Newsgroups: news.software.b
Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!tale
From: tale@rpi.edu (David C Lawrence)
Subject: Re: sys file entries for CNEWS
Message-ID: <AD}=J-%@rpi.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: cs.rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Computer Science, Troy NY
References: <1991Mar18.170511.6535@st_nik!swindon.ingr.com>
	<1991Mar19.224950.4653@zoo.toronto.edu> <449@skyking.UUCP>
	<1991Mar23.193554.25944@looking.on.ca>
Date: 23 Mar 91 21:16:59 GMT
Lines: 70

In <1991Mar23.193554.25944@looking.on.ca> brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton):

   Yes, "all" is convenient, if you are feeding a true sub-leaf that is in
   every single domain you are in.   But the convenience has caused sys files
   to be sloppily written everywhere.

Au contraire, mon frere!  (Whatever.  My second language is German, not
French.)  I do not use "all" simply because it is convenient, and I am
offended at the implication that I am a sloppy news administrator.  I am
proud to be what I believe is a better than average news administrator,
and I'll thank you not to second guess why my sys file is configured the
way it is.

   I strongly suggest that C news remove "all" as a valid distribution
   field.  Force the people with the sloppy files to fix them if they
   upgrade.  It will never become perfect again, due to those who don't
   upgrade, but it's a start.

I then will personally hack it right back into the locally hacked
relaynews I run.

Why do I use all,!local,!rpi?  Because Distribution: in every current
news system I have seen is broken.  The concept is nice, but the
implementation is very weak.  It is a philosophical problem with news.
I have seen many articles come through news with Distribution:s like
"everyone", "all", "net", &c.  Distributions which clearly were intended
to propagate the article widely but which the policy you suggest would
prevent from happening.  On the other hand, I see roughly the same
percentage, perhaps even a little less, of articles in mainstream
hierarchies which really should have been limited to the geographical
distribution which was intended.

Sometimes "the right thing" is quite tricky to see.  As an example, what
about when someone announces a singles event in soc.singles with a
Distribution: of ba?  I currently get ba here in New York because we
have displaced Californians and others who appreciate the hierarchy.
Asking us to come to a new singles volleyball event in San Jose on
Saturday is pretty dumb; the article probably shouldn't appear here for
logistical reasons.  The same is not true of most of the traffic in most
of the regionals I have read, which is why it is not uncommon for a
regional to leave its physical vicinity.  The same could also be said of
a great many (attempted) limited distribution articles in major
hierarchies.

I prefer in these cases, and the cases of bogus Distributions like
mentioned above, for the article to be propagated more widely than
intended rather than to have it silently fail to get to the audience
which was expected to receive it.  I know of several good admins who
share this opinion.  My "sloppy sys file" comes from a very sloppy
attempt at general network news distribution control in widely spread
hierarchies.  It has been considered and reconsidered many times by me
and I do not as yet have a compelling reason to change how I forward
news.

Often we as administrators can see to what location the article should
reasonably go, but it is a grey area.  Now how do we code it, and how do
we instruct the users about the best way to target the distribution?
What?  They shouldn't have to worry about some complex system, and the
simpleness of Distribution: should be fine?  Then how come so many of
them got it wrong before C News even showed up widely?  C News is not
the major illness here.

   ... the fake-distributions of "comp", "rec" etc. which shouldn't
   exist but some twizots use.

They exist according to RFC 1036.  Supplement the RFC if this is truly a
wrong thing.  I would agree that it is, but the Distribution: vs
hierarchy scheme has traditionally been very closely related.  "Good luck."
--
    (setq mail '("tale@rpi.edu" "uupsi!rpi!tale" "tale@rpitsmts.bitnet"))
