA does. The GS coppies the Mac (that's why I bought
it, like a color Mac) and so does Windows 3.0. It's really nothing to
be ashamed of.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  The GQ (or is that GS) "Look"         91-09-03 01:32:31 EST
From:  MMunz Posted on: America Online

Uhh, the IIGS may look similar to a Macintosh when it is running in
Desktop mode (ie using the Toolbox), but the IIGS offers you a text
mode (which is pretty difficult to find on a Macintosh). Of course, it
is in text mode where many of the famous Apple II programs run -- like
AppleWorks.

Mark

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Text mode                             91-09-03 15:47:38 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

Here's a fun trick to play on an unsuspecting Macintosh user (ya know,
the 'rest of us' type).  Talk to him about the features of the GS
briefly, then ask the Mac user how he likes his text mode.  When he
says, "But my Macintosh doesn't have a text mode!", tell him he'd
better get to his dealer and have it upgraded right away! :-) jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  That "GS Look"                        91-09-05 20:09:58 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

When it's in text mode, it looks like an Apple IIe/c/plus etc. When in
desktop mode it looks like a Mac. The closest thing to a real "GS look"
is something from FTA or the 320 mode..

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  looks                                 91-09-05 20:22:37 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

The GS has several looks, most all its own..  The GS desktop look is
not like a mac, it is distinctly GS.  Much of this distinction comes
from the fact that the GS has a unique system font all its own, and
several other differences in the desktop implementation.  In order for
the GS desktop look to be just like a Mac, it would need a different
aspect ratio, and Mac system fonts, and an identical desktop
implementation as the Mac, IMO.

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  System 6.0 MUST-HAVE                  91-09-06 16:39:27 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

I just thought of this.  Why isn't there a tool/GSOS call to return the
standard representation of filetypes/auxtypes?  It could be a resource,
or straight file, or 5:3 compressed ascii in memory, or anything.  This
way, all user applications could have the same file descriptions as the
finder. jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  ProDOS 8 and forked files             91-09-06 17:22:45 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

Why not have a GS-specific P8 that loads a patch file (or perhaps  an
init that watches for P8 launches then patches).  Then you'll have the
whole GS memory to extend P8 (not that you'd want to- but certainly
more then the 18 bytes Matt D. mentioned.)  It doesn't matter that the
modified P8 couldn't be used on an older II - they have 0 support for
extended files anyway. A few well placed conditional assembly
directives and you have a winner. jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Re: Must Have                         91-09-06 18:20:18 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

Such a feature is already supported, mostly, by the Filetype descriptor
files in the icons subdirectory.  Any program can read in and intrepret
these files and have the same descriptions as the finder (I believe
GShrinkIt, Max/Edit, and NiftyFile all are examples of these type of
programs.)  But, as Matt likes to emphasize, don't hardcode reading in
"FTYPE.MAIN" and "FTYPE.AUX" :)

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  What Jim said, plus.                  91-09-06 19:54:48 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Making a toolcall to do this isn't really in everyone's best interest,
because only applications that need the descriptions should have to
take the memory hit for the descriptors.  I may still have some source
code on how to do it around here somewhere (since Dave and I wrote the
Finder code that does it); it's not as complicated as, say, porting an
operating system.

Extending P8 into other banks doesn't necessarily buy you anything. 
The rest of P8 is still in 8-bit code living in language card areas of
bank zero -- if you want to share any routines, you've got to be able
to JSR to those routines and pass parameters on absolute zero page, in
registers, on the global page, etc.   You wind up having to do a lot
more to P8 than you think and you don't gain all that much -- if it
only runs on a IIgs, it shouldn't be that big a deal to use GS/OS for
those features anyway.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Memory hit?                           91-09-07 14:21:22 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

Nonsense- how about loading the info into a purgable handle.  If the
handle has been purged, then reload from disk.  In any case, I was
thinking more along the lines of the 3 char representations, with an
option to get a longer form if you want.  I'm thinking about
applications like 'ls' or 'catalog', that will suffer from reading the
Icons file every time someone wants to view a directory. Granted, a
shell (Finder, GNO, Orca) could pre-load the information for the
benefit of applications running under it, but that's something of a
hack, and it'd be around most of the time anyway. And how much memory
does System 6.0 require anyway? 20 character filetype descriptions (for
all 256 main types) would take < 4k (with 6:2 compression). Anyway, I
still insist that there should be some Apple-defined way to access this
sort of information.  (Sys.Resources?) I just mulled it over for a
minute.  I guess it's a trade off between willing to give up memory vs.
how many programs are going to use that info. jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Why mess with P8?                     91-09-09 15:10:40 EST
From:  BCS Al Posted on: America Online

I can't see what creating a GS-specific P8 would get anyone. Like Matt
said, if people need features like forked files, they should GS/OS.

Personally, I'd like to see Apple using its resources to enhance GS/OS
than making major changes in P8 at this time.

Al


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  P8 stuff                              91-09-09 16:43:58 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

I agree, but people are constantly clamoring for more and more P8
features.  Perhaps a little nudge from Apple towards the direction of
GS/OS specific programs would help this? jb


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  P8                                    91-09-09 21:53:46 EST
From:  GS Express Posted on: America Online

I'll be happy with P8 allowing access to more than two devices per slot
and 8 or 14 total devices (as will many sysops of P8 based BBS systems
with lots of HD space). Beyond that, I agree with the consensus that
it's a waste to devote resources to further enhancing P8 at this time.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  System 6.0 Chat                       91-09-11 18:20:10 EST
From:  AFA Jay Posted on: America Online

The log of ADV's Tuesday, September 10th chat is available in the
Software Libraries under "Transcripts and Articles"  It's a less than
three minute download at 2400 baud and it contains information on some
of the new features of the upcoming system.

Jay


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  How 'bout...                          91-09-11 21:24:06 EST
From:  MRanes Posted on: America Online

How about preferences in the new finder that allow the user to set a
default font on startup?  I ALWAYS have to set the font in AWGS to get
going as I dont care for Geneva.

Mark

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  AWGS and Geneva                       91-09-11 22:26:45 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

Mark, wouldn't that improvement have to be added to AWGS and not the
Finder?  (BTW, I HATE Geneva too and never use it either now that I'm
using a laserwriter :)

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Perhaps...                            91-09-12 23:15:06 EST
From:  MRanes Posted on: America Online

Perhaps the default font is program dependent.  Just seems like
everyone dumps into Geneva.  Yuck!

Mark

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  How about file links?                 91-09-20 01:47:51 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

How about adding symbolic links to GS/OS?  It'd be sooooo nice. It
could be done easily, even under the ProDOS FST.  A new filetype
assignment, or perhaps a storage type.

I had thought to write some GS/OS patches that would add this
functionality, but I came across some problem that was not solvable
without internal GS/OS info.

I think this is a reasonable request- what do you think? jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  yes!                                  91-09-20 23:08:12 EST
From:  AFA Parik Posted on: America Online


I really miss symbolic links on personal computers.  It makes
organizing hard drives and so forth very simple.

Is that part of the alias feature of 7.0 on the mac?



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Vitual Memory                         91-09-22 22:16:01 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

How bout it? Someone (I think it was Jerry Kline of InSync) was telling
me about how it wasn't possible on the II. Is that true or just a bunch
on BS? (DWS did it in Dream Grafix)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Virtual Memory                        91-09-23 00:58:36 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

Well, it depends on what you mean by "virtual memory".  By definition,
virtual memory requires hardware which the IIgs does not have.  Real VM
allows any block of memory (a page) to be reassigned a new address as
the program in question will see it.  Pages are usually 4k on systems
with between 2-16 MB of RAM. The performance of the IIgs would be
lowered significantly with a VM system at 2.8MHz (unless a IIgs
designed for VM was produced, in which case it would suffer around
20%). An integral part of VM for many years has been memory protection-
the ability of the OS to prevent programs from overwriting each other's
memory space. The rumored DSP card (Pete Snowberg) would be able to do
VM mapping and memory protection.  The GS WOULD benefit from VM, in
that it would almost never crash (with appropriate patches to the
toolbox & GS/OS), but it can't be done in software- hardware (>>$100)
is required. jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  The Mac Alias Manager is...           91-09-24 23:57:13 EST
From:  Jump Long Posted on: America Online

It's a collection of routines that allow you create a record which can
be used later to find a particular file on a particular volume (even if
that volume isn't online).  The alias record contains the volume name,
the directory ID number, the file name, verification information (file
ID number, creation date, file type, creator type, and relative path
information) and any volume mounting information (in the case of an
AppleShare volume, the server name, zone name, and user name).  When an
application tries to resolve the alias record later, the Alias Manager
uses all of this information to try to find the original file; even if
it has been moved on the volume or renamed.

All of this would be impossible to make as robust on the Apple II
without things like directory IDs and file IDs and a command like
CatSearch (a Mac File Manager routine that looks for a file that
matches certain specs), but it could probably be done.

-JML


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I got one !                           91-09-29 21:16:52 EST
From:  KeithW23 Posted on: America Online

I wish it would come out next week and be available from my authorized
Apple dealer at that time.

Now, everybody get up off the floor and wipe your eyes...   ;)

Keith Whaley

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  KeithW23 - you've got one what?       91-09-30 02:45:21 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Keith - your recent post exclaimed "I got one!" - got one what?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Tim!                                  91-09-30 08:02:00 EST
From:  ChamlnSoft Posted on: America Online

All is explained re: "I got one!" if you remember what folder you're in
:))


Jeff

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Just remember...                      91-10-01 00:40:43 EST
From:  AFL GaryJ Posted on: America Online

You only get three :)

Gary


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Filenames                             91-10-08 17:37:42 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

Couldn't spaces be used in filenames just as lowercase letters are? 
ie, a lowercase period could be considered a space where an uppercase
period would be a "."  You wouldn't need any additions or extra bytes
to do this...  You could also do the same thing with numbers, allowing
some punctuation (the names might look funny in P8)

The only problem I can see in doing this is programs parsing input... 
I'd love to see some punctuation and spaces allowed - seems like it
would be possible using this method.

Derek

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Use the 6.0 Mac HFS FST               91-10-08 20:57:38 EST
From:  AFL GaryJ Posted on: America Online

The Mac HFS FST will let you do all that with file names.   It's
supposed to work well with all your GS/OS software too.

Gary


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I know                                91-10-08 21:27:38 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

I know it will be available under HFS... however, HFS is a slower
filing system and has other disadvantages like you can't boot up from
it (meaning you must have at least one prodos partition on your
drive)...  I'd like to see this working under Prodos :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I agree with Derek                    91-10-08 21:54:28 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

HFS is not a panacea answer, Gary :)  I wonder how many programs will
PUKE with it when given longer filenames and strange characters in
filenames than they're used to...  Plus the two points that Derek just
brought up..

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  ProDOS & spaces...                    91-10-09 00:24:41 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

...won't happen in 6.0.  Yes, I know, it's been suggested repeatedly
that instead of using real spaces, Apple should use lower case periods
(which tend to look like spaces).  It just doesn't work - it causes
more problems and generates more confusion than it cures.

Tim S.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Well...                               91-10-09 17:11:59 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

These suggestions don't have to make it to 6.0 - I'm just suggesting
them "for the future".

I guess I don't see where the spaces would mess things up.  I'm not
talking about making a whole new FST or anything - just print them
differently.  Or there could be a GSOS call that you could call
indicating that you can handle the different characters - or add it as
a new paramater to anything that returns a filename.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I don't get it...                     91-10-09 18:50:03 EST
From:  BCS Al Posted on: America Online

I don't understand the constant requests for ProDOS to deal with spaces
and other characters.

I think Tim is right: doing this would cause more problems than it
solves.

And before people are so quick to wonder about HFS FST compatibility,
properly written desktop programs will work fine. Apple, through
technotes, has been saying for a while that applications shouldn't try
to interpet file names--let the FST tell you whether or not the name is
correct.

I also don't see having to boot into the ProDOS partition as bad. All
system stuff could hang out on the system partition and other stuff
could be stored on the HFS partition. Why is that bad?

Anyway, when System 6.0 is real, hopefully we can stop talking about
additions to ProDOS 8 filenames and get on with the business of
developing software.

Al


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Al                                    91-10-09 19:15:18 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

The way I've descibed to change periods into spaces will not mess
anything up.  I'm not talking about changing Prodos 8 at all - leave it
as is.  GS/OS would be the only thing to change. By using the
uppercase/lowercase bits to indicate spaces or other punctuation is
just like indicating a lowercase character - only GS/OS sees it like
this.  Under prodos 8, the file would look like they have for a long
time.  For instance "My File" would by "MY.FILE"....

I don't mean to start an argument here - I'm just giving a suggestion
that could be used for a future system disk without as much difficulty
as writing a new FST or rewriting parts of Prodos 8.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Stuff (Al)                            91-10-09 20:02:32 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

I like spaces.  I hate this limitation of ProDOS.  And this suggestion
presents a nice and pretty easy (IMO) way to get around the space
limitation of ProDOS.  A really elegant solution, IMO.. I'd love to see
this implemented!

>I think Tim is right: doing this would cause more problems than >it
solves.

Can anyone list the problems?  I can't see too many (other than I
believe Matt's "But a lowercase period is a comma, not a space" comment
earlier when this was suggested a long time ago, and the fact that some
users might not be able to comprehend a space in GSOS looking like a
period in P8, both of which are very minor, IMO).

I'm curious to see how many programs will fail under HFS.  I'm sorry to
say but nobody listens to apple ALL the time except apple itself.  It
might be nice to think that all the desktop programs have followed
every guideline exactly, but the truth is they haven't (but we'll see
for certain real soon.)

>Apple, through technotes, has been saying for a while that
>applications shouldn't try to interpet file names--let the FST >tell
you whether or not the name is correct.

And what about programs written before the FST concept became widely
accepted?  And what about programmers that still found it easier not to
go thru the FST?  There are a lot of programs like this.

>Anyway, when System 6.0 is real, hopefully we can stop talking >about
additions to ProDOS 8 filenames and get on with the >business of
developing software.

How is this an addition to ProDOS 8 filenames?  Or were you referring
to something else?  System software should be just as worked on as the
"business of developing software."

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  ProDOS / HFS FST                      91-10-09 20:58:54 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

The prob with a prodos 8 partition at all is that it's annoying. I've
got a 40 meg HD, and I'm sick of having to copy disk to disk and then
delete the original file, and not being able to spread files accross
this barrier (say I had a 34 meg file or 34 megs of files that need to
be together). Actually, Apple doesn't even follow it's own programing
specs. Do you see NDA's in SynthLab? The reason things are like this
(Modify ProDOS ) is because Apple made a slow machine and bogged it
down with slow tools. If Apple would make their tools faster (as fast
as no tools) then people would use them. Also, people need to run P8
because of Apple's new unofficial, screw GS/OS, write p8 educational
software policy. All I can say is that it was pretty lame of whoever
wrote p8 in the first palce to put limitations on it so that it can be
modified (as much as we want) in the future.




Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Spaces=bad news                       91-10-10 12:16:26 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

If spaces were introduced, I can name 4 major programs that would
immediately fail...   APW, ORCA, REZ and Merlin +.  All of these rely
on spaces as separators for filenames, parameters and switches.  This
would cause a major headache for anyone who uses any of these
programming tools..

As for what won't work with the HFS FST, I'll name a few that don't
work..  First a pre-FST program---AOL.  It doesn't even recognize the
format at all, returns a directory damaged error. Second, ProSel. 
There is no provision built into ProSel to process non-ProDOS
directories.  ProSel doesn't use any FST's, but reads data directly
from the volume.  (The N command in utilities and the online shell
command will return the proper volume name, even with spaces, from a
HFS volume, but that's about it).. Third, ShrinkIt GS.  It does work,
but the filenames are processed prior to creating the files when
unpacking, so nothing other than ProDOS type filenames get passed to
the FST.  I'm sure this will be fixed either prior to, or immediately
after the release of 6.0. I haven't checked packing files from an HFS
volume yet...

Andy...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  let's see...                          91-10-10 13:42:26 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

I was under the impression Orca/Apw/Rez all allowed filenames to be
placed within quotes if there are spaces in the filenames.  At least
the better written shell utilities do..

But if apw/orca/rez, and merlin+ don't work well with spaces then how
is the HFS FST going to work (as someone seemed to suggest earlier), or
is there something else?

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  HFS and P8 limitations                91-10-10 17:54:11 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

To anyone who cares: Just about every program I've tried works with
System 6.0 and the HFS FST.  This ranges from Orca to AppleWorks GS,
from a Life program I wrote years ago to GNO.  WITH Spaces, ampersands
(&), and all manner of goofy characters in the filenames.

To Smullen: The author(s) of ProDOS 8 no more built in limitations than
automakers design their cars to fall apart after 4 years.  The same
design criteria applies in both cases- how can I make the best product
given limited resources? Limiting volumes to 32MB simplified the design
of ProDOS 8.  Remember that ProDOS was based on SOS and probably shares
a lot of code with its predecessor, so this was another consideration.
I'm sure there are good reasons for not allowing NDAs in SynthLab, the
least of which is probably the fact that it has a custom palette and
customized menu/control drawing.  And also remember that the items
everyone calls 'rules' are in fact GUIDELINES. And as far as the FTA
and their "no tools" position goes, they were not able to use the tools
because they couldn't read the ToolBox Reference Manuals!  The tools
are NOT slow.  There is some overhead involved, but it's a small price
to pay for what you get in return- a wealth of user interface routines
that make all IIgs programs easier to use, and in fact are probably
responsible for programs ported to/from the Macintosh. My position on
old programs that directly read the disk, like ProSel- new tools will
be developed that do what the old ones did. HFS provides major new
capabilities for the IIgs.  Don't knock it because DOS 3.3 can't
recognize it. jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  DOS 3.3 & HFS FST                     91-10-10 20:33:17 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

It's one thing for it not to work with programs hardly anyone uses and
quite another to render an entire software library (ProDOS 8, which has
a considerable # of titles) unusable. Using it (HFS FST) to reformat
your HD sounds good IN THERORY, just like a lot of Apple's policys
(both techincal and economic/business) sound good in theory. IMHO, the
HFS FST should only be used for the read write Mac data disks and not
for this rediculous idea of reformation you whole hard drive to another
file system.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  MSDOS FST                             91-10-10 22:50:23 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

BTW, Matt, why did Apple exclude the above which seemed (from what I
heard) like a popular idea?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  No sympathy                           91-10-11 01:44:07 EST
From:  BCS Al Posted on: America Online

I have no sympathy for programs such as ProSEL which access the disk
directly. Glen Bredon has had plenty of time to adjust to GS/OS and
FSTs.

I also agree that the HFS FST is a *major* addition to Apple IIgs
users. I'm ready for the added capabilities promised by HFS, including
more expressive file names.

The great thing about the Apple IIgs is that everyone can have it their
way: you don't even have to install additional FSTs unless you want to.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to the new FST. Perhaps 6 months from now,
people will no longer be talking about should the ProDOS FST display
periods as spaces, because System 6 was such a hit.

Al


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  MSDOS FST                             91-10-11 16:29:11 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

An MS-DOS FST would probably be trivial, except for the fact that the
regular Apple 800K drives can't read MS-DOS 720K disks.  Perhaps when
the Apple II SuperDrive comes out?... jb


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Icons                                 91-10-12 14:50:34 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

I think System 6.0 should come with better icons.  I think some people
without access to a modem may think that the icons included are the
only ones available.  They wouldn't have to be fancy.  Maybe include
the shrinkit icons, a new icon for folders, the trash, CDAs, NDAs, SYS,
S16, Basic files...  Maybe you Apple could even ask people to send in
their best icons and use the ones they want (that might be a pain
though...)

just an idea.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Lots of stuff                         91-10-12 17:16:53 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

First, spaces in ProDOS filenames are a horrible idea _unless_ ProDOS 8
is modified to deal with them, which it won't be because there's not
really enough room in it.

Think about it, gang -- a novice could save an AppleWorks 3.0 program
from a GS/OS program and save it as "My File", and then go to ProDOS 8
and type the name "My File" and get "File not found."  If they get to
_see_ a directory display, they _might_ figure out that "My.File" and
"My File" are the same thing, but they might not.  And what happens
when "My.File" exists and they try to save "My File" -- they get "File
already exists" when they can see in the Standard File dialog that it
doesn't.

People can easily figure out that a "T" is a "t" or an "E" is the same
as an "e", but calling completely dissimilar characters the same for
techno-babble reasons isn't very friendly, and I'm against it.  It's
like saying "You can now put * in a ProDOS pathname because it's a
lower-case 8."  How many people would that confuse?

As for tools and speed -- if you don't like the advantages of NDAs,
windows, controls and menus that all behave in a consistent way, so
that you're comfortable doing things all the time, you're welcome to
investigate the MS-DOS world, where all programs have to build their
own interface and no two programs work the same way, even with mice. 
(Until you use Windows, where you can complain about the speed again.) 
The tools make the system work in a consistent way; if you'd rather
spend all your free time learning new interfaces to programs, well,
it's a free country.

As for an MS-DOS FST -- yeah, well, I'd like TextEdit to scroll
horizontally, too, but I also like knowing that Dave and Greg get to go
home and sleep for about 14 hours every two days.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Matt                                  91-10-14 23:28:11 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

I'm not suggesting "kill the tools", I'd just like to see them a little
faster.

How could an MS-DOS FST be so hard if the Mac does it? Same disk drive
(err, well when we get the SuperDrive GS), very similar OS's. How is it
so easily done on the Mac & not the GS?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  actually...                           91-10-15 03:24:06 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Matt,

>>> It's like saying "You can now put * in a ProDOS pathname because
it's a lower-case 8."


"*" is UPPER-case 8.  See, it's such a confusing concept, Matt even
baffled himself...  <grin>

Tim S.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Finder & Prog launching               91-10-18 23:59:58 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

The one thing I really like about using the macintosh is the ability to
launch any document by clicking on its icon or selecting an icon and
choosing print from the file menu and actually having the thing print! 
I realize some GS programs already do this (AWGS, ANSIViewer,
SoundShop, HyperCard GS, etc.), but I'd really like it if this would
happen with all documents.  (I do have icons with the application's
pathname, but some programs don't open/print the document from the
finder, like: anything in ProDOS 8, GIF/View 3200, text files in AWGS,
SoundSmith, etc.)  Is System 6 going to fix this or is this really more
of a problem with the programs themselves?  Is it possible to write P8
applications that WILL do this?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Messages                              91-10-19 01:15:53 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

System 6 has additional support for messages.  However, messages are
intended for use with desktop applications, and therefore cannot be
used with P8 programs.  The only exception is passing a filename to P8
so it can start the proper P8 application.

How extensive the new message center calls are hasn't really been
discussed in any of the System 6 discussions I'v seen...

Andy...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Sys 6 & ORCA/APW                      91-10-19 22:37:22 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

A while back it was mentioned that some things will not work with the
HFS FST (mainly relating to spaces in filenames).  I have since then
checked out ORCA (someone said it would work).  If a filename has a
space in it, ORCA will NOT work.  ORCA uses spaces as delimiters, and
even if the filename is in quotes, the filename is still split by the
ORCA shell.  This usually will result in a "too many parameters" error.


Andy...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  New LaserWriter driver                91-10-20 06:05:42 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

Briefly, I would like to see a LaserWriter driver that gives some or
all of the options available on the Mac drivers (I have only seen the
ones from System 6.0.7, but I know there are a lot).  If such a driver
is being developed, I would like to know so I can make my LaserJet III
ready for PostScript.

Thanks, NCP P.S. Printing Finder windows would be nice.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Fast Modem I/O                        91-10-20 21:56:48 EST
From:  Ron Basset Posted on: America Online

Can someone explain to me how to get 9600 or greater speed out of the
GS by using Apple recommended methods?  (ie Not talking to the
registers directly!).

Thanks, Ron

ps: Do I have to wait for 6.0 to do this?


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Fast modem access                     91-10-21 18:58:58 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

I'd recommend my toolset, "Modem Manager".  It's available here on
America OnLine.  It can easily handle 9600 baud on a stock GS, and up
to 38,400 baud on an accelerated machine. jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Fast Modems                           91-10-22 04:31:56 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

If the control panel is set to 9600 baud and the modem is a 1200 baud,
does the computer end up waiting for the modem or is there any
difference in speed?  Also, what's wrong with a stock GS running at
9600 baud?  Can the machine just not keep up and need specialized
drivers?

Sorry if I'm straying from the topic :).

NCP P.S. I hope the bug is fixed in the Finder where while in the
middle of editing a file name, you switch views in the View menu, and
the Finder crashes (no offense intended to Andy Nicholas' capabilities
:)). P.P.S. Is there a control panel that lets you set background
patterns and different error beeps?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Sound Enhancement                     91-10-22 04:35:16 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

Two things:

-The ability to record sound in the sound control panel.

-Make the sound tools as part of the GS/OS system file (not including
MidiSynth or MIDI tools).  This way, the ability to make sound or music
will be assured in every program that runs under 6.0.

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Different beeps                       91-10-22 07:25:56 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

The sound portion of the control panels does allow different beeps for
different events.  The version I have only allows selection of pitch
and volume, not separate sounds.  I'm sure this can easily be extended
into different loaded sounds...

Andy..

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  CDev's                                91-10-22 20:45:11 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

I noticed that the new control panel works a little different than the
one now. Will all CDevs have to be re-written to work ok?

Also, I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not an MS-DOS FST
will be made. Which is the right story. (An Amiga FST would be really
cool with NoiseTracker out....)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Amiga FST                             91-10-22 21:51:41 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

I don't think it would be possible to write an Amiga FST with the
standard apple 3.5 drive.  They can't read the disks...

I'm not sure about it with the superdrive.  It may be possible then.

I agree - a number of programs are allowing conversion to and from
Amiga now - IFF graphics, NoizeTracker music, Digitized sounds...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Stuff                                 91-10-22 22:11:42 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

It's my understanding that most all of the existing CDevs will work
with the new control panel..

An amiga FST might be a nice novelty, but it would have a limited use. 
NoizeTracker cdouldn't use it directly, either, being a P8 program..

No MS-DOS FST on System 6..

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  CDEVS                                 91-10-22 22:21:49 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

Well, SoundOff works with System 6, and it even places it's icon in the
line in the proper place.  I don't really think there is much of a
difference in the mechanism of the CDEVS themselves, but there is a
difference in the Control Panel NDA.  You still have the long list of
icons for the different functions, but you have an open and help button
instead of having the first CDEV automatically opening.  Also, the CDEV
window is now separate from the Control Panel's window.  I haven't
tried this yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if more than one CDEV can
be open at a time.

Andy...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Back up.                              91-10-22 23:45:32 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

1) The Mac OS and GS/OS are not "very similar", at least in terms of
implementation.  GS/OS has no native file system -- everything is
handled through FSTs.  The Macintosh OS has one "external file system
hook" that anything not deciphered to be HFS is passed through to.  Big
difference in terms of designing the system for multiple file systems,
as most people will tell you.

2) It's not "easy" or "trivial" to do this on the Macintosh, either,
and to my knowledge it's not really supported, either.

3) There is no MS-DOS FST for the Macintosh either, again to my
knowledge.  Apple File Exchange will read MS-DOS disks, but it also
reads ProDOS disks.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Uh Matt....                           91-10-23 01:33:24 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Ol' buddy, hate to break it to you, but I believe what most folks think
of as an MS-DOS FST for the Mac is really a third-party product know as
DosMounter (or something real similar to that).  It lets you insert
MS-DOS disks and they show up on the desktop just like they were Mac
disks (you cna copy files on/off of them, etc).  It's not a real FST,
but it does what most folks want (lets files come and go easily in the
Finder).

Tim S. (nope, I don't use it, but then again I don't use Apple File
Exchange - it's evil <grin>).

(my opinions are my own)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Changing views while editing...       91-10-23 01:38:29 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Nope, Finder 6.0 does NOT crash when you change views while editing an
icon.  Don't know if Andy did something specific to fix the problem or
if it happens to work for other reasons, but it does not crash (at
least not in the case I tried).

On another note, CDevs that were written properly in the first place
work just fine under System 6's new "look/feel" for CDevs.  There was
one that had hard coded something and came out looking pretty goofy,
but I believe it's the exception, not the rule.  The really cool thing
about the new Control Panel is that you can have multiple CDevs open at
once...

As for an MS-DOS FST, _NO_ it's _NOT_ in System 6.  The "DOS" FST
that's in System 6 is Apple II DOS 3.3 (the Apple II had a DOS 3.3 long
before the MessyDOS world did!!!!).  Most folks simply refer to it as
the "DOS FST" and that leads folks that weren't quite paying attention
to believe it's an MS-DOS FST they heard about and they pass it along
as a bogus rumor...

As for an Amiga FST, the standing joke at KansasFest on this subject is
that it'd be trivial to do - just have the FST return random garbage
and it'd look just like Amiga stuff...  <grin>


Tim (my opinions are my own) S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Recording sound...                    91-10-23 01:39:44 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

To the best of my knowledge, the System 6 Sound CDev will not support
recording sound.

The version of the CDev shown at KansasFest was NOT complete, so please
don't base opinions strictly on what was seen there!!!


Thanks, Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  CDEVs                                 91-10-23 18:55:48 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

Yeah, I tried opening several CDEVS at once today, and sure enough, I
had several of them on the desktop at one time..

As for MS-DOS, well, someone somewhere was thinking about it.. There's
a message in the tool patch file (TS2, TS3) that says that the MS-DOS
FST isn't available, but there's another on about the HFS FST which is
there...  I haven't tried a 720k MS-DOS disk to see if it would come up
with that message (I don't have an AppleDisk 3.5, just a UniDisk 3.5).

I did put a MS-DOS formatted disk in a Mac yesterday.  I was going to
format it for the Mac (HFS), and it came up with the contents of the
disk.  Aparently there was something set up on that system that
recognized MS-DOS disks...

Andy...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Andy                                  91-10-24 11:43:04 EST
From:  AFL Floyd Posted on: America Online

There is an INIT or CDEV available for the Mac (I can't recall the
name) that automatically mounts MS-DOS volumes.  The Mac you were
working on probably had it installed.

Floyd

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  It's possible                         91-10-25 22:33:37 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

The Mac was set up in a store with a CD drive on it, so it could have
had just about anything on it's HD..

Andy..

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  OK.                                   91-10-26 10:11:54 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Well, it is an "FST", but that means something different to the
Macintosh than it does to the IIgs.  I'd draw a picture of the two
processes here if I could figure out how to do it in ASCII, but it
boils down to one basic difference:

GS/OS has no "native" file system -- it asks all FSTs installed who
owns a disk until one claims it, but it does give preference to the
boot FST because it's the most commonly used (that's either ProDOS or
AppleShare).

The Macintosh OS has all of the HFS reading code built-in,
non-modularly, and if HFS can't figure out a disk, it calls the
"External file system" hook which is _one_ vector.

(Under some versions of 6.0 and later, there is a way to write a "File
Manager extension" that lets you do new file systems in a kind of
modular way, which is how the ProDOS FSM for the Apple IIe Card is
implemented, mostly.  I say "mostly" because every time I think I
understand this, someone explains that it's not that easy.)

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Background Printing                   91-10-26 11:50:49 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

If not a full blown MultiFinder, then how about a Print Monitor?  Of
course you'd have to write up the memory expectancies in the manual,
but think how many people would use it!  I'd bet lots of people would
upgrade their memory, not only making the GS more powerful, but also
giving the memory card manufactures more business!  Don't laugh too
hard... just think about it.

NCP P.S. The HFS FST will allow the GS to identify aliases, won't it?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  HFS & Aliases...                      91-10-27 04:05:39 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

No, the HFS FST will not allow the GS to do much of anything with a Mac
System 7 "alias" (other than copy the alias from place to place like
any other file).


Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Aliases...                            91-10-27 12:23:01 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...include HFS structures (an FSSpec plus more, to be semi-precise)
that aren't meaningful under GS/OS.  It's like putting a GS/OS
directory entry plus more information into a regular file -- it could
be resolved into a reference to that file under GS/OS, but wouldn't do
much good on an IBM or a Macintosh.

The way PrintMonitor (as you know it) works is by being a separate
application that runs in the background.  We don't have any kind of
capability like that on the IIgs at this point, and the kind of effort
required to add it makes it extremely unlikely for 6.0 at this point
(you _do_ want us to eventually ship it, don't you?).

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Allow me to clarify.                  91-10-28 05:49:00 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

Apparently I wasn't clear enough on my wish list. :)

What I meant, Apple Santas, about alaises under HFS is would GS/OS be
able to recognize them, as in tell them apart from other files in a
"Get Info..." box and be able to tell the file or volume that they're
linked to.  As for the Print Monitor, I was hoping that it would appear
in 6.1. Neal

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Almost aliases...                     91-10-29 02:17:09 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Neal,

Mac aliases are not supported under System 6 (thought I said that in my
earlier post).

Closest thing to them are what's loosely referred to as a server alias
(part of EasyMount).  It saves the user from having to wade through the
zillions of dialogs required to mount a server, but the "alias" can
ONLY be for the server itself, not for any documents or folders within
the server, and will NOT open the server, it only provides a simpler
way to mount them.


Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  HFS FST                               91-10-29 21:22:38 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

Why do the files under HFS FST come up without file types?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Smullen...                            91-10-29 21:55:53 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...you act as if you're playing with software, which would be pirated
software since you're not on the seed list, and you wouldn't do that,
would you?

No file ever shows up "without" a file type -- those file types and
creator types which don't fit in the HFS - ProDOS table are returned as
$00 ("Unknown"), because that's what they are.  The HFS file and
creator types are returned in the option list, so programmers can deal
with them if they want (like Teach reading MacWrite files).

(There can't be a one-to-one correspondence -- HFS file types and
creator types are four bytes long each, while ProDOS file types are one
byte.  If the FST doesn't do mapping (like "TEXT" to $04), programs
that read text files will completely miss things that aren't $04, and
revising every program in existence isn't a design goal.)

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  6.1 stuff....                         91-10-29 23:00:55 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

You've made it clear that these won't make 6.0 (and thanks for
explaining why!), but, as usual, I've got ideas for making them
plausible for 6.1... Please shoot them down so I can stop asking myself
why not!

For a PrintMonitor type thingee, how about doing it as a DA of CDEV? If
I remember correctly, under System 6, apps can talk to DA's and CDEV's
now, and they've always sort of ran in the background, right? So, if
the driver just told a CDEV or DA "here's what to print..." it could
take over the printing process on the side...

As for the alias thing, why not add alias support to GS/OS? That way,
aliases could be used on any disk, and the HFS aliases could just be
mapped into the GS/OS alias structure? I like the thought of a "GS/OS
Alias Manager!"

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Sounds cool to me!                    91-10-30 08:49:39 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

I like those 6.1 ideas.  Very nifty.  As for my wish for aliases (my
last point so I can shut up!), I meant can GS/OS SEE them, not USE
them.  Whenever I see the word "support" here, I think of usage.  My
strange wish is that the HFS FST can SEE the alias for when I'm doing
file maintenance for a Mac illiterate, so I can say things like, "Oh,
here's something...this file is an alias..." and I can tell the person
what it's linked to, but not actually be able to double click its icon
and show the file.  If you already said this couldn't be done, then
tell me once and I will speak of it no more and only ask that a new
version of the FST be able to do this (!).  Now for another
question...will it be possible to click a text document icon and get
into Teach, or is that only for TeachText?

Thanks, NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Click on text, launch teach           91-10-30 15:22:11 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

The 6.0 Finder handles this great, after you tell it where to find
Teach the first time..

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Cool!                                 91-10-30 19:37:18 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

Cool!

Oh, yes.  Won't the new Desktop file get very large storing all those
new resource icons?  If that is how it works, then a system on a 800k
disk could get very tedious!

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Matt                                  91-10-30 21:28:28 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

Naw, I was just messing with a copy that a local developer had. He
thought it was pretty cool. I agree.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  800k                                  91-10-30 22:46:29 EST
From:  DerekY Posted on: America Online

Speaking of 800k disks... will there be a "barebones" version os System
6 that can be installed on a single 800k disk?  I have a hard drive so
this really isn't a problem but I was still wondering what the deal is.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Stuff                                 91-10-31 22:54:17 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Smullen -- please tell your developer friend for me that
"non-disclosure agreement" means "I agree not to disclose this." 
"Disclose" means "tell or show", in case he doesn't realize this.

Printing in the background -- an interesting idea, but DAs or CDevs get
shut down when the application quits.  At any rate, we have no plans
for this.

Aliases -- the Macintosh system has an "Alias Manager" that creates,
resolves and updates aliases and includes some HFS structures that
GS/OS currently has nothing to deal with.  To make this work, like on
the Macintosh, applications would have to be revised to use the Alias
Manager.  Also, every time the Mac system changes, the alias data
structures may change, which creates version errors and other things. 
Further, aliases on the Mac use HFS things like directory IDs and other
things to make finding the original file possible even after renaming
and such -- this isn't really possible under ProDOS and other common
Apple II file systems, so an Alias Manager might not be that useful. 
Again, we currently have no plans for this.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Oh...                                 91-10-31 22:54:44 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

...and 6.0 will come with one pre-configured 800K disk so you don't
have to create one yourself.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Thanks!                               91-10-31 22:58:14 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

Thanks for the prompt response!


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  New speed in the system               91-11-07 00:50:58 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

Even though no one answered my previous question about the new
Laserwriter driver (if there is one, not to be pushy), I'll ask another
Laserwriter question anyway. :) After reading the November Rumors
folder in ATB, I began to wonder if the results of Apple and Adobe
working together to make a faster Laserwriter driver for the Mac would
be seen in GS/OS 6.1.  It would make for a great wish, no?

Also, I hear the rumored System 7.1 will have faster SANE.  Is this
going to be implemented in 6.0?

Thanks in advance, NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  SANE...                               91-11-07 01:16:56 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

No major overhauls of SANE are in IIGS System Software 6.0.

Your 6.1 questions are likely to go unanswerred - no such beat has been
announced, so no comments from Apple people are forth coming. 
Personally, I think it'd make a LOT more sense to focus on what's in
6.0 (since it's not done yet) than to focus on post 6.0 (kind of like
"let 'em finish this first...").   <grin>


Tim S. (my opinions are my own)


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Hmmm...                               91-11-07 19:40:06 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

Well, I had figured that it was pretty close to being done, since the
comment on this folder says December or January.  I also heard that the
alpha versions were pretty stable.  Oh well.  Forgive my impatience. :)

Onto 6.0.... -Are there any minor improvements to SANE that would make
it more useful? -I heard that there is not sort of speed up for 3.5"
drivers or any speed changes to ExpressLoad.  Is this true? -A wish. 
Make a modifacation to the Printer and Modem port control panels so you
can change the buffer sizes.

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  How about 'switch-launching?'         91-11-09 00:43:27 EST
From:  Phantom Jr Posted on: America Online

No, not like what the early Mac's did. Like this:

I'd love to be able to tell a CDEV that I want it to look for another
device while booting, and switch to THAT as the boot device. If it
could fit on a floppy with AppleShare, it would enable someone with no
hard drive (but on a network with a Mac) to switch to the Mac's hard
drive and boot from there.

I think that can be done now if running from a true AppleShare
server---but not with personal file sharing.

I'd like to be able to load the drivers, CDEV's, DA's, tools, fonts,
and EVERYTHING from a remote volume in any way...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  My system 6 wish                      91-11-09 06:52:06 EST
From:  GSGM Posted on: America Online

My system 6 wish is.....


To have system 6 on my machine.

GSGM

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  System 6 wish... one better           91-11-09 12:59:13 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

My wish is that Apple would release new hardware (Apple II cpus) with
the system 6 release......






T'aint gonna happen.... sob sob sob


Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  A wish                                91-11-10 02:31:16 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

That this won't be the last update we ever see...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  If you wish upon a star...            91-11-10 03:57:28 EST
From:  EyesAtNite Posted on: America Online

I agee! :)  Gimme more!!  Startin' wit a new CPU!

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  My Wish                               91-11-10 20:01:02 EST
From:  Korby Posted on: America Online

How about a version of Apple File Exchange for the IIgs?


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Korby -> AFE                          91-11-10 20:11:17 EST
From:  Jimig Posted on: America Online

won't be needed as soon as you have 6.0, since it will recognize Mac
HFS disks;  just stick in a formatted disk and drag your file across
(either way)!  Don't know if it'll format Mac HFS disks.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  AFE is evil...                        91-11-10 20:54:53 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

...you don't want it on your IIGS (it might give your other software
bad ideas).

The HFS FST will indeed format HFS disks (and they work just fine on
the Mac).

Tim (my opinions are my own) S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Even if                               91-11-11 05:18:21 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

the HFS FST didn't format disks, there is another program called QINIT
that does it.  It requires a shell to run though..

Andy..

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Tim S.,                               91-11-12 08:34:09 EST
From:  Jimig Posted on: America Online

Given 6.0,  can one attache the PowerBook 100 to it and have it appear
as another volume?  That might be a reason for me to downsize my
portable plans, and save some money.

I know the PB 100 is supposed to work that way with a Mac, but not the
140 & 170.  If I could just have a cable come out and attach to my
portable, then drag files from the GS, it would be very convenient.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Jimig...                              91-11-13 00:31:15 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

I have no idea if the PowerBook 100 can be attached to a IIGS and
recognized as though it were "just a hard drive".  I know we haven't
explicitly tested that in our neck of the woods and I don't have a
PowerBook to personally test it on...


Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  System 6.0 wishes                     91-11-13 23:07:44 EST
From:  Omega Man Posted on: America Online

- A small rIcon editor :) or maybee even a big one!

Alias's

Hows about this idea.. an Alias command that creates a dummy file that
uses an icon which attaches it to its real file. example:

You click on "AO.sys16" and choose make alias. then the finder creates
a file. that uses a special Icon which launches or "opens" "AO.sys16"
everytime its clicked. just like normal icons do.

well? what do you think? It could even be made by a third party
developer...

Emmanuel

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  The problem is...                     91-11-13 23:56:29 EST
From:  MegaUser Posted on: America Online

you could only access from the Finder. Without extensive OS support,
you couldn't access the file from within your apps---which is where you
usually want to often want to open them from...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  My wish                               91-11-16 18:32:32 EST
From:  Korby Posted on: America Online

When you double-click an icon, and it gives you the "can't find the
application" message, wouldn't it be nice if you'd be presented with a
dialog box that let you select the application, and then it would be
written to the icon file so it works every time.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Your wish is granted                  91-11-16 20:05:14 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

It's there :-)

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Wish/question                         91-11-17 01:19:40 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

My wish is that when I use AOL with my GS, running system 6 with the
HFS FST installed, that I may download Mac files without the files
losing their attributes, and having to thrash with ResEdit and such.

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  AOL and System 6...                   91-11-17 05:27:10 EST
From:  Spottysoft Posted on: America Online

Just a hunch... but I don't think that will work since the Apple II AOL
software wasn't written with the HFS.FST (or the IIgs unfortunately) in
mind (ie the Apple version of the software doesn't know what to do with
the Mac header  :()

It's only a hunch remember... :)


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Attributes                            91-11-18 05:58:16 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

I believe that ShrinkIt GS will handle .SIT files properly (other than
stuff in folders which it should since folder start and end records are
simple to interpret) and not loose the attributes..

I even managed to extract stuff that was in a folder once, but that was
a chore..

Try and DL a .SIT file, unpack it to an HFS disk, put the disk in a Mac
and see what you get..  I'd do it myself if I had a Mac available...

Andy..

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  SIT files and Apple II's              91-11-19 00:03:33 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

Yes, I know that ShrinkIt GS handles Stuffit files (1.51 and earlier
though), and that isn't the problem. The problem was that after
unpacking those files would have a PDOS creator and either a BIN or
scrambled filetype.


I was also at fault here: I thought the files here on AOL used
MacBinary headers.... I have since learned that, NOOOOOOO, AOL has a
special header which will make things difficult to unpack. I downloaded
AOL.TO.BIN (by Dave Lyons.... I think) and everything is good.

The other problem is that I don't have system 6 and the HFS FST to try
unpacking to an HFS disk.

Will someone with system 6 try this and let us know if ShrinkIt will
preserve the Mac attributes if unpacked to a HFS disk?

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  How about this...                     91-11-19 22:44:53 EST
From:  Korby Posted on: America Online

How about a way to reboot to a specific slot (i.e. for those of us with
a hard drive in slot 7 trying to boot a floppy.)


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Error handling                        91-11-20 21:06:21 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

One of the things I really hate about using Apples is all the crazy
error/system crashes. If the system can't be made more reliable, how
about at least explaining what the errors mean. It doesn't seem like
it's asking too much to change a "Error $27" to a "Disk is deffective"
(or something like that) from a company who prides itself on easy of
use.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  There...                              91-11-21 19:36:54 EST
From:  Surak TFF Posted on: America Online

is already a Window Manager call (_ErrorWindow, $620E) which will take
a GS/OS error code as input and display a dialog with descriptive text
about the error... All that is required is that programmers use it, I
would guess... :)

Dan

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Surak / errors                        91-11-21 21:16:09 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

But "I/O error" doesn't tell you what the problem is. Such a dialog
should say the disk is defective and to recover as many files as
possibel and then trash it.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  I agree..                             91-11-21 22:01:56 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

I/O errors could be more specific! :)

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Huh?                                  91-11-22 12:52:37 EST
From:  MikeW50 Posted on: America Online

> But "I/O error" doesn't tell you what the problem is. Such a > dialog
should say the disk is defective and to recover as many > files as
possibel and then trash it.

1.  GS/OS is relatively specific about it's errors.  If you choose to
support the (recently added) error messages, you can give something a
lot more specific than I/O error.

2.  "Recover as many files..."  Right.  :)  It would be nice, I
suppose, if every application built in a full set of disk maintenance
procedures, capable of recovering damaged files and magically fixing
broken disks, but I'm not holding my breath.  Did you have something
else in mind?  I am curious, but doing exactly what your words suggest
is not practical with current operating systems.

Mike Westerfield

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Mike                                  91-11-22 21:18:32 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

I wasn't thinking about adding a full set of disk utilities to every
program, but error messages should tell you how to fix/avoid/remedy the
problem. I/O errors should say your disk is F--ked and you need to
trash it. "Unable to establish memory block errors" should say you
should get some more RAM, kill some DA's, etc.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Again..                               91-11-22 22:52:48 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

RAM errors and errors from toolcalls and such can be intrepreted
however the programmer wants.  It's up to the programmer to take a 0201
memErr and tell the user to get more RAM and delete some DA's.

<<Jim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Error messages                        91-11-23 01:27:23 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

It's much easier to make mention in the manual, than have massively
verbose messages in the program itself (except for the new Finder :-).
Also, I believe the IIgs User's Manual (I know, who reads THAT)
mentions certain general error messages and what they mean to novice
users. I agree; it should be up to application authors to expound on
general errors (sounds like big government/small government debates,
eh?) jb


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Scrolling windows in the Finder       91-11-30 01:26:15 EST
From:  Ejpapl Posted on: America Online

If it's not too late I would like to suggest (Andy) could a feature be
put in to the new finder that when an icon is moved in the folder that
the window would scroll with it.  For example if I want to move a file
in a well filled folder from a folder the bottom of the list the screen
will not scroll the window so I can put the file in a  folder toward
the top.( I have to put the file on the desktop and scroll the folder
and then drag the icon from the desktop to the folder) I would be nice
if the window would scroll in the finder when moving and Icon. Thanks

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  sys6 wishes                           91-11-30 02:15:09 EST
From:  JayKrell Posted on: America Online

Scrolling windows with icon dragging is a good idea. As well as 'smart'
zoom (only as far as necessary).

Some things I'd like to see are GetHandleID and
DrawMenuBarNoMatterWhatCurResourceAppIs (MenuTime currently gets the
menu bar's handle's ID, and uses it for the CurResourceApp for
DrawMenuBar). I'm only partly joking here, as there is no
guaranteed-to-work, legal, documented way to refresh a menu bar that's
in resources from an external program in 5.0.4.

Return errors from inline GS/OS calls made from P8 on ROM 3.(even Byte
Works's Text Printer CDA was bit by this 'anomaly' in GS/OS)

Fix bugs in Std File: wrong volume and infinitely repeating files (I
assume these are fixed.)

SetFuncPtr for patching individual tool calls (in technote, run-time
lib or toolbox)

PatchE10000 (TN#87) in toolbox or run-time lib. (I don't think it'd
work in the toolbox, since it'd patch what it's called through.)

Also: MS-DOS FST, TextEdit horizontal scrolling and multiple rulers,
QuickDraw II support for other pixel depths, TrueType, Alias Manager,
HFS FST ports Mac apps on-the-fly, ROM upgrades to limit RAM patches
and boot time (Plus a free SuperDrive and SWIM card for all IIGS users,
since they're required to read MS-DOS disks.) (sorry for the horrible
humor)

Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Which part was humor?                 91-11-30 21:21:52 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

I've seen people rationally suggest all of that stuff.  :)

Unless it's an absolute emergency, it's way too late to be adding new
tool calls or features.  That's what "beta" means, after all.

It would be nice if the patch for GS/OS vectors under P8 is fixed for
inline calls, and I think it is, but it is after all the _programmer's_
responsibility to make sure that they don't make GS/OS calls if GS/OS
isn't available.  The system can't protect against every stupid thing a
programmer might do.

Running Mac programs on the fly is a ridiculous idea (nothing personal,
Jay) -- it's asking for complete Macintosh system software and 68000
family emulation on a 2.5 MHz IIgs.  This just isn't practical.  It's
like asking an Apple IIe with a superdrive card to automatically run
MS-DOS programs on-the-fly from MS-DOS disks -- the native processor
would have to have two or three times the basic speed of the target one
to do software emulation or it's just impractical.  Even accounting for
differences in instruction sets, you'd need a 10 MHz 6502 minimum to
successfully emulate a 10 or 12 MHz 80286 or 80386 in software.

(These are all my opinions, of course.)

ZoomWindow only zooms a window to the zoom rectangle, or to a default
of the entire screen if you don't supply the zoom rectangle.  It has no
way of knowing what your content area really is, so you have to tell it
the maximum size.  If you do that _now_, the system will work the way
you want it _now_.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  sys6 wishes                           91-12-02 21:41:10 EST
From:  JayKrell Posted on: America Online

The whole last block was humor. Some of it is feasible for the next
release (TextEdit horizontal scrolling and multiple rulers) and a ROM
upgrade would be feasible if Apple made a new GS. This would be like
ROM 3 having much of Sys 5 in ROM, but I knew the stuff was either
ridiculous or not in System 6.

I meant smart zoom in the _Finder_, like in Mac Sys 7. Yeah, I know no
one should call GS/OS from P8, but it's an easy fix and even Apple made
the mistake once. (others: the Font Manager in ROM 3 calls GS/OS w/o
checking OS_KIND, and NDA's also have to if they want to work when
AppleWorks 2.0 calls DeskStartup.)


Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Oh.                                   91-12-03 21:19:24 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Well, you didn't say that.  The Finder has some altered zoom logic, but
it's not like System 7.0.

We never guaranteed that all the desktop tools will work from P8, in
fact, we specifically say the Font Manager does _not_ work from P8,
although it now works a little better if the OS is busy when it's
started.

The AppleWorks thing is a bug in AppleWorks.  The answer is get the
free upgrade to 2.1 that Claris offered, and maybe still does.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Finder Info Bars                      91-12-03 23:02:04 EST
From:  Surak TFF Posted on: America Online

I wish that the Finder would display the KB/MB used in the current
directory instead of in the entire volume on the status bar... :)  This
way I could tell how much space was used in a directory without having
to do an Icon Info (which didn't work very well with an HFS volume - I
guess subdirectories take up a lot more space on them, because I did a
"Get Info" on a subdirectory, it told me there was 886K in the
directory, and I was still able to fit the contents of the directory on
an 800K floppy... :)

Dan

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Ejpapl...                             91-12-04 03:00:56 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

>> If it's not too late I would like to suggest (Andy) could a feature
be put in to the new finder that when an icon is moved in the folder
that the window would scroll with it.

Sorry, it's too late for a change of that magnitude.  It's something
the Mac System 7 Finder does, but it's NOT part of the IIGS System 6
Finder.  It'd be major-cool/useful if it was in there, but there just
isn't an infinite amount of time left in the schedule (so some of the
cool stuff won't be implemented or we'd never get it shipped).

Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Surak TFF...                          91-12-04 03:05:43 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

>> guess subdirectories take up a lot more space on them, because I did
a "Get Info" on a subdirectory, it told me there was 886K in the
directory, and I was still able to fit the contents of the directory on
an 800K floppy... :)


There is NOTHING unusual about what you saw!  I'm willing to bet you
copied the "886K" to a ProDOS floppy and that's why it fit.  ProDOS
will sparse files whenever possible, HFS does NOT.  That means moving a
file from HFS (or an AppleShare server) to a ProDOS disk can LEGALLY
make the file take up LESS disk space on the ProDOS volume than it did
on the HFS volume.

Without more details from you (such as whether or not the DESTINATION
disk was ProDOS or HFS), I do _NOT_ consider this to be a bug. 
Instead, it's a "user misunderstanding"...  To the best of my
knowledge, the Finder accurately calculates and displays the amount of
disk space used in a directory.  If you can prove otherwise, I want to
here from you ASAP!

Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  HFS -> ProDOS Volume                  91-12-04 18:55:35 EST
From:  Surak TFF Posted on: America Online

It was copied to a ProDOS volume (it was, in fact, the contents of the
:Install folder from the HFS partition of the CD-ROM :), so what you
said about the size makes sense... When you said "accurately display",
though, were you referring to the Icon Info display or to the window
information bars?

Dan

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Surak TFF                             91-12-05 00:34:00 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

>> ...were you referring to the Icon Info display or to the window
information bars?

I'm referring to both - if there's anywhere that the Finder is
incorrectly displaying information, I want to know about it ASAP.


Thanks, Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Which                                 91-12-05 01:52:40 EST
From:  Ron Basset Posted on: America Online

Which developer CD is System 6.0 (beta) on?  I have On a Clear Day You
Can CD Forever and the one before that...Desperately Seeking Seven.  Is
it on one of these or DEVELOP?

-Ron



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  It's not.                             91-12-05 18:10:51 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

It's not on a develop or monthly developer disc.  It's on it's own
disc, created and shipped specially to Apple II partners and associates
only.

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Folder sizes in window info bars      91-12-05 23:15:24 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

You'll notice that the Finder doesn't display the size for the contents
of folders in info window, either, unless you click the "Calculate"
icon.  That's because the information isn't quickly available for a
directory like it is for a volume.  If the Finder did this in window
info bars, it would have to take the time to make that calculation
every time you opened a window, which would be a bummer in the extreme.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Re: Scrolling window in Finder        91-12-06 22:31:15 EST
From:  James S WI Posted on: America Online

Doesn't the Apple Human Interface Guidlines, or whatever it is called,
say that a window should scroll when the mouse butin is down and the
mouse moves out of the window?  I am suprised this wan't in the Finder
from the begining. _____ James C. Smith ~

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  ROM 3 mouse problem                   91-12-07 02:19:13 EST
From:  JayKrell Posted on: America Online

I've read about this problem, but till today hadn't experienced it more
than twice in my two years owning a IIGS. I recently read specifically
how it works: the mouse locks up if you run an mouse-using 8-bit app
and then enter the CDA menu (unsure if you must enter from a desktop
app or not). I ran BASIC, typed PR#4, returned to a desktop app, and
all was fine. However, I recieved Proterm 3.0 today, which uses the
mouse, and _twice_ the mouse was disabled after returning from the CDA
menu after running PT3. I disabled all add-ons but NiftyList and
QuickConsole. This should all probably be posted elsewhere, but I put
it here to ask: Has this bug been diagnosed and fixed in System 6?

Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  problem found                         91-12-07 12:16:57 EST
From:  JayKrell Posted on: America Online

Thanks to GSBug and Nifty List, I found that the problem is that the
mouse mode is usually 7 for desktop apps. When you enter the CDA menu,
it is set to 0 and then restored upon exiting. For some reason, after
running PT3 (and apparently other apps), the mode is restored to 1
after exiting the CDA menu under a desktop app. Setting it to 7 from
Nifty List fixes it. I'll put this into the run queue in an NDA and it
should fix the problem.

Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Mouse mode                            91-12-08 23:11:27 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

The problem is more that you can't safely save and restore the mouse
mode, because ReadMouse accidentally returns a mode with a garbage high
byte, and SetMouse takes no action if you pass it an invalid value. 
So, "saving" and "restoring" really doesn't work on ROM 03.

Thanks to Seven Hills, who finally sent a small (less than 400K)
reproducible example, this is diagnosed and is fixed in 6.0.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Too late for 6.0                      91-12-09 23:05:39 EST
From:  BuTs Beast Posted on: America Online

...but how about for 6.1?

Buy Pointless from WestCode to incorporate TrueType into GS/OS as
standard equipment :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Yeah.                                 91-12-10 02:41:23 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

Given several million dollars, we could make every application in
existence part of the system software so no one would have to buy
anything.  Avoids all the guilt pangs of just pirating the stuff.

--Matt (in a cynical mood; nothing personal, Beast)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  SPEED                                 91-12-10 21:38:10 EST
From:  Professor6 Posted on: America Online

I have a quick question, is system 6 faster than 5.04 when executing
and quiting programs.  I've heard from some people that 6.0 is much
slower than 5.04.


Professor


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  :)                                    91-12-11 01:01:39 EST
From:  BuTs Beast Posted on: America Online

I didn't take it personally---I've already placed my order for
Pointless (and convinced several other people to pre-order where I
work). The reason I mentioned it is that TrueType WAS developed by
Apple, right? And it IS standard in Mac System 7, right? And it makes
the StyleWriter (and other Apple printers, for that matter) work much
better, right?

Hey, I'm not yelling at you guys. I'm just trying to rationally explain
my viewpoint. :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  BUT....                               91-12-11 02:07:35 EST
From:  Spottysoft Posted on: America Online

...if a third party can come up with something just as good, then A2DTS
can work on other stuff just as important... right??  :)

(see Matt.... I'm on your side sometimes... <grin> )



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Incorperating in Sys soft             91-12-11 03:53:26 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

Why not Matt? You do it on the Mac. (or does it just seem like  it
because no one writes Mac programs?)

List o things that seemed popular and weren't incorperated: MSDOS FST
MultiFinder TrueType

Of those things, the one I'd like to see the most is MultiFinder GS.
The Mac had it in Sys 6, I don't think it's asking to much to put it in
a GS sys software package. It's not even 200k on the Mac if I remember
correctly. And just to kill the argument before it starts, if you find
the GS (or your stock GS) incapable of doing anyhting complex due to
RAM or speed limits, JUST DON'T USE THE OPTION.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  it's not only speed                   91-12-11 14:51:56 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

Major portions of the GS toolbox would have to be rewritten and
reworked, and this would take mongo time.  Personally, I'd rather see
the engineers spend this time improving the software instead of trying
to devise a hack to allow half-assed multitasking which the tools were
never designed for.

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Smullen...                            91-12-11 20:43:15 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

>> I don't think it's asking to much to put it in a GS sys software
package...


Whoaaaa!  It _IS_ asking a lot because it requires a re-write of a
bunch of the toolbox (which currently isn't re-entrant).  So it _IS_
asking a lot (in terms of time to rewrite the toolbox, time to test it,
impact on applications that are broken as a result, etc).  It is, to
say the least, a non-trivial task...

Tim (my opinions are my own) S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  not to mention...                     91-12-11 21:16:53 EST
From:  M Wolfgram Posted on: America Online

That the problem that DAs have with tool startup would be infinitly
more complex because a DA would have to live across multiple
applications with a high probability of different tools active.  What
happens when an app hasn't started say standard file, so the DA does,
then the app changes to one that has.  If the DA shutsdown Standard
File you're dead (or soon will be :)  Even if the toolbox were updated,
a high probability exists that a lot of things would _not_ be upward
compatible!

Marc (My opinions don't put anyone at risk :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Not always so...                      91-12-11 23:46:16 EST
From:  Jim Murphy Posted on: America Online

Well, with the few months of experimentation I put into writing a
program switcher, there are quite a few nagging issues, but it's not
impossible. Firstly, the multitasking environment could obviously not
be preemptive. As Tim said, the toolbox isn't reentrant, but that's
really not an issue in my book. MultiFinder on the Macintosh (which
includes 7.0) switches contexts at well-defined times when certain
toolbox calls are made. Such calls as GetNextEvent and TaskMaster
should be regularly made by well-behaved desktop applications.

This is prime-time for a switcher/multifinder to grab control and
initiate a context switch. If system services aren't available at that
time, then the switcher can defer the context switch until a later
time. The use of the system BusyFlag prevents this reentrancy issue
from occuring under most normal conditions.

Marc's issue (hi Marc :-) of NDAs and such also really isn't an issue,
since under a given multitasking environment toolsets are generally
started up by the controlling switcher and never shut down. Yes, this
provides for increased memory usage, but it solves a myriad of
problems. There are obviously many more issues, but these two tend to
not even really register on my list of technical limitations.

Now that I've babbled on, what was the original question? :-)

Jim Murphy

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Interesting.                          91-12-12 23:20:19 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

But finding _when_ to do the context switch isn't nearly as complicated
as figuring out _how_ to switch contexts.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Whoaaaa nellie...                     91-12-13 02:20:51 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

As a IIGS user, I wouldn't accept a "multitasking" environment that
worked ONLY with desktop apps (so it could base its switching on
TaskMaster/GetNextEvent/etc).  I'd want it to work with whatever I use
- ORCA, Finder, HyperCard IIGS, games, whatever.  Not all of which even
use the desktop...

Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  why...                                91-12-13 23:22:27 EST
From:  AFA Parik Posted on: America Online

I don't understand -- I thought Finder and Hypercard GS were desktop
applications?  Do they directly access the mouse and keyboard or
something?

I wouldn't want to multitask games (most of them don't even seem to run
under ProDOS :); programmers [Orca, etc] have GNO for themselves. 
Although I would much prefer a pre-emptive multitasking system,
MultiFinder GS would be nice.  Just one suggestion -- the thing I HATE
about MultiFinder Mac (v6.x and below) is having other-app windows
still on the screen when in another program.  Y U C K!!!  I'm always
clicking in the wrong area of the screen and bringing up another
application to the foreground.  It wouldn't be too shabby to multitask
Platinum Paint GS, DreamGraphics, SynthLab ][ (grin), Finder 6.0, and
one of them Vitesse utility programs.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Parik missed the point...             91-12-13 23:32:28 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Parik,

How do you explain to a user that only SOME of their apps can be work
with a "multiFinder GS"?  Can you reliably teach all of them to predict
whether a new app will or won't work?

And I'm not talking about teaching a fellow power-user, I'm talking
about teaching somebody's Mom, or a third-grade teacher that hates
computers, or...


Tim S. (have you tried holding down the OPTION key as you move between
apps under Mac System 7's MultiFinder?  That hides, but doesn't quit,
the app you were in and eliminates the desktop clutter you complained
about.  There's a menu item for it as well under System 7.... 
Pre-System 7 users could get similar functionality via MultiFinder
6.1B9 which shipped with SADE.)


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Tim, how do you explain...            91-12-14 09:13:52 EST
From:  Jimig Posted on: America Online

to someone which Mac programs are compatible with system 7 and which
ones aren't? :)

"If it won't run Microsoft File v 1.0,  I don't want it." (This is very
close to what I frequently hear.)

My solution and recommendation is quit using the old stuff; not easy
but possible.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Nail on the head?                     91-12-14 10:55:20 EST
From:  MacFence Posted on: America Online

Jimig has a point. Maybe Apple just doesn't want a repeat of the
problems of Mac 7.0. Or maybe they believe deepdown that GS user's
really aren't the "power users" that would benefit from such an
environment. At any rate,thanks for the upcoming SYS 6.0. We appreciate
the effort.


Fenceman

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Stuff                                 91-12-15 00:02:59 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

On multitasking - I think ALL of you are missing the point. A
multifinder that works only with desktop programs is better than NO
multifinder. If someone deosn't understand the concept of multitask
w/multifinder (one of my teachers that uses Macs had a heart attack
when I reconfigured all her Macs to Multifinder, but back to the
point), then just don't use it. If you don't like the idea of something
that doesn't work with absolutely everything, then just don't use it.
Others would like to use it however, so let them....

Something else - I like those killer scroll bars on Mac Sys 7 . Could
you possibly do a scrollbar like sys 7's except proportional, instead
of the Mac's square, scrollbar? That would be just too cool. Sys 7 has
truely cool scroll bars..

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Lets go for something ez...           91-12-15 01:53:51 EST
From:  Ron Basset Posted on: America Online

Let's press Apple for something EASY for them to program ["EASY" being
a relative term ;) ].

I imagine Apple could whip up a MS-DOS FST in a very short amount of
time given that user is using a SuperDrive.... so let's move our
energies to something easily attainable in the NEAR future....

-Ron


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Smullen...                            91-12-15 05:13:19 EST
From:  Spottysoft Posted on: America Online

While those "others" may like having a GS-MultiFinder around, I'm quite
sure they are relatively few in number.  So it doesn't make a whole lot
of sense to have the Green System Software group beat their brains out,
with what limited resources they have, trying to produce something
which only a few IIgs owners really would benefit from.

I'm not saying I don't want a GS-MultiFinder.  It'd be great.  But I'd
rather see things being done that can be of benefit to ALL IIgs (and
8-bit II) owners.

Gotta have some priorities.....



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  MS-DOS FST                            91-12-15 22:47:52 EST
From:  JayKrell Posted on: America Online

An MS-DOS FST would be used by very few people since it requires the
SWIM card and a SuperDrive.

I just realized, that like the HFS, Pascal, and DOS 3.3 FST's, Apple
has also long had much of the code for an MS-DOS FST. It's in Apple
File Exchange. I don't know what's involved in bringing it over to the
IIGS, however.


Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  ms-dos on 3.5" drives                 91-12-15 23:25:41 EST
From:  GNO Tim Posted on: America Online

what's all this about ms-dos needing the superdrive card? I'm most
definately not an expert in this subject, but this argument has been
going for awhile on the internet. I believe the consensus was that a
normal apple 3.5 can read ms-dos. Supposedly the pc transporter could
use standard apple 3.5 drives...unless I misunderstood something. I
admit I don't have a pc transporter and i know nothing about ms-dos
disk formatting.

-tim

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Apple 3.5" drive and MS-DOS           91-12-16 01:05:36 EST
From:  James S WI Posted on: America Online

I, also, am not an expert on the subject but here is what I think I
know. :)

The Apple 3.5" drive CAN read MS-DOS disks when pluged into the
PC-Transporter becuse it is a "dumb" drive and can do almost anything
with the right controler and software.  The problem is the drive can
NOT read a MS-DOS disk when the drive is pluged into the GS even if you
have a PC-Transporter.  MS-DOS disks use MFM encoding and the controler
in the GS cann't do MFM.  The PC-Transporter can get the Apple drive to
read MFM but not the controler in the GS.  So me best gues is a
"normal" (not super) Apple 3.5" drive will be able to read MS-DOS disks
if you have an MS-DOS FST and a new SWIM controler.

So who can conferm or rip apart my babaling? _____ James

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Stuff                                 91-12-16 04:15:30 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

James:  Sounds pretty close to me.  My understanding is that if you
have a proper controller card, you can get the Apple 3.5 Drive to read
720K MS-DOS 3.5" disks.  The built-in SmartPort will not do it, and the
Apple 3.5 Drive will not read 1.4 MB disks no matter how hard you try.

Jay:  Baloney.  (See?  I'm back to my normal tactful self.  <grin>) 
Apple File Exchange is not an FST proving ground.  It does not read
Apple II Pascal disks.  It does not read DOS 3.3 disks.  It uses the
Macintosh OS so it has no HFS file-system specific code in it.  What it
has are routines to read files from ProDOS and MS-DOS disks, but these
routines are far more specialized than the needs of a complete file
system translator.  (If it was that easy, AFE would long ago have been
turned into a Macintosh MS-DOS FST, since the Macintosh OS does allow
external file systems, but you'll notice that hasn't happened.)

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  need some help...                     91-12-19 20:21:36 EST
From:  LLogan Posted on: America Online

I'm using a mac 2mb 3.5 disk drive with my GS and I'm wodering why the
PCT will not read anything off that drive. Also, does anyone know of
any drivers for the 1.6mb 3.5 Sony drives that can be used under GS/OS?
Is there any way I can get a copy of the AE drivers used on their 1.6
mb drives?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  also...                               91-12-19 20:51:41 EST
From:  LLogan Posted on: America Online

I'm really happy to hear about 6.0, now if we can only get it before
christmas... BTW, will there be a driver in 6.0 to handle the mac 1.6mb
drive? If so, will it be to my benifit to wait for it?

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  1440k drives (1.4 mb, not 1.6 :)      91-12-19 22:21:49 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

The Apple II SuperDrive card should be out real soon now.  It's not too
too expensive either (In my opinion, it would probably be worth it if
you HAD to have a 1440k, 1.4mb superdrive).  This card is required to
use Apple 1440k drives with the GS, and should work with both 5.0 and
6.0.

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  LLogan...                             91-12-20 02:40:35 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

>> now if we can only get it before christmas...


You can't, so start pressing Santa for the next item on your list... 
;-)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Why 1.4?                              91-12-20 19:41:59 EST
From:  LLogan Posted on: America Online

Why is it the disks only do 1.4 when the drives are 2mb? and the disks
you use are also 2mb? Also, why 1.44 istead of 1.6 for gs? (800k x 2)
Not before christmas? :( You're breaking my heart! Say it ain't so! So,
I need the superdrive controller card for the mac drive, eh? hmm... now
I need to figure out whether it'd be worth it...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Disk/drive capacity                   91-12-20 20:29:41 EST
From:  LL AndyW Posted on: America Online

The "1.6" and "2" meg capacities are UNFORMATTED capacity. In other
words, that's the TOTAL number of 8 bit bytes that can be stuffed on
the disk.

When you start adding stuff like track/sector/side information, along
with sync and timing gaps (enough room for the OS to have time to be
ready for the next chunk of info), the amount of FORMATTED data area
available gets cut down real fast.

The same thing occurrs with hard drives.  For instance, a 20m drive
usually has an unformatted capacity of about 26m (and sometimes more
depending on the manufacturer of the drive).

Andy...

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Capacities                            91-12-21 00:08:29 EST
From:  Mark TMM Posted on: America Online

also depend on record formatting and speed.  The "normal" 3.5 disks
when used with PCs only hold 720K, the Apple mechanisms vary the disk
speed so they can hold 800K.  The high density drives seem somewhat
more designed to be PC compatible also so that may be why Apple set
them up to do a multiple of 720K rather than 1600K. Mark

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  disk cap/AFE                          91-12-31 22:22:54 EST
From:  JayKrell Posted on: America Online

1.4 (1.44?) MB instead of 1.6 in Apple's high density drive is due to
switching from the encoding method that (as far as I know) only Apple
was using (GCR, NRZI) in the 400 and 800K drives to the 'standard',
less dense, MFM encoding method used in IBM compatibles.

Could a driver be written to read MFM encoded disks using the Apple 3.5
drive and the regular port?

Matt D: I didn't mean the code to read DOS 3.3 and Pascal was in AFE,
but that Apple had it. ie - In the original source code to those OS's
(Apple does keep the source code, doesn't it?). As I said, I don't know
what't involved in making an FST from those routines, so I'll take your
word that it's not easy.

Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  6.0                                   92-01-20 14:16:56 EST
From:  MarkG56422 Posted on: America Online

Well, January is almost gone, any new release estimates??

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Not coming from Apple...              92-01-21 03:29:15 EST
From:  NiteEyes1 Posted on: America Online

No estimates will be coming from Apple or the employees (Matt DTS,
A2Pro Tim, Shrinkit, Dave Lyons), but maybe someone would like to
speculate as to when the release will be.

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Release dates...                      92-01-21 04:20:57 EST
From:  LumiTech Posted on: America Online

A little bird flew by today...asked it when will 6.0 be released. 
According to this flighty litte fellow, there is no official release
date, but if he had to guess, END OF MARCH!

No big deal.  If this is true, were just waiting for something that
will be that much better.

LumiTech

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  If..                                  92-01-21 21:02:47 EST
From:  Surak TFF Posted on: America Online

If I had to guess (and I am obviously guessing right now :), I'd say
probably sometime in March.... I doubt it's even gone Golden Master
yet, and, even if it has, the packaging and other stuff still takes
quite a bit of time for such a major upgrade...

Dan

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  A dream...                            92-01-21 21:33:38 EST
From:  AFA Jay Posted on: America Online

Believe it or not, I had a dream about System 6 :)  I forget what
exactly it had to do with System 6...but I DO remember, in my dream,
the date that it was released.  I distinctly remember it was January
24th.  That's this Friday...I seriously doubt it, but hey, it was in my
dream (not like they've ever come true or anything) :)

Jay


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  golden master                         92-01-21 21:35:26 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

If it went GM, I think a) everyone would find out and spread the news,
and b) the manuals would already be ready.  Since this won't be for
maybe a month at the least, "I don't think it's even gone GM yet" is a
very stable statement to make :)  As you're probably 99.9999% right, as
it won't be for awhile until then..

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Manuals                               92-01-22 00:19:18 EST
From:  Mark TMM Posted on: America Online

Actually I'd think manuals would be the easy part.  They're just there
to document how the new system is SUPPOSED to work.  Not anything that
keep it from doing so or delay its release. Mark

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  End of MARCH!!???!                    92-01-22 02:39:19 EST
From:  Paladin100 Posted on: America Online

God help us if it's released on April 1st!


:->

Phil


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  April 1st...                          92-01-23 01:27:07 EST
From:  LumiTech Posted on: America Online

April 1st doesn't worry me half as much as Jay's dream...God, what if
his dream was January 24, 199_3_!

LumiTech

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Oof...                                92-01-23 04:13:36 EST
From:  NiteEyes1 Posted on: America Online

MARCH?!?!?  Dang.  While I understand it is a major upgrade, the thing
that bothers me is that not only will new stuff probably not be put in
but just increased stability (don't get me wrong...I just like new
stuff as well as stability:) ) and that some of the major upgrade stuff
that should have been put in wasn't, like a new LaserWriter driver and
horizontal scrolling in TextEdit and a horizontal scroll bar for Finder
2.0 in list mode and MidiSynth.  Oh well... It sounds good anyway, but
I wish it were here by at latest mid-February!

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Next thing ya know....                92-01-24 01:39:22 EST
From:  Spottysoft Posted on: America Online

...everyone will be saying the sky's falling.  :)

They'll release the thing when it's done... not before or long after.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Always someone                        92-01-24 14:47:18 EST
From:  MarkG56422 Posted on: America Online

There is always someone that has to say "It will be done when its done"
or "It will get here when it gets here", like they've never been
anxious for some-thing or another at one time time in their life. I
have two kids and a growing business that I am eternally patient with,
if I want to be impatient with 6.0, DARN IT, I'll be impatient with
(and vocal) about system 6.0 ! However I have no doubt that it will be
well worth the wait :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  $$$                                   92-01-24 20:59:56 EST
From:  Korby Posted on: America Online

I just hope I can afford to download the entire thing!  It sounds
pretty big.  Maybe AOL could let us all DL it for free :)

Korby

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Getting System 6.0                    92-01-25 12:13:06 EST
From:  GregB43 Posted on: America Online

When it's released, how hard would it be for our Users Group to get a
copy.  We only have one Apple dealer withing about 75 miles, and
getting new system software from them is about next to impossible.

GregB43



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Re: Getting 6.0                       92-01-25 13:51:27 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

Well, if you're an Apple-registerd Apple II user group you should get
it in the mail.  If not, you can always download it from AOL..

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Getting 6.0...                        92-01-26 09:55:08 EST
From:  A Humanist Posted on: America Online

Or, you user group could encourage the members to spring the $40-$50 to
buy the package and get the manuals.  I'm going to buy it just to give
Apple a message.  If 20,000 people bought it, that might convince them
Apple ][ people are willing to buy product

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Great idea                            92-01-27 14:27:43 EST
From:  TimMac Posted on: America Online

I agree totally with the above, rather than getting the "free" upgrade
through a ug or spending beaucoup bucks to download six disks full, we
could all send Apple a powerful message about the iigs by purchasing it
at our local dealer.  It would prove to them in a graphic way that
there's still life left in the ii line.  That alone is worth $40 or so
of my $$.  In addition from what I've read, with all the new features a
manual would be helpful.  the latest I've heard is Valentines day and
it looks like it was worth waiting for. Tim McNair

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Ditto                                 92-01-27 20:27:16 EST
From:  MarkG56422 Posted on: America Online

Great idea! The 25 or 30% (6 disks) that you would save dl'ing it
doesn't sound like much when you start thinking about having a manual
to refer to. Good time to send a message to Apple.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  User Groups & 6.0...                  92-01-28 02:19:07 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Most Apple User groups have signed an agreement with Apple's Software
Licensing group that authorizes that user group to distribute IIGS
System Software.  Right now, that agreement covers 5.0.4 (cuz 6.0 ain't
released yet cuz it ain't done yet).  If I understand the process
correctly (and I think I do, but if you want to 100% certain truth,
contact Software Licensing yourself) then when 6.0 is released,
Software Licensing will likely send an addendum to licensed user groups
- the groups sign and return the addendum and then they're authorized
to distribute 6.0.

Please note that I made no mention of how the user groups are supposed
to get master disks - I don't handle that part of the operation, so I'm
not sure what exactly will transpire, but I'm certain that between
Software Licensing and Apple's User Group Connection folks, it will be
pretty clear what a group needs to do to get master disks...


Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Out of touch                          92-01-28 18:16:18 EST
From:  Emmet2 Posted on: America Online

Obviously I am more out of touch than I thought... last I heard we
could expect the new system software to ship shortly after the new year
(that was about as long ago as it is till April 1) ... good lord, I am
getting impatient ...

Aon daonach amhain. Live free or die. Granite

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  System 6.0 wishq                      92-01-31 01:05:45 EST
From:  Locutus04 Posted on: America Online


What I like to see is a IBM.FST.  And it to come out soon!!!  Also I
would like some kind of update to ProDos 8 that would alow low case
charters.

-Locutus02 --Locutus04

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Hmm...                                92-01-31 19:19:15 EST
From:  Surak TFF Posted on: America Online

Well, neither of those two things is going to happen in System 6... Too
bad... :)

Dan

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Well what about.....                  92-02-01 00:35:24 EST
From:  Locutus04 Posted on: America Online



What about a CDEV like on the Mac that will alow disk.SHK's to be
mounted on the desk top.  (I thought it would be a good idea) :/  And
for it to come out soon. :)   Oh I know one more thing, how about about
FileSharing like on the Mac.  Now that would give the //GS a boost!!!
:)

-Locutus02 --Locutus04


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Knowing Apple                         92-02-01 00:42:49 EST
From:  Smullen Posted on: America Online

This will end up like System 7 being released a year or more after it
was supposed to be released.  What about the hardware stuff too?
(SuperDrive, Ethernet) Are they holding that up for Sys 6?  With the
attitude "it'll be done when it's done," it'll never get done.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  One said date...                      92-02-01 04:48:32 EST
From:  NiteEyes1 Posted on: America Online

I heard February 15 from LRO...

It's possible that previously unseen features will make their way to
the release version, though not to say they were made on the spot, but
they had been planned all along but they weren't finsihed for beta.

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  System 7 / FDHD                       92-02-01 13:18:41 EST
From:  AFC DYAJim Posted on: America Online

FYI, the SuperDrive card has been out for like 3-4 months.  And I think
the Mac users had just a _slightly_ longer time (umm, by a year or
more?) to wait for their System 7 from when Apple announced it to them.

<<Jim


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  System 6.0 and the IIGS               92-02-01 13:51:02 EST
From:  GregB43 Posted on: America Online

OK, some of you missed my point back there.  Buying it gets to be a bit
hard as our local Apple dealer has very little to do with Apple II
stuff.  From what I heard, get the 5.0.4 update out of them was next to
impossible.  (They did get it, but not until it was out a couple of
months.)

As for Apple doing something more with the Apple II line if they sell
lots of copies of System 6, its highly doubtful they will.  I had a
friend working for Apple a while back, and from the info I got from
him, the people at Apple can't understand why we'd want an Apple IIGS
when there's all these nice fast Macs around.  They just don't and
probably won't ever understand that there are those of us that like the
way the Apple II's operate far better than the Macs.

I know that I am not going to spend any money on the System 6 software.
 I've just about given up spending any money on my IIGS.  It's not
worth it.  I just look at what new system software will do for me, and
it doesn't look to be much.  Will it bring out new software for the GS?
 Highly doubtful.  Will it bring out some new software incompatibilites
that companies won't spend the money to fix?  Highly probable.

Tomorrow (Feb. 2nd) it will be eight years since I first bought an
Apple //e.  In the time since then, with getting a GS, and selling my
//e, I figure I've put over $6000 into my current computer system...and
where am I at?  I've got a computer that very little decent software
comes out for.  I looked at inCider's list of the 150 new software
titles for the Apple // line that came out last year, and there was one
or two that I'd CONSIDER buying.  With options like that, I've had to
start looking at getting what will probably end up being an Amiga, or
an ms-dos machine.  An overpriced Mac is out of the question.  There's
no way I'm going to have anything to do with Apple and the Macintosh
after the way I've been treated as an Apple // owner.

The only fix for the Apple IIGS is a faster machine, and better
graphics to support new software.  And Apple Computer Inc. is the only
company that can do that.  And if you believe Apple is going to do
something like that, I've got some nice, warm year-round, ocean front
property up here in ND to sell you.  (Come on Apple, make me eat my
words.)

Apple II Forever!!

Macintosh Never!!!

GregB43

PS.  Sorry to ramble on so much, but I really needed to get this off my
chest.



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  New features...                       92-02-02 19:23:07 EST
From:  NiteEyes1 Posted on: America Online

Looks like I was right!  There is a new edition to System 6.0!!  If
anyone here hasn't heard yet, MidiSynth is going to be on the release
of 6.0!  Cool!  A2ProTim can confirm this - he wrote the article where
it was first publicized.

Ohhhhhh BOY! NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Hmm...                                92-02-03 18:57:46 EST
From:  Surak TFF Posted on: America Online

Wonder when they found time to finish the MidiSynth toolset in between
all those other things they were doing... :)   Is synthLAB (1.0?) going
to be with it as well, or not...

Dan

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Smullen...                            92-02-04 03:29:29 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

>> What about the hardware stuff too? (SuperDrive, Ethernet) Are >>
they holding that up for Sys 6?  With the attitude "it'll be >> done
when it's done," it'll never get done.

Hate to break it to you, but the SuperDrive card's been shipping for
some time now...  Kind of hard to accuse it of being held back until
System 6 is done if it's shipping _BEFORE_ System 6... :-)


Tim (just a thought) S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Surak TFF...                          92-02-04 03:32:36 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Check out the lead article in the Feb issue of A2-Central.  You'll
discover that both MIDI Synth and synthLAB are indeed part of System
6.0.   :-)


Tim (whaddya mean ya don't have the Feb issue of A2-Central?) S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  640 mode...                           92-02-04 04:55:52 EST
From:  NiteEyes1 Posted on: America Online

Is it possible to make 640 mode do more than 4 pure colors?  I read
something somewhere that sort of implied Apple was trying to do this. 
Could it only be done through hardware?

For those asking why this question is in this folder- If it can be
done, I hope it can be a part of System 6.0!!

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  640 mode, sure...                     92-02-04 11:20:47 EST
From:  GNO Team Posted on: America Online

Sure, by assigning a different palette to each scan-line, in the same
way as 256 and 3200 color pictures.  However, because of the way
640-mode palettes work, it's a little more difficult to keep all the
palettes arranged correctly. As far as System 6.0, it really has no
reason to support use of multiple palettes; multiple palettes are
rarely enough used that applications are responsible for them. jawaid


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Tim, if it is shipping                92-02-04 18:52:24 EST
From:  NealS6 Posted on: America Online

it sure isn't on my current price list from Apple.  Where is it
shipping?  Only 3.5 controller card listed is the old one with the same
old part number and it is marked as only needed for IIe.  Not bashing
etc. just want one.  Can you give us the part number or make sure that
it is posted in the new product section of AppleLink etc.

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  640 colors                            92-02-05 00:04:19 EST
From:  JayKrell Posted on: America Online

In fact, 640 mode can display up to 3200 colors at a time, but with
great restrictions - 16 to a line like in 320 mode, plus each pixel can
only be one of 4 of the 16 in that line. Basically, it's not practical.

Actually, more than 4 pure colors is practical. Look at the menu in the
far left of most applications. I think those are pure as the menu bar
has a different palette than the rest of the screen.

I believe System 6 offers some new QuickDraw calls to ease the use of
16 colors in 640 mode via dithering. System 5 allows this, but I think
System 6 makes it easier. This conjecture is based on my fuzzy memory
of the list of tool call _names_ I got out of GSBug. I think one was
called Set640Color or something like that.

Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  P8 lowercase                          92-02-05 00:07:48 EST
From:  JayKrell Posted on: America Online

I'd also like to see lowercase letters in ProDOS 8 file names. I see no
reason why they're not allowed. If you change the directory with a
block editory, BASIC.system displays normally disallowed characters
just fine. Even if the lowercase letters aren't put in the filename
directly, at least BASIC.system could read the bits GS/OS sets to get
the case of letters.

Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Neal...                               92-02-05 00:40:14 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Yeah, I'll dig up the part number for ya when I get to work tomorrow.

The product name throws most folks off (it's REAL similar to that name
used for the old UniDisk controller card).  And it is listed (for some
reason) as being mostly for the IIe (since the old Unidisk card is gone
if I recall correctly) since the ONLY benefit to putting on in a IIGS
is supprt for 1.4 meg floppies.

Putting it in a IIe lets you use 800K and/or 1.4 meg floppies, so it's
positioned mostly as a IIe solution.  It's not my product, so
positioning's not up to me...  :-)

I think I posted the part number over in AHW some time ago...

Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  re:  P8 lowercase...                  92-02-05 00:43:36 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

>> I see no reason why they're not allowed.


This was explained in massive detailed many moons ago.  Hopefully in
this topic or one near by.  Dig around a little and you should be able
to find it (I believe MattDTS posted it).


Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  System 6.0 Conference log...          92-02-05 22:32:29 EST
From:  AFL GaryJ Posted on: America Online

Just a note to anyone who is interested:  The conference log from last
night's event on System Software 6.0 (with special guests Tim Swihart,
Dave Lyons, Andy Nicholas, and Matt Deatherage) is now available in our
software library.

Gary


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Updated Printer driver for 6.0?       92-02-06 00:58:48 EST
From:  LumiTech Posted on: America Online

I'm not sure if this has been asked for yet, but, Apple's printer
driver is v4.1 on 5.04.  Any plans on upgrading this driver for 6.0?

LumiTech

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Lumi...                               92-02-06 03:04:54 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

WHICH printer driver are you referring to?  There are several in 5.0.4
(and one more than several in 6.0).  There's an ImageWriter printer
driver, a LaserWriter printer driver, a generic "Epson" printer driver,
and (in 6.0) a StyleWriter printer driver.  Which one are you trying to
find out if it's been updated and SPECIFICALLY what sort of an "update"
are you looking for?


Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Updated drivers...                    92-02-06 23:34:26 EST
From:  NiteEyes1 Posted on: America Online

I think LumiTech is talking about the ImageWriter driver :).  I think
there was an update to 4.2 which just fixed some bugs, though I'm not
sure.  The question was asked earlier I believe  a few messages back. 
Good luck in your quest for the perfect ImageWriter driver :).

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  type of driver...                     92-02-07 02:57:39 EST
From:  LumiTech Posted on: America Online

You know, late at night visions of sugar plums dance in your head.  I
knew as soon as I signed off what your response would be.

NiteEyes is right...the IW2 driver.  I have been carrying on now for
quite awhile in another folder, about available IW2 printer drivers,
that some are better suited for graphics, while others are better
suited for text.  To date, I have not found one (without 'flaws') that
can do both well.

With the advent of DTP, a driver to print both text AND graphics well
is sorely needed (at least on the IW).  My question is in regards to
this...

I did go back through this folder (all 363 messages) and scanned the
previous posts regarding the IW2 driver.  My version on System 5.04 is
v4.1.  Now my question again, are you planning an update to the _IW_
printer driver?  There was much dialogue on this beginning back in May
of last year, but an answer I never found.

Thanks for eliminating those damn sugar plums...

LumiTech

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Available features...                 92-02-09 04:31:09 EST
From:  NiteEyes1 Posted on: America Online

First question:

Is the thermometer still there when booting?  The new splash screen
doesn't change that does it?

Second question :) :

Is there a complete list of features avialable before System 6 is
released, for those of us who like to druel?  I wonder if an Apple
employee could say something since the feature set is supposedly now
frozen...

Thanks, NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Printer driver...                     92-02-09 04:33:11 EST
From:  NiteEyes1 Posted on: America Online

The more I think about it, LumiTech, the more I believe that Apple is
not going to do anything major with their IW driver.  They made it work
fast and simple to use, at long last:).  I personally don't expect
anything special besides bug fixes.  The days of driver wars are over
since they got it right...

NCP

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  NiteEyes....                          92-02-09 23:19:28 EST
From:  AFL GaryJ Posted on: America Online

We had a couple of conferences on System 6.0, and many of the new
features were discussed during the chat.  You might check out the
conference logs (in our library).  The last one we had was just last
week (02/04/92) and the one before that was back in September
(09/10/91).   I think we'll see some more info on it as time goes on. 
But that's what is available in the meantime.

Gary


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Detailed list of 6.0 features...      92-02-10 02:04:20 EST
From:  A2Pro Tim Posted on: America Online

Check out the Feb '92 issue of A2-Central - it has a very long article
that goes into the vast majority of what's new and what's improved in
6.0.  If you don't have a subscription to A2-Central, then as soon as
you finish flogging yourself for not having a subscription, call them
at 913-469-6502 and order that issue (back issues are two bucks each). 
While you've got them on the phone, order a year or two's subscription.

By the way, that article in A2-Central was written by an Apple employee
who's "closely connected" with System 6.0 so there's some "new"
information in there that wasn't previously publicly announced...  :-)


Tim S.


Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  IW driver                             92-02-11 00:15:30 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

There are minor bug fixes to the ImageWriter driver (and the LQ
driver), but no major functionality changes.  Specifically, for those
of you who I know will ask, the color mapping scheme has not changed.

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Thanks!                               92-02-12 18:59:30 EST
From:  NiteEyes1 Posted on: America Online

Thanks guys! :)



Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  new control wish                      92-02-13 00:14:28 EST
From:  JayKrell Posted on: America Online

One thing I've long wanted, and I don't know that System 6 doesn't have
it, is that little up/down arrow control the Mac has, like in the color
picker.

Jay

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Maybe new folder?                     92-02-15 11:45:30 EST
From:  Matt DTS Posted on: America Online

I think we may be misleading some people with the title of this folder;
it would be like calling it "5.0.4" wish list.

True, 6.0 isn't released yet, but it's way, way too late to add any new
features to it.  Unless something that gets mentioned here is already
included, it's not going to make it for 6.0.

I don't mind the discussion, but I want to set some reasonable
expectations.  :)

(Jay -- that control isn't included in 6.0.)

--Matt

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  topic                                 92-02-15 14:15:01 EST
From:  GNO Tim Posted on: America Online

How about "System 6.1 wish list"? :)

Path: Operating Systems/System 6.0 Wish List

Subj:  Re: System 6.1 wish list?             92-02-20 10:54:00 EST
From:  MikeW50 Posted on: America Online

My wish for system 6.1 is that the management team at Apple lets the
Apple II folks do one!  Beyond that, I'll be happy with whatever we
get.  Like an MS-DOS FST, maybe?  :)

Mike Westerfield