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From: rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell)
Subject: Re: Amiga OS *IS* state of the art, but the NeXT is better
Message-ID: <1991Apr3.051014.5474@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>
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References: <gi1Gxwqf1@cs.psu.edu> <1991Apr3.033827.1716@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <.$2G0ysf1@cs.psu.edu>
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 91 05:10:14 GMT
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In article <.$2G0ysf1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes:
>
>In article <1991Apr3.033827.1716@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes:
>
>      When did the Amiga lose? Amiga's are selling better now than they have
>   ever done before. Let's not forget that the Commodore 64 was also branded
>   a game machine yet it sold 10 million machines world wide and is still
>   selling. I predict NeXT's aren't going to achieve much of a market
>   penetration.  There are low-end Amigas (500), low end Macs(Classic), lo end
>   IBM's (pc/xt), but there is no low-end NeXT. The cheapest model  is over
>   $3000 and that's just the educational price.
>
>I used to own a Commodore 64 and 128 so I know all about them.  The
>Amiga lost, in my opinion, because is could have done so much better.
>They aren't accepted in Fortune 500 companies, you don't find too many
>campus computer labs full of Amigas, and major developers still don't
>write software for them.  We have one where I work(A2500), but the
>people who I work with would rather play with Toolbook -- Damn that
>thing is slow.  That's how much respect it gets.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Note this.
>    Regardless of that fact, the Amiga continues to sell without any marketing.
>   Just think how good it would sell with marketing. The Commodore 64 sold
>   10 million with hardly any marketing. I guess that says alot about
>   Commodore's technical excellence and price.
>
>Commodore sold 10 million 64's because they sold them for $200 a
>piece.  When an entire Amiga system goes for $500, they will take off
>too(IMHO).  Get WP and Lotus on the machine, and I think a lot of
>people will them.  Then again, you need a flicker fixer.  People might
>go for VGA machines instead.
>
>     You need to wake up to the fact that the general populace isn't going
>   to purchase a NeXT anymore than they'd purchase a Sun or Vax. Sure, it's
>   cool to develop on the NeXT (objective-c, yuck), but you can't sell
>   a machine to developers only, developers need consumers to buy what
>   developers develop. An Amiga or Mac w/040 would kill NeXT in speed
>   considering the overhead of NeXTStep, Display Postscript, and Unix
>   compared to that of AmigaDOS or Finder.
>
>Most people aren't interested in speed, they want functionality.  It's
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Note this.
>what you do with the speed that matters.  NeXT gives the consumer
>Display Postscript, voice mail, and built in fax capabilities.
How can you send fax without a modem or ethernet? Sure NeXT has
an ethernet port, buthow many people can afford an Internet connection?
Voice-Mail from one NeXT to Another in the same computer lab is about
as useful as making a telephone call from your bedroom to your basement.

>The Amiga gives you the best games in the business.
>
>     And about Interface builder. The NeXT isn't the only machine that has
>   interface building programs.They are availible on the Ibm, Mac, and Amiga
>   as well.
>
>And Motif.  There is a free IB with Interviews for generic X Windows,
>but it is only an alpha version.  So, spend a few hundred bucks and
>buy the one for your machine.  Do you have your calculator out?
 PowerWindows on the Amiga costs about $30. MenuC costs nothing.
Amiga interface builders generate in LOTS of languages not just Obj-C.
PowerWindows generates Forth, Basic, Modula, Assembler, C, and other
languages.

>Amiga 3000 + 040 board + C++ + IB + Mathematica + DSP + 92 dpi display =
 $2600      + $800      +Free +Free/$30+Maple ?+Don't need DSP+A2024($499)=
$3800 bucks for a Machine that's muchmore usuable than a NeXT.
I'll take G++ over objective C anyday.

>Should we throw in ethernet?  That costs an extra $500 on a Mac.  And
>why the hell is Commodore still using 800K drives in the Amiga?
 Commodore puts 1.76mb drives in new Amiga's now.

>   Considering how long the NeXT has been around, and how many units it has
>   sold, i'd say it's more of a loser than Commodore.
>
>I think NeXT released their first machines in Sept. 88.  Their latest
>machines shipped in December.  Your right, the old machines didn't
>sell well because they were a bit slow, but they have sold about
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I thought you speed wasn't important? First you say your Amiga2500 was
slow (an 030 running AmigaDOS slow? Doubtful), then you say speed
isn't important, now your saying NeXT machines (030) didn't sell
because they were slow? Which is it?

>20,000 new machines so far.  NeXT hasn't won yet, but they are poised
>to make their mark.

 How? NeXT's in business/home use? Not bloody likely. You say
Amiga's are game machines? Oh well, this fact alone guarantees that
C= will be around alot longer than NeXT. the C64 market hasn't even
died down yet. Commodore sold a few hundred thousand C64's last year
which is more than the total number of NeXT's world wide.
The C64 may have been a game machine, but a large number of people
still used it to do work. I used it to do all my word processing.
Many people I know ran BBSs on them, programmed, published, and played
games. I can still run more software on my C64 than you could ever hope to
run on your NeXT.

NeXT isn't going anywhere. There will be 040's out for Amigas and Macs
this year.

>-Mike
>


--
/~\_______________________________________________________________________/~\
|n|   rjc@albert.ai.mit.edu   Amiga, the computer for the creative mind.  |n|
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