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From: erkyrath@netcom.com (Andrew Plotkin)
Subject: Re: Hugo vs. TADS/Inform
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:24:09 GMT
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Julian Arnold (jools@arnod.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> > In fact, I wonder if you shouldn't just write a Hugo-to-Inform source 
> > file translator... if you avoid all the IF-specific parts of Inform, and 
> > just generate more-or-less C code, you wouldn't be stuck with any of the 
> > quirks of Inform as an IF system.

> But, this all assumes we want to adopt the Z-machine as the "ultimate"
> standard for portable IF gamefiles.  While I agree that a standard is
> desirable, the Z-machine is not it.

> I realise it would be a lot easier to use a format that is already well
> documented and defined, and from this point of view, the Z-machine is
> probably the best choice.  But, the format itself imposes strict limits
> on such things as numbers of properties and attributes, and gamefile
> size.  Hugo's gamefiles are limited too, I think, but not to such a
> degree.  AFAIK (not especially far) TADS' .GAM file would be the best
> existing format to choose as a standard.

Except that nobody knows what it is. :-)

> What I'm saying is that while it would be nice if Hugo could ultimately
> produce Z-code, in that this would allow Hugo authors to reach as wide
> an audience as Inform authors, and, as Andrew says above, would make
> things easier for all concerned regarding backwards compatibility and
> "staying up-to-date", it's probably more worthwhile to spend the effort
> that would be required to convert Hugo (and others?) to produce Z-code,
> to define a new format, which takes advantage of modern hardware, and
> convert everything to use that.  Of course, this would take
> significantly more effort, but in the long term would be worth it.

> And no, I'm not offering to take the job on (for a start, I can't).

Ok, I shall pre-emptively come clean. I have plans for such a thing. (My 
last standards proposal fell flat, but this one shall take over the 
world! Mwa ha ha ha <wheeze>!)

Obviously I can't start spending serious time on it until the GUA CD is 
finished (or at least into its final downhill run.) But it's something I 
think about in scraps of spare time. Yesterday, for example, I missed my 
highway exit while contemplating how to arrange addressing modes, and had 
to pay an extra $1 toll and get lost for half an hour in downtown 
Baltimore trying to get back. See? I *do* make sacrifices for IF.

It's a shitload of work. I will not count such a thing as "ready for 
release" until I have:
(1) A complete spec document
(2) Portable interpreter source for a terminal-style interface
(3) A working Mac interpreter with a MaxZip-style interface
(4) Source code for a new back end to Inform, which will allow Inform to
compile to this new format from existing .inf files.

So don't hold your breath.

By the way, I strongly recommend that any compiler authors read the new 
inform604_technical_manual.txt. (The tech manual, not the designer's 
manual.) It has a great deal of lucid commentary on exactly how Inform 
works, both front end and back end. Before I read it, (4) was a pipe 
dream of mine. Now it's a serious possibility.

--Z

(Just for the record: yes, I have *really strong opinions* about how this 
thing will be designed. So don't bother emailing me with suggestions. 
It's too early anyway; I would forget them all before I seriously started 
working on the project. Which, as I said, won't be until after the GUA 
project.)

-- 

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."
