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From: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Subject: Re: Free CDTV
Message-ID: <1991Jun25.013759.24853@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
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Reply-To: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Organization: Columbia University
References: <14234@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> <1991Jun24.143041.30970@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> <14251@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1991 01:37:59 GMT

In article <14251@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes:
>In article <1991Jun24.143041.30970@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>>	Whine...
>
>Of course, this is .advocacy, right?
>
	Right you are! 8)

>>	Whine...  We keep saying (here and elsewhere) that we are
>>the best salesmen for the Amiga that Commodore has had.
>
>Yeah, we are.  But exactly what does this say more about, our salesmanship,
>or Commodore's lack thereof?
>
	We already know what it says. It has been rehashed here
MORE than enough times. Commodore's US marketing is not large
enough to effectively cover the country. That doesn't change the
fact that this IS a good idea, all told.

>>Commodore
>>CAN'T teach every Macys, etc., outlet how to market the CDTV.
>
>Why not?  They hire a hundred people, each one goes to a separate city and
>holds a training seminar.  If the cost of this is deferred for six months,
>the program will more than pay for itself.
>
	Yes, they could have a hundred people do this. If those
people only wanted $1,000 each for the weekend, that would be
$100,000. But you are assuming that these people at Macy's WANT
to be trained. The stores aren't very interested and the salesmen
couldn't care less.

>For those places missed by such an effort, video training tapes are made,
>and deals are struck with managements, etc.
>
	As above. First, you have to get the salesman to watch
the tape. Then, you have to get him to actually make an effort.
I'd think that a users group member would be more "enthusiastic",
personally.

>Cmdre has, what, six months to take a significant market share before CD-I
>arrives?  If this is Cmdre's best, we/they are in a bit more trouble than
>I had thought.
>
>>Since when do those stores know anything about electronics
>>anyway.
>
>Let me give you an example that Leo gave last Thursday at Badge.  Seems that
>he went in to a Macy's outlet and they had a CDTV on the floor.  Nobody knew
>anything about it except that "the sound quality sucked, so why bother."  Of
>course, that's because they had it hooked up to a TV's internal speakers...
>[Well, it went something like that, anyway]
>
>I'm not asking for a miracle here, but it seems to me that folks in the Bay Area
>are going to be one of the better markets, and it would be nice if they
>would come with SOMETHING that tells them how to hook the thing up, and
>SOMEBODY to force them to deal with the situation.  CDTV is cool when
>demonstrated by someone like Leo, and B-o-r-i-n-g when demoed by the staff
>at the local Amiga dealership.

	That's why they want to put users group members in there!
>
>>	The idea is to have us actually go down to the store and
>>explain things. If people are willing to do it, is there a reason
>>Commodore shouldn't take advantage of it? If you think the people
>>who do it are stupid, that is one thing. Calling Commodore stupid
>>for using practically free marketing is, of itself, stupid.
>
>No, I'm calling Commodore stupid mostly because I don't USE the language
>which would have to be employed to adequately express the situation :)
>
>Firstly, to have the temerity as to expect that WE are going to market this
>for them is sad.  But it appears to me that that is the only thing they ARE
>doing (at least out here) -- that is what I'm calling stupid.  Commodore has
>always been using my free marketing, the idea being that if we sell more 
>machines, they provide us with better computers.  I've been waiting for
>better graphics chips for a LOOONG time -- heck even the U Lowell board would
>be better than nothing.  It seemed to be working at the '89 Fall DevCon, so
>two years later it's, where?  How long will I wait to get a CD-ROM/CDTV
>compatible player for my machine?

	It sounds like you are saying that Commodore has a lot of
problems, so this specific thing is stupid. Like I said, if user
group members are willing to be cheap marketers for them, then by
all means let them take advantage of it. That's what us student
reps are. 8-)
>
>
>>	Besides, you got the deal wrong. The individual group
>>members, if they "sell" a lot, can get a commission of a CDTV.
>
>Completely possible.  I was doing my best to quote Leo, but I don't
>quite have perfect recall. :)
>
>I buy quality stuff, that's why I bought a Yamaha kX88 instead of a toy
>synth., that's why I have a Nec 4D instead of a 1930, and that's why I
>bought an A3000 and not a clone.  That Commodore could care less about
>their marketing quality burns.  That their OS (in particular their user 
>interface) is second rate doesn't really bug me -- I write user interfaces
>for kicks.  But to, by extension, say that the problem doesn't exist
>WOULD BE stupid.

	It seems that their British and German marketing efforts
are a bit stronger than the American effort. They seem to be
trying to hold on to the markets they have, rather than spend a
lot of money breaking into a market they may never get.
	-- Ethan

FF buckets of bits on the bus,	FF buckets of bits.
Take one down,			Pass it to ground,
FE buckets of bits on the bus.

