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From: melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger)
Subject: Re: An interesting idea...
In-Reply-To: peter@sugar.hackercorp.com's message of 9 May 91 17:40:02 GMT
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	<babG3=h#1@cs.psu.edu> <1991May9.174002.2765@sugar.hackercorp.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 91 20:03:59 GMT
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In article <1991May9.174002.2765@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

   Anything over 2K is out of the PC market, really. The workstation market
   bottoms out right where the NeXT lives... the $5K mark.

Have you priced a MacIIsi or MacIIci lately.  Even IBM's and Compaqs
machines are higher than that.  Although, they just cut their prices
big time, so it's time to reevaluate the situation again.
 
   The freeware/shareware market is not going to sell boxes. Shrink-wrapped
   applications are. And when the beancounters see an app for $1000 on the NeXT,
   and the corresponding app for $400 on Windows, that's going to hurt NeXT.

WP, TopDraw, Create, Diagram, DataPhile... I mentioned an entire list
of $400-$500 applications in a previous posting.  You are paying $1000
for the traditional workstation applications.  These applications
would cost $100 on a Mac or PC.  How much does Frame or Oracle cost on
a Mac?

   > much do WP, Improv, Wingz, Diagram, Illustrator, DataPhile, TopDraw,
   > Create, WriteNow(free, trick question) each cost?

   4-500 dollars on up. Instead of 1-200 dollars for PC software.

What do Lotus 123, WP, or WFW cost on a PC?

   Yes, we're running Oracle on our 386/16 UNIX boxes at work. You can keep it.

Then buy Ingres.

   > But it isn't equivalent and it doesn't even come close.  Run Windows
   > 3.0 on a 386SX then show people the NeXT.

   I've done the equivalent. We're running a trade show demo that runs Windows
   next to a Sparcstation-2 running Open Look. That's an even hotter box than
   the NeXT, so the Sparc should blow them away. The beancounters (remember, Jobs
   is trying to sell to business) can't tell the difference even when you explain
   it to them.

The SSII is a $14,000 machine(I told you this in comp.arch).  And
OpenLook is not as refined as NeXTStep.  I'm about to back to twm.

   > Run Word for Windows on a 386SX and show them a Mac Classic :-).

   "Where's the color?" It's true! They "need" color for their word processors.

Yes, color does make a difference.  Forgot about that.  Why do they
need color if they have a bitmap display?

   (a) Are they going to be more productive, or just do more Macdinking?
   (b) Given the price differential, they're not going to give it a chance.

How much does it cost to dink on a MacIIsi or MacIIci?

   Fine. And here they're running head to head with Apple (who has just cut
   their price dramatically). When there are people buying Macs expressly for
   desktop video, when the difference between the Amiga and the Mac is bigger
   tahn the difference between the NeXT and the mac in DTP, I can't see NeXT
   unseating Apple here. Especially with no entry level machine.

You're right.  NeXT will need to release a lower priced machine in the
future to really penetrate the market.  They do know this(I asked).
For know they are only planning to ship 40k-45K machines this year.
They're just trying to become established and to attract some good
software developers.

   Just as well as on DX. Windows apps run in 286 mode, so the extra 2 bytes
   per data fetch doesn't buy you anything.

How about when OS/2 or the 32 version of Windows is released.  Should
they buy new hardware?  

   > You seem to think that they are sufficient for most business needs.

   I'll let you in on a secret. A PC/XT is sufficient for most business
   needs.

Try running Deluxe Paint on a PC/XT :-).  Or Toolbook, WFW...

   Really. A 386 is massive overkill.

Buying anything less is plain stupid.

-Mike
