Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Path: utzoo!lsuc!jimomura
From: jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura)
Subject: Re: Sozobon Sprites
Organization: Consultant, Toronto
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 90 05:02:29 GMT
Message-ID: <1990Dec27.050229.5360@lsuc.on.ca>
References: <1990Dec17.211812.21144@lsuc.on.ca> <1990Dec21.181322.11004@ecst.csuchico.edu>

In article <1990Dec21.181322.11004@ecst.csuchico.edu> ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) writes:
>jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes:
>
>- I've seen similar menus in Amiga programs.  The menu bar is hidden
>- until you click and then it appears at the top of the screen and 
>- menus drop down covering only part of the "work" area leaving the 
>- rest visible.  This is particularly good for graphic programs of an
>- artistic nature because, unlike Degas, it leaves as much of the 
>- "work" on-screen at all possible times.
>
>I kinda like the way Degas does things, right button to toggle 
>between drawing area and commands.  Any way you slice it, the Degas 
>method or the hidden menus you described above, you still gotta hit 
>something.
>
>- If you're not an "artist" you may not realize why this is important
>- at first, but if you've ever done extensive art it becomes a fairly
>- obvious matter.
>
>Well, I don't [want to :^) ] consider myself an "artist," but I am 

     Yeah.  I can tell you're not an artist.  No insult intended
but no *real* artist -- ie person who is seriously trying to create
a work of art, would agree with you unless they were strangely
perverse.  It is the drive inside the individual to create that work
that *forces* an artist to draw or do whatever s/he does.  If you
don't have it, it's not likely you'll ever become an artist.  I'm
thinking in particular of some of my freinds in that regard more
than me, though in some ways I'm "driven" too, though in different
directions.  That's not to say that it's impossible to create a great
picture with Degas, for an artist you're working against the program
rather than with it.  It's like this:  You're standing in front of
your canvas with your "assistant" sitting beside you.  Every time
you want to change colours on your brush or think about picking up
a different brush, he throws a blanket over your picture. . . .

     Then again there was the disappearing cursors.  That was another
"classic feature" of Degas.  Degas was a "passable" program at a
time when the only other program on the market was Neochrome.  I
hated Neochrome even worse, though thankfully, it's been so long
since I used it that I've actually forgotten exactly what it was
I didn't like about it.  Hey Neato!!!  A bad memory has its compensations! :-)

     Anyway, CyberPaint is the best program I've tried on the
ST so far in this regard.  Deluxe Paint may be better, but I
haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

>I've never understood the "Amiga-method" of calling up the drop-down 
>menus.  Why should I have to hold down the right button?  It's an

     With CyberPaint you don't "hold down the right button."  You
just click it to bring the menu bar up and click again to get rid of
it.  This is the best user interface for artwork that I've seen
so far -- as I've said before.  In fact, it's so good that I
obtained Jim Kent's permission to copy the whole CyberPaint user
interface for a paint program on another computer.  That's an
interesting story.  I actually finished that program and it works.
Jim Kent has a copy of it.  Unfortunately, the computer I wrote it
for was marginally popular and the negotiations for the distribution
of the program died.  9 months of work went down the drain.  Life'ls
like that. . . .

>awkward and unusual way, IMHO, of calling the menus.

     On the one hand you say you've used lots of paint programs.
Yet you obviously don't know how CyberPaint works.  And with
that in mind you certainly feel yourself qualified to extoll
Degas?  Come on now, think a bit before you post!



-- 
Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880
lsuc!jimomura
Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
