Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!radio.astro.utoronto.ca!radio.astro!brian
From: brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning)
Subject: Re: Censorship
In-Reply-To: xanthian@saturn.ADS.COM's message of 25 Jan 90 07:49:58 GMT
Message-ID: <BRIAN.90Jan25174921@radio.astro.utoronto.ca>
Sender: brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning)
Organization: Radio Astronomy, University of Toronto
References: <Jan.22.16.16.01.1990.5382@richelieu.rutgers.edu>
	<1665@scorn.sco.COM> <10617@saturn.ADS.COM>
Date: 25 Jan 90 17:49:21


kpd> =Well, if he's the news administrator of the machine, it's his right.
kpd> =Take it up with him.
kpd> =
kpd> I did.  The response received confirmed the impression previously
kpd> aroused by his actions that here we have a jerk of the first water,
kpd> in the fine tradition of bookburners and radio broadcast jammers
kpd> everywhere.

I will admit that I was rather abrupt with this poster, for that I
apologize. Other than pointing out that flames are rarely one sided I
will leave the rest of this personal squabbling aside.

Did I do anything wrong? I don't think so for the following reasons.

o rmgroup on radio.astro.utoronto.ca

The usenet "compact" explicitly allows any given machine to carry any
groups or subset of groups desired. 

o what about a.s.b readers on radio?

Well, first off it turns out I was the only reader of a.s.b on radio.
In any event, the owners of a machine and their agents can choose
policy for their system. For instance I expire alt/soc/talk/rec faster
than comp/sci. This is because as a matter of policy we consider the
latter groups more important than the former. The arpanet isn't
supposed to carry commercial traffic. Catholic libraries likely don't
buy many abortion rights books. If you are rude and obnoxious in my
house I will ask you to leave, on the street I will ignore you.

In other words, you have no right of free speech in my property (this
has certain caveats, this situation isn't one of them).

o readers on other machines?

I have no control over other machines (our remaining downstream feed
has not wanted alt fed for a long time). What I did was to inform, via
a province wide newsgroup, that a very offensive (my opinion) article
was in a.s.b, and they might want to review the situation for
themselves. I don't really care how others have dealt with the matter,
however I (rightly) suspected that others would like to know.


o but this is censorship

Yes it is. But it isn't a free speech issue. If I cancel my own
subscription to an offensive magazine that's one thing. If the
government shuts the magazine down that is something else. If my only
power is to convince, not coerce, than this is usually called argument
or reasoning.

It is censorship in the same trivial sense that it's censorship when Brad
Templeton rejects someone's joke for rec.humor.funny.

o Book Burner!

I can burn my own books. If I come after your books then you have a
point.  If someone mails you some kiddie porn you're not required to
keep it next to your copy of the U.S. constitution you know.

Summary: You do what you want on your machine, I'll do what I want on mine.

Brian
--
	 Brian Glendenning - Radio astronomy, University of Toronto
brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca  utai!radio.astro!brian  glendenn@utorphys.bitnet
