Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!data.nas.nasa.gov!news
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Subject: Re: Gurus
References: <1991May22.193018.17384@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Fri, 31 May 91 19:52:25 GMT
Approved: prabhu@amelia.nas.nasa.gov
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Sender: news@nas.nasa.gov
Message-ID: <1991May31.195225.15107@nas.nasa.gov>
Lines: 45

In article <1991May22.193018.17384@nas.nasa.gov>, simmonds@demon.siemens.com (Tom Simmonds) writes:
> I know that most of the religious traditions from the East emphasize the
> importance of an enlightened teacher.  Even Zen has a tradition of the
> "mind seal", which is supposedly passed personally from master to student.
> Maybe I'm too cynical, but I've never been able to believe in that.
> 

it's possible that this truth is not accessible to cranial belief but only
to gut belief, something you understand when it touches you, since it's
not part of normal reality in our society.

> First of all, it seems to me that, if there is some Truth or Reality to be
> seen, I should be able to see it for myself.  

whoa... we *should* see a lot that we normally don't see. in fact, maybe
even the most enlightened people don't see anymore than 0.00001% of 
Truth or Reality. perhaps it's that vast. face it, there are Truths and Reality
we just never trip over in our normal day-to-day lives.

> I don't believe that any person
> is superior to others in that respect.  It there is a Reality, it's there
> for all to see.  If you want to see it, you will; and nobody can see it *for*
> you. 

maybe they can point it out to you from amidst the clutter of details and
words and thoughts in our lives.

> It's not necessary to sit on a mountain somewhere.  The sun shines just as
> brightly here as it does in Tibet.  There's no more reality in an ashram or
> a zendo than there is in your own living-room.  You don't need any magic
> words, secret rituals, mystical zaps, "mind seals", or other forms of
> snake-oil.  You already have all the reality you need, right here and now.
> Just sit back and let it go.
> 
> "If you meet the Buddha, kill him."  (from Zen Flesh, Zen Bones)
> "There aint no guru who can see through your eyes."  (John Lennon)

all very nice and rational. but if they day ever comes when you meet
such a person, all these well-thought-out words and reasons might 
drip away like ice cream melting off your stick. don't step in it.

  ando.



