Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Path: utzoo!utstat!philip
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Investing in a IIgs
Message-ID: <1990Sep11.164538.27743@utstat.uucp>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 90 16:45:38 GMT
References: <90Sep10.200821edt.57352@ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca> <1990Sep11.083835.16994@utstat.uucp> <1990Sep11.123726.11265@uokmax.uucp>
Organization: Statistics, U. of Toronto

In article <1990Sep11.123726.11265@uokmax.uucp> cbdougla@uokmax.uucp (Collin Broad Douglas) writes:
[stuff related to my support of the GS and related Amiga musings]

>   That game machine you speak of is easily upgradeable to 1 meg and in
>   that state is at least as powerful as a Mac SE.

What does 1 meg have to do with anything? Both the SE and the Amiga500
have 68000 cpu's. So what? The point is that the Amiga does not have a
software base to compare with the SE. As it stands it does not have a 
good graphics mode, and is prone to flickering. Sure 2.0 will fix that
but those are futures for the A500. Who knows what the future brings
for the Mac/GS? Having a 68000 is meaningless unless you have software.

>   MY major gripe is that Apple is just charging too much for the GS.  They
>   have to take into account what they are up against.  I mean the Amiga.

The GS and Amiga markets are different. I agree that the GS has been 
over-priced to the public( but reasonably priced to education) and this will
probably be addressed. The Amiga is not a competitor for the GS. It has no
presence in education, and the A500 is mainly a game computer...

>   You can get a 25Mhz Amiga 3000 (based on a 68030) for about $4000.   That
>   includes the cpu, a monitor and a 50 meg HD.

So what? You can get a MacIIci for not much more and the ci has a much better
software base. The GS is not competing against the A3000, and it is unfair to
compare what you paid for in the past for your GS with current prices. Try
looking up the price of the A1000 when it first came out. I assume the GS will
have its price reviewed in the near future. In any case, the A3000 is not the
competition. IBM/Tandy is.

>   $4000 is about as much as I've invested in my GS and that system would
>   include a hard drive (mine doesn't).

As I've noted computer prices are dropping. What you may have paid 2 years ago
is irrelevant to today's prices.

>   also, even the lowly amiga 500 runs a pre-emptive multitasking OS, has
>   great graphics and good sound (not as good as the GS though of course).

The A500 does not have "great graphics". As far as the Amiga's multitasking
goes, please note that tasks are not hardware protected from each other. That
makes preemptive multitasking next to useless. Try running a simulation only
to have it crashed by some other task.

>   If Apple would just LOWER the prices then they would sell more machines
>   but it's just not realistic to expect people to pay the price of a GS.
>   The unit alone costs like $800 mail order.  That includes the cpu,
>   a keyboard, a mouse and 1 meg RAM.

I agree that the GS should be improved and have its price reviewed. The prices
you are quoting are not those given to education which is the main target
audience of the GS. In any case it all depends what you want in a computer. We
pay around $3000 for a 12.5 mips Sparc. Does that mean that noone should buy
anything but Sun workstations?(By the way, that price includes UNIX).

>   Anyway, I REALLY am glad I got my GS.  When I got it, the only other
>   things I had to choose from were the Atari 520 ST and the Amiga 1000
>   (buggy...buggy).  But, if faced with the same decision in this market,
>   I really don't think I would do it again.

Well I got my GS 10 months ago. I have Macs and a GS. They go well together.
Faced with the same decision I would still get a GS. It's a real pleasure
to use and the user base is knowlegeable, friendly and Apple has been good
to me through my Macs, GS, LW's etc...I see no reason to switch to another
vendor.

Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
[my opinions]
