Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
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From: greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.)
Subject: Re: MD-BASIC (was:Re: Apple ][ BBS Software)
Message-ID: <1991Jun3.063330.25629@unlinfo.unl.edu>
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Organization: GBBS/ACOS Sysop Support
References: <1991Jun2.214618.13193@clark.edu>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1991 06:33:30 GMT
Lines: 103

geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com (Chris Moylan) writes:

>It is NOT based on AppleSoft Basic entirely.  It has AmperWorks and
>ModemWorks to give it commands AppleSoft could NEVER have otherwise.

Ampersand routines.  Just what we need, remembering all these extra things
to use if we want to code it directly in AppleSoft.  Nice that similar
commands are nice and straightforward in ACOS.

>As
>for ACOS, what the HELL is it?

ACOS is the language which GBBS "Pro" runs in.  It is a BASIC.

>If I bought a BBS, I'd buy one based on a
>language I already know.

It doesn't take long to learn ACOS.  It is a BASIC, and history shows that
it can be learned rather quickly.

>I also think the GBBS compiler is no better than
>MD-BASIC which compiles BASIC w/ ModemWorks and AmperWorks files into
>a usable application.

The GBBS compiler (ACOS -- oh, might as well define that acronym:
All-purpose Communications Operating System) doesn't require the addition
of things like ModemWorks and AmperWorks, since everything is already
built into the language.

>ProLine is based on a UNIX type interface, which
>GBBS has not,

Whoever told you UNIX was the best interface ever is a damned liar.

>in fact, GBBS has not a lot, from what I've seen.  It's
>message bases are hard to use, it has NO user friendliness, and it is NOT
>AT ALL faster than ProLine on a similar system.

Then your comparison was on a poor system.  I have seen poor GBBS systems,
usually due to sysop neglect.  I find the message bases the best line-mode
interface I have yet encountered.  I'd place it above rn.  I'd say nn was
better, if I wasn't restricting myself to discussion of line-mode
presentation.  As to speed, you probably were comparing a //e GBBS system
to a IIgs ProLine system, or at least an accellerated version of ProLine.
AppleSloth got that name for a reason.

Also make sure you weren't comparing a 2400 bps connection to a local mode
access.  (Yes, there are people who will do this.)

>The reason I said it has
>no user friendliness is because when I called it, I logged in new and when
>I finally made it to a Main Menu of some kind, I had to keep pressing '?'
>to get the menu again!

You just named a thing that I despise other systems for:  printing
full-screen menus at every opportunity, including while trying to read
messages.  True, they have a mode to prevent them from appearing unless
asked for, but then they terse everything down.  I feel that when a user
wants a menu they will ASK for it, not have it foisted on them every time.
One user captures important menus in his copy buffer, and references it
only when needed, and not wasting valuable online time having it sent.

>It was SO hard to use, and the message bases are
>not so great also.  

Sounds like you let your own IBM system expectations get in the way.
Disgusted you had to hit return occasionally to do an option?  Hotkeys
are another hatred of mine, only tolerated while in reading mode.  One
burst of line noise and you might as well activated the randomizer on your
TARDIS.  The fact that you rate the message bases slightly higher probably
reflects this.  Hotkeys prevent inclusion of parameters, an ability I use
often.

>BTW - I know a few BBS sysops who have dropped GBBS for ProLine, don't
>underestimate AppleSoft basic's flexbility. Have you ever written a ProLine
>application?  I have.

AppleSoft BASIC's inflexibility is aptly demonstrated by the need to use
& routines.

>Chris Moylan                    | ProLine: geniusman@pro-hindugods 
>CoSysop: Hindu Love Gods BBS    | Internet: geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com 
>313/644-0481                    | UUCP: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman
>300-9600 bps, v.32/v.42/v.42bis | ARPA: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman@nosc.mil

And BASIC is an acronym.  Please treat it as such.  It belongs in all
CAPS.

Oh, how many of these ProLine systems here charge a fee for the use of the
system?  There exist time=money code in the system.

Reminds me of some dialog from a movie:

"Time is money."
"I thought you said opium was money."
"Money is money!"
"Then what was time, again?"

--
///   ____   \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are
| |/ /    \ \| |       several--one of the many major problems with governing
 \\_|\____/|_//            people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the
greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu    point, who gets people to let them do it to them."
