Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!cica!travis!greg
From: greg@travis.cica.indiana.edu (Gregory TRAVIS)
Subject: Re: NeXT doesn't support 030 machinesn
Message-ID: <greg.673580831@travis>
Sender: news@cica.indiana.edu (News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: travis.cica.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
References: <m72G7+s&1@cs.psu.edu> <11876@uwm.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date:  7 May 91 01:47:11 GMT

In <11876@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:

>From article <m72G7+s&1@cs.psu.edu>, by melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger):
>> NeXT Step 2.0 runs on the 030 machines.  NeXT didn't make some
>> optimizations to the OS because they wanted to make sure that it ran
>> on the 030 machines.

This doesn't sound true.  DEC has certainly managed to produce operating
systems that run on an incredibly wide family of processors.  I think
NeXT has the expertise to do the same.  I suspect the O/S senses the type
of processor and uses the appropriate optimizations.

>> If you wait a year, just get the 88K upgrade
>> instead.

>Okay, I'll run this by you again, because I know diddley about the
>88k.  UNLESS IT IS BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE WITH THE 680X0 LINE, THERE
>WON'T BE AN AMIGA UPGRADE TO IT.  Commodore has no need to leave
>people in the dust.  And if suddenly an Amiga doesn't run Amiga
>software anymore, is it still an Amiga???  (rhetorical, don't answer)

You're making it sound as if Commodore has a choice.  I daresay there is
a lot more NeXT (and UNIX in general) software that's processor independent
than there is Amiga software.  Many Amiga packages loudly tout the
fact that they're 100% assembly (NewTek's paint, for one).  Also,
much of Exec itself is coded in assembly.  It's going to be a lot
more painful to move the average Amiga program from an Amiga 680x0 to
and Amiga 88K (or whatever) than it will be for the same UNIX program.
The emphasis is different between the two systems.  One is constrained
in both speed and memory while the other is open-ended in both
respects.  Which is why you get a totally non-portable implementation
like Intuition / Exec on one hand and an easily portable implementation
like (NeXTStep/X) / (Mach/UNIX) on the other.  To be fair, Exec is
probably fairly portable.  But its extremely lean character, often
touted as an asset, is a liability with larger systems.  An embarrasment of
riches needs to be policed effectively and Exec just doesn't have the
authority.  At least not for general-purpose computing systems.

Let's look at what's happening wrt. Sun's abandonment of the 680x0 line
for the SPARC-based systems.  Not too much complaining from the
customer base 'cause most applications just need to be recompiled.
> 

>> BTW, I think we're forgetting that the NeXT 040 upgrade is $1500 for
>> non-University owners.

About what one would pay for a decent '030 board for the Amiga a year ago.
Even less.  And those board don't come with built-in SCSI/Ethernet/Serial
ports/DSP.

--
Gregory R. Travis                Indiana University, Bloomington IN 47405
greg@cica.indiana.edu  		 Center for Innovative Computer Applications
Not an offical pinko of CICA or Indiana University
